4bangerjp.com
General Forums => The Mess Hall => Topic started by: chrisfranklin on March 10, 2006, 11:20:10 PM
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My Jeep has been running great lately. But, it gets cold for So. Cal. at night these days and I've started to notice a noise that only seems to occur at a low evening temperatures. Its a "squeel" and it only seems to sound when I am idle and stationary; once underway it seems to quiet down (or maybe the Borla exhaust rumble just drowns out the noise :lol: .
Anyway, sounds to me like the power-steering pump has a problem or otherwise is low on fluid. But, I check the fluid and the resevoir has it at the proper level; hell everything is at the proper level and functioning properly on my rig, as I am the resident "outlaw" DIYer (at least according to posted rules) at my apartment complex.
So, assuming that it is the power-steering pump that is making the "squeel," do you think this could be an issue of air in the hydraulic lines? Any similar circumstances out there. Thanks. Jeffy?
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You sure it's not the serpentine belt?
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Last time I looked it was ok, but will give it a doublecheck.
Read some writeup about air in the lines causing a PS squeel. Writeup detailed a whole process in which you crank the wheels left to write, shut engine on and off and then top off power steering resevoir and the air is expelled and squeel elmiminated. Unfamiliar noises can be tough to describe w/out a sound file.
Actually may record audio and post here using a third party, free-bee audio/video host. Done that with audio before and it seemed to work pretty well
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If it's not the belt then I would guess one of the idlers is going bad. They often do...
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:cry:
I am thinking that the power steering is actually ok. I checked it, found no leaks etc.
But, now I am detecting the "squeal" day or night, regardless of temperature. It may be the waterpump or something else. Probably should go and check the coolant level too.
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I hope, I think I may have answered that.
http://www.4bangerjp.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=5534#5534
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Probably the damn waterpump! Just had the thing replaced within the last year. Checked coolant and it is normal level, so the current pump has some liquid to spin
Probably get something else this time, maybe the flowkool pump. If it turns out to be the waterpump, what's ridiculous is that for the price of a high-quality aftermarket pump, such as flowkool, I'd be getting just a stock pump from a service retailer.
Alternator was replaced at around 80-90k, so I am fairly certain I haven't blown the thing yet. And I cranked around the power steering and really put it through its paces and didn't notice any noise. Me thinks its the water pump.
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I'd recommend a factory water pump. The remanufactured one's (even with a 'lifetime guarantee' aren't that good.
So your idea of a flowkool, or similar is a good idea, just stay away from those NAPA/Schucks/Kragen/Auto Zone remanufactured one's.
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I had the belt replaced last night. Squeal seemed to disappear. But, then I thought I heard it briefly again. Could be alternator bearings or not. Same deal as on 4BangerJP's "Dan Marino's " post.
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Tighten the belt a bit more.
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I agree with Jeffy, tighten the belt. You do know that when you install a new belt, there is a break-in period (that almost no one cares about) where you're supposed to re-tighten the belt(s) after so many miles to make up for the slight stretch the belts will yield while breaking in? You probably do, but, like most of us, probably don't take the extra time to go back and actaully do that ;) . I had to readjust my serp belt several times till I got the squeal out of mine. My belt squealed VERY rarely. It was so rare that by the time I got somewhere I could check it, I forgot about the dumb thing! I noticed it flapping more than I thought it should be one day I was under my hood screwing around with one thing or another. This is how I found out that my jeep has no dang auto/spring loaded tensioner for the serp! That's friggin' nuts! A serp job was a 15 minute job when I worked at a dealership, this thing takes noticeably longer than that thanks to all the dumb adjuster bolts you have to find/loosen just to adjust the dang thing. I do see the benefit of this if you ever hit LOTS of water at high engine speeds; the auto/spring loaded adjuster will actually let the belt hydroplane off the pulleys, but I can still bitch about it being a pain in the butt to do it manually, right?!
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Yeah, the other night (and this squeel noise only seems to sound at night for some reason), I popped the hood to doublecheck where this squeel is coming from and see if I could find out why the noise disappears when I rev the engine a little.
I was looking for the noise to be coming from the Water pump or the alternator or maybe the fan belt. So I get close and listen in and realize that the squeel is coming from the bored out 4.0TB I installed on my 2.5.
Had changed and adjusted the fan belt, which was a pretty cheap deal, but that didn't help. Figured it was going to be a water pump or alternator change, but both of those parts were functioning well, so I was seriously confused.
Anyway, I am running a spacer, tubing and open-element filter. May pull the spacer out and see if that helps any. Have heard of this noise coming from 4.0L TB installs, but thought mine had been immune till now. Sound is seriously loud, going to have to do something. You may see a $70 spacer up on a certain auction site soon. You guys heard of any other solutions, maybe covered here?
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A squeal from a TB? The spacer if it's a poweraid will sometimes whistle but not squeal. :?:
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Whatever the correct wording, squeel (sounds like a mouse squeel to me) or "whistle," it sounds high-pitched and annoying as hell. At least it ain't a bad alternator or water pump, apparently. :wink:
Don't mind losing the spacer to fix it, but don't want to lose the 4.0 TB.
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Found this post on spacer install-- guy said he rotated the spacer 90 degrees and flipped it upside down and that this apparently killed the "whistle." Going to give that a go today.
http://jeepin.com/features/tbspacer/index.asp
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I must admit... It's alot easier that rotating your Jeep 90 degrees and then flipping it upside down. But I'll bet you'll achieve the same results. :lol:
I am interested to know if it solves your problem. It'll be helpful to alot of people if it worked.
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It will whistle more with an open air filter. You can really hear the air being sucked in since there is no air box to insulate the noise. I guess either mine's in teh right position or it never bothers me. Only the TBS's with the cits in them whistle as the air tries to bypass the cuts and runs over them.
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I did it. funny thing was that when I flipped it and did the 90 degree thing, I saw that the new "top-side" of it was engraved with writing , "4.0 top".
So, I think I may have inadvertently had the thing upside down to begin with :lol: Seems to run better now, too. No whistle (course, that seemed to happen at night, colder temp and idle speed). Will run Jeep tonight and see if no whistle still
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I did it. funny thing was that when I flipped it and did the 90 degree thing, I saw that the new "top-side" of it was engraved with writing , "4.0 top".
So, I think I may have inadvertently had the thing upside down to begin with :lol: Seems to run better now, too. No whistle (course, that seemed to happen at night, colder temp and idle speed). Will run Jeep tonight and see if no whistle still
Yes, it pays to pay attention to what the Mfg advised. :lol:
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Despite flipping the poweraid TB spacer that I had, I was still getting a serious whistle/squeel noise.
So, I ended up selling the Poweraid Spacer at auction for $30 + shipping and buying one of the no-swirly generic Spacers that are sold for about $22 + shipping for buy-it-now. Installed the new, no-swirly spacer and that fixed the problem, finally. Man, that noise was driving me frigging nuts!! :lol:
I don't know if any of you guys using Poweraid TB spacers have had similar problems or maybe only if you are running an open element K&N style filter. But, be warned about the "Squeel/whistle" Poweraid TB spacer potential problem if you are going CAI or open-element air filter!! :evil:
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finally fixed the problem
Yeah, for a little while. But, then the noise came back -- a jetliner on take-off whistle that is super annoying.
I went out double-checked to make sure it wasnt a bearing going in the alternator, power steering, water pump. But, I kept coming back to the Throttle Body as the source Well, wasn't the spacer; gaskets are all new, everything tightened down, no leak in tubing, hoses, vacuum leaks etc.
So i go and do a search on Throttle Body noise. I run in to a site on Mustang 5.0L TBs that are aftermarket jobs by BBK and running 70mm. You had all these posts with these guys, there, saying they were hearing the same type of noise from their engines that I am getting. These guys contacted the manufacturer, BBK, who recommended grinding out the IAC with a Dremel tool -- apparently the rough surface and sharp corner can cause serious noise at idle and just off idle. I am going to pull my TB and give this a go at the soonest available time with my Dremel tool. These guys on the mustang site claimed that the grind job on the IAC did the trick -- I am a little skeptical.
Here's the Mustang site commentary http://www.allfordmustangs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=49292
Anyway, if this is the cause of the noise I am getting, then watch your step if you are picking up a 62mm TB for your 4 banger -- there may be a little bit of extra work involved to get the thing to operate like the OEM piece.
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I have a 62mm TB and spacer and no noise. When I changed it over the IAC was smooth and clean, so they may be on to something.
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Had posted on this 4 banger noise I was getting here
http://www.4bangerjp.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=1023&highlight=squeel
And, the noise problem in general had been ongoing for the last 7+ monthes. First mentioned it here, but I was at first knee-jerking thinking it was bad accessories running off the engine or a loose belt and hadn't really cracked in to the problem yet.
http://www.4bangerjp.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=1024&highlight=squeel
Finally had some time last month and got to work on it. Guys at 4xDoctors, Burbank, Ca. saw that the engine mounts were shredded, brake master cylinder was leaking and fan clutch was loose. All that was changed out. (side note: They didn't suggest there was any piston obstruction in my dented rear bilstein shocks, which I thought was at first the case; and any suspension problems were due to bad motor mounts). The Doctors also noticed that the most rearwards bolt on the exhaust manifold had sheared off and they asked me if I wanted to get it fixed. I declined due to time. They couldn't detect the squeel I had mentioned. Since they were getting ready to shoot an engine swap show, I decided to pull out my Jeep and find a shop a little less busy.
Got the Jeep back on the road, but the squeal noise from the engine came on strong. Had done online research a dozen times or so over monthes and nothing really pointed to an answer (thought I had originally detected the noise coming from the TB spacer or the 4.0TB -- turns out I was in the right ballpark, at least)
Was getting a little fed up at this point with the noise. Purchased a Sears engine stethacope and hunted around for the source of the noise under the hood myself. Didn't hear anything sounding like this squeal noise. Seemed that the only place on the engine that I couldn't get too with the stethascope, and with the engine, running was the water pump -- located behind the fan. So, given process of elimination and recent work in the area (fan clutch change), I rolled the dice and ordered a new water pump, Flow Kool, and had it installed.
Mechanic at a different shop installed the water pump. Then noticed this shrieking noise I had been talking about when he restarted the engine. Old Mechanic comes out to me and says, "hear that?...Man, that's annoying!" He runs around, calls some other guys at the shop over, take a look at it, don't know what the problem is, where it's coming from. They spend an hour looking at it, put it on the lift, back down. Finally one of them takes his arm and leans well over in to the engine bay and on to the intake manifold with his body weight. The noise changes pitch. A gasket leak, intake apparently Gotta admit, I wouldn't have thought to put weight on the intake manifold. Leak must have been on the underside of the intake manifold, because I had gone over what I could get to with the engine stethascope.
Anyway, (one piece(?) intake/exhaust) gasket was changed out, the bolt on exhaust manifold was replaced- sheared bolt was drilled out and hole was rethreaded. If anything, I was expecting a leak in the gasket around the exhaust manifold, given the bolt shear, but not the intake manifold. But, sh#t happens and gaskets wear out where you aren't expecting it or can detect it.
You might be saying, "ok Franklin, what solved the problem was getting a team of mechanics who had the time to really test things out until they figured out the source of the noise." I agree. But labor is expensive and I have seen big money blown on (intentonally?) misdiagnosed, trial-and-error auto shop repairs which didn't solve problems in other vehicles. Was looking to work around that by staying in the loop. May have saved some money, but a lot of time went out the window doing so. :lol: Course, did get to know my Jeep a little better, which is worth something.
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Well, I see that you didn't run away...
Nice to see a follow up. :thumbsup: With an intake leak you'll usually see a spike in the idle since it's getting more air then it should as the throttle valce is closed and the only air getting into the engine is from the AIS motor that bypasses the throttle valve. Must have been a really small hole to cause a whistle but no increase in idle. Most likely it was a defect in the gasket or perhaps the gasket was pinched or missaligned when it was initally installed. It's a bit of a fluke in that it's not something that happens very often. It also sounds like the exhaust manifold wasn't leaking since that would make a puffing or tapping sound like valve tap. At least it's fixed and shouldn't become a problem again.
Oh, one way to diagnose a intake or exahust gasket leak is to use soapy water in a squirt bottle and look for foamy areas or a change in noise. Others use Butane gas on the suspect area. If the idle shoots up it will help localize the problem area.
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There is a stethoscope you can pick up at Kragen for under ten dollars to pin point the problem. Start the motor, put the stethoscope on, make sure you do not get sucked into the fan or belt and touch parts of the motor with it until you pinpoint the noise with it. My p/s pump has made a growl noise above 3,000 rpm when hot for over 70,000 miles,or 4 years.
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There is a stethoscope you can pick up at Kragen for under ten dollars to pin point the problem. Start the motor, put the stethoscope on, make sure you do not get sucked into the fan or belt and touch parts of the motor with it until you pinpoint the noise with it. My p/s pump has made a growl noise above 3,000 rpm when hot for over 70,000 miles,or 4 years.
He bought one. Although would you be able to hear a high pitch whistle with one? I've never tried. :nothing:
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Try it !!!
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Try it !!!
Well, I don't own one. I use the old school, long screw driver or dowel trick. Never tried it with them either. I don't have a leak either which is why I was asking. :blbl:
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I got tired of reading all the posts and made a suggestion instead.
Those two piece gakets are something. I spent tiiiiiiiime on my TJ putting in a banks torque tube header. Got the run around from a dodge dealer , could not torque 1 or 2 intake bolts up front by the p/s pump but by feel, and all in all it runs fine so far.
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Try it !!!
Well, I don't own one. I use the old school, long screw driver or dowel trick. Never tried it with them either. I don't have a leak either which is why I was asking. :blbl:
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