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General Forums => The Mess Hall => Topic started by: midnightcwby on March 21, 2006, 12:53:21 PM
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Hey guys, sorry about writing another book with this post, but I would like to share some information I hope will be useful to those of you who are interested in getting more control and adjustability over the electronic fuel injection system that governs our little 2.5l engines. I wanted to let anyone know who might be interested know that I have successfully built my first MAP sensor adjustor per the instructions I got through a thread on this board and the Google research I did on the subject. I changed the design a little to suit my tastes, and to offer a few features the original design didn't offer. Now I will admit that I have a lot more electronic theory and circuit design/creation experience than most people I know, so this was very easy and quite enjoyable a project for me, but it's easy enough that a simple one can be made by someone with only very basic electronic skills (I think one of the designs that was offered didn't even need soldering, it relied instead on connecting all the components with a screw-down type terminal strip). My design relocates the circuit to the passenger compartment. I added a second adjustable voltage regulator circuit to run in parallel with, but independent of, the single regulator circuit the original design called for. I added a second switch as well. The end result is I have a nice little box on my dash that has 2 presets that are selectable with the flick of a switch. One switch selects between the stock signal and the new, modified signal. The second switch selects between the two adjustable regulator circuits. This allows you to tune one circuit for maximum fuel efficiency, and tune the other circuit for a more aggressive setting and select between these two settings instantly. You can also re-adjust these settings anytime you like from the comfort of your driver's seat! No need to climb under the hood to fumble around with the adjustor pot's anymore!
I also have located and modified a circuit for a Air/Fuel ratio gauge. I'm going to build this right into the MAP sensor adjustor box I built so I can monitor and adjust my fuel ratio without having to get out of my seat, all in one little box!
If anyone is interested in this stuff, I will be happy to provide information and I am debating producing a few of these MAP/Air-Fuel ratio boxes like the one I have, for a modest contribution cost (I need to recover the cost of materials and time that goes into building and testing one of these babies! It will be ridiculously cheaper than anything else you can buy, and offers a lot more adjustability and better features than any commercial units I've seen yet. Just to give an idea, I think the MAP adjuster-Air/Fuel ratio meter combo box can be built and shipped for less than you can get a cheap Air/Fuel ratio gauge from AutoZone, or anywhere else for that matter-probably less than, or about $50 for the whole she-bang including all the wiring you'll need to install it and nicely detailed install instructions). I will ONLY extend this offer to members of this board, if I do decide to build a few extras, and this will ONLY come after I fully test these things and am completely satisfied in their operation. So far, it bench tests PERFECTLY! I get total adjustment of my MAP sensor reference signal from ~0vdc to 6.55vdc. The original reference signal is 5.0vdc. This is more than enough adjustment to compensate for the 4.0l Throttle Body upgrade and other future mods.
I would SERIOUSLY suggest using an Air/Fuel meter if you want to try and make one of these MAP adjusters on your own. Setting this thing is just a guess if you don't have any type of real-time feed back from your engine. My Air/Fuel ratio meter I'm making building (as with most commercial units) can share the stock O2 sensor's signal with the ECM, or you can have your favorite exhaust shop weld in a bung for a second O2 sensor somewhere near the exhaust manifold. Install a single wire sensor in this new position and wire up your gauge to that if you'd like to keep the gauge separate from the ECM's O2 sensor, whatever you want. I'm cheap right now, so I'm double dutying my O2 sensor. The draw back, though, is if my single O2 sensor starts to go bad due to old age, I won't have a separate sensor's signal to compare it to, so it might take a little longer to realize your sensor is taking a crap on you. That's not a big deal though; eventually you'll figure it out when your A/F ratio gauge consistently gives weird readings all of the sudden and the classic dead O2 sensor symptoms emerge.
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this a question I have been dying to ask...Do you have emission testing.
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Nope. That's ok though. The "Back to Stock" switch will eliminate any changes the box made. If your concern is that the mods you've made have inadvertently affected your A/F ratio causing you to run to lean or rich and thus, messing up your emissions tests, this box (with use of an A/F ratio meter) could possibly help you re-adjust your mixture and pass your emission tests.
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I'll take one of those. I was going to do that project as well but it keeps moving down the priority list. Keep us poasted
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Well, if you want, you can send one to me for testing.
For the air/fuel meter are you going to use a gauge or a light bar? Personally, I think a light bar would be better. Then it could be easily remote mounted to the dash someplace.
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The original design calls for a 10 segment L.E.D. bar graph, so the first one I do will have that. The next one I do will have individual L.E.D.'s arranged in some neat configuration.
One of the advantages of this setup is I can, like you suggested, remotely locate the bar graph or the L.E.D. array if I choose. I, personally, will build mine into my MAP sensor adjustor box so I can have my adjustment and my A/F ratio in the same place, but that's just personal preference.
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I'll take one too. My Jeep has been running rich for as long as I have had it. I would love to lean it out a little and get better anything from that little motor.
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I'm ordering the parts to make the Air/Fuel ratio meter today. When I get the parts in I'll design, etch and drill the circuit board, and solder everything up I'll post and let every one see 'er (I should have all that done a day or two after I get the parts in because I'm excited to get this thing in my Jeep and working). I'll then get it in the jeep and hopefully take a few pics of my Air/Fuel ratio at different settings as a result of the MAP adjuster. This project is getting very overshadowed in my mind by an even greater project I'm going to be starting in the months to come though; the Mega Squirt engine management system;) !!!
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Ok, here's a few pics of the circuit board with all the components mounted and tested. I just have the 2 switches to mount to the front panel of the enclosure and I need all the stuff to make my A/F gauge and mount that in the front panel of the box too.
(http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e1/midnightcwby/MapBoxInTheMess.jpg)
(http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e1/midnightcwby/MapBoxInTheBox.jpg)
(http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e1/midnightcwby/MapBoxCircuit.jpg)
(http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e1/midnightcwby/MapBoxAdjusters.jpg)
(http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e1/midnightcwby/MapBoxVoltageRegulators.jpg)
(http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e1/midnightcwby/MapBoxSkee-Matic.jpg)
That's where that is, hope you got a laugh or two at my disorginaztion skills!
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Wow are you drawing with solder? :lol:
Care to scan the schematic? It would be 100x eather then drcyphering that mess. :lol: :wink:
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when it's done e-mail it to me and I'll make a nice CAD drawing for everyone including part numbers and stuff. Nice work......... your making two....right? haha
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I etched the copper with Ferric Chloride (Radio Shack has it, #276-1535A).
I then run a solder trace over it to make the proto-type a little more resilient to over current and flexing and other stuff that could cause the thin little copper traces to fail. I draw doodles on it too (as you can see) to reduce the amount of copper that the Etchant needs to remove... I'm just impatient and that makes the board finish faster :wink: I definitely planned on scanning the image and fixin' it up so it's actually readable for you guys, I just had the pic so I posted it, I was kinda click happy I guess. I'll email it with the part number list to anyone who wants it, when I get a moment or two! 8)
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I figured you traced the board with solder. I've built IC's before but never slathered solder all over them. :wink:
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So for those of us just reading along... (or, electronically challanged)...
Let's get something that littleredbeater suggested. A CAD and parts list would be fun. I've love to try to built something like this.
In the meantime... I'll keep reading along.
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I thought I heard you need a wide band o2 sensor to correctly read your air/fuel ratio?I don't know a hole lot about it but I am very intrested in how you box works and buying one if you decied to realy make some up.
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A wide band O2 is an awesome idea for very precise readings. It gives you MUCH better resolution over your stock O2. To get an idea of what’s up though, your stock O2 will work. The A/F gauge I have plans for has an adjustable scale so it can accommodate a different sensor later.
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sounds great keep me informed I would really like to buy one from you if you decide to make some up
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I'm just waiting for the parts for the A/F gauge to come in from WWW.Allelectronics.com I suggest you guys who like electronic gatgets and stuff to check these guys out! They have some AWESOME prices. They've got a real nice L.E.D. super bright flash light that I'm going to have to pick up. It's nice to have a good, reliable flash light when you break at night! They have L.E.D. head lamps for hands free work too. They've got all kinds of crap on there at pretty great prices. I'll see how fast this stuff gets here and how pleased I am with my order, but so far I give these guys 2 thumbs up for sure!
I have yet to find a reasonable source on the LM3914N (DOT/Bar Display Driver) chip. I have found a few places that will ship in the single digits (I don't want 1,000 of the damn things!) but they want about 5 bucks for the damn thing, then a few bucks to ship it!!! Just drop it in an envelope and stick a stamp on it, get real people! I may just break down and spend 8 or so to get one shipped, but I hope I can find a cheaper source for future reference. I wanted to make a few of these things and sell them first come first serve to you guys, but 8 bucks for the driver chip is about 5 bucks more than I was expecting to have one shipped for. That'll add 5 bucks to the total cost for me to build them. Oh well, there still tons cheaper than the 60 dollar models at AutoZone! Anyway, I expect to get most of the parts by Thursday or so. As soon as I get them, I'll finish up the front panel and post some pics for you guys to take a peek.
If any of you get a connection on those driver chips for less than 8 bucks shipped, please let me know. I'm doing my best to check all of my regular parts suppliers, but there all about the same so far!
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Wow, how fantastic. I've wanted to do this for awhile, but the electrical stuff is where my auto skills are most deficient. Geez, if I could be put on a waiting list that would be awesome. And hey, if you need a down payment to cover parts, I think it would be well worth it.
Thanks so much.
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I'm not going to want any down payments or anything. I'm going to get these devices finished as soon as school lets me. I'll test them, and IF they do what there supposed to, I'll see who really wants them and work with them to either help them make one themselves or just make one and ship it to them if I have the time and resources. I don't see why I wouldn't be able to do that, but stuff seems to happen when you least expect it, so AT VERY LEAST, I'll post all of my results, all of my schematics, and all of my designs for enclosures and stuff, along with all the advice I can offer on the construction process for who ever needs it. Either way, I'd like to be able to let you guys know some real info into this mod and clear up if it really does what it's claimed to do.
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I finally found a source for the driver chip I needed to make the Air/Fuel Ratio meter, E-BAY of course! I get them for like $2 and it costs an initial $2.50 to ship the first one and $.01 to ship each additional one after that. I ordered 4, so it looks like I'll be building 3 extra Map Adjuster - Air/Fuel Ratio boxes. I also found a place that sells a nice kit that I'll be able to use one of my laser printers to print my circuit on a special film that I can transfer to the copper clad boards with an iron. These will be pretty clean and nice looking. I will have integrated the dual map adjustor circuit with the A/F meter circuit so I will only have to etch one board for each unit. This will save me time and make them cheaper to make.
when it's done e-mail it to me and I'll make a nice CAD drawing for everyone including part numbers and stuff. Nice work......... your making two....right? haha
If I give you the circuit schematic, component location and layout, and PC Board dimensions, can you make a cad drawing of just the circuit in my requested dimensions? The reason I ask is if making a printable circuit to the proper scale becomes a pain in the rear, I'd like to be able to supply you with the information and have you draw it up and save it in an image format I'll be able to print from my computer. I can print that image directly to this special plastic transfer film and iron that directly to the PCB's so I can etch them. I have a copy of Electronic Work Bench, and I think that will have the DIP socket templates and such that I will need to make the image myself. If not, though, it would be nice to know of someone who will be able to hook it up so I can get a few more of these things built.
Anyway. I know it's taking a little while, but I really am getting some where with the project, and I've got a crap load of other stuff going on too (who doesn't?!). So bear with me :) I'll post info as often as I can. I can't wait 'till these driver chips get in so I can finish this puppy and try 'er out!!!
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I've held off posting a schematic because I'm currently integrating the two devices into one design (the MAP adjustor and the A/F gauge). I'll post it when I get it done in a day or two. Thanks for your patience, I really hope this thing ends up earning the bacon and being as useful as I've been told it will be. I can definitely see how being able to adjust for mods to your fuel injected engine will be nice!
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e-mail them to me at derekoflifer@yahoo.com and I'll draw them up. Just put as many dimensions on it as you can.
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Cool. If EWB can't do what I need it to I'll send the stuff to you. Thanks!
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All right. I'm FINALLY getting back to this project after the move. I have been researching better board building techniques to speed up the process for my robotics projects I'm going to be getting into. I came across a very nice process that involves one of my many laser printers. This will give extremely accurate, attractive, and reliable boards. I'm gathering all the necessary materials as we speak and I'll test this procedure this weekend ( I work 3 on 3 off, 4 on 4 off; I have big weekends! ) I also bought 3D modeling software and I now have circuit design/board design software that rocks! I have the Air/Fuel adjuster proto-type built and bench tested already, and I now have a scale printout of the Air/Fuel Ratio Gauge's circuit as well. I'll be using that circuit as my test subject so I'll have a prototype board ASAP. I'm also waiting on the L.E.D. driver chips. Once I have these in my hand, it's just a matter of soldering all the parts to the board and plugging the baby in. I really hope this thing works the way the designer says it will!! ;)
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The check is in the mail ;)
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Me too just give me that adrress
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wow i didnt even read the full first pst wet(will when i have nmore time) but looks like somthing i sould have done in my electronics class for some extrem amount of points and to make somthing i would actualy use :shock:
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I got the first board done using the laser printer method last night. I've still got some 'ironing' out to do (that's actually funny to me because I use an iron to transfer the toner to the PCB... haha), but it seems to work nicely. I have to get my hands on a band saw to cut the board into 3 pieces so I can etch the other 2 circuits for the 2 extra boxes I'll be making; but the first one looks good. I'll update when I get that done.
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Pictures?
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I'm definitely interested in getting one of these from you. It'll be nice to have as I add stuff to my ride.
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I got the first board done using the laser printer method last night. I've still got some 'ironing' out to do (that's actually funny to me because I use an iron to transfer the toner to the PCB... haha), but it seems to work nicely. I have to get my hands on a band saw to cut the board into 3 pieces so I can etch the other 2 circuits for the 2 extra boxes I'll be making; but the first one looks good. I'll update when I get that done.
You are so the man. Good work.
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All right. As I said, the laser printer transfer method worked better than I expected. I have another hitch now though... The copper clad board I'm transferring the circuits to is just large enough to fit three of them (which is convenient since I'm building three of these) but I don't have a scroll saw any more :( I'm looking around for a cheap crappy one from like Harbor Tool or something. It's just got to cut copper clad boards, so a hot butter knife is almost good enough... I'm looking at about 70 bones or so to get a cheap one shipped to me. When I get it I'll cut this baby up and etch it. Then I can solder the junk on and test it finally. I've got the MAP adjuster done and tested for some time now, but I see it as pretty pointless to install it until I have a way of watching what it's doing to my jeeps Air Fuel ratio, so there it sits on the coffee table... watching... waiting... wondering when I'll touch it again... poor little guy :(
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Can you rough it out with a coping saw then clean it up with a file.
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I have neither here with me. I'm just going to suck it up and get the saw. I'll need it for other projects later anyway. I friggin should have brought my dad's old one with me. It'll cost more to ship it than it's worth now. Oh well.
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Any updates?? I'm dying to know!
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I'm going to provide the circuit diagram. I've got a Volvo 740 turbo I'm playing with right now, and I still am missing one damn part to finish making the air fuel ratio gauge. I will, however, get around to it sooner or later because this box will also help provide adjustment of the fuel mixture if one wants to run off of Ethanol instead of gasoline. It will prove even more usefull than I thought when I started making it. I just don't have a ton of time working at Intel.