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General Forums => The Mess Hall => Topic started by: moparstroup on March 27, 2012, 10:03:08 PM
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i just installed a rimmer supercharger on my 2.5l TJ. installing split second ftc-1 but you need R4 software loaded on your laptop to program the new maps . would any body outhere running s/c or turbo have a copy of the R4 that they could email me? i would greatly appriciate it. cant wait to finish this so i can get on the bypass an turn my 33's 65 mph without the aid of a drafting partner!
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i just installed a rimmer supercharger on my 2.5l TJ. installing split second ftc-1 but you need R4 software loaded on your laptop to program the new maps . would any body outhere running s/c or turbo have a copy of the R4 that they could email me? i would greatly appriciate it. cant wait to finish this so i can get on the bypass an turn my 33's 65 mph without the aid of a drafting partner!
i should have a copy but i can't remember what size it is (i'm surprized yours did not came with a CD) - could be too big to email, i'll dig in the garage but not sure when i can do it (next few days).
do you have stock gears with those 33s? and if yes do you account for the difference at the speedo due to larger size tires (did you get the correct speedo gear?) - you should be able to do 65 in 4th gear witout any problems and without the supercharger.
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actually i do have stock gears and do use only 4th gear and yeah i can go 65 but i live in the mountains so it labors some. i know i need to regear but i just couldnt pass up the super charger project and road2damscus treated my right on price. hes a good guy. i emailed split second about the base map for 4.5lbs of boost with max rpm of 5250 and they sent it to me today. they said they could email me the r4 software for 50.00. but i was hoping that someone had it and could copy it and email it to me. you have been very kind in offering to try. that what 4bangerjp forums are for right? jeep guys helping out jeep guys. i know i am looking forward to sharing this exsperience with other people interested in trying this. i could never find anyone out there who did this and got the drivebility bugs out of it. i hope to be they guy who gets it right eventually. hey while your here the small line that runs along side the fuel supply line. is that for return. on my jeep is is just an open line due to 00TJ's are returnless. if this is an unused return line and not some sort of vent then my regulator problems are handled
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have any idea whet # plug is 2 heatranges colder? according to napa they would go from a heat range of 12 to 10 but no one supposedly makes that plug. emailed champion today waiting on an answer from them.
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have any idea whet # plug is 2 heatranges colder? according to napa they would go from a heat range of 12 to 10 but no one supposedly makes that plug. emailed champion today waiting on an answer from them.
i bought mine from a Marine supplier (NGK something, i'll have to check what they are and let you know) - they were $4 each or something like that.
EDIT:
NGK ZFR7F
two heat ranges colder? napa says no one make it. that would be a champion plug with a heat range of 10 compared to 12 but they tell me champion does not make it. emailed champion waiting to hear. do you know a part number that would work in any brand?
the heat range goes backwards, so 7 is colder than 6 and so on, the one i posted above is the 2 ranges cooler vs stock NGK (at least that's what i remember, bought them a while ago).
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actually i do have stock gears and do use only 4th gear and yeah i can go 65 but i live in the mountains so it labors some. i know i need to regear but i just couldnt pass up the super charger project and road2damscus treated my right on price. hes a good guy. i emailed split second about the base map for 4.5lbs of boost with max rpm of 5250 and they sent it to me today. they said they could email me the r4 software for 50.00. but i was hoping that someone had it and could copy it and email it to me. you have been very kind in offering to try. that what 4bangerjp forums are for right? jeep guys helping out jeep guys. i know i am looking forward to sharing this exsperience with other people interested in trying this. i could never find anyone out there who did this and got the drivebility bugs out of it. i hope to be they guy who gets it right eventually. hey while your here the small line that runs along side the fuel supply line. is that for return. on my jeep is is just an open line due to 00TJ's are returnless. if this is an unused return line and not some sort of vent then my regulator problems are handled
PM your email address, i'll send you the software
EDIT: sent you a PM with a download link, so no need for your email.
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hi sharp, i nstalled ftc and installed base map they sent me did altitude correction, but jeep runs horrible and has ever since i removed regulator. the regulator was not installed correctly but it did drop fuel pressure. ( supply line was attached to return port but gauge was reading 32 lbs) and vehicle idled fine and took throttle ok as best i can remember) the next change was removing the regulator that was not for returnless fuel and i broke the tps sensor by accident. replaced tps and started vehicle and check engine light was on and wouldnt idle and wont take throttle, tried to take it out on the road wont take throttle and bucks and jerks around 2k under load and under boost it smells like raw fuel and didnt run right at all. next installed ftc-1 and downloaded and installed the 6 psi base map they sent me and did the correction for altitude that it uses for map reference with engine off. road tested almost exactly the same. runs horrible, impossible to drive. wont take fuel (feels like stepping on throttle with choke plates closed on a carb engine. 2k stumble to flat out fuel cut sensation. only time the engine runs in any resemblence of normal is if you feather throttle to 1500 prm or so with no load. took a couple data recordings. it just doesnt seem like it should run this bad with the base map installed. is it normal to run this bad? jfrom what i read on the tuning papers on ftc site it seems like this point should be fine tuning. i feel like somthing is causing it to run this bad and i would be trying to correct more than what the ftc is made for.
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you removed the stock map sensor (unplug the connector)?
edit: you might want to check and see if there's something else going on also, are you sure the new tps is working properly? I would maybe skip the timing feature first and focus on fuel (connect the crank sensor wire directly to PCM and bypass the ftc1), and also if it still does it put back the MAP wire and use the stock injectors - while doing so drive it without boost, if it does not run properly then there's something else going on which you should fix first. Reset the computer and see what codes are stored after that, fix the problem then reconnect the ftc1.
I would also monitor the MAP output from ftc1, if you have a vac pump (the cheap ones used for bleeding the brakes, i got one from harbor freight for $12 or so) you can connect it to the vac port on the ftc and check the output MAP voltage progressively, in your case should be something like 3.3v at 0 and go to about 0.6 or around there at -20inhg vacuum. if all that checks out then you're off to do some tuning. put the scanner on and see what your fuel trims look like (and check the codes also, should tell you if it's too rich or what else is going on). Don't use the enricher yet until you narrow down the base map.
edit2:
how did you connect the vac/boost port on FTC1? post some pics and details of your install, not saying you did something wrong but if it's not connected properly won't work so maybe go over the install and connections again.
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update. i connected it to port on the bottom side of the s/c, i tried it off of one of the ports on the back but didnt really change much. i measured the voltage comming out of tps and its 1.0 volt at idle and and 4.9 at wot. thought closed throttle was too high at 1.0v but i got a second sensor and it read the same. then went to the salvage yard and removed one and it also read 1 volt. service manual says .4 or so but i seem to remember the comuter reads differently than dvm backprobed in the connector. hooked up a/f ratio gauge and it does toggle while idling but when you stab the throttle it goes dead lean and chug a lugs. didnt drive it yet and watch it. i will take pics and post to see if you see anything. previous owner said that for him the ftc/enrichner didnt have enough of a range of componsation for him. i took the back off of the enrichner and he had all dials turned the whole way to the lean side. i didnt hook it up yet because i wasnt sure where to cut the signal wires that were already cut when installing ftc. i agree i think something else is wrong but i cant see it. i will get a scan tool this week and see if i can find something
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not sure what you mean by the bottom of the supercharger, your ftc1 should have the vac line straight to the intake manifold (below the supercharger). also, did you unplug the stock MAP. the test with the voltage i explained in previous post was for the MAP voltage output from FTC. you will need a wideband, the narrowband gauge is just informational, and you should also have a fuel pressure gauge preferably installed in the cab somewhere so you can monitor it when drive it. did you installed the 30lb injectors? can't see why it's that lean though, but then again it could be just slightly lean and your narrowband can't tell, at that point you might just need some slight adjustment in FTC.
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sorry intake manifold, according to the rimmer instructions that is where it can see boost and vac. although the instructions for tj say vac port as opposed to some other vehicles that say vac / boost. did not unplug map but the wire is cut and open at the sensor side. the part that kills me is it doesnt run any different with or without ftc when not under boost. also the s/c vibrates when making boost only. gas pedal vibrates like a vibrator. did you isolate the throttle linkage with rubber bushings or anything? i was carefull to solder and heat shrink all conections. the only other thing i can remember is i replaced vac lines to several pieces but i dont think i could have done anything to cause it what it is doing now. cant hear any vac leaks. also i think i told you this but the s/c was rebuilt 5k miles ago . yes on the 30lb injectors. got a wideband and monitor for it,i assume you dont replace the narrow band but drill hole and weld in bung and add it. is that right? i will check the ftc map voltage and get back to you. thanks again sharp
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sorry intake manifold, according to the rimmer instructions that is where it can see boost and vac. although the instructions for tj say vac port as opposed to some other vehicles that say vac / boost. did not unplug map but the wire is cut and open at the sensor side. the part that kills me is it doesnt run any different with or without ftc when not under boost. also the s/c vibrates when making boost only. gas pedal vibrates like a vibrator. did you isolate the throttle linkage with rubber bushings or anything? i was carefull to solder and heat shrink all conections. the only other thing i can remember is i replaced vac lines to several pieces but i dont think i could have done anything to cause it what it is doing now. cant hear any vac leaks. also i think i told you this but the s/c was rebuilt 5k miles ago . yes on the 30lb injectors. got a wideband and monitor for it,i assume you dont replace the narrow band but drill hole and weld in bung and add it. is that right? i will check the ftc map voltage and get back to you. thanks again sharp
yes, you weld a bung and add the wideband sensor.
when you say it vibrates, could that be maybe running in 3 cylinders? ans also, did you take out the timing feature of the FTC (leave the crank signal unchanged). i would put back the stock injectors, reconnect the stock map sensor and drive it without boost, then if it runs right you know it's related to ftc or injectors, if it runs the same then it's something else.
as far as throttle goes, you shouldn't have to do anything, but you to make sure the bracket that holds the sleeve is firmly tightened and that is not binding anywhere (if you anchored it to the body somewhere and not to the motor can do what you describe).
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update : ok i think i got something i can work with now. just for the heck of it i jacked the fuel curve up to about 20.0 then at 3k and in boost the full 25.0 and the off idle bog is gone and most of the bucking and jerking is gone. still goes lean under boost wich is understandable without the enrichner. all i wanted is some baseline that i could work with. threads are damaged on wideband so be a few days till i do any real accurate attempts at mapping. the only thing that bothers me is why with bigger injectors and higher pressures i would have to richen it up so much. anyway thank you for all your help so far and i will chime in again soon.
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did you check the fuel pressure? not sure why you need to add so much enrichment, doesn't sound right unless all that is in closed loop, but it should still run ok so who knows what's with those injectors. I would look for a set of 32lb/hr at junkyard and work from there (they don't have to be perfect but can be a good test platform if they are decent, if it runs better then you can look for a set of good ones). Since i saw you mentioned 6psi of boost I think you can even go 34 since you have no boost reference for fuel pressure (it means the injectors will be operating at 43 psi at full boost)
get the wideband in and then you'll know more, I'd be interested in hearing how things progress, good luck and keep us posted.
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oh gosh sharp i feel like an idiot. i contacted the original owner and he said that he forgot that he took the 30lb ford racing injectors out and installed 23/24 lb injectors in it. i guess that explains why things are leaner than they should be. now that i have a wideband took pipe off yesterday welding in new bung and reinstalling tomarrow i will be able to start mapping correctly. i guess i should take them out and reinstall the 30lb ford injectors though huh. in mapping with wideband i assume thats done in open loop. i asked him why he took out the 30lb ones. i will let you know why when he chimes back in.
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that explains it :lol:
you do the mapping in open loop to start with. Once you add the enricher you do it for closed loop. did you get the colder spark plugs?
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yes colder by 2 the ones you recomended. i detonated once while running poorly with left over 87 octane, put premium in it and hasnt detonated since. dont run it much because it runs so bad. do you have the same intake i have? the injector rail, it seems to be attached in such a way that the entire intake would need removed in order to change injectors.
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yes colder by 2 the ones you recomended. i detonated once while running poorly with left over 87 octane, put premium in it and hasnt detonated since. dont run it much because it runs so bad. do you have the same intake i have? the injector rail, it seems to be attached in such a way that the entire intake would need removed in order to change injectors.
i have the stock intake bored out to 64mm, mine was not a bolt-on, all parts are custom made except for the supercharger core. i am using a TJ fuel rail with a dampener on it but basically the same as the stock one otherwise.
did you relocate the air temp sensor (or where is it located on this kit)? should be before the supercharger or at the inlet right below the t/b at least.
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yes i did relocate it.
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for open loop am i only adjusting at idle on first start or do i force it to run in open loop by disconecting narrow band o2. i read a good article on tuning with split second and basically they said map open loop idle,then closed loop, then wot open loop last. they didnt make it clear on how to map open loop though. on its own it wouldnt stay in open loop long. could you explain how to map open loop. the other thing is the artical basically read like mapping the closed loop part was just getting the adaptives as close to 0 as possible because the computer is gonna lean it out to where it wants to be anyway. i dont see what the ftc accomplishes then for keeping things rich enough. they recomended about 12:1 on open loop. do you agree? my drb scan tool did not pan out so i am gonna order a scan tool that works through the laptop, obd br-3 for about 100.00 seems like it will work out. im telling you a buch of stuff so if you see something out of wack i hope you will tell me. one thing i noticed is when i reinstalled the base map 2 things caught my attention. on initial start wideband was toggleing around 12.5 to 13.0 afr. and runs a little rough. runs much better at idle around 11.5 or so.. and when i touch the throttle it misses and goes to 16.00 on afr (not sure if it is closed loop or not since i dont have a scan tool yet but it was only running 1-2 min when i saw this) also a 2k rpm it does the same thing studders and goes to 16:1 . why do you think when running 30# ford racing injectors at a calculated 45 lbs of fuel pressure that my map is at 10.7 in the idle range with 20hg vac (slightly on the richer side of neutral . it seems to be too lean atleast it runs rough and running it richer smooths it out at idle. the previous owner said that they were way overkill but it doesnt seem that way to me at this point. i would think that i would be taking fuel away at idle not adding it. we did agree that these injectors should flow more fuel than the stock ones didnt we? looking for something i can do till i get a scan tool. am i stuck or can i do something in the mean time? thanks sharp
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it doesn't make much sense to run better at 11.5AFR at idle.
are you 100% positive that wideband displays correctly?
closed loop: basically the way the PCM is programmed it has a base fuel table just like the FTC and using the O2 feedback it takes away or adds duty cycle to the injectors (reduces or increases the time the injectors are open) in order to achieve 14.7 AFR. When you add the FTC the MAP sensor voltage output and the size of the injectors is different, so you could unplug the O2 sensor and will force your PCM to operate based on the preset table, reset the PCM and then tweak your cells to get as close as possible to 14.7 when you are not in boost or close to boost and then alter the output progressively to try and achieve 12.5AFR at your max boost (should be fine since your max boost is 5psi). Once that's completed reconnect your O2 sensor, your fuel trims should be minimal for the range at which you targeted 14.7AFR. After that you can connect your enricher so you're adding fuel to be lower than 14.7 starting somewhere at -5inHg let's say for the sake of argument. that should be it for fuel. For idle, -20inHg vacuum and closed throttle 14.7 AFR is just fine, should not run any better at 11AFR and once you did that calibration above and have the O2 sensor plugged in should always stay at that value at idle. If it doesn't then it's either the wideband not displaying the correct value or maybe those injectors are no good (squirting instead of atomizing the fuel).
could also be something else going on, it somehow sounds like the MAP sensor output (from FTC) varies very little if any (16AFR) , you don't have some check valve on that line or maybe make sure the fitting or line is not plugged. You could monitor that output from the FTC to make sure it varies according to the change in vac/boost.
the other thing is that if you're trying to do this with the hood open and revving the engine forget it, the PCM will pick a high to low vac condition (engine break) and will lean out the mixture intentionally, it's just meant to operate that way (when you open the throttle the vac will go towards the zero quickly but as soon as the rpm goes up will drop). holding it at a constant 2000rpm should resume the AFR to 14.7 though.
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no i am not sure. everything i got has been wrong. i did the calibration and it seems to be working but for one thing it never goes above 16.00. dont know if that is right. i just feel like i am missing something. previous owner said it ran fine except for this 2000 rpm stumble. nothing seems to make sense. i am not sure but i thought when i put the supercharger on and initially started it i thought it ran fine as far as idle and taking fuel. there is norestriction in the vac line to ftc map sensor. i told you about the tps that broke. i was sure that was what caused everything but i tried 3 different sensors and none made a difference. even if wideband was wrong it doesnt make sense that a slightly richer base map with bigger injectors would run leaner than the stock engine with stock programming. i agree injectors could be it but that would mean both sets were bad. i am going to see if these injectors have any numbers on them to make sure they are what they are supposed to be although the previous owner seems very intellegent and doubt he would have done something so wrong. i did not bypass timing map by reconnecting crank wire because it is all 0's (no change right) not reving engine in N took it for a ride around the block. stalled 5 timeswhen pulling out had to give it throttle to restart. never got to boost at all just trying to drive like grandma. i know i sound like a newbee but ive run a jeep dealer service dept for almost 20 years. i need a scan tool but this whole thing doesnt make sense unless i made a mistake somewhere along the line but i cant find it. i will check map voltages like you said but with or without ftc in the equation it runs the same in no load un boosted condition, unless the fuel is jacked way up. way way up. any chance there could be a internal problem with the s/c that could cause this?
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no problem with the supercharger that can cause this, if you have boost it works, everything else is air to fuel ratio
you should never be over 15 AFR, so 16 is out of the question.
what you need to do is to monitor the FTC MAP sensor output values in relation to vac/boost. The fact that the AFR goes lean with all the values maxed out like you describe means that either your fuel pressure is way low, the injectors are not what they say they are or the map sensor voltage to PCM is wrong (too low or not changing). so at idle you should have 0.6v or so, at max boost (5PSI for the sake of argument) should be about 4.7v or around that value, at 0 should be roughly 4.7*(14.7/(14.7+5))=3.5v, at -10inHg the should be about 2.3v (these are not the exact values but to give you a reference point) - all this is with the 5psi base map and not with the values jacked up, this way you can confirm that the FTC map functions correctly and if all these voltages check out then your fuel delivery is the problem (either pressure or injectors). Do this test and then you know what to focus on, with 30# injectors and the base map it makes absolutely no sense you get 16AFR with no boost, just doesn't add up but given that you get 11.5 AFR at idle to me it sounds like your MAP sensor voltage is off - i would just have a couple of wires ran from the stock map senseor connector into the cab and hook them up to a multimeter and just monitor it while driving, should give you a good indication of how much it varies, if without boost you're between 0.7 to 3.5 and about 2.3 or so at -10Hg then it works fine and you're in for some injector testing.
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ok went back out and showed my son what it was doing and he showed me that it was reading 10 psi boost at idle. the whole map seemed to be corrupted. all the other ones started with like -25 hg to over 5 lbs boost. something was definitly wrong like file was corrupted. thought i was seeing an ftc map voltage issue but i dont think so. reloaded the base map and the numbers began to make sense 14.2 idleing ok leaning out under boost to the point it would missfire... that last post was altogether wrong. i thought i was looking at =20 hg column due to its placement on the graph but it actually said 10psi. wasnt wearing my glasses. again thank you so much for alll the help and info but it seems i am on the right track now. i will chime in in a few days and let you know how things are progressing. im sure your thinking you dumb @#$ i just should have been more thorough before i asked you for help. thanks again when this is over i am gonna owe you big time.
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cool, glad you got that sorted out - keep us posted, i enjoyed it. Looking forward to updates.
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been doing some open loop mapping. got another issue. 2000 rpm it breifly goes into fuel cut. it does it worse the more load the engine is under. does it no load too but you cant feel it. i originally thought it was just a lean spot in the graph but no matter how high i raise it the afm spikes to 15-16 and engine bucks. once you get past that rpm it runs normally till you get to boost then it leans out (no enricher) i understand that part. got any ideas? i am thinking the computer is seing a varience because of the original map curve ending at 0 and new only 1/2 way at boost. i think i remember a code refering to tps doesnt agree with map and if thats in mine now i dont know what im gonna do to fix this. going tomarrow to scan computer i will let you know. one more thing during boost should i crank the fuel way up on ftc or keep it close to the ratio that i am changing the base map. my mapping is very close to the base map they sent me except down about a full digit or so.
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if the more air you get it gets leaner then it's either the MAP sensor voltage to PCM too low or faulty (you should still check that) or your injectors are too small.
do you get 14.7 AFR at idle and little over? (not 14.2 it should be 14.7 on the spot) - if not then you have some other issue as well (either narrowband or wideband O2 ground is off and the signal is off in turn).
EDIT:
without the enricher you should have 14.7 in closed loop and 12 to 13 in open loop, doesn't matter how much boost you have, should still be 14.7 closed loop, something's off.
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... 14.7 on the spot, is that with or without narrow band plugged in? reread our conversation open loop mapping you are saying as close to 14.7 till just before boost then 12.0 from there on. do not use 12.0 at idle for open loop right. im sure closed loop would take it to 14.7 but you want it already there when it is warmed up in open loop also correct? reason im asking is that seems to be slightly over the limit before i get a bog on tip in. now to cover that tip in hesitation i need to richen up further down the graph closer to 0. ... once i am at 12.0 in boosst and slightly before open loop plug narrow band and it should go to 14.7 correct? wide band is not rock steady it does bounce around a little once it is in a single cell as much as .4or so normal? didnt do the testing on map yet will this week when i have access to scan tool.
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14.7 with the narrowband plugged in. before boost start making it richer, you don't need 12 AFR as soon as it starts to be in boost, go progressive from 13.5 at -5inHg (for example) towards 12.5 at 6psi (or 12 if you think you need that rich but unless it's getting too hot and you get knock i think 12.5 its fine, anyway that's fine tuning more than anything). where ever you tuned to be close to 14.7 without the o2 sensor once you plug in the narrowband should be 14.7, everything else should be where your enricher kicks in so you should get close to whatever you tuned for (without the enricher the PCM would aim for 14.7 but that's not always achievable if the needed trims are too high). You'd never be in open loop at idle other than after starting the engine when the O2 sensor is getting to temperature.
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thank you for clearing that up
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do you know at what point will the computer doesnt see closed throttle as far as tps voltage is comcerned? i tested a yj neighbor and it read .7 volts and mine is 1.0v book says .4 for 00 tj. it has tip in bog which i can correct by adding fuel but i think i am covering something up, mapping is going great thanks to you and autofill
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do you have the stock t/b or a reman, 62mm or 4.0L? Sounds like the position on the tps is off, if the tps is not faulty then you need to adjust the bolt that is the rest for the butterfly lever (but there is a limit at which the butterfly will hit the inside bore, you don't want that - if at that point it still has the voltage off mark then the tps is either wrong for the car or just faulty).
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do you know at what point will the computer doesnt see closed throttle as far as tps voltage is comcerned? i tested a yj neighbor and it read .7 volts and mine is 1.0v book says .4 for 00 tj.
mine is .65 at closed throttle (95 YJ), i found this in the 2000 TJ manual, seems that it's supposed to be even lower than .4 volts
[...] will vary in an approximate range of from .26 volts at minimum throttle opening (idle), to 4.49 volts at wide open throttle [...]
(2000 TJ FSM section 14 Fuel System, page 35).
EDIT:
actually i was wrong, i got mixed up, the .65v was for my Camaro, so i think i know what happened :dance:
just looked in the '95 FSM and this is what it says
This will vary in an approximate range of from 1 volt
at minimum throttle opening (idle), to 4 volts at wide
open throttle.
to me it looks like whoever sold you the TPS gave you the wrong part, what you have is a YJ tps and it's different from the 2000 TJ one and that's obviously part of your problem :driving:
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stock. i called one of my techs that used to work for me and he thought it was supposed to be about .5 volt and that is what the service manual said also. doubt i can get a full .5 volt out ot the min air rate adjustment screw. will try that today. tried 3 tps sensors and all read 1.0-1.1v. do you remember having to richen up the whole 1000 rpm line up to 0hg to get yours to take fuel when pulling out. i got a snap on scanner today hopefully i can learn something about this 2000 rpm stumble. atleast find out if its timing or ruel related. feels like fuel cut but i guess a sudden jump in timing could feel the same. wrecked my neon last night so i really need to get the bugs out of this thing now, im running out of vehicles. have a good day sharp
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stock. i called one of my techs that used to work for me and he thought it was supposed to be about .5 volt and that is what the service manual said also. doubt i can get a full .5 volt out ot the min air rate adjustment screw. will try that today. tried 3 tps sensors and all read 1.0-1.1v. do you remember having to richen up the whole 1000 rpm line up to 0hg to get yours to take fuel when pulling out. i got a snap on scanner today hopefully i can learn something about this 2000 rpm stumble. atleast find out if its timing or ruel related. feels like fuel cut but i guess a sudden jump in timing could feel the same. wrecked my neon last night so i really need to get the bugs out of this thing now, im running out of vehicles. have a good day sharp
read my other post, 2000 TJ is supposed to be .26v at idle, 1v is for the YJ tps.
2000TJ tps OEM P/Ns: 4874371, 4874371AB, 4874371AC, 56027942, Standard TH189, Airtex 5S5104
it can't be YJ as the connector is different so i take that back
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.26 oh boy now what? i will try a different vendor. that would help my #1 problem of having to dump so much fuel in the vac portion of the 1000 rpm line... i hope. the way it is now it seems like pcm just trims it away and creates the bog again anyway. the other issue is the 2000 rpm thing. feels like you turn key off then back on at 2000 rpm. above ok below ok. i am convinced it is compatability with fcu and pcm. on thing i did after installing enricher just for the heck of it i turned the dial the whole way to 0 and wala it drove right through 2000 rpm but soon it wouldnt idle and i had to disconect it and put the jumper in. (all within 3 min maybe) i will have to learn more about the enricher because i didnt think it would even affect it without going past 1lb boost. there is no way to make the enricher turn on at this circumstance is there? this really concerns me and since you dont have a tj your computer isnt the same as mine and you are the only person i have met that has a similar set up. ive posted questions on 4 different jeep forums but havent got any feedback from anyone who knows anything except for the previous owner of my kit who is having the exact symptom as i did and he couldnt fix it so he sold the kit. it was originally a yj kit. he installed it on a tj only difference i see other than mounting is the difference in pcm's. well i got a snap on scanner yesterday and it shows fuel trim but i cannot see individual cells so its not gonna help me. i do have a code for IAT and it shows stuck at 81 degrees (defalt?) i cant imagine that is causing either of my problems although i know i got to fix it.
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i created a new topic trying to find someone who has a obd2 tj with turbo or supercharger.
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on thing i did after installing enricher just for the heck of it i turned the dial the whole way to 0 and wala it drove right through 2000 rpm but soon it wouldnt idle and i had to disconect it and put the jumper in. (all within 3 min maybe) i will have to learn more about the enricher because i didnt think it would even affect it without going past 1lb boost.
http://www.splitsec.com/technotes/Achieving_Fuel_Enrichment_in_Closed_Loop.pdf
set V1 reference to 1.55v (will kick in at -4inHg) and connect V2 to 5v reference, adjust the O2-1 dial to 90 and monitor the AFR, make small adjustments from there to get to the desired afr.
you should bypass the ftc timing feature to take that out of the way (you can reconnect later).
Fix the tps
what is your AFR and MAP voltage and tps voltage when that 2000rpm stumble occurs?
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ok here is where i am now. most areas are 3 or under on adaptives combined. the cell with 1000 rpm in the pcm at idle and initial acceleration afm goes to 16.00 and misses terrible other than that, when its running at idle the short term adaptive is still richening at 11.5-12.0 afm. if you change fcm values to achieve 14.7 in that area it barely runs and wont take throttle and just pours the fuel the short term is +30 .then when you tip in throttle it goes dead lean and misses. so i kept adding fuel to the 1000 line till it would even out short and long term wich was -30short and 30 long and it idles at around12.00 afm. now when you step on throttle you are highlighting further down the 1000 rpm line closer to 0 vac.in this area it goes from -30 short term to counting positive trying to add more fuel.so after adding more fuel to that area it takes fuel on acceleration but all of this is being accomplished at 11.5-12.0 and exhaust STINKS. once you get out of this cell area afm comes back to bouncing back and forth between 14.2 and 14.9 in closed loop with adaptives at 3.0 combined or less. at 2000 rpm it goes lean and adaptive spikes but doesnt accomplish anything. for that quick moment the afm goes up to 15.0+ then right back to normal. as far as the tps i bought a 3rd tps and it reads like the others used chrysler DRBIII and reset min tps and now it reads .89v and 0 percent . except for idle and 2000 rpm, mapping went just like you said it would and was fairly easy. these two issues defy logic. i emailed split second and they said it sounded like low fuel pressure issue. that makes no sense. the rest of the map works logically and its not starving anywhere even in boost with lots of room for adjustment. i will get the values you asked for tomarrow and post them
=
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so the afr is not bouncing at idle? that means either it's too rich to the point it cannot compensate or for some reason you're in open loop. what's your cell value at 1000rpm and -20inHg (or whatever that is for closed throttle)? the tps issue is weird unless the FSM is wrong, not sure what to make of that one to be honest.
are you triggering any "too rich" or "too lean" correction factor codes?
EDIT:
i might have a TJ tps on a t/b somewhere in the garage, if i have time tonight i'll put 5v on it and see what's the output with the throttle closed.
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it was definitly in closed loop and pulling more and more and more fuel at tip in worse than idle but idle too if you stab the throttle below 1000 rpm to say 25% it chugs and adaptive goes crazy rich and this helps take away that feeling of trying to pull out with cold engine with no choke once past 1000 rpm takes off runs fine to 2k then fine after that. check back later test some more today
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here are some readings today KOEF map 25.7? dont make sence. tps .96v @0% active cell adaptive +32 baro 29.2
KOER on fcu r4 screen -14 to-15 inches ofvacuum...drb 14-15 inches of vac short adaptive 33 long 33pulse width 8.8 arf11.0 to 11.3
drove a while then long term changed from 33 to eventually to -5and short term went to -30 then to +7all in 10 minafr went from 11.0 to 14.5 and now for the first time it pulls out from stop with acceptable afr around 14.5 with no hesitation.couple other cells popped up with crazy high adaptives and when it gets there it runs rough and afr goes down to 11 or so. the only thing i did different is unplugged enricher jumper plug and ran it home in open loop cause it was running so rich then plugged it back in and drove. when i drove home in open loop before i plugged jumper back in, afrs went from 11-12 to 14-15. then like i said adaptives completely changed and it now takes fuel from idle on initial accelleration/. the other thing i noticed is now that it pulls out better at propper afr the boost side is now running around 12.0 instead of 14.5 like it was. maybe i need to run this longer i just didnt think the adaptives would look this erratic early on. one other thingwhen it was running at 33 and 33 yesterday 1000 rpm was running so rich due to adaptive memory pulling more and more fuel but other ranges were looking pretty good.
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can you post a screenshot of your FTC map table A (fuel)?
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I will try, last night i drove for abut an hour. drove it with the jumper in the enricher to eliminate it as a problem. after about an hour all pcm adaptives were at +17 except for idle cell and one other one that never seemed to be higlighted during normal driving. now here is some things that are going on. the off idle tip in hesitation is not fixed. i realized the idle had moved up and it was staying out of the 1000 rpm line thus no hesitation. if i sit and idle for 10 sec or so then idle falls down to around 800 rpm then it hesitates when you try to reaccellerate. at 2000 rpm the map voltage does not vary more than .1 or .2 it was at 19.1 when it happened though it depends how much load is on the engine. the lower the load the les you feel it the higher the load its violent. then some times for no reason the afm will read way rich like drop to 10 or 11 while driving and exhaust stinks. then i would pull the jumper off enricher plug which puts it in open loop then it jumps back up to14.5 or so bouncing around plus or minus .3 or so. this has happenend 3 times. when i plug it back in it seems to work fine. the entire range works well and stays stoich + or - .3 or so as it adjusts even in boost it stays at stoich. i did add 5% because of the +17 adaptives to everything except th 1000 line cause it read 0 adaptive. funny thats were it runs the worst. i believe that change go me closer because the air fuel guage is lit up and cycling very fast and mostly in the middle. another thing is the idle hangs up when leaving off the gas coasting while reading around 13.0 kind of like a dash pot if you know what i mean. then it falls to 800 rpm and afm goes back up to normal range. sharp is there any way to to richen the 2000 rpm low vac part of the map? running up the number on the fcu does not affect it. it still goes right up to 15+ and jerks. the only thing that changes as far as timing, tps,map voltage is o2 sensor.nothing else shows any significant change.
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you say bypass timing feature but map b is all 0's so do i need to reconnect crank sensor wire anyway?
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sounds like it goes into fuel cut for some reason. do you have any significant changes in cell values at 2000rpm vs the values above or below that? I would just start fresh with it, reconnect the stock map, leave the larger injectors, take out the enricher and reset the computer - don't go in boost and see what happens - the reason i say this is to eliminate some voltage spike from FTC (or some timing issue as well), if it drives fine and the problem is eliminated i would go back with ftc first but only the map sensor, make sure you set the base fuel table back on it, reset the computer and try again. Other than that the only other thing i can think of is the O2 sensor, just by the way you describe it acts when unplugging the jumper for the enricher.
you say bypass timing feature but map b is all 0's so do i need to reconnect crank sensor wire anyway?
the only reason i'm saying that is to eliminate a potential fault, all "0" means no change but what if there's some problem with the ftc timing output, the "0" is not bypass internally, the signal is still generated by the ftc unit based on when the signal from the sensor is received.
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sharp split second just emailed me and said that is a classic symptom of not having a pulse dampner and that i should get one or some type of resivour. what do you think about that?
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sharp split second just emailed me and said that is a classic symptom of not having a pulse dampner and that i should get one or some type of resivour. what do you think about that?
not sure what to think, the stock rail has a dampener, can you fit it instead of your a/m one (would it work on that intake?)
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no wont work on this intake but the other end of this fuel rail has a threaded end so i could put on on or put the regulator back on and add on on the other side of it. is there a difference that one may work and the other would not?
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intermittantly the idle wont come down i suppose i have an iac issue although at times it will when i come to a complete stop other times it just hangs at over 2000 rpm. the former owner finally returned my email and said he had absolutly no issuse with idle or off idle. only 2000 but he wasnt using a dampner either, now the enricher i have it attached to the front o2 only and set it up to turn on at -4 hg and set at 90 and road tested ran at 14.7 then 80,70,60...0 and it doesnt change a thing. maybe .5 on afr if im lucky. then during testing, pulling a hill at 3/4 throttle it detonated LOUD. scared the heck out of me. took it easy home no damage that i can tell. i suppose i need to hook up to rear o2 next. i checked my wiring again its ok. i know the other day i told you with enricher in it ran very rich but i think it just took a fit like it does now at times. i think i want to go get a used throttle body with sensors on it and try that, would you suggest 4.0 or 2.5 throttle body? all this crap going on at and around idle is still happening in or out of closed loop. the only thing i can do to change it is in open loop run it real fat. oh no there is no changes at 2000 in the map but i did jack them up but didnt help at all. does it in open and closed loop the same. i thought of fuel cut but i still see pulse unless computer doesnt keep up and all other readings timing rpm map all look normal just goes lean and not 16 like decell more like 15.5 or so and on a hill it wont pull through it just bucks real hard ( i think im gonna be in for a t case when this is over with)
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the enricher should change, i suggest flicking the dip-switch 4 into on position, that is for testing and is always on. Could be the 2nd o2 but i don't know, i thought that's for cat efficiency, however i don't think will hurt if you hook it up. I would still take it 1 step at a time though, to troubleshoot, if you can put your stock fuel rail on i would do so just to do what split second recommended.
4.0 for the t/b but you need the 2.5 IAC motor and housing (it says 2.5L on it).
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no wont work on this intake but the other end of this fuel rail has a threaded end so i could put on on or put the regulator back on and add on on the other side of it. is there a difference that one may work and the other would not?
i missed this post when i replied, so delete the suggestion about the stock rail, you can buy an a/m pulsation damper and hook it up at the other end of the rail or inline on the fuel line at the rail, i wouldn't hook up the regulator, there's no point in doing that. If you were asking if the regulator can be used as a damper it won't have enough "give" in the membrane as it was only meant to open/close slightly to let fuel out and not "accumulate" and "release" fuel (the membrane will not deflect that much to give you that feature).
they're fairly cheap and if that would solve the problem it's probably worth it (although imo this could be part of your problem but i don't think it's all of it, but since SSecond said so it's probably worth a shot, they would be the authority in the matter and i am just guessing)
Here's one from floscan
http://www.floscan.com/html/blue/accessorydetail.php?aid=98
it's an air bell type, stock one is a membrane type which is better but they're supposed to be pressure match to be efficient, this other one is an example, it does not list the pressure but you could probably find it.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Standard-Ignition-Fuel-Injection-Pressure-Damper-FPD60-/120890406232?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item1c25a13558&vxp=mtr
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the one on ebay is for a chevy aveo and as best i can tell the pumps on those run about 60lbs compared to what 43 or more from a jeep. is tha suitable.i would love to get this ordered today if it seems right. the air ball type says marine use only but i cant imagine that it would make any difference if it was on a boat of a jeep
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the one on ebay is for a chevy aveo and as best i can tell the pumps on those run about 60lbs compared to what 43 or more from a jeep. is tha suitable.i would love to get this ordered today if it seems right. the air ball type says marine use only but i cant imagine that it would make any difference if it was on a boat of a jeep
it says marine only but i talked to them in the past and they said can be used on vehicles, just for some liability issue they have to say that.
the one on ebay: the part number is FPD60, so that kinda makes sense with the 60psi you found, closest one with a reasonable price is FPD35, i tried to search for "Fuel FPDxx" for 45 to 55 and they're all different mount and quite $$$ (fuel pressure on your Jeep is 49psi), dunno how well would the 35 perform so the floscan would be a safer bet imo - give them a call, they're pretty good on answering questions.
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10.7 11 11.3 11.6 11.9 12.2 12.5 12.8 13.1 13.4 13.7 14 14.3 14.5 14.8 15.1 15.4 15.7 16 16.3 16.6 16.9 17.2 17.5 17.8 18.1 18.4 18.4 18.1 17.8 17.4 17.1 16.8 16.5 16.1 15.8 15.5 15.2 14.8 14.5 14.2 13.9 13.5 13.2 12.9 12.6 12.2 11.9 11.6 11.3 10.9 10.6 10.3 10 9.6 9.3 9 8.7 8.3 8
10.9 10.1 10.2 10.3 10.5 10.6 10.7 10.8 10.8 11.4 11.3 11.3 13 13.1 13.2 13.3 11.1 13.6 14.3 16 16.2 16.3 17.2 17.5 17.9 19.4 19.1 19 20.7 19.4 19.3 19.1 19 18.6 17.5 17.3 17.1 17 16.9 16.6 16.4 12.8 10.3 10.2 8.8 8.7 8.7 8.6 8.6 8.5 8.5 8.4 8.4 8.3 8.3 8.2 8.2 8.1 8.1 8 8
10.9 10.1 10.2 10.3 10.5 10.6 10.7 10.8 10.8 11.4 11.6 11.7 11.8 11.9 12 12.1 12.2 12.4 12.4 12.5 12.7 12.8 12.9 13.1 13.3 13.9 13.6 13.5 14.8 14.6 14.5 14.3 14.2 13.9 13.8 13.6 13.4 13.3 13.2 13 12.9 12.8 10.3 10.2 8.8 8.7 8.7 8.6 8.6 8.5 8.5 8.4 8.4 8.3 8.3 8.2 8.2 8.1 8.1 8 8
10.9 10.5 10.6 10.7 10.9 11 11.1 11.2 11.3 11.4 11.6 11.7 11.8 11.9 12 12.1 12.2 12.4 12.4 12.5 12.7 12.8 12.9 13.1 13.3 13.9 13.6 13.5 14.8 14.6 14.5 14.3 14.2 13.9 13.8 13.6 13.4 13.3 13.2 13 12.9 12.8 10.3 10.2 10.1 10 9.8 9.7 9.6 9.4 9.3 9.2 9 8.9 8.8 8.7 8.5 8.4 8.3 8.1 8
10.9 10.5 10.6 10.7 10.9 11 11.1 11.2 11.3 11.4 11.6 11.7 11.8 11.9 12 12.1 12.2 12.4 12.4 12.5 12.7 12.8 12.9 13.1 13.3 13.9 13.6 13.5 14.8 14.6 14.5 14.3 14.2 13.9 13.8 13.6 13.4 13.3 13.2 13 12.9 12.8 10.3 10.2 10.1 10 9.8 9.7 9.6 9.4 9.3 9.2 9 8.9 8.8 8.7 8.5 8.4 8.3 8.1 8
10.9 10.5 10.6 10.7 10.9 11 11.1 11.2 11.3 11.4 11.6 11.7 11.8 11.9 12 12.1 12.2 12.4 12.4 12.5 12.7 12.8 12.9 13.1 13.2 13.8 13.6 13.4 14.7 14.6 14.3 14.3 14.1 13.8 13.8 13.5 13.4 13.3 13.1 13 12.9 12.8 10.3 10.2 10.1 10 9.8 9.7 9.6 9.4 9.3 9.2 9 8.9 8.8 8.7 8.5 8.4 8.3 8.1 8
10.9 10.5 10.6 10.7 10.9 11 11.1 11.2 11.3 11.4 11.6 11.7 11.8 11.9 12 12.1 12.2 12.4 12.4 12.5 12.7 12.8 12.9 13.1 13.2 13.8 13.5 13.4 14.7 14.5 14.3 14.2 14.1 13.8 13.6 13.5 13.3 13.2 13.1 13 12.9 12.8 10.3 10.2 10 10 9.8 9.7 9.6 9.4 9.3 9.2 9 8.9 8.8 8.7 8.5 8.4 8.3 8.1 8
10.9 10.5 10.6 10.7 10.9 11 11.1 11.2 11.3 11.4 11.6 11.7 11.8 11.9 12 12.1 12.2 12.4 12.4 12.5 12.7 12.8 12.9 13.1 13.2 13.8 13.5 13.4 14.7 14.5 14.3 14.2 14.1 13.8 13.6 13.5 13.3 13.2 13.1 12.9 12.8 12.6 10.3 10.1 10 9.9 9.8 9.7 9.5 9.4 9.3 9.2 9 8.9 8.8 8.7 8.5 8.4 8.3 8.1 8
10.9 10.5 10.6 10.7 10.9 11 11.1 11.2 11.3 11.4 11.6 11.7 11.8 11.9 12 12.1 12.2 12.4 12.4 12.5 12.7 12.8 12.9 13.1 13.1 13.6 13.5 13.3 14.6 14.5 14.3 14.2 13.9 13.8 13.6 13.5 13.3 13.2 13.1 12.9 12.8 12.6 10.3 10.1 10 9.9 9.8 9.7 9.5 9.4 9.3 9.2 9 8.9 8.8 8.7 8.5 8.4 8.3 8.1 8
10.9 10.5 10.6 10.7 10.9 11 11.1 11.2 11.3 11.4 11.6 11.7 11.8 11.9 12 12.1 12.2 12.4 12.4 12.5 12.7 12.8 12.9 13.1 13.1 13.6 13.4 13.3 14.6 14.3 14.2 14.1 13.9 13.6 13.5 13.4 13.3 13.1 13 12.9 12.8 12.6 10.3 10.1 10 9.9 9.8 9.7 9.5 9.4 9.3 9.2 9 8.9 8.8 8.7 8.5 8.4 8.3 8.1 8
10.9 10.5 10.6 10.7 10.9 11 11.1 11.2 11.3 11.4 11.6 11.7 11.8 11.9 12 12.1 12.2 12.4 12.4 12.5 12.7 12.8 12.9 13.1 13.1 13.6 13.4 13.3 14.6 14.3 14.2 14.1 13.9 13.6 13.5 13.4 13.3 13.1 13 12.9 12.8 12.6 10.2 10.1 10 9.9 9.7 9.6 9.5 9.3 9.2 9.1 9 8.8 8.7 8.6 8.5 8.4 8.2 8.1 8
10.9 10.5 10.6 10.7 10.9 11 11.1 11.2 11.3 11.4 11.6 11.7 11.8 11.9 12 12.1 12.2 12.4 12.4 12.5 12.7 12.8 12.9 13.1 13 13.5 13.4 13.2 14.5 14.3 14.2 14.1 13.8 13.6 13.5 13.4 13.3 13.1 13 12.9 12.8 12.6 10.2 10.1 10 9.9 9.7 9.6 9.5 9.3 9.2 9.1 9 8.8 8.7 8.6 8.5 8.4 8.2 8.1 8
10.9 10.5 10.6 10.7 10.9 11 11.1 11.2 11.3 11.4 11.6 11.7 11.8 11.9 12 12.1 12.2 12.4 12.4 12.5 12.7 12.8 12.9 13.1 13 13.5 13.4 13.2 14.5 14.3 14.2 14.1 13.8 13.6 13.5 13.4 13.3 13.1 13 12.9 12.8 12.6 10.2 10.1 10 9.9 9.7 9.6 9.5 9.3 9.2 9.1 9 8.8 8.7 8.6 8.5 8.4 8.2 8.1 8
10.9 10.5 10.6 10.7 10.9 11 11.1 11.2 11.3 11.4 11.6 11.7 11.8 11.9 12 12.1 12.2 12.4 12.4 12.5 12.7 12.8 12.9 13.1 13 13.5 13.3 13.2 14.5 14.2 14.1 13.9 13.8 13.5 13.4 13.3 13.2 13 12.9 12.8 12.6 12.5 10.2 10 9.9 9.8 9.7 9.6 9.4 9.3 9.2 9.1 9 8.8 8.7 8.6 8.5 8.4 8.2 8.1 8
10.9 10.5 10.6 10.7 10.9 11 11.1 11.2 11.3 11.4 11.6 11.7 11.8 11.9 12 12.1 12.2 12.4 12.4 12.5 12.7 12.8 12.9 13.1 12.9 13.4 13.3 13.1 14.3 14.2 14.1 13.9 13.6 13.5 13.4 13.3 13.2 13 12.9 12.8 12.6 12.5 10.2 10 9.9 9.8 9.7 9.6 9.4 9.3 9.2 9.1 9 8.8 8.7 8.6 8.5 8.4 8.2 8.1 8
10.9 10.2 10.3 10.4 10.6 10.7 10.8 10.9 11 11.1 11.2 11.3 11.4 11.6 11.7 11.8 11.9 12.1 12.1 12.2 12.3 12.4 12.5 12.7 12.9 13.4 13.3 13.1 14.3 14.2 14.1 13.9 13.6 13.5 13.4 13.3 13.2 13 12.9 12.8 12.6 12.5 10.2 10 9.9 9.8 9.7 9.6 9.4 9.3 9.2 9.1 9 8.8 8.7 8.6 8.5 8.4 8.2 8.1 8
i dont know if you can follow this but this is wher i am at now. as you can see i have a ton of fuel in that 1000 rpm line to cover initial accelleration and it still isnt enough. last night engine was warm weather was warm and pulling out it still would go into the low 15's on afm verified lean by gauge on dash working off of narrow band but almost no hesitaion and in tip in afm was reading just a tad lean. this morning engine was not warmed up and i was very lean and bogging on tip in acelleration. then at 2000 rpm it dips very lean again. i dont think i can richen that up enough but i will try again today. i turned the shaft in the throttle body and got tps to read .43 at idle now but it didnt affect idle only running the fuel way up does anything. it did make idle more stable and coast down to idle is not hanging up like it was. these numbers at 1000 do not make it run rich its still lean but i think the adaptive is pulling the fuel back out but not sure yet
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i don't see how that can work, difference in adjacent cells are too far apart, should be close and little variation, for example you have 19.1 at 0psi in the 1000rpm row and then at 1500rpm is 13.6, that's a 5.5diffference which is 1.375v, so your map output will drop by that amount once you reach something like 1300rpm or so when you suddenly open the throttle from idle - the information sent to PCM would be reversed, the voltage should be relatively the same for that column, otherwise the tps, rpm and map is conflicting. I would send an email to SS and ask their opinion on this table/row, imo it won't work, something else is happening and you can't fix it by cranking up the map voltage (that's not what is for, the purpose of the ftc1 is remap the pressure to voltage output for your range and slightly tune the reading based on your injectors and max boost for the afr at which you're at but you can't jump by that much voltage, it would "confuse" the inputs to the PCM).
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i agree completly but there is something in the pcm that is not accepting the correct info and i believe it is the same thing that goes on at 2000 rpm. you cant give it enough fuel to run right and if you do the adaptives eventually bring it down anyway and you have the same condition. it seems like the ftc is not compatable with my controller. i will try to send the map to them but trust me that was the only thing i could do to achieve a close to 14.7 reading. and i went up in baby steps took all night. i believe my controller is california emissions not federal if you think that would make a difference. the other thing is it needs that much in open loop also. i would pull the enricher connector off to put an open circuit in the o2 and it is the same within a couple tenths of closed loop in that 1000 rpm line. that was last night warmed up. i will see if they can recieve my table on their site. i;ll let you know
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is your idle too low or too high by any chance?
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i dont think so around 800 . also steps are about 40 on iac and it seemed to be hitting target idle for the most part. last night i actually slep well cause it seemed to have made a drastic change for the good because it has been not driveable. this morning it started leaning out real bad on tip in but idle was 14.5-14.9. back to not driveable. do you think it being a low emmissions controller could have anything to do with it? i sent map to split second. this shouldnt be this difficult. everything ive read from others never suggests these kind of problerms. i have gone over and over my wiring all seems right and the fact that in most areas the ftc seems to work right. felling more and more convinced that the jeep obd2 controller is not fooled by ftc. i read some posts on another forum a while back on the previous owner who put a crap load of new parts on it and was asking for help on this 2000 rpm deal i wish i could find it again. i believe it is why he sent it out to be rebuilt. i didnt take ftc out of the equasion yet i want to wait and see what split second says first then i guess i will go that route. oh and i read your post about that line cant be right and i understand. i just dont know why the computer picks that line to try and lean out to almost no fuel. if i put the map back to what should be normal it runs basically the same as it does jacked up once the adaptives have time to lean it back out. i know i said this but on other lines if you give it a little too much fuel the open loop will run real rich then closed it starts to compensate to stoich. the 1000 line no matter how much change it tries to pull all the fuel out. the highest my afm reads is 16.00 and it ends uo at 15.5-16.0 after it has had time to adapt. thanks for all your help sharp.
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the idle question it idles a little rougher today not much. yesterday the idle hung up at about 1500 then eventually dropped and in those cells afr was rich so i took a little fuel out in that cell range and it came right back down to normal. it really worked nice last night. but not today the more i drive the worse it gets all problems seem to be caused by overly lean conditions.
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ok, basic troubleshooting would require to identify the problem and not try to work around it
so I would do this
1. try to take the FTC out and use the stock MAP sensor
2. leave the FTC in and use the stock injectors
3. if still doing it with either option 1 or 2 use both the stock MAP and stock injectors, if still an issue with that low rpm lean factor then it's not the FTC or the new injectors and it's something else.
if #1 fixes it then it's an issue with the FTC (so focus on troubleshooting that), if #2 fixes it then you need to figure out what's wrong with the injectors.
You really _need_ to determine what's causing the problem, otherwise you're shooting blind and it's unlikely to fix it unless you get really lucky, it's not a fine-tuning matter it's a problem that needs to be fixed first before you get to that stage. Not intending to give you hell but with all the time you wasted by trying to work around this issue you could have performed those 3 basic tests by now. It could also be a timing issue as well, and that can also be tested by not using the FTC timing connections (lean reading can also mean that the fuel is not burned completely and not that there's not enough fuel, it's the amount of oxygen in the exhaust that is measured by the O2 sensor, less burned fuel means more oxygen remaining)
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gonna remove ftc after supper and use oem map and timing. that i can do tonight. injectors are a job due to the way they are bolted through the intake. the manifold must come off and i dont think that is the cause since both injectors do the same thing. but your right i will do that over the weekend.
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gonna remove ftc after supper and use oem map and timing. that i can do tonight. injectors are a job due to the way they are bolted through the intake. the manifold must come off and i dont think that is the cause since both injectors do the same thing. but your right i will do that over the weekend.
can't wait to hear if it does the same or not.
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all wiring back to stock and still does it, injectors still 30# but give me your thoughts on something. i plugged every vac line and still in open loop it it goes way lean on tip in with moderate throttle load makes is way worse like stoppping on a hill then trying to pull out. open loop idles little lopey at 12.5 afr (bigger injectors) tip in way lean 15-16 then runs good till 2000 then real lean again. didnt try boost. closed loop it was getting to stoich or close to it but did the same thing at tip in and 2000rpm. along with this just like before when under boost i get a VERY strong raw fuel smell and i dont think it comes from the exhaust although it might. have back window out. is there anything that could be wrong with the supercharger that might be related? by the way the last owner complained of raw fuel smell under boost too. also on tip in it looses most to all vacuum and under load does go into boost at less than 1500 rpm sometimes as low as 1000. that raw fuel smell will happen even when afr is 14.7 + or - a few tenths. i will take the manifolds back off and change out injectors again this weekend. on a n/a engine it would get so much air from vacuum, is there something in the blower (the vacuum diaghram in the back maybe), that keeps it from creating a lean condition just by the fact that the blower is running on top of the intake. i dont see how the map reads manifold vacuum correctly if its on top of the blower. maybe its under the throttle plates. i am guessing me putting the stock injectors in will only tell me if the other ones are no good because they are going to be too small to go forward with i assume. got my shop manual out and read up on tps and i think its fine either way it just measures the difference between what the computer is told is closed then something like 2.806 volts difference to wot and there is an upper limit of 4.7 volts i think which gives a lot of room to make min tps what ever it happens to be. anyway if i understand it right the computer sees voltage change not actuall voltage. anyway thats where i am i will chime back in after oem inj are in or if s/sec has a revelation.
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i dont see how the map reads manifold vacuum correctly if its on top of the blower.
it is under the throttle butterfly, there's always vacuum there unles you press the gas pedal.
the bypass valve should open when the throttle is closed and should progressively open based on your throttle opening, the vac line for that valve should be connected between the t/b and the supercharger, not after the s/c (just in case you want to check) - things that can go wrong with it: vac line connected in the wrong place, tear in the membrane (not working/not holding vacuum), bad pressure (vacuum) setting on it if it's adjustable.
I'd put the stock injectors back on and test again, then if all good add the FTC back on. What if the injectors are not compatible, just taking a wild guess here - are you sure they are high impedance? what about the size (lb/hr)? or maybe they just squirt like crazy. you have a set of 24lb/hr injectors, that would be the next thing i would try once you tested the stock injectors and maybe after that if all checks out go on a junkyard hunt for larger ones.
seems that you're on the right track now, just keep eliminating possible problems until you get to the root cause - don't try and jump ahead though, 1 step at a time.
if it still does it with the stock injectors then the next thing is the supercharger, intake, fuel rail assembly (put the stock ones back in) - worst case scenario (or maybe best case scenario depending how you look at it) will still have the same issue once you return all back to stock which means then it's something unrelated to FTC/Supercharger/Intake/Fuel Rail/Injectors. Keep at it, you'll get it resolved, you already won a battle by eliminating FTC as a possible issue.
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got my shop manual out and read up on tps and i think its fine either way it just measures the difference between what the computer is told is closed then something like 2.806 volts difference to wot and there is an upper limit of 4.7 volts i think which gives a lot of room to make min tps what ever it happens to be. anyway if i understand it right the computer sees voltage change not actuall voltage.
i think it reads voltage and not voltage differential, if it was a diff the FSM would specify a loose margin for the closed throttle position (between 0.2 and 1 volt for example). It is very specific on the requirement so that kindof proves this point.
on a n/a engine it would get so much air from vacuum, is there something in the blower (the vacuum diaghram in the back maybe), that keeps it from creating a lean condition just by the fact that the blower is running on top of the intake.
this one i didn't get at all, what do you mean by "it would get so much air from vacuum"?
to answer the second part - not sure what you mean by keeping it from creating a lean condition, but here's my answer to that based on what i guese you're asking: if you go in boost with partially open throttle you'd have a problem when running the stock map sensor as you'd see some vacuum between the t/b and the supercharger and in reality you're way passed that point, that's why for these tests i wouldn't go in boost at all - you could take the stock map sensor off the t/b and connect it to the same port the ftc was connected (under the supercharger), that would give you a more accurate reading but would still be limited to 1 bar (no boost reading), it's fine for testing but not as a permanent solution of course. without boost the stock location is good enough for troubleshooting the problem.
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according to scan tool it read the same at 1.0 volt as it does at .4 volt when you reset min tps it pics that voltage to start from and reads it at throttle opening 0% and it detects wide open throttle after it has changed by a certain percent weather you start at .4 or 1.0 it just pushes the wot higher by .6 i think i verified that last night when i checked it with 2 different tbodies. im not sure though i convinced myself that i was wrong all along but who knows. who ever designed this intake is a knuckle head. you must remove the eshaust manifold to acess the bults comming up through to fuel rail. thats my project for tonight. stinking hot out there upper 80's today.
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according to scan tool it read the same at 1.0 volt as it does at .4 volt when you reset min tps it pics that voltage to start from and reads it at throttle opening 0% and it detects wide open throttle after it has changed by a certain percent weather you start at .4 or 1.0 it just pushes the wot higher by .6 i think i verified that last night when i checked it with 2 different tbodies. im not sure though i convinced myself that i was wrong all along but who knows. who ever designed this intake is a knuckle head. you must remove the eshaust manifold to acess the bults comming up through to fuel rail. thats my project for tonight. stinking hot out there upper 80's today.
if your scan tool reports 0% throttle then it must be resetting the min value so i guess it doesn't matter.
that is weird to have to remove the manifold to take the rail out, i would think it's easier to pull the intake rather than the exhaust (actually i'm pretty sure it is easier that way).
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dang sharp your right. last time i had to drill and weld bung on pipe, dont have to mess with that now. boy do i feel dumb
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googled 2000 rpm stumble in jeep tj and there is a lot of people out there with this problem but non exactly. funny how it showes up 2000 rpm though. wonder if at 2000 rpm if the controller does some type of baseline check or something. several issuses showed up anything from 02 sensors to cam and crank sensors to tps and clockspring issues all surfacing at 2000 rpm. i found the post about the fuy with my supercharger and his list of parts he replaced trying to fix the 2000 stumble. one line said he tried replacing stock injectors with 30# new for racing injectors... i am at a stand still jeep is parked outside and its rained yesterday and today and calling for it tomarrow . i am putting it all back to stock so my son can take his date to the prom in it. then back together again and keep going after that
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put it all back to stock and it runs perfect no hesitations anywhere leaving it there for a week or so so my son can take it to prom,then back to drawing board, i have an old friend mike who is an engineer for chrusler and he is looking into why this is happening. see if he can shed some light,
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sharp what do you think about that intake. the injectors on my stock manifold tilt towards the head and inject fuel into the cyl head. my intake (heard someone call it a clifford intake) the injectors sit considerably further back and point straight down not towards cyl head, you reused your intake so you can also reuse your injector rail and dampner and your injectors are in a better location. any thoughts. did you modify your intake? wanna sell it?
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my s/c mount is built to be installed on the a/c compressor support (above the alternator), then piping over to the intake, only thing that was modified on the intake is the inlet diameter, won't work on yours. if those injectors spray straight down that's a stupid intake, it's fine at high rpm but i'm pretty sure will cause problems at low air velocity (idle and around that), only problem is that you don't know for sure that was the cause of your issues. If you're certain the intake is the problem you can buy a stock one from the j/y and modify it at a machine shop that has an a/c tig welder, i could make one for you but i don't think you'd be happy with the price (will take some designing, machining, welding and then machining again + shipping of your clifford over and shipping the 2 back to you will make it fairly expensive in the end). You should still test those stock injectors with this intake to figure out if that works, you might have a surprise there (if it works fine with stock injectors then it's not the intake)
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i see. and i agree bad design but cause of my 2000 rpm stumble,not likely.( IMHO) and as stupid as the intake design is it must have worked on somones. i think i will try and put the odd fuel rail with no dampner on the oem setup to see if there is any difference. next week after prom.
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i see. and i agree bad design but cause of my 2000 rpm stumble,not likely.( IMHO) and as stupid as the intake design is it must have worked on somones. i think i will try and put the odd fuel rail with no dampner on the oem setup to see if there is any difference. next week after prom.
before you swap the intakes again,
how easy is to add the ftc1 back in?
just thinking you could try the 30# injectors on the stock intake without the supercharger, should be easy to just pull the fuel rail out and swap the injectors and use the base map they sent you with the ftc1 installed - should work as with the s/c on but without boost, good test to eliminate the intake design or anything related to the s/c install before moving forward.
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my plan with chrysler is mking several data recordings 1 all stock, one with stock injectors and blower without belt on. then one with belt on, then add ftc and finally with enricher, 5 different data recordings. i am suspecting all but stock will have 2000 rpm cut out but i am curious about the blower without the belt, as long as they are willing to help im gonna give them as much info as i can. prom is over now its back to work. i wanted your opinion on something, at 3000 rpm and higher the blower makes a grounding out noise which i swear is a bearing noise but he said he sent it away less than 5000 miles ago to replace worn out front bearing. he had it replaced with a ceramic bearing so he says, is there such a thing as too tight of a belt to cause this noise, it has to be pretty tight or belt squeals,
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my plan with chrysler is mking several data recordings 1 all stock, one with stock injectors and blower without belt on. then one with belt on, then add ftc and finally with enricher, 5 different data recordings. i am suspecting all but stock will have 2000 rpm cut out but i am curious about the blower without the belt, as long as they are willing to help im gonna give them as much info as i can. prom is over now its back to work. i wanted your opinion on something, at 3000 rpm and higher the blower makes a grounding out noise which i swear is a bearing noise but he said he sent it away less than 5000 miles ago to replace worn out front bearing. he had it replaced with a ceramic bearing so he says, is there such a thing as too tight of a belt to cause this noise, it has to be pretty tight or belt squeals,
mine makes noise too, it was new when i bought it, i replaced all 4 bearings and send it out to Kenne-Bell and they checked it - they said some of them make noise, probably it get's amplified by the transfer of sound to the intake manifold. Not saying it can't be the bearing but you could tell if there's excessive play in it.
I doubt the s/c without the belt will work for you, it will basically block the admission of air into intake, if you keep it low throttle opening will probably work as the bypass valve will be open but wot or low rpm and some 1/2 throttle opening the bypass will close due to absence of vacuum and the engine will get choked by the s/c screws (there's not much room between the lobes) - i never tried it that way though so i can't tell for sure but this is my guess of that scenario.
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What is the intake air temp reading as you rev it up?
My YJ got scrappy with me and it was the intake air temp sensor, it was pulling timing because the sensor was basically sending random readings as it failed... :brick:
I've seen more than one FTC have issues with Mopar computers, the Neon's are a Bit** to get running with one.
We wrestled an ACR for weeks til we found out it had tamper logic in it that was shunting it to limp mode if it
detected out of spec data. (Car is a real ACR with the sealed computer... so this was designed into it for the race series...)
Wish the Turbo neon computer fit the YJ...
Dave
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thanks for chiming in. were you able to get passed the tamperproof programming in that controller? my original air temp would not read at all so i replaced it with the one that was on my oem intake and now it reads fine and the 2000 rpm fuel cut or whatever it is that is leaning it out to the point of shutting down did not change at all. it is there every time i hit 2000 rpm. is there a possibilty that the tamperproof programming could be in all obdII controllers? i feel that whatever it is ,is controller related because ftc works well in most rpm ranges except for 2000. do you know of any info recources for ftc issues like mine?
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thats good to hear sharp. i was debating weather or not to send it out before i start over again over that noise but i feel more comfortable. no play at all i think its fine
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ok s/c back on and with oem injectors and still has tip in hesitatiion right off idle and 2000 rpm cut out. there goes another possibility, did not get a dampner yet. guess i should get one of them next. calling dealership to get data recorder so my friend at chrysler tech assistance can look at it. couldnt use oem fuel rail with dampner. its not the same spacing or angle as this intake requires
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ok s/c back on and with oem injectors and still has tip in hesitatiion right off idle and 2000 rpm cut out. there goes another possibility, did not get a dampner yet. guess i should get one of them next. calling dealership to get data recorder so my friend at chrysler tech assistance can look at it. couldnt use oem fuel rail with dampner. its not the same spacing or angle as this intake requires
with or without the ftc-1? and what's the vac reading or it doesn't matter?
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it is without ftc. waiting co pilot from dealer to record then reinstall ftc, but it is the same condition as all the other times before. vacuum doesnt matter except , like before, the lower vacuum the worse the stumble is at 2000 rpm.
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it is without ftc. waiting co pilot from dealer to record then reinstall ftc, but it is the same condition as all the other times before. vacuum doesnt matter except , like before, the lower vacuum the worse the stumble is at 2000 rpm.
have you tested/checked the bypass valve?
only other thing i can think of is if the injectors spraying right down has anything to do with it, but i would start with the above. if your bypass valve is mech actuated by a lever and you can lock it open do that and see if you stil have the stumble. take some closeup pics of it if you're unsure and post them. Some valves have a dual port, one for vacuum and the other one for boost, usually the boost one is not used in your setup, make sure the vac line goes to the proper port on the valve body, and also the vac line should be connected on the throttle body side of the supercharger and not on the outlet side (intake manifold side).
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hi sharp, there is/was a problem with the bypass valve. the nipple that is seated where the vacuum hose attaches was pulled out and loose. vacuum would hold it in place but engine off i could pull it right out. this lase time i drove it home in the bore and it is in there tight now but still does the same problem. i will take pictures on monday afternoon and try to post them. i verified the actuator does move but cant be sure it is working the way it should. thanks for the new idea. do you think i should go back to the 30# ford injectors now for further diagnosis or stay with the oem ones.
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hi sharp, there is/was a problem with the bypass valve. the nipple that is seated where the vacuum hose attaches was pulled out and loose. vacuum would hold it in place but engine off i could pull it right out. this lase time i drove it home in the bore and it is in there tight now but still does the same problem. i will take pictures on monday afternoon and try to post them. i verified the actuator does move but cant be sure it is working the way it should. thanks for the new idea. do you think i should go back to the 30# ford injectors now for further diagnosis or stay with the oem ones.
block the valve on open (put a strap on the lever or take out the butterfly (if you're comfortable centering it back, if not have it stuck on open), with the stock injectors and valve fully open should work fine regardless if you have the supercharger on (you can even take the belt off of it in that case for further testing). Don't go to the 30# injectors just yet, you need to get it working fine like this (with the valve open), if you can't then you have a problem (and it's not the supercharger, ftc or 30# injectors). test this and go from there, i'm really curious to hear how it works like this.
EDIT: on a second thought why don't you take that belt out (off the supercharger) and run the stock one - with the bypass valve locked open and it should run just like stock with some limitations on high rpm/top end since the valve is probably 1'' diameter so the airflow would be restricted, regardless of that it should run fine between idle and 3500 rpm which is where your problem is, try that and if it fails then you need to find the culprit, if it's all is good leave the valve locked open and put the belt back in, same thing here (should run fine).
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ok got data recorder. ilooked at the actuator. what i see is the vacuum controll is on the passenger side of the actuator and connects vertically. a small line goes from it to the actuator. the actuator has a rod that goes underneath the throttle body into the supercharger. its very hard to see under there. it is also very hard to get anything under there to pull back and hold back that rod. i can see it move when engine is running. thinking i could get needle nose vice grips on that rod and pull it back. and maybe tie it there. also in my rimmer instructions the three ports on the back for vacuum the far right is where they want the iat sensor the middle is for crankcase ventalation only and third is for everything else including power brakes. is that how you had yours? i think i had some other vacuum lines in that port and i noticed that there was oil in that line and more oil in the vacuum block then i felt comfortable with. it was like it was sucking oil out of the engine. i was a quart low when i checked it after returning it back to stock and it is a new engine. hasnt seemed to use any since.
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ok got data recorder. ilooked at the actuator. what i see is the vacuum controll is on the passenger side of the actuator and connects vertically. a small line goes from it to the actuator. the actuator has a rod that goes underneath the throttle body into the supercharger. its very hard to see under there. it is also very hard to get anything under there to pull back and hold back that rod. i can see it move when engine is running. thinking i could get needle nose vice grips on that rod and pull it back. and maybe tie it there. also in my rimmer instructions the three ports on the back for vacuum the far right is where they want the iat sensor the middle is for crankcase ventalation only and third is for everything else including power brakes. is that how you had yours? i think i had some other vacuum lines in that port and i noticed that there was oil in that line and more oil in the vacuum block then i felt comfortable with. it was like it was sucking oil out of the engine. i was a quart low when i checked it after returning it back to stock and it is a new engine. hasnt seemed to use any since.
that's how i had mine roughly based on what you explained
now as far as crankcase vent, the small fitting vent (closer to the rad) goes between the t/b and the supercharger, the thick line goes to the air filter.
the valve actuator most likely can be taken off and you would probably have access to the lever easier that way, hard to tell without pictures, i'm just trying to put what you explained into an image but it's hard to get it right that way :)
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2 things sharp i had wrong split second wiring sheet. they sent me one that was slightly different but now r4 map wont come off 500 rpm line. if i change it back to my 97 2.5l instructions it works but computer keeps overriding my values like before. on the top of my 00 2.5l instructions it says for fed emmissions. i have california low emissions controller. i checked mopar part number
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i looked at the actuator and without pulling it off i can see what is happening. the 2000 lean out and the tip in hesitation work the same way. the wideband goes extreemly lean to the point that the engine severly missfires this causes vac to go low and after a small delay the actuator lets go and starts to give up. as soon as the engine begins to pick up vac comes up and actuator pulls back again. it may not be right but i dont think the tail is wagging the dog. pretty sure its the other way around. when i get the wiring set up right for california emmissions and problem is still there then i will take it off. ive told everyone i have a low emmisions controller but no one seems to think it would matter but s/s says they have many 2.5l jeeps running there equiptment and are having no problems. they didnt say anything about low emmissions controllers. i told them that it had that on it last time i contacted them and they said it was the missing dampner at that time.
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you should try to get it to work right with the bypass open and no ftc or enricher or large injectors, skipping over this step will just make it almost impossible to tune. Just my opinion, you're trying to adjust the readings and inputs to the pcm and fix the problem at the same time.
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they sent me the wrong instructions the 97 ones were right.
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i can watch the linkage. when i stab the throttle it goes dead lean. rod is pulled back it only falls forward if i hold it there and let it shut off or all but shut off. just like if you would have a cold engine with a carb and held the choke wide open. if you stab the throttle and hold it at say 1/2 to 3/4 throttle it just feels like you turn the key off and will shut off unless you let off quick and say feather the throttle. this is how it works. at 2000 rpm it does the same thing if i hold it there it all but shuts off untill the rpm gets under 2000 or over 2100 or so. i am sure the butterfly is open when this happens.it only falls off when its about to shut off or when its running so bad that it cant maintain vac for a time. you have a ton more experience with this stuff but i dont see a problem with the way the butterfly is working. belt off with vacuum to the actuator should be the same as if i wired it open,right? if thats the case i will pop the belt off tomarrow
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i don't know if it's the actuator or not, what i'm saying is that if you lock the bypass butterfly open and it does the same thing (the 2000rpm problem) then it's not the valve or the supercharger or the emissions or the pcm (you name it) it's something else and that's where you have to look (maybe it is the intake manifold, the injectors angle or maybe the fuel rail setup, i don't know what exactly but you need to find out). There's no reason on even trying to go passed this point unless you're sure you can fix it and tune it at the same time but i doubt it. all this is with stock injectors and without the ftc or enricher
anyway, that's all I got, can't think of anything else
about the instructions: what's different between the 2 sets?
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add ing 1 wire to cam sensor signal. ftc couldnt see rpm without it. been talking to split second several times this week. they want me to put bigger injectors back in it. they said my map needs to be very close to theirs and oems were set fully maxed and still couldnt deliver eniough fuel. while using their map it would not do anything but idle and it was rough. i couldnt even pull out of my driveway without slipping the clutch and couldnt even shift to 2nd gear without slipping the clutch and wideband was at 15.50 to 16.00 the whole time. they are leading me to believe that i need big enough injectors to run at their base map settings. they said their map is for 50% bigger injectors soooo... at my stock fuel pressure how do i find injectors 50% bigger and do injectors made to run at lower pressure work well at higher pressures? what would you recomend as far as the best option for injectors i think we discussed this before but do you have any source of info that would give me an oe application for injectors that would give me what i need. i know
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that this is a different approach but he said he will walk me through this till we get it. i want to give him a chance.
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since you got 30s means you'll need 45s, i'm curious to find out how it works. check Accel's website, they might have some equiv table where you can get the oem application which would have something that size.
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my oems are 30's at 47lbs pressure so i need ones that are rated 45@47lbs fuel pressure right? didnt see anything on accells website. any other ideas
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what do you think of a bosch 42 lb ev6 ford racing injector ebay 40.00 ea. 42lb at 43.5 lbs fuel pressure. 15.9 ohms resistance
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what do you think of a bosch 42 lb ev6 ford racing injector ebay 40.00 ea. 42lb at 43.5 lbs fuel pressure. 15.9 ohms resistance
i would just ask them for the rating rather than trying to guess, they know better what's the flow their system is built for, just clarify with them at what pressure should the rating be at.
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ok working with split second is like going back to page 2 of this thread but i will do what they ask. the putterfly thing, were you looking go see if the butterfly was opening all the way or if it was falling back closed. because i am sure it is not releasing thus causing the lean spot but what if the actuator is not pulling it far enough? it seems like the tip in deal is like when the throttle plates open up the s/c stuffs too much air in causing it to go too lean. i think we discussed this before and you didnt think that was a possibility.but could that happen if the butterfly malfuntioned
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sharp can i use 4.0l tbody with its iac and just swap connectors or do i have to use a 2.5 one and swap it intp 4.0 tbody. my 2.5 one is sticking and ive cleaned it but it still sticks and i have a 4.0 tb with one in it. and the butterfly deal. still wondering if you were thinking that it wasnt opening fully or closing prematurely.
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sharp can i use 4.0l tbody with its iac and just swap connectors or do i have to use a 2.5 one and swap it intp 4.0 tbody. my 2.5 one is sticking and ive cleaned it but it still sticks and i have a 4.0 tb with one in it. and the butterfly deal. still wondering if you were thinking that it wasnt opening fully or closing prematurely.
with the 4.0 IAC will idle high, might go down but takes longer to get there. you can use it but won't be proper
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Hi Mike,
>>>i saw a fuel pressure dampner on your site
FloScan Instrument Co. does not manufacture nor does it sell "a fuel pressure dampner". In fact I doesn't even know what one is.
>>>i realize your site says for marine use but i assume that for liabillity reasons.
No so. We would love to sell systems for wheeled vehicles but when used in that application they are grossly inaccurate.
Best Regards,
Ed Sanford
Technical Service Mgr.
after waiting a week for a reply on the dampner that they have on there site this is what i got.
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http://www.floscan.com/html/blue/accessorydetail.php?aid=98
its called pulsation dampner
he's talking about flow sensors, there's nothing to be inaccurate with the dampner
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HA HA HA I CANT BELIEVE I WROTE PRESSURE INSTEAD OF PULSATION NOW ANOTHER WEEK... HOPE NOT
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CALLED THEM TODAY SENDING IT OUT THANKS FOR FINDING THAT SITE SHARP.
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HA HA HA I CANT BELIEVE I WROTE PRESSURE INSTEAD OF PULSATION NOW ANOTHER WEEK... HOPE NOT
he should have figure out what you're asking though
CALLED THEM TODAY SENDING IT OUT THANKS FOR FINDING THAT SITE SHARP.
don't want to discourage you but i doubt this will solve the issue (i hope it will, worth a shot but slim chance imo, it's cheap so no real harm if it doesn't help you're just back at square zero).
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got the dampener today gonna try it tomorrow. wish me luck. gonna take a close look at the butterfly. do you have any suggestions. i know i kept telling you it seems to be working as it should but if i wire it back the whole way back what does that do. i thought it worked somewhat like a dump valve but thats not right is it. and yeah i dont think it (dampener) will fix it wither but its a cheap try. they sent me an email stating that they have sold thousands for all years of jeeps and have never had one that it was not compatible with. you know i remember when this thing would go into boost and make power i would get a very strong smell of raw fuel. that being said would a problem with the butterfly allowing an excape of boosted intake air/fuel be a possibility? the smell seems to come from the front of the vehicle not the exhaust. not positive but im pretty sure. i think that if this is not an electrical issue that seems to be the only part of the sysem that could cause that smell. i checked thoroughly for anything that could cause a vacuum leak and dont see anything. this is my last best shot before i nix the whole thing. if anything new comes in that jeep brain of yours let me know.
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I'd like to see some closeup pictures of all things we discussed before i make any further assumptions. I agree with Split Second as far as it should work and more to that that you shouldn't get the 1 spot problem. the reason i asked that you have the bypass butterfly blocked open (and without the belt also) is so you can test the intake just like you'd run stock without the supercharger and stock manifold (with stock injectors and no ftc or enricher). If you can't get it to work like that (it will not produce any boost especially without the belt) you won't make it work with the ftc and boost. Like i said, it can be something with the way it's all connected (vacuum, bypass valve, etc) or something with that intake (you mentioned the injectors are not angled towards the intake valves so that can be one problem). Other than that i got nothing.
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called floscan today to ask if it made a difference if i installed the pulsation dampener on the front or rear of the fuel rail and he said it doesnt matter cause it isnt gonna work anyway. not made for what i wanted it to do. this after another person there last week said sure it will work, ordered gasket today try it out tomarrow. i did lock the butterfly back with belt on before i took it apart with no affect. gonna try it tomarrow alll together then put belt on and see what happened
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same as before. 2000 rpm goes dead lean and gives violent jerk then continues on. still has bad tip in lean spot which can be corrected by raising up the map in that area but along with the correction comes a very high idle on coast down. seems like fuel puddleing in the intake or something like that. it eventually comes back down but it can take as long as 30 seconds. no matter what you do with the mapping nothing affects the 2000 rpm lean spot. think im done now. this thing really needs to go to a yj owner who could use it with none of these issues.
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it's got nothing to do with being a YJ or TJ
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obd2 is what i was refering too. guess what i found. an avenger supercharger for a 2.5l tj on ebay last night. i messaged the seller and asked him if he had the 2000 rpm hiccup when he had it on his and he said yes. he said he made it less noticable by maxing the values on the ftc map at that rpm starting around 0 vac.(the same thing i did) only it didnt work well for me and once the o2 was re attached and driven for a while it got worse. he pulled it off and installed a v8 and is selling it on ebay now. texted him and asked if he still had his map saved just to see but havent heard from him back yet.
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obd2 is only the standardized communication with external scanners and self emissions diagnosis (second O2 sensor), otherwise the operation and inputs are the same. most of the sensors are identical or almost identical, you'll have different connectors but otherwise it's the same part. ECU is different (but same operating principles).
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sharp got a question about adjustable idler by powersteering pump. i snapped off a bushing that holds idler on. looking for a n exploded view to see if i assembled it wrong after taking supercharger off. i have a thick spacer washer in back then pully then bushing then bolt. am i missing any pieces?