4bangerjp.com
General Forums => The Mess Hall => Topic started by: tttppp54 on March 09, 2006, 09:36:05 AM
-
I have a '97 2.5l tj. I have been doing some research and I was wondering if anyone knew if the 2.4l turbo engine from the pt cruiser is the same type engine as the 2.4l used in the newer wrangler? If so, could that engine be used as a direct replacement as the 2.5l in my tj? If not would i have to change motor mounts or anything like that?
-
The engine in your TJ is a 2.4L? I've heard they are the same engine and it will work. Someone chime in if I'm wrong.
-
The engine in your TJ is a 2.4L? I've heard they are the same engine and it will work. Someone chime in if I'm wrong.
Hmm if it is, I would think that it would have been done by now. It would be a simple swap.
Hopefully someone has seen this before and can speak to it.
-
The 2.4L used in the SRT-4 and the PT Cruiser GT is similar to the one used in the later 2.4L TJ's sans Turbo. Spence and I have talked about it a lot when it first came out.
Problem is if you have a 2.5L, you need to replace a lot more stuff. Then you've also got to figure out what to use for a transmission. (I'd go Auto for simplicity.) The 2.4L's used the NV1500 5-speed. The Auto was a 5-speed but I forget what model off hand. Do a search.
-
So it would not be as simple as dropping it in place of my 2.5l w/ using a new ecu. It wouldn't bolt up with the ax-5?
-
So it would not be as simple as dropping it in place of my 2.5l w/ using a new ecu. It wouldn't bolt up with the ax-5?
No it's not that easy.
-
Sorry, but i am not that educated on this subject but what sort of things would be envolved with this type swap?
-
You would need.. motor mounts, ecm, wiring, transmission, transfer case (input gear is different) and either driveshaft or sye since the transmission won't be the same length. You would also either need to do some creative wire splicing, or just get the entire instrument cluster from a newer jeep as well. Plenty of work! :lol:
-
Wow, it sounds like the same amount of work need for a v8 swap. I thought maybe it would be cheaper and easier considerng it was a 4cyl. from chrysler. Wishful thinking I guess.
-
The problem is that it's not the same 4 cylinder as you already have.
2.5L vs. 2.4L
Honestly, I think the easiest way to Centrifugal Supercharge or Turbocharge the 2.5L. The biggest advantage is that you'll have more lower end torque. Keeping boost ay 7psi or lower and it should give you a nice boost without sacraficing engine life.
You'll still might want to upgrade the transmission and rear axle though.
-
what is a good super charger or turbo charger kit. I am having trouble finding one for my 2.5l. All i have found is the avenger kit. Are there any that yall recommend?
-
what is a good super charger or turbo charger kit. I am having trouble finding one for my 2.5l. All i have found is the avenger kit. Are there any that yall recommend?
No one makes a turbo kit. Only Avenger makes a supercharger kit. You're options are to go with Avenger or make your own. by piecing one together from misc. parts.
-
piecing together a turbo set-up is rather cheap/easy... You can use many turbo's that came on other cars stock (t3 or a 16g would probably do nicely). I highly recommend trying to run megasquirt or some other form of engine management. I plan to put a small turbo on my jeep hopfully this fall. The hardest part is going to be finding/having someone make you a turbo manifold... If you can weld there are a lot of people you can get flanges from. Or you could always go with a eaton m62 and fabricate it to bolt up where the a/c compressor normally goes. The ones off the mercedez slk230??? have clutch type switches to turn them on/off.
-
Thanks for the good info. I think if i tried to peice something together i would be in way over my head. Is there a web page that shows a step-by-step instuction for the jeep application.
-
I highly doubt there is any good if any write ups on putting a turbo on a 2.5L jeep. I'm only doing it because I owned an import before just buying my little wrangler and already know what i'm going to need to do (and have a apexi BOV and a little 14b turbo sitting in my garage collecting dust). If you just want some good turbo info for 4 bangers you can check out DSM,honda,wrx, nissan and srt4 forums (i'm sure there is webpages that are a lot more basic, but i used to roam most of those forums and thats where i read/learned a lot). If you have the time to read, and want to learn it's very easy to learn all the basics and start piecing stuff together.
-
I highly doubt there is any good if any write ups on putting a turbo on a 2.5L jeep. I'm only doing it because I owned an import before just buying my little wrangler and already know what i'm going to need to do (and have a apexi BOV and a little 14b turbo sitting in my garage collecting dust). If you just want some good turbo info for 4 bangers you can check out DSM,honda,wrx, nissan and srt4 forums (i'm sure there is webpages that are a lot more basic, but i used to roam most of those forums and thats where i read/learned a lot). If you have the time to read, and want to learn it's very easy to learn all the basics and start piecing stuff together.
There is one site but the guy wants to make money by having you purchase his manual. Honestly, I agree with you, anyone with experiance with imports could do a DIY. The only setup's I've seen had a modified down pipe and put the turbo on the passenger side.
I'd love to see a decent writeup for people to use a a guide. I'd consider doing one but don't have the tools to do a lot of fabricating anymore.
-
^ yea i've noticed thats what people do on the 4.2 and 4.0 motors. It would decrease spool time running a set-up like that, but it would help make more power higher up. I havn't decided which way i'm going to go. When the time comes and I do start fabricating a little set-up, I can probably take some pictures along the way and maybe do a write up for this forum :) But as i said, i don't plan to do this for awhile.
-
Have any thoughts on a centrigugal S/C? I've been throwing around that idea. I need more torque higher up around 2800rpm which should be fine from what I've read.
-
I really wouldn't waste my time with one of those. If you want torque in the 2800rpm+ i would run a turbo. Those centrifugal superchargers are really peaky, a turbo will put out the same peak numbers, if not more, but put out more midrange. If i wanted torque really low i would run a roots or a twin screw supercharger, but i can't say i would every use a centrifugal type supercharger.
-
Thing is I don't really need must on the low to mid range.
Problem with using a screw, or roots, is that they are expensive and not very DIY unless you buy a kit.
I've been thinking about going with a certrifugal for a few reasons though. Simple to remove and install is probably the biggest advantage. Still might consider a turbo setup though. (I would need to break it down every other year for Emission testing.) I figure fuel would be addressed similary between the two.
-
^ a roots or a turbo for our motors would actually be pretty cheap, considering you can just use stock parts from other cars (one great thing about having a 4 banger). If all you want is top end, you can just use a larger turbo. I live in florida, so we have no emissions, but can you run an engine mangement system as long as it passes all of the tests? or does it have to use the stock ecu? I'm not a big fan of using an FMU.
-
^ a roots or a turbo for our motors would actually be pretty cheap, considering you can just use stock parts from other cars (one great thing about having a 4 banger). If all you want is top end, you can just use a larger turbo. I live in florida, so we have no emissions, but can you run an engine mangement system as long as it passes all of the tests? or does it have to use the stock ecu? I'm not a big fan of using an FMU.
There is no OEM roots/screw application that would work. For a turbo, everything would have to be DIY unless you happen to own a 2.4L which is what this thread is about. The only aftermarket screw type is Avenger which uses an Auto Rotor. (roots and screw-type aren't the same.) The Avenger uses a water to ait intercooler as an adapter to the intake and a pump moves the coolant to a seperate tank.
One of the problems with mounting a turbo on a 2.5L is that the intake and exahust ports are on the same side. This means the turbo won't be as close to the intake as would be optimal. Not only that but then you start moving the turbo down which leaves it a bit exposed if you plan on wheeling it.
From what I understand a larger turbo would require more RPM's to spool up but would also give you more PSI then I'd need/want. So a small turbo or a centrifugal would probably be the way to go. In CA, you have to pass a tailpipe test (sometimes on a dyno) and a visual inspection. This is done every other year hence wanted to be able to remove it easily.
There have been a few threads on this forum that have brought up the clevats.
-
I am well aware of the differences between the roots and the opcon/autorotor/whipple/kenne bell and the list goes on twin screw superchargers. But oem applications are all over the place for roots type, an eaton m62 would fit the motor great (i would use a benz slk230 that has the clutch type switch to turn it on or off), and you dont have to run more PSI.By larger i don't mean large, to have boost at 2800 with the turbo mounted on the other side of the engine bay a simple t3 with a .63 a/r exaust would probably do the trick. Setting up a water to air intercooler is not hard either, but there are a lot of parts to have it be efficient, i would run an air to air from a car that came stock with them, a small sidemount would work fine since none of us plan to go over 10psi on a stock block. I ask about emissions, because if all you need to do is pass the sniffer test then i would put an engine management system on the car instead of an FMU which is what most kits come with.
-
I guess you're missing the point with OEM. What most of the people on this forum see OEM they think that it will be bolt on, like for the most part the 2.4L to 2.4LT conversion. Taking a OEM turbo and just the turbo or supercharger isn't really OEM since they are made by a third company who also happens to sell directly.
In other threads we went though the pro's and cons of intercoolers and I agree a air-to-air would be the better way to go. Not ot mention adds more complication to the whole mess.
Here's a question though, is an intercooler 100% necessary with a turbo.? I suspect yes since you're using the exhaust to torn the impeller which will transfer some heat along with the heat that is caused from compressing the air.
As for engine management is that a stand alone unit ot does it run piggy-back on top of the PCM?
-
Well what i meant by you can use OEM parts from other cars is that the parts can be found cheap/easy (the cars came originally equipped with the parts). Also by these parts being OEM means they should be reliable. Sorry if i'm confusing people into thinking it is a direct bolt on affair, you will definately need to fabricate brackets to mount the supercharger, or reroute the downpipe (easier then fabbing up a whole new manifold) to place the turbo.
Reguardless of which form of forced induction you use, i think an intercooler is necessary. Compressing air heats it up, and then having it touching hot parts (turbo or s/c) does not help keep temps down. An intercooler will help with detonation big time, cooler air = less chance of preignition.
The megasquirt can be run to control fuel only (if there are other things that can control fuel that are out for jeeps you could use those too, just anything besides an FMU), and let the stock computer run the timing. With megasquirt II or MsNs-E you can control the ignition also, which with any form of forced induction can be very helpful. I plan to run fuel only at first, and then start playing with timing down the road.
-
There are actually a couple different turbo kits for the 2.5L Jeeps. Here is one link that I have access to. I have to find the other 2 but I deleted them from my bookmarks. I would prefer turbo over supercharger myself.
http://hometown.aol.com/turbochargedtj/myhomepage/auto.html
-
^ that guy definately dumped a lot of money into the motor, and at $20 for a manual i'm sure he has made a lot of money. This upcoming fall/winter when i plan to do megasquirt and then turbocharge the little 2.5L, i plan to do write ups with pictures etc. of the whole process to post up on this site. Hopefully it will convince jeffy to turbocharge his motor :twisted:
-
From what I've seen of the manual, it's not worth $20. I would not consier it a kit either.
Only two companes ever made a Turbo for the Wranglers and you don't hear of either anymore. Look at the supercharger kits and there are only a handfull of those. They are able to survice because they run on the 4.0L which is much more popular and they have other applications.
I'm still thinking centrifugal. With the power that I need, taking into consideration, gearing, weight, how I drive and any legal hurtels, the centrifugal would probably be the easiest. Not to mention fit my needs pretty well. A turbo isn't out of the question but lower down on the list.
Oh and the reason I mentioned the intercooler with the avenger is because they use it as an adapter to mate the Auto Rotor with the intake. Which would be a PITA to align rigth doing ti DIY.
-
mounting a water to air intercooler under the supercharger (in middle like the avenger kit) is very common. I wouldn't doubt if they are using an laminova (sp???) core, which is what most water to air kits run. They are very good and expensive. The autorotor is the supercharger i would run if i went that route, but again it's expensive. I don't plan to have a lot of money invested into my turbo set-up. I'll probably have just as much into it as i will the megasquirt system.
EDIT: i agree if someone was trying to mount a supercharger the way the avenger kit has it, and they really have no fabrication skills/time then it would be a complete PITA. I'm going to run the turbo because A. i like them more B. they are easy to set-up.