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General Forums => The Mess Hall => Topic started by: tbirde7 on September 11, 2012, 07:02:03 PM
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Hey all, been searching the forum and web on this question but haven't found anything.
I had a friend pick me up a 136a alt from his local pick-n-pull.
1998-2000 Dodge Ram Pickup - (PN:56027913AB Reman:R6027913AC)
On the back it has a plug instead of the threaded posts. I was thinking that I could just identify the wires (he got the plug connector. White/blu stripe and a solid green) and just use some eyelet terminals and hook it up since they are the field wires. Another site I read said this alternator is internally regulated.
So question is will it work?
He got it awhile back and just got it to me so to late to take it back but I'm thinking it should work but not sure now.
Thanks
Mike
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7913 is externally regulated by the PCM, i have one on my Jeep, was the same on some GC models.
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Hey sharp, cool thanks so I am right in the fact all I need to do is break out the multimeter and trace the connections and hook up right?
Thanks
Mike
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Hey sharp, cool thanks so I am right in the fact all I need to do is break out the multimeter and trace the connections and hook up right?
Thanks
Mike
hmm, sorry man i take it back, i think mine might be 1693AC but i can't confirm until i check it again which would be most likely in couple of days, i thought it was 7913 but i just checked the list and it's not found on GC so i'm not sure anymore.
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No prob, if you don't mind let me know what you find out, I'm not going to proceed with that upgrade until I found out for sure, hopefully if anyone else has read post they will chime in.
Thanks
Mike
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I didn't think there was an easy way to use one of those late model alternators.
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Hey Jeffy, man I dunno with this thing I found info on one site that said it was internally regulated and you wouldn't need to put a fuse inline to the battery, then one site said its controlled by PCM and guy said he hooked white/blue striped wire to the green/orange striped on jeep as its showed 12 volts.
Dunno what's what other than wire colors being similar.
LoL
Mike
Might just need to get another one and make sure it has the posts.
Dunno
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before you get another one you can always take it apart and see if it has a regulator inside, some of them were built so you can change the regulator and brushes without splitting it in half (2 bolts and the regulator with brushes on it would come off).
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Love this forum I bet I have looked at that alt atleast 30 times and the light bulb never came on to open it up, LoL
Thanks Sharp
Mike
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Keep in mind that all of the screws and bolts are probably metric and the screw heads JIS. If you're not careful, you can strip the screw heads easily.
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i did a bit of reading and apparently the 56027913 was found in GCs (around '98) and 56027913AB was a Dakota alternator
the AB has an internal regulator
i think though that you might be able to disconnect and bypass the regulator or just use it the way it was meant to be (use +12v switched to power the regulator)
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Update, finally after three days of wiring schematics and staying up most of the night I got the whole setup done, did the volvo relay, taurus fan, saab inline adapter, audi temp sensor, and 136a Alternator.
took the cover off 136a alternator didn't see no regulator just the brush plate like whats on the two post. Also with the aid of a flashlight there was a label on alternator that was faded out and using the flashlight to get a beam of light in the right spot, it states externally regulated. I also took the time to add my optima battery, using the side posts with 2/0 guage wire and a 150A waterproof Circuit Breaker from Autozone with the 136a Alt wired straight to it. Also upgraded the PDC feeder from top post side of battery as well.
Now scratching my head looking at schematic trying to find an A/C command signal so that fan comes on once selector is moved. Right now using the drk blu/blk from the A/C relay at PDC to turn fan on using a relay to ground SPDT. Only problem is the fan turns on and off as the clutch does so dunno if there is a better way not liking that though. Its gotta wait got to work tonight.
Mike
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I guess you haven't read any of my threads then... If you have AC and want the fan to stay on you will need to make a Y-harness between the blower switch and the thermostat. You took the signal after the thermostat which is why it turns on and off with the compressor clutch. Really there's not reason to have the fan on when the compressor is not on and the only time that's really necessary is when stopped.
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Oh forgot to mention that on the connector of the 136a alt I did drk grn (Pigtail) to drk grn (Jeep wire) on wire and wht/blu (Pigtail) to grn/orange (Jeep wire) using crimped eyelets and small screws, that way if ever need to put stock alt back on no prolems. Also used one of the case bolts for the ground.
Mike
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Actually started searching last night after reviewing the schematic until got a headache but guess I wasn't using right buzz words, good to know it's out there. Hmmm, some reason I was thinking that the fan constantly cutting off and on with compressor would shorten life of fan and relay. Might just let it ride then will ponder on it and look for your thread on the harness while I'm at work tonight.
Thanks
Mike
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Actually started searching last night after reviewing the schematic until got a headache but guess I wasn't using right buzz words, good to know it's out there. Hmmm, some reason I was thinking that the fan constantly cutting off and on with compressor would shorten life of fan and relay. Might just let it ride then will ponder on it and look for your thread on the harness while I'm at work tonight.
Thanks
Mike
Well on the Wranglers the fan runs all the time since it's engine driven. I think the Cherokee's run the aux fan all the time when the AC is on. Every aftermarket setup I've seen has the fan run off the clutch signal though. I decided to go this rount so the fan isn't running while I'm on the highway.
Anytime you're moving the fan is turning anyway so there should be less wear on the motor if it has to start up. If you're idling for an extended period, your fan should be turning on eventually anyway in which case it should override the clutch signal. Relays are cheap though. I'd rather have to replace a relay then the fan. I haven't had any issues with relays since I changed out my wiring and connectors. Before that I was melting fuse holders and the relay terminals because of the increased resistance in the cheap connectors.
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Well knock on wood so far so good, going to work last night was the first distance test of the new setups and everything went well. Jeffy, yea makes sense on the relays, I have atleast 3 more in my electrical box so most likely gonna let it be. Well I have 2 of the 3 upgrades that have the biggest priority done, the next task is to do something with those headlights, just doesn't seem to light up the road enough for my old eyes, LoL. So gonna start searching the forum and web for some other options.
Thanks again for the info
Mike
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Hella E-Code's are great replacements.
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Hella E-Code's are great replacements.
Yep
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I've had the E-codes, great highway lights, I have Cibie inserts (Not DOT) and like them better for the near ground illumination. Both beat the snot out of the old sealed beams.
Cheers.
Dave
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Good to go thanks, just ordered them with 100/80w bulbs will upgrade wiring on headlights as well.
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do you have a daytime running lights module? it might not work if you do, just a heads up.
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Nope don't have DRL's. Got to lights with bulbs for $110 that's not bad.
Thanks
Mike
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I just used the DOT legal 60/55w bulbs since they're really cheap. Even with stock wiring, the new lights are a HUGE improvement over the old ones. Not sure if I'd go with 100/80's personally. I do too much town/city driving. You just have to make sure you get E-code housings and not DOT housings. The lens makes a huge difference.
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Will do. I'll try stock bulbs first.
Thanks
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You can get H4 65/100 bulbs as well.
Its what I run, keeps the low beams low and the high beams high...
Cheers.
Dave
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Well got good news and bad.
Good: ordered of the hella lights in and installed difference is literally night and day great upgrade. Thanks for recommendation.
Bad: jeep was running fine no problems at all.
(History: 4.0 TB upgrade, headers, optima red cell battery, 136a alt upgrade 6ga wire to 150a CB to side post with orig wire to PDC eliminated. Also newer style pig tail not posts grn to grn / bl/wht to grn/org. Top post PDC feeder upgraded. Taurus fan/volvo relay setup wired to external Fuse block to pos side post of battery. 2/0 ga ground and hella light upgrade)
So Saturday went off road scouting for new deer stand site went through some mud and low water. Ran fine there and home. Drove sat night no problems new lights awesome.
Drove pic-n-pull Sunday morning no problems. Washed vehicle (hood closed) and up under fender wells sat about 2 hours got in to go to work get bout 5 miles down road and check guages light comes on and all guages are at rest. Monday morning pull 136a alt took to Advance don't think kid really new how to test but said alt was not being excited and was bad. Went home and put old alt back on new pigtail removed. Started jeep still isn't charging.
So do you guys think this is just bad luck, or something got wet or dunno.
I know Alt is regulated by PCM and I'm going to check all connections again for a 3rd time but is there something else before I look into buying a PCM. The orig alt worked fine and that's what my head is wrapped around right now, alt just don't go bad sitting on shelf.
Thanks
Mike
Haven't had time to have old alt tested yet at work now.
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Find an alternator that is self exciting and has a internal regulator and never look back.
we have several hundred trucks at work and about the only alternator we use is a 130 amp Nippon Denso that's self exciting and has an internal regulator.
This and some of the big Delco's are extremely reliable alternators.
If you can get one of those to fit, you would not have to fudge with the PCM, all it needs is a charge wire to the battery and that's it
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check what voltage you're getting from the PCM to the alternator, if its 0 (zero) then the PCM is bad (might have been the alt swap that caused it but i ran mine for years w/o problems but it's not an AB and was a direct swap as i didn't have to add a pigtail).
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Plan on testing further once get off work it's got my head crazy as everything was fine. During the upgrade I had tin covers off both alternators and traced points to ensure the pigtail was wired correctly even traced all way back to PCM. It's just weird. If it is PCM thought about doing external regulator but would be my luck a check engine light would pop or something else would go wrong.
Thanks
Mike
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read the codes, put key contact on 3 times in a row and leave it on the last time, if you have a digital display odo will show the codes on it, if you dont the CEL will blink the codes with a pause between them (check faq for a more detailed explanation)
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Well alternator tested fine checked all connections for a 3rd time, checked for voltage at field wires when running both show zero, so somehow regulator got messed up guy at local rebuild shop said I can wire external regulator from early Chrysler but most likely throw a code told me to try it and he would check to see if there is a work around if it does throw a code on way to O'reillys to get parts $25 investment to save $400 hope it works.
Sharp will follow procedures for checking codes if it does throw one I also have a scan tool.
Thanks
Mike
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i guess the question is why would this alternator bust the regulator in the PCM :uhoh:
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i guess the question is why would this alternator bust the regulator in the PCM :uhoh:
Is that rhetorical? :wall:
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Is that rhetorical? :wall:
no, i'm really wondering, i can't see why that happened - i run the same alternator (without the AB suffix) and didn't have any issues, so just makes me think there's something wrong with the one he has (shorted maybe, don't know).
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no, i'm really wondering, i can't see why that happened - i run the same alternator (without the AB suffix) and didn't have any issues, so just makes me think there's something wrong with the one he has (shorted maybe, don't know).
I thought you're using the alternator that's 100% bolt-on?
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I thought you're using the alternator that's 100% bolt-on?
yes, it is out of a GC, same p/n but w/o the AB at the end, didn't need to make any mods to it other than the usual plastic thingy to rotate at the output
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yes, it is out of a GC, same p/n but w/o the AB at the end, didn't need to make any mods to it other than the usual plastic thingy to rotate at the output
That's what I figured. The pigtails sounds a bit sketchy.
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Well more bad news, went and bought external regulator and connector guy at local rebuild shop tested both old alternator and one with pigtail adapter both tested good. Even said pigtail connections were correct. Went to pick-n-pull got right 136a alt out of dodge Dakota went and had it tested to just to eliminate pigtail connector thing. Well made my harness for external regulator found my 12v ignition source and wired it up started jeep checked for voltage and Zip, notta, nothing, still running off battery then jeep starts running like crap, spitting and sputtering, AC coming on and controls turned off, starts idling high then cuts off. So at this point say heck with it all and call stealership and guy says $600 just for PCM, that wasn't happening. Guy told me to check PCM connection as I told him whole story that jeep was running fine until I washed it. So disconnected battery and unplug each one 2 out of 3 rubber seals were ripped and it smelt burnt. Jumped on google found site ordered and suppose to have reman'd PCM flashed and ready to go by COB Friday. $235 total so really hoping that this does the trick.
Man I hope nothing else goes wrong.
Thanks for all the info
Mike
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if you had an external regulator the PCM was out of the loop, so in that case should have charged regardless - i'm wondering if you have a wiring issue of some sort?
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I thought the same thing. I have many folks scratching their heads over this had 3 people at one time on the jeep poking and scrambling around wiring and what not. Dunno; anyway good news, PCM showed up and installed, jeep running right now, it's alive hoping it stays that way. Taking the pigtail alternator back to pic-n-pull as my core. Still scrambling my brain over this one, friend thinks the external regulator was bad off shelf. Dunno, know its possible, but doesn't matter. Wasn't really happy with the thought of having the external regulator on there anyway. Getting ready to go for a test drive hopefully its good to go.
Got PCM from Auto Computer ECM out of Tilden, IL. 888-587-3019
$220 free shipping extra $15 for overnight. $235 total.
Appreciate all the advice
Mike