4bangerjp.com
General Forums => The Mess Hall => Topic started by: andpgud on September 19, 2011, 02:52:24 AM
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Hi guys. Studying the thing of getting more power. I found a guy who has been tuning the 4 banger and he tells me that if I want the car to be fast I should start with putting on a bigger TB and the camshaft. He had some custom made and that the 4 banger get around 15 ho from just the cam. Thinking about getting one.
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I run a Mopar Performance cam and it required the use of performance valve springs due to the added valve lift, magnum v8 valve springs work great.
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And what did you acchieve by the new cam?
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wish I could find a performance cam I missed out on a few of them now!
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I have the Hesco RVOB cam in my 94. It woke things up well.
Dave
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I have the Hesco RVOB cam in my 94. It woke things up well.
Dave
This one
http://www.hesco.us/shop.asp?action=details&inventoryID=167924&catId=7758
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I also run a Mopar camshaft (I think it is the same one Bounty is running). Gives it a but more ooomph, but mainly in the 2,500+ RPM range... Low end torque is about the same I would say.
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I can get one for 140$ and the only thinkg I have to do is to time the engine differenlty. Should hive me 15 hp. IS that possible?
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I can get one for 140$ and the only thinkg I have to do is to time the engine differenlty. Should hive me 15 hp. IS that possible?
Just be careful WHERE it adds the 15HP... If it is at 5,000 RPM's, it will do you no good, and you will most likely sacrifice low end torque for it...
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I can get one for 140$ and the only thinkg I have to do is to time the engine differenlty. Should hive me 15 hp. IS that possible?
is it a re-grind? if yes then talk to delta-cam, they have them for about $60
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This one
http://www.hesco.us/shop.asp?action=details&inventoryID=167924&catId=7758
what did you do for the spring and retainer's ?
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what did you do for the spring and retainer's ?
JUst found the ad, was wondering if this was what he was talking about or if anybody else had used it.
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JUst found the ad, was wondering if this was what he was talking about or if anybody else had used it.
:thumb:
I noted they have part numbers for springs & retainers with optional valves!
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Just be careful WHERE it adds the 15HP... If it is at 5,000 RPM's, it will do you no good, and you will most likely sacrifice low end torque for it...
He sais that it will improve torque from 2k to 4k.
Should I maybe just save the money for a 4 liter swap?
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Found another Cam but zip for Specs.
Sealed Power CS 779 its for the jeep 2.5 but what would we gain by using it.
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Found another Cam but zip for Specs.
Sealed Power CS 779 its for the jeep 2.5 but what would we gain by using it.
OEM specs, there's a list of cam specs somewhere on their site - i looked at the same one abou 1 year ago, stock replacement
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OEM specs, there's a list of cam specs somewhere on their site - i looked at the same one abou 1 year ago, stock replacement
There site listed nothing but for the cost thats what I thought it was stock. I was hoping.
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Found some more info, will see if they still sell thses parts.
I have been looking into more power from my 2.5 other than supercharger or turbo..so i have SOMTHING from comp cams.. here is the e-mail
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Hi Brian,
You will want to use part# 822-12 lifters with this camshaft and also use part# 926-12 valve springs which will require some machine work to the head to fit. I will list pricing below for you, if you have any further questions or need help ordering you can do so direct through me. Please get back with me if I can help further, thanks.
114-000-5: $198.40
822-12: $66.41
926-12: $66.68
PRICES ARE SUBJECT TO CHANGE IF ORDERED IN A KIT
For more information about any other COMP CAMS product, please feel free to contact COMP CAMS at 1-800-999-0853 or at www.compcams.com
Thank you for choosing COMP CAMS
-----Original Message-----
From: Brian Reichard [mailto:twistedoffroad1997@yahoo.com]
Sent: Friday, January 15, 2010 10:38 PM
To: Cole Ventrone
Subject: Re: brian reichard - COMPCams.com - Camshaft Recommendation Form
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From: Cole Ventrone <cventrone@compcams.com>
To: twistedoffroad1997@yahoo.com
Sent: Fri, January 15, 2010 1:26:14 PM
Subject: RE: brian reichard - COMPCams.com - Camshaft Recommendation Form
Hi Brian,
After looking through your information I suggest one of our CUSTOM GRIND
series cams. Here is the part number for the cam I have suggested
(114-000-5). I recommend that you change your valve springs and lifters if
you are interested we here at Comp Cams can put kits together. Just let me
know? I will list the specs on this cam below. If you have any questions
feel free to reply or call our tech line. Have a great day.
GRIND#: A4 5226 /5206 H 113.0
DURATION @ .050 INTAKE 200 ROCKER ARM
RATIO
VALVE ADJ INTAKE .000 DURATION @ .050 EXHAUST 206 INTAKE
1.60
VALVE ADJ EXHAUST .000 LOBE LIFT INTAKE .2600 EXHAUST
1.60
VALVE LIFT INTAKE .416 LOBE LIFT EXHAUST .2720
VALVE LIFT EXHAUST .435 LOBE SEPARATION 113.0
DURATION .006 INTAKE C/L 110.0
TAPPET LIFT INTAKE 248 CAM ADVANCE 3
TAPPET LIFT EXHAUST 255 HYDRAULIC Y
VALVE TIMING .050 OVERHEAD CAM N
VALVE OPEN INTAKE 10- JOURNAL DIAMETER STD
VALVE OPEN EXHAUST 39
VALVE CLOSED INTAKE 30
VALVE CLOSED EXHAUST 13-
For more information about any other COMP CAMS product, please feel free to
contact COMP CAMS at 1-800-999-0853 or at www.compcams.com
<outbind://49/www.compcams.com>
Thank you for choosing COMP CAMS
Cole Ventrone
Comp Cams Performance Group
ZEX, RHS, FAST, INGLESE,
cventrone@compcams.com <mailto:msummerfield@compcams.com>
1-800-365-9145 ext. 534
-----Original Message-----
From: Fredy Hilario [mailto:fhilario@compcams.com]
Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 9:12 AM
To: Cole Ventrone
Subject: brian reichard - COMPCams.com - Camshaft Recommendation Form
<http://www.CompCams.com>
Camshaft Recommendation Request
Note To Customer: The information below has been received by CAM Help? tech
support. This email is for your records.
CONTACT INFORMATION
First Name: brian Email: twistedoffroad1997@yahoo.com
Last Name: reichard Day Phone: (8am-5pm CST)
VEHICLE INFORMATION
Make: jeep Model: wrangler
Year: 1997
Weight: 2000 lbs. Axle Ratio: 4.11
Transmission Type: Automatic Tire Height: 31x10.50x15
Torque Converter Stall Speed: none
ENGINE INFORMATION
Engine Block Type: Other Engine Size: 150ci 2464cc ***
Number of Cylinders: 4 Bore: 3.88
Stroke: 3.19 Compression Ratio: 9..2:1
Piston Type: n/a Connecting Rod Length: n/a
Intake Manifold Type: n/a
Cylinder Head(s) Brand: 403
Head Runner Volume: n/a Ported Heads: No
Intake Valve Size: n/a Exhaust Valve Size: n/a
Rocker Arm Type: Stock Rocker Arm Ratio n/a:1
Timing Set Type: Chain Timing Set Fixed/Adjustable: Fixed
Exhaust Headers: No Exhaust Type: Single
RPM Range Low: N/A RPM Range High: 5550
Nitrous Oxide: No Horsepower from Nitrous: N/A
COMPUTER CONTROLLED VEHICLES
Vehicle Computer Type: Stock
Speed Density Sensor: Don't Know
Mass Air Sensor: Don't Know
FUEL DELIVERY
Fuel Type: Pump Gas Fuel Octane Rating: 97
Carburetor: No Carburetor Size: N/A
Direct Port Injection: No Number of Injectors: N/A
Oversize Injectors: N/A
Electronic Fuel Injection: Yes Oversize Injectors: No
Custom Tuned: No
AIR DELIVERY
Turbo Charger: No Supercharger: No
Max Boost Level: n/a
APPLICATION SPECIFICS
Application Type: Off-Road 4x4 Other Application Type: N/A
Race Class (If Applicable): N/A
VALVE TRAIN SPECIFICS
Desired Lifter Type: Not Sure
What type of camshaft are you currently using?
Camshaft Brand: stock Part Number: N/A
Specs: N/A
Read more: http://forums.jpmagazine.com/70/8007538/jeep-engine/25-cam-and-performance-2-comp-cam-info/index.html#ixzz1YdaRkiJQ
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I left a message on their forum to see what they say about a cam or kit for the 2.5.
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I also subbmitted a request for cam recommendation thru their web site.
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There site listed nothing but for the cost thats what I thought it was stock. I was hoping.
yeah, it took me a while to find it, there's a product catalog pdf that lists the specs for their cam. I did get itchy too when i saw it but nothing there.
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is 140$ a good price for a camshaft that give me more power on the 2k-4k or should I just save the money and spend it on a 4 liter swap?
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yeah, it took me a while to find it, there's a product catalog pdf that lists the specs for their cam. I did get itchy too when i saw it but nothing there.
sharp how much improvement on the Hesco inc. link he posted
Advertised duration: 264 214@ .050
Lobe centers: 110 degrees
Lift: 470
@ 289$
would it be worth the cash plus add the valves and springs
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Are you answering me or someone else?
What lifters and tickers should I get with it?
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Found some more info, will see if they still sell thses parts.
Funny, that guy posted the same post all over the internet. If you look on Jeepz, you'll find Bounty as well as jfrabat and Sine Deviance's Avatar commented. Interesting how it's listed as an AMC 1980-1983 cam which wouldn't be an AMC but rather a Pontiac.
http://www.jeepz.com/forum/cj-yj-tj-jk/28507-2-5-cam-performance-comp-cam-info.html#post224772
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So for the cam I can get. Should I go with the mopar springs?
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sharp how much improvement on the Hesco inc. link he posted
Advertised duration: 264 214@ .050
Lobe centers: 110 degrees
Lift: 470
(at) 289$
would it be worth the cash plus add the valves and springs
i have no idea but if i am to guess probably about 15HP and possibly 20 to 25 if you get roller rockers 1.6 or 1.7 respectively. Mind you it also depends to what that cam's range is and i'm too lazy to look right now, it could get better and flatter torque distribution rather than top end so that can be more beneficial even with less HP increase. They have pretty good customer service so an email or phone call will probably get you the right answer.
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Just got a reply from Crane Cams.
Hello,
We do not make cams for that engine. We may be able to regrind a
suitable core. The cost would be $126.00 plus shipping.
Thanks for asking,
Greg
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Just got a reply from Crane Cams.
they used to from what i remember, i guess they just do the 6 cyl now.
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What do they do when they re-grind a cam? Add material to get a certain lift/duration?
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they used to from what i remember, i guess they just do the 6 cyl now.
That was for the 4cyl, Not sure what they do but you do have to provide the cam.
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What do they do when they re-grind a cam? Add material to get a certain lift/duration?
yup
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What do they do when they re-grind a cam? Add material to get a certain lift/duration?
actually you remove (sorry Jeffy), reducing base circle for example gives more lift, regrind the cam profile and you get more duration etc. there's a limit as in how much you can take off.
there is a process to add metal but from what i know you can't do it on the cam profile but you can add on the bearing journals and regrind to bring back to specs, maybe it's possible on the cam lobes as well but normal process is to take material off to reshape the profile.
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actually you remove (sorry Jeffy), reducing base circle for example gives more lift, regrind the cam profile and you get more duration etc. there's a limit as in how much you can take off.
there is a process to add metal but from what i know you can't do it on the cam profile but you can add on the bearing journals and regrind to bring back to specs, maybe it's possible on the cam lobes as well but normal process is to take material off to reshape the profile.
Whoops my bad, I misread it. Not add but subtract.
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Whoops my bad, I misread it. Not add but subtract.
Guess that's why it's called re-grind :lol:
Seems kind of weird to take away material and get more lift and duration.
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Guess that's why it's called re-grind :lol:
Seems kind of weird to take away material and get more lift and duration.
the cam lobe lift is basically the diffrence between the base circle radius (when the valve is closed) and the distance between the lobe peak and the center of the camshaft, you reduce the base circle radius and the result is increased lift (you need longer pushrods as the lifter would go farther down).
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i have no idea but if i am to guess probably about 15HP and possibly 20 to 25 if you get roller rockers 1.6 or 1.7 respectively. Mind you it also depends to what that cam's range is and i'm too lazy to look right now, it could get better and flatter torque distribution rather than top end so that can be more beneficial even with less HP increase. They have pretty good customer service so an email or phone call will probably get you the right answer.
:thumb:
I would rather build torque then hp
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I bought the camshaft. Anything else I should get?
Yes, I know I am a noob, but if I wont ask, I wont learn :D
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I bought the camshaft. Anything else I should get?
Yes, I know I am a noob, but if I wont ask, I wont learn :D
Somewhere on this forum there is an install topic. Found it once this weekend looking for something else.
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I bought the camshaft. Anything else I should get?
Yes, I know I am a noob, but if I wont ask, I wont learn :D
Springs, spring retainers, and probably change the timing chain while you are at it is not a bad idea... Might be a good oportunity to also change to rocker rollers (and pushrods since you are at it!), but that's expensive.
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Springs, spring retainers
Any brand I should be looking at, or just go with the stock ones?
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Springs, spring retainers
Any brand I should be looking at, or just go with the stock ones?
Call Summitt, and they can tell you what you need...
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Well. I am in Iceland. Calling is not my kind of thing.
You mean I should go with some upgraded ones.
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I bought the camshaft. Anything else I should get?
Yes, I know I am a noob, but if I wont ask, I wont learn :D
the minimum you should change (and not optional, you have to) are the hydraulic lifters and pushrods - the cam and lifters need to break-in together. Use break-in oil for the first 800-1000 km and change it after that. Follow the break-in procedure recommended by them. Use cam (or engine) assembly lube on the cam and lifters.
not sure if that cam requires springs or not (as in mandatory and not just recommended), if it does you need to get them.
optional and a good idea what jf said
Well. I am in Iceland. Calling is not my kind of thing.
You mean I should go with some upgraded ones.
you can send them an email
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you can send them an email
What he said... I forgot about the tappets, but my cam came with them.
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The cam has been on another car. Nothing wronk with it. Does that change anything? Are the lifters supposed to come with the cam?
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The cam has been on another car. Nothing wronk with it. Does that change anything? Are the lifters supposed to come with the cam?
You can get new lifters... But it recommended that they break in at the same time (kind of like ring and pinions)
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The cam has been on another car. Nothing wronk with it. Does that change anything? Are the lifters supposed to come with the cam?
get new lifters, still use breakin oil though just to be safe.
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Can you give me a link to lifters that are for me?
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www.rockauto.com
part number search and look for HT2011 ($5.27/lifter)
or go Jeep>your year of m/f>wrangler>2.5L>engine>valve lifters
EDIT: pushrods too p/n 1741001 at $2.52/piece
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I used Mopar Performance valve springs and retainers meant for a Magnum v8, no machining required:
Springs: p5249464
Retainers: 94529216
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So from wqhat I read. While doing the camshaft, I should also do the springs, retained, lifters and pushrods?
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So from wqhat I read. While doing the camshaft, I should also do the springs, retained, lifters and pushrods?
yes :thumb:
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yes :thumb:
How much are we talking for those extras?
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How much are we talking for those extras?
depends were you order from
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Where would i be best to order from?
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Where would i be best to order from?
really any reputable place is good. most of them keep the same parts. mainly dig up exactly what set up you want to run get all the part numbers then find the cheapest people to go with. if you order online check for shipping prices as well and you can also ask if they will ship basic mail. not as fast but can save you a bundle if your not in a hurry to get it..
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Best would be if anyone could tell me what to buy since I dont know what would be the right thing. Can you do that?
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Best would be if anyone could tell me what to buy since I dont know what would be the right thing. Can you do that?
we already told you the part numbers, did you read all the replies? (i gave you the lifters and pushrods and the link where to get them cheap from and Bounty listed the springs and retainers i believe) - anything else needed?
i can order them for you if you want, just PM me your credit card number :lol:
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we already told you the part numbers, did you read all the replies? (i gave you the lifters and pushrods and the link where to get them cheap from and Bounty listed the springs and retainers i believe) - anything else needed?
i can order them for you if you want, just PM me your credit card number :lol:
:thumb:
how much more hand holding do ya need?
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Hehe. Sorry for being a pain in the ass. Will search for this.
I need 4 of every part?
The ones you gave up, are they going to perform well together?
I try to find any info on the lifter fx and there is nothing said about it. Is it better than the stock one?
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Hehe. Sorry for being a pain in the ass. Will search for this.
I need 4 of every part?
The ones you gave up, are they going to perform well together?
I try to find any info on the lifter fx and there is nothing said about it. Is it better than the stock one?
this is for the lifters and pushrods:
you need 8 of each (you have 8 valves)
the lifters are stock, you don't need anything fancy since you are not going to spin the engine over 5500rpm (there are fast bleeding lifters for high rpm engines to prevent valve float, you don't need that) and the pushrods are just regular ones with stock length, same here unless you run high rate springs you don't need anything fancy, if you want to get something better comp cams has heat treated pushrods but they are pricey compared to these ones.
what's the lifter fx? not sure and didn't see that mentioned anywhere in this thread (could have missed it) if you had read this on another forum post a link so we can understand what you're referring to. but then again, you don't need a different lifter the sealed power or clevite ones will work just fine.
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So if I am not upgrading, what is the sense of changing since I am not having any problems with my engine? Or are you just saying I should do this since I am doing the cam.
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So if I am not upgrading, what is the sense of changing since I am not having any problems with my engine? Or are you just saying I should do this since I am doing the cam.
:brick:
The cam has been on another car. Nothing wronk with it. Does that change anything? Are the lifters supposed to come with the cam?
get new lifters, still use breakin oil though just to be safe.
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:brick:
[/li][/list]
get new lifters, still use breakin oil though just to be safe.
:O
I will get all the following new. Case closed :crap:
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:O
I will get all the following new. Case closed :crap:
:popcorn:[/list]
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Last question. How manu springs and retainers? Also 8?
This will then be handed over to my mechanic :P
I need 8 valve lifters and pushrods.
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I used Mopar Performance valve springs and retainers meant for a Magnum v8, no machining required:
Springs: p5249464
Retainers: 94529216
I found all the parts on summitracing but the retainers. What model and year should I be looking at?
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Do you have any videso of your cars running with different cams?
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Do you have any videso of your cars running with different cams?
jfrabat has a bunch of wheeling videos in the "On the Road and Hitting the Trails" section
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jfrabat has a bunch of wheeling videos in the "On the Road and Hitting the Trails" section
Here's a summary video:
https://www.youtube.com/v/RTL7ArXCTLM?version=3&hl=en_US&hd=1
Felipe
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I used Mopar Performance valve springs and retainers meant for a Magnum v8, no machining required:
Springs: p5249464
Retainers: 94529216
I have been searching for those retainers and cannt find this part number :/
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Sorry, must've been a typo on my part, look here: http://www.jegs.com/i/Mopar+Performance/312/P4529216/10002/-1
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this is for the lifters and pushrods:
you need 8 of each (you have 8 valves)
the lifters are stock, you don't need anything fancy since you are not going to spin the engine over 5500rpm (there are fast bleeding lifters for high rpm engines to prevent valve float, you don't need that) and the pushrods are just regular ones with stock length, same here unless you run high rate springs you don't need anything fancy, if you want to get something better comp cams has heat treated pushrods but they are pricey compared to these ones.
what's the lifter fx? not sure and didn't see that mentioned anywhere in this thread (could have missed it) if you had read this on another forum post a link so we can understand what you're referring to. but then again, you don't need a different lifter the sealed power or clevite ones will work just fine.
So I need 8 lifters 8 pushrods, 8 springs and 8 retainers
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So I need 8 lifters 8 pushrods, 8 springs and 8 retainers
Yes... 2 valves per cylinder means sets of 8.
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sounds like you should just get in contact with clifford performance in california. they could have answered all your questions and got you what you needed in 10 mins. they sell everthing in perfromace cam kits. you can have them make any cam you want and advise tou through what would work best for you and set you up with what you need. remember that the new cam is going to cause more pressure on those valve parts and that why you should replace your stock components.
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sounds like you should just get in contact with clifford performance in california. they could have answered all your questions and got you what you needed in 10 mins. they sell everthing in perfromace cam kits. you can have them make any cam you want and advise tou through what would work best for you and set you up with what you need. remember that the new cam is going to cause more pressure on those valve parts and that why you should replace your stock components.
Clifford seems to only be for the 6 cyl.
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So what you mean is that I should not be looking into getting some oem parts, but upgraded?
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clifford advertises the inline 6 stuff cause that is their nitche business, but they are the best place and the onlly place sometimes to get four cylinder parts. they made my camshaft and my entire valvetrain. my camshaft is more aggressive than any of the others i have seen on the market and at the time i did my motor built, they were the only ones that would even do the work. i called crane and lunati and all the cam companies and no one wanted to touch that motor
as for the stock parts, depends on how aggressive the cam is. my cam would destroy stock spings and locks. but if you are going with a cam that is not that aggressive you can get away with stock parts that are new as new will still be a strength increase over the worn stock parts that you have