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General Forums => The Mess Hall => Topic started by: 4banged on February 07, 2012, 06:02:10 PM
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Has anyone upgraded their single hole injectors to the newer 4 hole ones? There's a good YouTube video showing the difference and I spoke to fiveomotorsports and he thinks they make one that will fit my 03 2.4l for $175 for the set (he's doublechecking and said he'd call me back tomorrow). They are way better at atomizing the fuel and with 115k on my jeep its probably a good idea to do it anyway.
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Has anyone upgraded their single hole injectors to the newer 4 hole ones? There's a good YouTube video showing the difference and I spoke to fiveomotorsports and he thinks they make one that will fit my 03 2.4l for $175 for the set (he's doublechecking and said he'd call me back tomorrow). They are way better at atomizing the fuel and with 115k on my jeep its probably a good idea to do it anyway.
Overall, the 4 hole injectors do atomize better. It's for a 2.5L but a 2.4L will probably be a little different depending on what the injector looks like. http://4bangerjp.com/forums/index.php/topic,3479.0.html If you can get the spec on the stock injector. FSM should say what it is. Then all you have to do it match up an injector with it. You can also up the flow rate a little while you're at it.
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the 2.4L is a new motor (design wise, that includes the fuel injection components), i wouldn't mess with the injectors, they're as modern and as good as you can get, i doubt that you'll find an injector that would give you any improvements just based on design, more flow maybe but that's about it.
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here's the YouTube link. Check it out...its pretty impressive.
http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?desktop_uri=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DbHf-6ohkgbA%26noredirect%3D1&noredirect=1&v=bHf-6ohkgbA&gl=US
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here's the YouTube link. Check it out...its pretty impressive.
http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?desktop_uri=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DbHf-6ohkgbA%26noredirect%3D1&noredirect=1&v=bHf-6ohkgbA&gl=US
No Injectors there.
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No Injectors there.
I think its a great comparison... Could it be faked? Sure, but I don't think they would have to...I would expect a fairly noticeable difference in spray patterns between single hole and quad hole injectors. I'm seeing threads on other jeep forums with good results ... Apparently you can pull these off certain neons at junkyard.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bHf-6ohkgbA
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I think its a great comparison... Could it be faked? Sure, but I don't think they would have to...I would expect a fairly noticeable difference in spray patterns between single hole and quad hole injectors. I'm seeing threads on other jeep forums with good results ... Apparently you can pull these off certain neons at junkyard.
it's not fake it's a comparison between bad injectors and good ones, not 4 and 1 hole comparison (although the bad ones were 1 hole)
like it's been said the 4 hole would atomize better but the difference is not what that guy shows you, the comparison is obviously biased to promote what he's selling
here for some examples on how the single hole would spray
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3D-RJ0ivv4k
http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&v=kHJSRpE5ok4
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it's not fake it's a comparison between bad injectors and good ones, not 4 and 1 hole comparison (although the bad ones were 1 hole)
like it's been said the 4 hole would atomize better but the difference is not what that guy shows you, the comparison is obviously biased to promote what he's selling
here for some examples on how the single hole would spray
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3D-RJ0ivv4k
http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&v=kHJSRpE5ok4
Okay, I definitely see your point now . . . there's really not that much difference from the clean 1 hole injectors compared to the 4 holes. The ones that guy was showing looked like a squirt gun tight stream (very deceiving). I'll have to think about spending the $175 now. I'd love to see some research showing how well injectors spray after 100K miles though (I add injector cleaner once in awhile but who knows if that works?).
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Okay, I definitely see your point now . . . there's really not that much difference from the clean 1 hole injectors compared to the 4 holes. The ones that guy was showing looked like a squirt gun tight stream (very deceiving). I'll have to think about spending the $175 now. I'd love to see some research showing how well injectors spray after 100K miles though (I add injector cleaner once in awhile but who knows if that works?).
you are going to see an improvement with new injectors no matter what the design is. Sometimes (and in your case this is my belief for the 2.4L motor) the a different spray pattern might affect the engine running adversely, for example the spray cone can be wider on the 4 hole injectors and can be meant for larger or different shape intake runners, in that case it could affect the flow of atomized fuel into the cylinder (all this is speculation, i don't have any first hand info to compare) - my 2 cents.
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Sharpxman your right about the spray patterns. You could have a wider pattern that would re-condense the fuel onto the runners in the manifold or even on the on the valve itself. The spray patterns are sometimes given if you go to the injector manufactors spec sheet. Also check the cc number and make sure its not less than you need. Don't go by color go only by part number. I've got some Ford 19#ers that will burn a 2.5L to the ground they run so lean.
good luck with which ever one you decide on,
JR
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you are going to see an improvement with new injectors no matter what the design is. Sometimes (and in your case this is my belief for the 2.4L motor) the a different spray pattern might affect the engine running adversely, for example the spray cone can be wider on the 4 hole injectors and can be meant for larger or different shape intake runners, in that case it could affect the flow of atomized fuel into the cylinder (all this is speculation, i don't have any first hand info to compare) - my 2 cents.
Good Point I just found out about. My Harley originally Came with a 8 Deg cone. They had Major Problems at Idle and surging under way. They changed them out to 25 Deg that was the only change and the Problem was solved.
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I may be wrong But believe that the 2.4 already comes with a 4 hole inj.
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if it's a Denso the ford design III won't be any better
DENSO Technology – Leading the World
•In 1999, DENSO introduced the world’s first 12-hole (opening) fuel injector (C60) – successfully reducing the atomized particle size to 65 µm.
•In 2002, DENSO introduced a UC injector with uniquely shaped fuel injection openings. These fuel injection openings reduce the fuel spray particle size to 50 µm.
the Denso P/N is listed as 297-0034 but i can't find any specific info on it and dunno if that's the OEM one or not.
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I may be wrong But believe that the 2.4 already comes with a 4 hole inj.
I'm trying to find out what the factory injectors are...this 2.4l is the red headed step child...not much info anywhere on it. It's like area 51 ... We know it exists but not much accurate info on it! Lol
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I'm trying to find out what the factory injectors are...this 2.4l is the red headed step child...not much info anywhere on it. It's like area 51 ... We know it exists but not much accurate info on it! Lol
It's not a red-headed step child when you look outside the small Jeep community.
1995–2000 Chrysler Cirrus
1995–2006 Chrysler Sebring
1995–2006 Dodge Stratus
1996-2007 Dodge Caravan
2002–2005 Jeep Liberty
2003-2006 Jeep Wrangler
1996-2000 Plymouth Voyager
1996–2000 Plymouth Breeze
2001-2010 Chrysler PT Cruiser
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See the cost of Just one Injector for that thing, we could buy a whole set twice.
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denso $110
Omix-Ada $190
for 1 injector...
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Good Point I just found out about. My Harley originally Came with a 8 Deg cone. They had Major Problems at Idle and surging under way. They changed them out to 25 Deg that was the only change and the Problem was solved.
This may be a good example of what we're talking about here. Your original -06 p/n 8* injectors were 3 hole. The replacement -06a p/n 25* injectors are either 4 or 6 hole(can't remember which). Plus, when these were replaced, they should've reflashed the ecm. The reason being, you actually need less fuel with the 25* injectors because of the better spray pattern.
A little bit of a thread jack, but I think it pertains.
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This may be a good example of what we're talking about here. Your original -06 p/n 8* injectors were 3 hole. The replacement -06a p/n 25* injectors are either 4 or 6 hole(can't remember which). Plus, when these were replaced, they should've reflashed the ecm. The reason being, you actually need less fuel with the 25* injectors because of the better spray pattern.
A little bit of a thread jack, but I think it pertains.
i don't think it's less fuel, probably different flow rate so would require different duty cycles - just a guess though.
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Hey, stop jacking my thread! Lol :-)
I ended up ordering a new set of 4 hole injectors from fiveomotorsports for $180...they made sure it matches up to the oem flow rate, size and connector so should be simple swap. This is approximately the same cost as factory remanfactured set of the 1 hole on rock auto. Like I said, its the last part of my tune up so not really a performance mod...more of maintenance (my justification ;-).
Thanks for all the input guys. I'll let you know how I like them ... Should at least get some placebo effect ;-)
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Well I have a 92 jeep wrangler and I pulled the injectors out of a 93 lincoln Towncar I think a 5.7L and I played a bit of hell getting them in the fuel rail but once they went in and I started the jeep up it sounded throatier and felt like it responded better. This works well from what I know only if you have other mods to your engine or intake and exhaust setup. I like it and I recommend it.
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Well I have a 92 jeep wrangler and I pulled the injectors out of a 93 lincoln Towncar I think a 5.7L and I played a bit of hell getting them in the fuel rail but once they went in and I started the jeep up it sounded throatier and felt like it responded better. This works well from what I know only if you have other mods to your engine or intake and exhaust setup. I like it and I recommend it.
Good to hear. I've got every 2.4l mod available (cold air intake, jet stage 2 chip, 180 deg thermostat, Accel coil, 8mm wires, pulsar plugs, cat back exhaust). The guy said these 4 hole injectors are a stage one upgrade to take advantage of the mods I have so I'm looking forward to getting them in.
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Finally found what I was looking for You are going from 4 hole to 4 hole.
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You're right! I was trying to find that out before I ordered and couldn't. I'm returning them . . . they would have been a real bitch to install on this motor. Thanks!
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You're right! I was trying to find that out before I ordered and couldn't. I'm returning them . . . they would have been a real bitch to install on this motor. Thanks!
http://www.standardbrand.com/Online%20Catalogs-eCatalog/Content.aspx
select vehicle and fuel injector or click on Part number search tab and type in FJ605
it's a 4 hole
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http://www.standardbrand.com/Online%20Catalogs-eCatalog/Content.aspx
select vehicle and fuel injector or click on Part number search tab and type in FJ605
it's a 4 hole
Wish the guy I ordered from told me that...he is taking them back so I'm not too upset. I would have installed them anyway if the fuel rail wasn't hidden behind the air intake manifold... Very happy not to be doing this (bolts are in places only a magician could get to!).
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Wish the guy I ordered from told me that...he is taking them back so I'm not too upset. I would have installed them anyway if the fuel rail wasn't hidden behind the air intake manifold... Very happy not to be doing this (bolts are in places only a magician could get to!).
at least you didn't take a loss, i think the consensus here is that the 2.4L has good injectors already so quality isn't really an issue (it is the case with the older 2.5L which is what all the hipe is about regarding these design III injectors)
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My bad. I thought you had a 2.5L so what I said was pretty much worthless. Attention to detail I guess!