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General Forums => The Mess Hall => Topic started by: neale_rs on January 25, 2012, 11:27:50 AM
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A quick question:
How well do Spicer 5-760x u-joints hold up with a front locker, alloy shafts, and 35" tires? I'll probably use them with 33" tires but may some day step up to 35"s.
If the Spicer joints would be kind of borderline, I would seriously consider getting some RCV shafts.
Thanks
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A quick question:
How well do Spicer 5-760x u-joints hold up with a front locker, alloy shafts, and 35" tires? I'll probably use them with 33" tires but may some day step up to 35"s.
If the Spicer joints would be kind of borderline, I would seriously consider getting some RCV shafts.
Thanks
The Spicer joints are the best off the shelf reasonable priced joint (IMO). They do hold up well. The alloy shafts come with full circle clips and that helps keep the caps in place much better than the C clips. The alloy shafts are much harder than stock shafts so the ears don't get egged out like the stockers. I wouldn't say they are border line. It all depends on how you drive and if the front gets wedged. Plus backing up in 4WD try to make sure the tires are pointed straight. Seems like the joints break much easier when the steering is turned. More so at full lock. I have seen more joints break backing up than going forward.
There are a couple of choices for middle of the road joints. J.E. Reel has a real nice joint that still has needle bearings. I ran those for a while before I went to the Bobby Long joints. The H20 proof from J.E. are or where around $80 each. They are a cold forged high alloy joint. They come pre-lubed with the same nasty sticky grease that the CTM's come with. It's real good stuff.
The other choice is Superior. They have a joint with needle bearings to. I don't know much about them and have not run them.
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Thanks for the great info. The JE Reel joints sound like a good way to go. I recently read about the new Superior joints but haven't been able to find them with any vendors. If u-joints will work fine, I'll probably scrap the RCV idea and save some $.
Thanks
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Thanks for the great info. The JE Reel joints sound like a good way to go. I recently read about the new Superior joints but haven't been able to find them with any vendors. If u-joints will work fine, I'll probably scrap the RCV idea and save some $.
Thanks
If you were going to go with the super premium joints the RCV's might be a bit cheaper. Prices vary on the cromo-shaft brands. The CTM's are a nice joint, but they sure have a hefty price tag. That is why I went with the Bobby Long joint. A fair amount cheaper, but still spendy!
I had all my stuff cryo'ed. Not sure if it helps or not. The research I did made me believe there was some gains in doing so. Since I was buying the parts as I could afford them, I waited until I had everything then sent it all off to be frozen. Including ball joints, lock outs, shafts,R&P's everything that could be frozen.
I think the J.E. Reel joints are cryo'ed. If you call Jim the owner answers the phone. He can tell you if they have or not. There web site is pretty poor. Jim is not much of a computer guy. But he will answer any question over the phone. He is a wealth of info!
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I don't know of any nearby cryo service around here, but if it's not too expensive it would be good to try. But with my 33s, I probably don't need all that much to run reliably. The reason for these questions is because I´m trying to finalize my front axle upgrade. It's now between build up the D30 or get a high pinion D44 that reuses the D30 outers. My 2 main objectives are not to give up the high pinion and to keep it very reliable with a front locker. Thanks again.
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My yellow TJ has seen plenty of trail abuse on 35's for several years and the Superior EVO's with the spicer 760 joins have held up fine
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I don't know of any nearby cryo service around here, but if it's not too expensive it would be good to try. But with my 33s, I probably don't need all that much to run reliably. The reason for these questions is because I´m trying to finalize my front axle upgrade. It's now between build up the D30 or get a high pinion D44 that reuses the D30 outers. My 2 main objectives are not to give up the high pinion and to keep it very reliable with a front locker. Thanks again.
Just use the 760's. They're cheap and you can carry spares if you're worried. I doubt you'll ever need them though.
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Lets keep all these similar questions in one theread since they don't really pertain to any one Member.
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Thanks, I'm just now getting around to a front locker.
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My yellow TJ has seen plenty of trail abuse on 35's for several years and the Superior EVO's with the spicer 760 joins have held up fine
This is good to know. There is an ARB, Superior shaft package that is actually about the cheapest way to go (at least down here in Monterrey). If it has worked fine for you, I think I'll just go with this.
Thanks for the recommendations.
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Thanks, I'm just now getting around to a front locker.
what kind?
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Most likely ARB.
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I'll mention some costs. RWK is offering a good deal.
The cost to get the parts for the D30 build down here to Monterrey would be about $2454 USD. This is with an ARB and RCV shafts, the way I originally planned on building the D30.
RWK is offereing a high pinion D44 housing with a Yukon Zip Locker and Yukon alloy shafts for $2800 USD. It would then cost extra to get it down here, not sure how much, still looking into it.
So it is not a direct comparison, but you can see the costs are not that different.
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The shipping to the border would be about $265 USD. RWK also offered an additional $300 discount if I send back the inner Cs.
Another factor to consider is that I could get a bit more $ back from selling the D30 4.56 gears, the open differential carrier and the axle shafts.
It turns out the RWK axle would actually be shipped from Currie. So it sounds like it should be a quality housing build.
Another advantage is that I could install this axle at home and not have to pay for the locker/gear installation labor.
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The shipping to the border would be about $265 USD. RWK also offered an additional $300 discount if I send back the inner Cs.
Another factor to consider is that I could get a bit more $ back from selling the D30 4.56 gears, the open differential carrier and the axle shafts.
It turns out the RWK axle would actually be shipped from Currie. So it sounds like it should be a quality housing build.
Another advantage is that I could install this axle at home and not have to pay for the locker/gear installation labor.
Just so you're aware, Currie reuses old housings. Not that there is anything bad about it but it's something to be aware of.
If it's coming from Currie, then have you checked Currie's prices as well?
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The housing would be used but, is there any way (except Dynatrac) to get a new HP D44 center? Well, I guess a JK axle...but that has the small tube diameter.
I got a quote from Currie and it was $3600 and they did not include the outer axle shafts, although an ARB brand locker was being quoted... so maybe about $3300.
The Dynatrac quote was $4600 with ARB and RCV shafts so maybe $3600 with just Dynatrac inner shafts. About the same as Currie but with many advantages: stronger inner Cs, brand new housing with ProRock higher ground clearance, 8.8 inch ring gear, and heavy duty diff cover. Dynatrac really outmatched Currie on this quote.
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Finally got this on order!
The final choice was the EV30YJ-ARB package deal from Superior. This includes the ARB and Evolution series shafts with Spicer 5-760 u-joints. The inner shafts are 30 spline, which I wanted to avoid, but a local 4x4 shop got a price that just blew away any other option. It ended up being a bit less than the price advertised on Superior's web page, including importation and shipping to Monterrey. Sometimes things just fall in place nicely, even the exchange rate moved in my favor recently!
Just as a side comment: A fellow Jeeper here recently built his JK D30 with RCV shafts and the first time out on a hard trail, broke the ring and pinion. So maybe it's better to have the 5-760 u-joints in place to act as a fuse.
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Finally got this on order!
The final choice was the EV30YJ-ARB package deal from Superior. This includes the ARB and Evolution series shafts with Spicer 5-760 u-joints. The inner shafts are 30 spline, which I wanted to avoid, but a local 4x4 shop got a price that just blew away any other option. It ended up being a bit less than the price advertised on Superior's web page, including importation and shipping to Monterrey. Sometimes things just fall in place nicely, even the exchange rate moved in my favor recently!
Just as a side comment: A fellow Jeeper here recently built his JK D30 with RCV shafts and the first time out on a hard trail, broke the ring and pinion. So maybe it's better to have the 5-760 u-joints in place to act as a fuse.
You can put your fuse at the axle U-joints OR the driveshaft U-joints. Or do both. U-joints are a lot easier to fix then anything else that could go wrong.
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I agree. Based on the JK D30 experience, this would rule out Spicer u-joints in the front DS. Would have to go with something weaker.
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I agree. Based on the JK D30 experience, this would rule out Spicer u-joints in the front DS. Would have to go with something weaker.
I don't think you have to downgrade to anything less then a standard Spicer.
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I don't think you have to downgrade to anything less then a standard Spicer.
That is very likely true for a rear axle but...
Any time a D30 ring and pinion breaks (assuming it was in good shape to begin with), it shows that the DS u-joints and the axle u-joints were stronger than the R&P in the given situation.
For a front axle with 4.56 gears, if both front tires are bound up, the DS u-joint would need to have at most 1/(4.56/2) = 43.9 % the strength of the axle u-joints. If only one front tire is bound up (with a locker), the DS u-joint would need to have at most 1/4.56 = 21.9 % the strength of the axle u-joints. They would need to be pretty weak DS u-joints, so I still think a downgrade would be needed to make the DS u-joint a reliable fuse for the front axle.
A reliable DS u-joint fuse might also be obtained by relying on axle wrap. So this might be accomplished with a low pinion front axle, a single cardan DS, and a really tall lift.
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I did some hammer trails with 4.88 gears, 4 to1 transfercase 35" 13.5" wide krawler tires and all spicer U joints, this setup is reliable for wheelin unless of course you are determined to put a whole lot of stupid in your wheelin adventures. This whole fuse thing is way overblow. Crawl rocks. don't do a lot of wheel hopping and things will live for a long time
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I would agree with Art. Build everything with the best parts you can afford. Drive like you have more than 6 brain cells and things will be just fine. Everything has it's limits it's knowing them, and living within them. R&P don't break that easily if they are set up right. I have seen a number of them break, but most of it was due to the driver making poor choices. Peoples ego's break more parts than anything.
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That is very likely true for a rear axle but...
Any time a D30 ring and pinion breaks (assuming it was in good shape to begin with), it shows that the DS u-joints and the axle u-joints were stronger than the R&P in the given situation.
For a front axle with 4.56 gears, if both front tires are bound up, the DS u-joint would need to have at most 1/(4.56/2) = 43.9 % the strength of the axle u-joints. If only one front tire is bound up (with a locker), the DS u-joint would need to have at most 1/4.56 = 21.9 % the strength of the axle u-joints. They would need to be pretty weak DS u-joints, so I still think a downgrade would be needed to make the DS u-joint a reliable fuse for the front axle.
A reliable DS u-joint fuse might also be obtained by relying on axle wrap. So this might be accomplished with a low pinion front axle, a single cardan DS, and a really tall lift.
I'm with Art. I wouldn't go out of my way to replace the Spicers and to say that they are too strong is a bit much. They're a good balance and unless you're adding a lot of stupid to the equation, this shouldn't be an issue. Things do break and not always at the fuse.
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We're all with Art. Nothing beats keeping a level head and building the Jeep properly. I have no intention to downgrade my DS u-joints (I doubt something as weak as needed to serve as a reliable fuse for the front axle at the DS is even available....maybe it could be done by cutting into it on purpose.) but just saying that if you are going to design a fuse it has to be done right, with real calculations so it actually has a chance of working for you.
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Talking about that that is why good axle shafts for the dana 30 are of a different diam to make sure they flex equal. In other words they are made that way so the short one flexes and takes equal load as the longer one
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That's one of the great features of the Superior Evolution shafts. It's good to see that kind of design detail go into a product.