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General Forums => The Mess Hall => Topic started by: sharpxmen on August 20, 2011, 10:39:14 PM
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this is my plan
Magnaflow 14616 Stainless muffler 2.5'' in/out off ebay $73 (i have an offer at $65, we'll see if it gets accepted, if not $73 is actually quite cheap)
BANKS TAILPIPE FOR 04-06 UNLIMITED 52656 (stainless) 2.5'' from AcmeJeepParts $86 (i already ordered this one)
grand total $159 - compare to banks or similar at about $400 for all stainless catback, so it's pretty good imo.
I went with the unlimited on the tailpipe for 2 reasons: cheaper by $20 (i wonder why since it's longer) and I will need to cut and weld anyway since the muffler is round and to have some extra length available (the 14616 muffler is a bit shorter than the stock one).
i want to add a Magnaflow heavy metal stainless cat 2.5''/2.5'' at about $85 (ebay as well)
only downpipe will be at 2.25 but am planning to upgrade that one as well in the future, for now i will just use a reducer.
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I decided to go with Magnaflow 14226 which is a 2.5 inlet/outlet 5''x8'' oval shape (stock is 5x10) - all stainless mirror finish. It's a couple of inches shorter than the stock one. Was $80 on ebay with free shipping (just placed the order, takes about 10 days to get delivered as it's dropped shipped straight from Magnaflow. I also ordered the cat for $73 (also stainless), and the tailpipe for TJ unlimited for $86 (stainless and mandrel bent) - all are 2.5'' diameter so that will be a nice upgrade not to mention the free flowing muffler and the cat that is rated for 6.2L displacement (so it should flow better than the generic junk i've been running). Now I need a coupler/reducer from 2.25 to 2.5 and some band clamps (i'm just going to spend the coin on these as the regular exhaust clamps are deforming the pipes and it's a pain to take it apart, i have a band clamp at the end of the downpipe towards the cat and those come apart with very little effor every time if you manage to brake them loose by rotating back and forth a few times).
I'll post some pics once i have them all installed
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I started the mockup for the muffler and cat
both have 2.5'' ID at both inlet and outlet (dumb if you ask me) and also the inlet on the muffler was coming out at an angle, so i cut it about 1/2'' from the factory weld and added a 5'' long 2.5 OD stainless pipe (from the LJ tailpipe which is plenty long) so it slides into the outlet of the cat. Used a pre-formed Dynomax band clamp to join them together straight on both planes (they are 0.6 deg off which i find acceptable, will probably need to get them in the final position when on the Jeep anyway).
I also had to weld a reducer 2.5'' ID to 2.25'' ID at the muffler inlet to be able to mate it to the 2.25 downpipe.
Need to check the fit under the Jeep in the next few days.
(http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g222/sharpxmen/Drivetrain_Upgrades/Exhaust/Muffler_Cat_BandClamp.jpg)
(http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g222/sharpxmen/Drivetrain_Upgrades/Exhaust/Muffler_Cat_Mockup_1.jpg)
the Banks 2.5'' LJ tailpipe will require some cutting and welding (on my '95 YJ) so i don't recommend it unless you can weld stainless, it has nice mandrel bends and it's huge compared to the stock kink-bend pipe.
I'll update with more pics as I get things done.
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Should try to get a Pic of mine. Since I have the header on it was just a Bolt up if I got the 92 year cat. Muffler slipped right into the cat and the tail Pipe slipped right into the Muffler. Band clamps on them too and all is good.
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Muffler slipped right into the cat and the tail Pipe slipped right into the Muffler. Band clamps on them too and all is good.
that's what is supposed to be like, not sure why magnaflow has both in/out at 2.5 ID - but for me worked better since the inlet was not straight out but at an angle (manufacuring defect) so I would have had to cut it anyway or return it and wait another 2 weeks for a replacement - no big deal here but not a bolt-on solution. The 2.5'' diameter and all stainless makes it worth for me though.
Another thing i am planning to do before installing it all up there is to get some better thermal insulation for the floor - the factory heatshield is just above the muffler, in the FSM i saw a bolt on heatshield for the cat as well but i have yet to see one at a junkyard so I will do 2 things:
1 - will make a heatshield similar to the one above the muffler for the cat there is a rib on the tub where the factory heatshield is bolted on with 4 screws, this rib continues above the cat as well so my plan is to make a shield out of 20 ga stainless to go there.
2 - use fiberglass mat (double sided aluminum) above both the factory heatshield and the new one to reduce the heat transfer - the floor is getting ridiculously hot down there on long trips, i need to address this issue.
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I wondered about the heat shield Mine is just above the Muffler just as yours is. I did add a sound barrier which also acts as a heat shield. Just not sure if it will be enough. Please post if you do find a heat shield for the cat.
It would be nice if that shield also went down between the Cat and the Transmission.
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I'll post some pics once i have something going. Plan is to have it curved (bent actually) around the cat about 1/3 or 1/2 down (similar to the stock heatshield above the muffler) but it won't be a screen between the cat and transmission though.
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It would be nice if you could add a picture of the whole thing along with headers.
Would there be any gain on a 2.5 with a exhaust like this and headers?
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It would be nice if you could add a picture of the whole thing along with headers.
Would there be any gain on a 2.5 with a exhaust like this and headers?
Just as I was told, Did not really Notice any change in the low end, But now have some nice passing ability. Down shift to 4th and I can now pass at 55 -60 MPH. Could not do that before. Hills do not bog me down as they did before.
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That sounds actually pretty good. If I would add a TB with spacer that is 62mm and a exhaust with a sport cat and headers I would be going in the right direction.
Pretty hard for me to get a magnaflow for a reasonable price here in europe.
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That sounds actually pretty good. If I would add a TB with spacer that is 62mm and a exhaust with a sport cat and headers I would be going in the right direction.
Pretty hard for me to get a magnaflow for a reasonable price here in europe.
all you need is a center/offset muffler that is 4''x10'' or 5x8 or in between (4.5 x 9 for example) - any of those would work, there a plenty of options in EU for performance mufflers. Just make sure you match the piping diameter or weld adapters worst case scenario. the bigger problem would be to get the mandrel bent tailpipe over there imo, probably you'll need to fab it from pre-bent tubing.
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You sure about that rib from Muffler to the cat. Mine ends right at the end of the muffler.
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You sure about that rib from Muffler to the cat. Mine ends right at the end of the muffler.
mine goes all the way above the cat, i'll take some pics - maybe we talk about different things.
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cat and muffler test fit
(http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g222/sharpxmen/Drivetrain_Upgrades/Exhaust/Cat_Muffler_fit_1.jpg)
you can see the rib going all the way above the cat
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Tailpipe work - like i said, i don't recommend it, the LJ tailpipe is different than the YJ above the axle, so i had to cut and weld it back together. Luckily I ordered the LJ and not TJ so i had enough length to play with.
This is what i started with
(http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g222/sharpxmen/Drivetrain_Upgrades/Exhaust/LJ_Tailpipe.jpg)
And after lots of cuts, welds and fitting under the Jeep i got it like this
(http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g222/sharpxmen/Drivetrain_Upgrades/Exhaust/Tailpipe_tack_Compare.jpg)
(http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g222/sharpxmen/Drivetrain_Upgrades/Exhaust/Tailpipe_tack_1.jpg)
(http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g222/sharpxmen/Drivetrain_Upgrades/Exhaust/Tailpipe_tack_2.jpg)
and this is all done, welded and sanded
(http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g222/sharpxmen/Drivetrain_Upgrades/Exhaust/Tailpipe_done_1.jpg)
Of course i messed up 1 spot that took hours to fix, i tried to fill it with welds and then i realized it keeps sinking in and cant fix it so i cut the mess out and patched it with another piece of pipe i had left
(http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g222/sharpxmen/Drivetrain_Upgrades/Exhaust/Tailpipe_booboo_1.jpg)
(http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g222/sharpxmen/Drivetrain_Upgrades/Exhaust/Tailpipe_booboo_2.jpg)
(http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g222/sharpxmen/Drivetrain_Upgrades/Exhaust/Tailpipe_booboo_fix_1.jpg)
(http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g222/sharpxmen/Drivetrain_Upgrades/Exhaust/Tailpipe_booboo_fix_2.jpg)
Test fit on the Jeep
(http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g222/sharpxmen/Drivetrain_Upgrades/Exhaust/Tailpipe_fit_1.jpg)
(http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g222/sharpxmen/Drivetrain_Upgrades/Exhaust/Tailpipe_fit_2.jpg)
(http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g222/sharpxmen/Drivetrain_Upgrades/Exhaust/Tailpipe_fit_3.jpg)
(http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g222/sharpxmen/Drivetrain_Upgrades/Exhaust/Tailpipe_fit_4.jpg)
all good, need to weld the hangers to the tailpipe now and should he good to go (once everything else is done of course).
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Would the same exhaust be good on a 2.5 TJ?
What are the gains. I am thinking about doing the same.
I was also thinking that maybe since I am in Poland, I dont have to go with magnaflow, just buy some can and performance cat. What do the specs have to be?
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Would the same exhaust be good on a 2.5 TJ?
What are the gains. I am thinking about doing the same.
I was also thinking that maybe since I am in Poland, I dont have to go with magnaflow, just buy some can and performance cat. What do the specs have to be?
just go with the Banks TJ tailpipe in that case (if you can get it there, i had a choice between TJ and LJ and went with the latter for the extra length and 1 additional 45 deg bend which turned out to be the right call for me), if not you could go with some a pre-bent pipes and do what i did by cutting and fitting to route the tailpipe - 2.5'' is better than 2.25'' (stock) of course.
from memory this is what the routing was by angles starting from the ehxaust tip under the bumper and moving towards the muffler
1. straight pipe between the frame rail and the gas tank
2. 45 deg upwards towards the gastank crossmember (didn't modify this, just like it was)
3. i cut the straight portion right before the crossmember and used a 1/2 of one of the 45 deg bends to route it almost vertical close to the clearing in the crossmember (in my case to clear the trackbar frame mount)
4. used a aproximately a 90 deg bend cut off the 135 deg bent that was there before to get the pipe horizontally.
5. used another 45 deg to go down towards the muffler
6. used another 45 to get into the muffler outlet
of course i had to fiddle with the angles a bit, they won't be exactly those degrees but you always do that when you make a custom exhaust, but those are about the right bends you'd need to get one going for the YJ, for TJ i don't know exactly but should be close enough.
I don't have the lengths but a summary of what you might need would be:
- straight pipe (enough with some leftover to cover your straight portions)
- 3 x 90 deg (two of them cut in 1/2 for 4 x 45 deg bends or whatever you'd need to route all that, you could go with 2 x 90 deg and 2 x 45 deg but with the 90 would let you get the angle where you want it easier, like if you need 50 for example)
you might want to get an extra 90 deg to have a spare, i almost needed another bend but managed to save it, would have been nice to have the extra one would have made my routing to the muffler a bit easier (if you look at the pics i had to use a 3'' short piece right before that to get the routing right and cheat a bit on the angle).
hope this helps.
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Bedning is not a problem. Friend of mine has a mendrel bender
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It would be nice if you could add a picture of the whole thing along with headers.
I don't have a pic with the headers but here's one with the downpipe to cat
(http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g222/sharpxmen/Drivetrain_Upgrades/Exhaust/Downpipe_to_Cat_to_Muffler_1.jpg)
(http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g222/sharpxmen/Drivetrain_Upgrades/Exhaust/Downpipe_to_Cat_1.jpg)
got the hangers bent and welded - i used a Mustang hanger kit for both muffler outlet and rear hangers, worked out well
(http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g222/sharpxmen/Drivetrain_Upgrades/Exhaust/Tailpipe_Rear_Hanger_1.jpg)
(http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g222/sharpxmen/Drivetrain_Upgrades/Exhaust/Tailpipe_Rear_Hanger_2.jpg)
(http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g222/sharpxmen/Drivetrain_Upgrades/Exhaust/Tailpipe_Rear_Hanger_3.jpg)
(http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g222/sharpxmen/Drivetrain_Upgrades/Exhaust/Tailpipe_Rear_Hanger_4.jpg)
(http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g222/sharpxmen/Drivetrain_Upgrades/Exhaust/Tailpipe_Center_Hanger_1.jpg)
(http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g222/sharpxmen/Drivetrain_Upgrades/Exhaust/Tailpipe_Center_Hanger_2.jpg)
this is how i solved the Downpipe hanger, i used the clamp that came with the Banks tailpipe and bent the heck out of the old center hanger to be able to use it on the cat inlet, i can reuse this in the future so that works well, I want to bent it a bit more to get it another 1/2'' forward but works the way it is
(http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g222/sharpxmen/Drivetrain_Upgrades/Exhaust/Downpipe_Hanger_1.jpg)
(http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g222/sharpxmen/Drivetrain_Upgrades/Exhaust/Downpipe_Hanger_2.jpg)
as it sits right now it's all held by the hangers and it doesn't touch anywhere even if i shake it good.
Still need to weld the tip on but i am waiting for another tip i ordered to decide which one to use.
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From what I see, do you have your headers wrapped?
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From what I see, do you have your headers wrapped?
yes
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It looks great! You might consider a stock type rearmost hanger. I currently have one like the one you have now and when used on rocks, it tends to get bent due to the limited upward movement it allows. The stock hanger allows a lot more upward movement and helps save both the tube tip and the hanger.
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It looks great! You might consider a stock type rearmost hanger. I currently have one like the one you have now and when used on rocks, it tends to get bent due to the limited upward movement it allows. The stock hanger allows a lot more upward movement and helps save both the tube tip and the hanger.
i tried to find a stock hanger but i failed, i'm not even sure how it supposed to look like
the exhaust tip is above the like of the tank and shackle so i hope that will keep it protected, nonetheless would be better with a bit more flexibility although the one i have on there now keeps the tailpipe from hitting the tank, shackle or frame which is good considering that the 2.5'' is a tighter fit.
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The stock one is similar to the ones used near the muffler, only that the rubber piece is not as wide. A hook is attached to the frame with a couple of bolts, then there is a rubber piece, and then a hook welded to the exhaust pipe. They are probably pretty hard to find but maybe something similar could be used.
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The stock one is similar to the ones used near the muffler, only that the rubber piece is not as wide. A hook is attached to the frame with a couple of bolts, then there is a rubber piece, and then a hook welded to the exhaust pipe. They are probably pretty hard to find but maybe something similar could be used.
i could probably find/fab something similar to that but i kind of like the way this one is as it keeps the tailpipe from banging in the tank or shackle, i'll try it this way and if it fails i'll figure out something better.
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Looks like this. There's another piece that holds the bushing and slips into the groove. The other side is bolted down, trapping the bushing.
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-t_8aF49KlgU/TiMuM9BOeqI/AAAAAAAAZQ8/ZBXYLjyIpUU/s720/c45b4fbd.jpg)
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Looks like this. There's another piece that holds the bushing and slips into the groove. The other side is bolted down, trapping the bushing.
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-t_8aF49KlgU/TiMuM9BOeqI/AAAAAAAAZQ8/ZBXYLjyIpUU/s720/c45b4fbd.jpg)
i see, then is not that much different than what i have other than it is located lower (the rubber bushing)
(http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g222/sharpxmen/Drivetrain_Upgrades/Exhaust/Tailpipe_Rear_Hanger_1.jpg)
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i see, then is not that much different than what i have other than it is located lower (the rubber bushing)
I wouldn't bother changing it.
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Interesting, mine was different. Just a hook shape offset a bit from the frame without any other pieces (other than the rubber hanger).
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From what I see, do you have your headers wrapped?
found a pic of the exhaust header before it was installed
(http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g222/sharpxmen/Misc/Pacesetter_Header.jpg)
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so today i took the jeep out for a spin with the new exhaust installed - it's not loud at all, i am surprised since this muffler is a straight thru, no baffles, you can see on the other side no problem - it has a perforated tube inside and is fiberglass packed, has a nice low tone compared to the stock one - it is a bit louder than stock but as a comparison not as loud as my v6 camaro with stock exhaust. I'm happy with the choice to be honest, i was a bit worried about how loud it would be (had my stock muffler broken once at the inlet and it was pain in the ears) but it's fairly quiet so far for this design.
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Problem with glaspacks it that they burn that stuff out in time. Had glasspacks with dual pipes on my old dually that thing sounded like it had open pipes roared something fierce and loved every bit of it
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Looks like good work, I remeber when I had fancy mandrel pipes, but rocks like to eat them so eventually I through a flowmaster under there and cheap turndown, now it gets eaten on the trail and doesn't cost much haha but looks good man
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Looks like good work, I remeber when I had fancy mandrel pipes, but rocks like to eat them so eventually I through a flowmaster under there and cheap turndown, now it gets eaten on the trail and doesn't cost much haha but looks good man
how would the rocks eat the tailpipe?
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I've smashed the tailpiep closed more than once and ripped the whole catback off once, just getting in a bad line, it happens
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I've smashed the tailpiep closed more than once and ripped the whole catback off once, just getting in a bad line, it happens
i just don't see how it can happen on a YJ, there's the leaf spring in the way for the rear portion, axle in the middle and to hit it at the join elbow with the muffler you'd be damaging the driveshaft as well so the tailpipe would be the last of your worries. Now, the muffler is more exposed so i can see that being more likely to happen.
(http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g222/sharpxmen/Drivetrain_Upgrades/Axle_Final_Assembly/Axle_on_Jeep_1.jpg)
(http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g222/sharpxmen/Drivetrain_Upgrades/Axle_Final_Assembly/Axle_on_Jeep_2.jpg)
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i just don't see how it can happen on a YJ, there's the leaf spring in the way for the rear portion, axle in the middle and to hit it at the join elbow with the muffler you'd be damaging the driveshaft as well so the tailpipe would be the last of your worries. Now, the muffler is more exposed so i can see that being more likely to happen.
Most exhausts have several inches sticking out past the rear. Back up into a rock or even a hill and it crushes the tip. You can also buckle the whole pipe if the rear mount breaks in the process.
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Most exhausts have several inches sticking out past the rear. Back up into a rock or even a hill and it crushes the tip. You can also buckle the whole pipe if the rear mount breaks in the process.
mine is tucked in behind the hitch mount and above the shackle
(http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g222/sharpxmen/Drivetrain_Upgrades/Exhaust/Tailpipe_Rear_Hanger_1.jpg)
(http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g222/sharpxmen/Drivetrain_Upgrades/Exhaust/Tailpipe_Rear_Hanger_2.jpg)
(http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g222/sharpxmen/Drivetrain_Upgrades/Exhaust/Tailpipe_Rear_Hanger_3.jpg)
i actually ended up using another tip (Banks sent me another one, don't have a picture of that one right now) - it is even higher than this one in the picture (it is 2.5 rather than 2.75'' diameter and cut leveled with the rest of the tailpipe - less turn down that is)
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jeffy is spot on to what i meant as usual, and yeah tucking it in is why i have turndown on it most of the time. in pa you cant hae the tailpipe tucked in. it must exit out the back of the vehicle so i have a cheapo tailpipe i use for inspection and then i put the turn down on when i think about it
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you could also have a clamp-on tip to be compliant and take it off when on the trail. only problem with turn-down is that would get you lots of exhaust gas to smell, had that happening when the muffler gave up on me.
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That is true but the turndown is just shy of the gas tank skid and j have no rear seats or anything so it doesn't bother me really
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you could also have a clamp-on tip to be compliant and take it off when on the trail. only problem with turn-down is that would get you lots of exhaust gas to smell, had that happening when the muffler gave up on me.
we have experienced the opposite (at least on road) if the exhaust tip points straight out the exhaust tends to swirl up and into the cap of the jeep (this is all with no top on of course) but if you have a tip that points down the exhaust goes down and stays out of the cab resulting in no exhaust smell. it doesn't have to point straight down but at-least be angled down.
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we have experienced the opposite (at least on road) if the exhaust tip points straight out the exhaust tends to swirl up and into the cap of the jeep (this is all with no top on of course) but if you have a tip that points down the exhaust goes down and stays out of the cab resulting in no exhaust smell. it doesn't have to point straight down but at-least be angled down.
that does make sense
i was referring to having the turndown at the muffler outlet, the smell drove me nuts when that muffler broke but based on what you say it won't make a difference if you're without the tip either.
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Most exhausts have several inches sticking out past the rear. Back up into a rock or even a hill and it crushes the tip. You can also buckle the whole pipe if the rear mount breaks in the process.
Had that buckling happen one time. Still can't figure out how a rock got up in there! Be really careful when backing up.
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we have experienced the opposite (at least on road) if the exhaust tip points straight out the exhaust tends to swirl up and into the cap of the jeep (this is all with no top on of course) but if you have a tip that points down the exhaust goes down and stays out of the cab resulting in no exhaust smell. it doesn't have to point straight down but at-least be angled down.
That's why they have turn downs. The exhaust hits the pavement and spreads out at ground level.
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yeah thats been my experience, i havent had any problems while running a turndown, and i did the tip thing before to and somebody snatched uit and damn near tore my hanger off in the process
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I was thinking one thing.
Is it possibe that my Jeep which is a 2001 could have the cats blocked, because it is like it has no power. Drivin in 60 and then it comes a small hill I have to reduce to 4 gear.
Would I gain something by cutting it out? Dont have to worry about inspection where I live.
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I was thinking one thing.
Is it possibe that my Jeep which is a 2001 could have the cats blocked, because it is like it has no power. Drivin in 60 and then it comes a small hill I have to reduce to 4 gear.
Would I gain something by cutting it out? Dont have to worry about inspection where I live.
What size tires? 5th is Overdrive not a passing gear.
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What size tires? 5th is Overdrive not a passing gear.
31"
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a clogged converter will rob power in all gears and if your converter was clogged your cel would be illuminated indicating your rear o2 having an irregular signal
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a clogged converter will rob power in all gears and if your converter was clogged your cel would be illuminated indicating your rear o2 having an irregular signal
Well, no lights have been iluminating. I really dont know if this is the issue. Maybe I think it has litle power, but fx I am having problems passing a car at 50-60
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its pretty hard for anyone to say diagnose it so to say on just the idea that it doesnt pass well at speed. like i said with an obd2 system like you have the the o2's would call out that the cat isnt working effieciently. i dont know all the details on your jeep but jeeps are not usually real powerful when they are in passing gear. this gear is meant for conserving fuel not for producing power. my suggestion would be to just drop a gear when you want to pass someone. doesnt sound like there is anything wrong with your jeep