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General Forums => The Mess Hall => Topic started by: stan98tj on August 11, 2012, 02:05:05 PM
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I know, not a 4banger, but my buddy is building up his JK and we were wondering about a few things.
His JK is an early edition 07 and rare in that he actually has a dana 35 rear. He currently runs 33" tires on a 3" lift. He wants to go to 35s and he wants the front and rear locked. 35s mean the d35 has to be junked, so he is swapping in a dana44. His auto transmission means 5.13 gears for optimal gearinng, so this means the front d30 has to go as well. He's saved up a bunch of cash for this and contacted East Coast Gear Supply to see what kind of a build list they suggested.
for the front end ECGS suggested:
-Rubi 44
-sleeve and gusset
-RCV cv joints
-chromoly shafts
-chromo heavy duty hubs and ball joints
a few other bells and whistles
Anyway, here is our question. While money isn't the problem, this build will be somewhere around 9k to do (this includes front and rear ARB lockers) but when I saw the Rubi 44 I began to wonder why they chose that axle. From my understanding, Rubi 44s are glorified dana30s. I figure that's why they want to sleeve and gusset it as well as chromo shafts. But, a wagoneer has a real dana 44. Could a front Wagoneer dana 44 be used as it would be stronger than a Rubi 44 and perhaps he wouldn't need to sleeve and gusset it?
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my guess is with a waggy D44 you'll have to cut and reweld the Cs to get the proper pinion angle and caster not to mention all the brackets (and probably the width is different also), you're better off with a JK D44 that you sleeve and gusset. The carrier and axle shafts are D44, i think only the tubes are D30 like, that's the weak area you need to take care of. if you can add a truss to it as well.
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Keep in mind that JK axles are't as weak as the TJ's axles. The JK Dana 30 are beefier then TJ Dana 30 as well, the JK Dana 44 to the TJ Dana 44. JK axles are wider as well. I believe they're 4" wider then the old YJ/TJ. I think a better option then a SJ would be a Full-Size Cab & Chassis which are around 65" WMS.
I'd also look into the J8 Mopar/Dynatrac Dana 60. It's set up for leafs so you'd have to convert it to coils.
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JK Dana 44's when done up with sleeves beefed up brackets and inner C's as well as some good chromos should do 37's just fine. The JK Dana 30 has 5.13 gears available
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JK Dana 44's when done up with sleeves beefed up brackets and inner C's as well as some good chromos should do 37's just fine. The JK Dana 30 has 5.13 gears available
Are you sure the JK 30 allows for 5.13? ECGS told my buddy he couldn't fit them. Also, would it even be wise to run that deep a gear in there? I don't know if he has a low or high pinion, but if it is low pinion, it wouldn't seem to be the best option to run such a deep gear while it pulls on the pinion, as opposed to high where it would at least be pushing on the pinion.
Also, he's running 35s which is why I was wondering if all that work on the front axle was even needed. From what I understand, the JK Rubi is only as strong as a Dana 30, so essentially they are sleeving and gusseting it to make it stronger. My question is why not start with a real 44 and skip the sleeving and gusseting. Run the RCV cv and chromo shafts, but skip the sleeve and gusset if he goes with a waggy 44. That is, if that 44 can fit. We've been asking around at our local Jeep meets and a few folks seem to think that JK Rubi 44s need the sleeve and gusset to run even a 35.
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i think low pinion allows 5.13, high pinion 4.88
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i think low pinion allows 5.13, high pinion 4.88
It's a bit more complicated then that. They basically redesigned the axles so they're a bit beefier all around, IIRC.
5.13's sounds good though.
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the jk d44s are high pinion.. the tubes look beefier than the tj d44. how do people break / bend the tubes other than when they go crazy and jump them (seen that first hand guy ripped both lower control arm mounts off the axle but thats another story)? although with a 4dr you have a lot more weight to deal with.
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Here ya go JK Dana 30 r and P http://www.4x4groupbuy.com/store/ring-pinion-gear-dana-p-49257.html 5.13 gear for a JK Dana 30
Sleeve the tubes weld some gussets on the inner C's stick an ausie locker in it add chromo's and go to town.
Why on earth would you bother to waste money on an old Waggy DaNA 44?
It has the thicker axle tubes, but it's low pinion, uses small u joints, weak stub shafts. The JK axles use a bigger U joint, main problem is the axle tubes and inner C are not up to offroad abuse, which is fairly easily resolved.
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So i take the diff housing is different than the older D30
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Then it doesn't seem reasonable to go with a dana 44rubi axle. He can just sleeve and gusset his dana 30, run 5.13 gears and chromo shafts and be all set.
I just wonder if that deep gear is borderline for the carrier.
For ex, when i was looking for gears, the guy who did mine advised against 4.88 on a low pinion because firstly it was pulling rather than pushing in, and there wouldn't be much tooth for it to grab. He advised I look for a high pinion for 4.88 gears or upgrade to a dana 44. Now, i wonder if in this case, although it is high pinion and is pushing rather than pulling, if there will be enough tooth to bite.
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A guy I know beefed up his JK D30 with sleeves, c-gussets, ARB locker, and RCV shafts. He run's 37s and usually does not break despite being fairly aggresive on the gas. However, he has replaced the R&P twice, so the D44 would be a better alternative.
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A guy I know beefed up his JK D30 with sleeves, c-gussets, ARB locker, and RCV shafts. He run's 37s and usually does not break despite being fairly aggresive on the gas. However, he has replaced the R&P twice, so the D44 would be a better alternative.
Looks like the d44 is going to be his choice. The JK is his DD and he doesn't have too much time to have the d30 taken out sleeved, gusseted, geared and locked and then resintall it. He's gonna be ordering the d44s from ECGS.
All the bells and whistles he's getting installed on those axles, including the front/rear ARBs and fox shocks and Currie upper/lower front/rear adjustable arms, his JK is gonna be a beast!
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The Waggy44 is the same width as a YJ/TJ axle so its too narrow for a JK.
If it were me, I'd find a 78/79 Ford front d44 from a 3/4t and cut it down to JK width. Benefits include thick axle tubes, high pinion, and large serviceable bearings.
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From what can be read on the internet the best way is to use the JK D44 until it bends and then get a Dynatrac replacement housing. Then you end up with a very strong housing (tubes, Cs, and center section), 1350 u-joints that are larger than normal D44 u-joints, and an 8.8 inch R&P.
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And you still end up with cheesy unit bearings, limited and expensive high steer options, and no locking hubs.
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so what's a good choice for a JK then?
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If I were going to wheel it, I'd upgrade to the parts I mentioned. No amount of sleeving or gussets will make the unit bearings survive oversized tires for any decent length of time.
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If I were going to wheel it, I'd upgrade to the parts I mentioned. No amount of sleeving or gussets will make the unit bearings survive oversized tires for any decent length of time.
cutting down the tubes would be quite challenging to get right, i'm sure is not a problem for you but for the rest of us (most of us) would be quite an adventure, i'd be worried to get all the angles right.
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And you still end up with cheesy unit bearings, limited and expensive high steer options, and no locking hubs.
The majority of jeepers never get true high steer nor locking hubs and are doing fine out having fun on pretty tough trails. The unit bearings are not so bad, they hold up reasonably well as long as the tires don't stick out too far. I know several guys who wheel JKs with 37s and they are not replacing unit bearings all the time. Locking hubs break too, the most extreme builds don't use them.
It's kind of hard to specify the ultimate D44. Some ground rules would need to be set down: budget, need for custom fab, whether or not to allow aftermarket parts, what vehicle it will go into, etc.
The main thing that allows the JK to run 37s is the stronger u-joints, which is what most often breaks first on all previous D44s. A close second is that the R&P is stronger. These are things that JK owners will find very hard to give up. They would probably get D60s before going with an earlier D44.
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My buddy is beefing up his Rubi 44 for his JK. RCV shafts, sleeve, gusset and heavy duty hubs. I watched a few vids on RCV products and they claim their Dana44 shafts essentially give the axle the strength of a stock Dana 60. I was pretty impressed and am thinking of beefing up my Dana 30 with them.
https://www.youtube.com/v/5L_gaycyglk?
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after watching the vid my understanding is that what they're saying is the joint is as strong as the stock D60 ujoint, not the axle.
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Going opinion is that a built and beefed up JK Dana 44 is adequate for 37's so Stan have your buddy do his thing and then have fun wheelin.
As for you the RCV axles would not be3 a bad investment or any good chrome axle setup for that matter.