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General Forums => The Mess Hall => Topic started by: minespath on September 13, 2012, 08:40:14 PM
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Notice a loss of power ,was told need timing chain,could timing chain cause that,
Have a 97tj ,2.5 auto 3 speed ,31 bfgs& 4.56 gears,don't want to go to v8 yet ,Any help would be good
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Notice a loss of power ,was told need timing chain,could timing chain cause that,
Have a 97tj ,2.5 auto 3 speed ,31 bfgs& 4.56 gears,don't want to go to v8 yet ,Any help would be good
Does the Jeep run like crap? Does it idle OK?... A loss in power could be anything. I think a clogged muffler would be higher up on the list of things to check.
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No not muffler ,got a bank one a few months ago and a magnaflo cat,idle pretty god ,some chatter ,but can the chain cause some loss,doin 60at 3100 rpm on a mild incline
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Trying to avoid the swap for now a lot of $$$ in NYC to have done
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Dirty injectors, fuel filter, spark plugs (My YJ has never gotten more than 15K miles out of a set... It does not like japanes plugss I actually get the best life out of Champion or Autolight and I'm a die hard NGK fan...
Bad computer coolant sensor will screw things up big time...
Dave
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Dirty injectors, fuel filter, spark plugs (My YJ has never gotten more than 15K miles out of a set... It does not like japanes plugss I actually get the best life out of Champion or Autolight and I'm a die hard NGK fan...
Bad computer coolant sensor will screw things up big time...
Dave
Always liked NGK too but Jeep does not like you said been running Autolight.
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If all thing are good except timing chain could it cause the lose of power alone
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it could but i doubt that's your problem
if it needs a timing chain you should replace it but how was that determined?
have you checked the fuel pump and fuel filter, if you have no misfires that's the most common issue (cat too but you said it was recently replaced).
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I basically have the same setup other than the gears. I'm getting my auto rebuilt. I've replaced the filter about a year ago and flushed 1/2 of the fluid (can't do a real flush in my garage). Flushing a trans at home is very time consuming, fluid expensive, etc. You can only dilute the mixture. The trans needed rebuild as it was 'tired'. Shifts weren't quisp. THey were smooth. All gears went that way. Trans guy took it for a ride and said all this for when it was shifting. He manually shifted and showed the difference for being in the proper rpm range and how the trans shifts. Any type of hill I ran into, foot was to the floor. If the trans didn't down shift, I would do it manually. THis shows the trans is slipping and heating itself. I do have an extra cooler on it. Trans guy says that is not necessary for the way I use my TJ. Heat does hurt the auto, but I'm not generating any trans heat per se. Putting the trans into a load, constant or some time, creates heat. Crawling on the trails, driving on the street, etc doesn't create heat that the original cooling can't handle. There is a 'ball valve' on the cooling lines (feeder to the cooler) where Dodge added a plastic ball to minimize the amount of drain the trans gets just parked.
Rebuilt trans, flushed cooling system and I'll be good to go. I'm doing the swap myself as my skid probably won't go back up once taken off. So I'm building a flat skid and doubling the tcase. I'm expecting to do this in about a month.
Get the trans checked out by couple auto trans people. See if you can find someone that you trust to rebuild rather than a shop. A more personal experince I prefer for those with knowledge rather than a shop convincing you what you need.
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You cant over-cool an automatic transmission. (IMHO)
You want the temp of the fluid < 180. 170 is pretty good.
Its really common for a stock tranny to hit 240 in city driving.
Automatics heat up more in slow situations that cruising at speed cause
the torque converter is working harder.
Cheers
Dave
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You cant over-cool an automatic transmission. (IMHO)
You want the temp of the fluid < 180. 170 is pretty good.
Its really common for a stock tranny to hit 240 in city driving.
Automatics heat up more in slow situations that cruising at speed cause
the torque converter is working harder.
Cheers
Dave
There's actually a minimum operating temperature for most transmissions. I only know this from looking it up when I was installing an aux tranny cooler on my RV for towing a while back. There was an option for a bypass for the aux cooler when in cold climates. The radiator cooler actually helps heat it up the tranny faster, then the aux helps maintain a safe range, but in extreme cold the aux cooler could actually drop the temp too much.
https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=cache:xhd_G8CT5v8J:www.bulkpart.com/Merchant2/graphics/00000002/Bypass-Instructions-by-MK.pdf+&hl=en&gl=us&pid=bl&srcid=ADGEESiCZkkNBRiyY8wnnTpnZyO4T0Y8sBbpOx3S-EkY8seB3Q4FEJJ5FbkJCe3-qy1ymchavinz8armTMXXe45NTvRf384ZzmmA2GSkuI3J8cHz3MSeaglbv8rg0ru1DaeeZ5ljlEG3&sig=AHIEtbQHVA6Cddw3cP7vavNaxxseyLEtjQ (https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=cache:xhd_G8CT5v8J:www.bulkpart.com/Merchant2/graphics/00000002/Bypass-Instructions-by-MK.pdf+&hl=en&gl=us&pid=bl&srcid=ADGEESiCZkkNBRiyY8wnnTpnZyO4T0Y8sBbpOx3S-EkY8seB3Q4FEJJ5FbkJCe3-qy1ymchavinz8armTMXXe45NTvRf384ZzmmA2GSkuI3J8cHz3MSeaglbv8rg0ru1DaeeZ5ljlEG3&sig=AHIEtbQHVA6Cddw3cP7vavNaxxseyLEtjQ)
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There is a rule of thumb for hydraulic fluids that for every 20 degrees over 160* you half the life of the fluid. Cooler is better aslong as its still above 120 so its not too thick. Wnet to a convention where the speaker kept ripping on car manufactuers for having coolers in the radiator that heat the trany fluid..
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If you were a car manufacturer and you built a transmission that would outlast the car ,, meaning you sell half as many,, what would you do??
LOL As long as the fluid gets to min temperature, your good. The radiator is 210 ish when running. Thats almost 40 degrees over the breakdown point of most engine oils... A seperate tranny cooler with a 100 degree bypass is ideal...
I added a trans temp gauge to a TH400. It took under 5 minutes to get to temp and went over 240 in a stock vehicle.
With the tranny cooler I got it down to 180 and that car went 300K before I sold it, never changed the fluid, I've done this several times with various vehicles. If you live in a really cold climate, just put the tranny cooler behind the radiator to keep the air temp above freezing.
Cheers
Dave
There's actually a minimum operating temperature for most transmissions. I only know this from looking it up when I was installing an aux tranny cooler on my RV for towing a while back. There was an option for a bypass for the aux cooler when in cold climates. The radiator cooler actually helps heat it up the tranny faster, then the aux helps maintain a safe range, but in extreme cold the aux cooler could actually drop the temp too much.
https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=cache:xhd_G8CT5v8J:www.bulkpart.com/Merchant2/graphics/00000002/Bypass-Instructions-by-MK.pdf+&hl=en&gl=us&pid=bl&srcid=ADGEESiCZkkNBRiyY8wnnTpnZyO4T0Y8sBbpOx3S-EkY8seB3Q4FEJJ5FbkJCe3-qy1ymchavinz8armTMXXe45NTvRf384ZzmmA2GSkuI3J8cHz3MSeaglbv8rg0ru1DaeeZ5ljlEG3&sig=AHIEtbQHVA6Cddw3cP7vavNaxxseyLEtjQ (https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=cache:xhd_G8CT5v8J:www.bulkpart.com/Merchant2/graphics/00000002/Bypass-Instructions-by-MK.pdf+&hl=en&gl=us&pid=bl&srcid=ADGEESiCZkkNBRiyY8wnnTpnZyO4T0Y8sBbpOx3S-EkY8seB3Q4FEJJ5FbkJCe3-qy1ymchavinz8armTMXXe45NTvRf384ZzmmA2GSkuI3J8cHz3MSeaglbv8rg0ru1DaeeZ5ljlEG3&sig=AHIEtbQHVA6Cddw3cP7vavNaxxseyLEtjQ)
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If you were a car manufacturer and you built a transmission that would outlast the car ,, meaning you sell half as many,, what would you do??
LOL As long as the fluid gets to min temperature, your good. The radiator is 210 ish when running. Thats almost 40 degrees over the breakdown point of most engine oils... A seperate tranny cooler with a 100 degree bypass is ideal...
I added a trans temp gauge to a TH400. It took under 5 minutes to get to temp and went over 240 in a stock vehicle.
With the tranny cooler I got it down to 180 and that car went 300K before I sold it, never changed the fluid, I've done this several times with various vehicles. If you live in a really cold climate, just put the tranny cooler behind the radiator to keep the air temp above freezing.
Cheers
Dave
I concur. In theory, if the engine is operating right, the cooling system radiator should get cooler than 200 degrees, especially at the bottom of the radiator while driving. That's why there's a thermostat to maintain the proper temperature for emissions. Now Jeeps, on the other hand, probably never would run cooler at freeway speeds - without modification.
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Lot of the overdrive transmissions will not go into overdrive when the trans fluid temp is to low, is part of the OBD2 strategy. So in that case keeping fluid to cool would not be a good thing
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dunno about overdrive but my '86 camaro won't lock the t/c until it warms up (the relay is controlled by the ECU), same idea i think.
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So wouldn't it make sense to:
1. Get it as low as you can and still keep the computer happy.
2. Lie like a rug to the ECO and fool it to making sure you can run in the
180 range where the fluid is happy?
I know my jeep runs at 210 with the stock 195 stat and 190 with a 180 stat
(Yes I have the stuff to make sure, I just fought a doa guage sensor last week... )
Yes lower temps at the bottom of the radiator.. BUT the relative heat transfer has to
be higher to cool the fluid, so the water in the radiator would have to be down around
160 to get the tranny fluid to 190.. the "delta T" has to be
about 30 degrees to get significant thermal transfer.
I test this kind of stuff for a living. Part of my job is making sure IT spaces are cooled correctly.
Cheers.
Dave
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When you say loss of power, where at in the rpm range and how drastic?
You can retard or advance a cam a few degrees to move the power band. Retarding moves the power higher rpm. As you timing chain stretches it retards the cam slightly. And our engines need the power in top. I would use a good wag to say we are talking about 2 or 4 horsepower. We are talk some where around 4-6 degrees.
The stretch of a chain the the difference in power for our engine would be spaced out over years and nearly 100000 miles as it would not be noticeable to people until you replace it and even then it will be small in this size and type of engine. The only way a power loss could be sudden from a cam chain would be that it became so loose that it skipped a tooth but by that point it would be making a hell of a racket at idle as it slapped the cover. If it's not slapping the cover your problem is most assuredly else where!