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General Forums => The Mess Hall => Topic started by: mrcabinet on December 09, 2012, 01:00:04 PM
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If I remember correctly, there's a couple of guys on here running the Yella Terra rocker arms in conjunction with cams. I would like to hear from anyone that is running them without a modified cam. I have some funds in the Jeep's piggy bank that need to be spent before the end of the year, and I am thinking that they would go well with all the other "standard" mod.s that I have done. Any and all feedback is appreciated!
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i would like to know as well... i am looking at the roller rockers now and will be doing a mild cam soon...
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i don't run them but this is what i can tell you from my measurements:
the stock rockers are supposed to be 1.6 ratio, however due to flex they are more 1.52
with any roller rockers you'll be getting the advertised ration (1.6 or 1.7 or whatever they are), so even with a 1.6 same as stock you will see an improvement.
you can run roller rockers with the stock cam, no issues there
if you use a more aggressive cam you might need springs, depends on lift and overlap/separation, higher lift and 1.7 most likely requires a rework of the head/vakves to get more travel so the spring dish and stem retainers won't hit the seal and guide.
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I run them on a modified cam (MOPAR one). They are not cheap, and the difference they make is not HUGE (I would rate it as not that noticeable), but my mind feels more at ease with them on. I even ran them for a looooong while with the stock springs without issues, but later changed to stiffer springs just in case (actually, I bought them, but I dont remember if I ever installed them; they may be in the warehouse in Panama!!!) :wall:
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Thanks for the input! According to their rep., YT does make 1.7 rockers for the 2.5, but he couldn't say if I'd need a cover spacer or different springs. I like the thought of the 1.7's but don't want to run into any issues if I order them.
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you don't need different springs, i measured the clearance with 1.7 roller rockers and works just fine with a stock cam. Forgot about the valve cover, you probably need a riser or a makeshift cover (i have 2 i plan to cut and weld together to make a taller one) but i don't know if that applies to the stock cam or not.
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Wouldnt the 1.7 and stock cam be about the same as the 1.6 with the more aggressive cam? That's what I run, and they dont hit the cover... by the way, the cam is a .450 lift 256 duration Mopar High Performance camshaft.
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Wouldnt the 1.7 and stock cam be about the same as the 1.6 with the more aggressive cam? That's what I run, and they dont hit the cover... by the way, the cam is a .450 lift 256 duration Mopar High Performance camshaft.
depends on the cam and resulting lift at the valve, with more lift you might need different retainers and dishes or even longer valves, in that case the rockers might sit higher as you would need to line-up the tip of the rocker with the valve stem and to make sure the angle and position is proper thru the whole valve travel, you would probably need longer pushrods in that case.
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Hmmm. I think I'll try calling them tomorrow and see if I can get more details on the 1.7. Their e-mail responses are painfully slow.
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Hmmm. I think I'll try calling them tomorrow and see if I can get more details on the 1.7. Their e-mail responses are painfully slow.
they're in Australia (unless they have an office here).
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Hmmm. I think I'll try calling them tomorrow and see if I can get more details on the 1.7. Their e-mail responses are painfully slow.
I've emailed them before and got a response in a reasonable amount of time.
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You're right about being in Australia, but they do have an office in Mississippi. I'll try contacting them next week.
The sales rep that previously e-mailed me said that both the 1.6 and 1.7 are true bolt ons and shouldn't require any modifications to the springs or valve cover. The 1.7 are a standard item for the 4.0 but a special for the 2.5l. I have the part number for the 1.6, but I'd really like to get a part number for the 1.7 so I can shop around for them. He also strongly suggested checking the push rod length if installing the 1.7, but I'd be out of my comfort zone if I got into that aspect of it.
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Put a Set of Harland Sharp 1.7 s in back in march and have been very happy with the performance .Just order 8 of the I6 rockers . :beers:
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Would you happen to have a part number for those? All I saw on harland's web site was the 1.6's. How was the install? Any modifications to the pushrods, springs or valve cover? Most importantly, how was performance and gas mileage affected?
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if you call harland sharp and tell them you want to order 8 of the inline 6 rollers 1.7 ratio they will take care of you. Simply remove the factory rockers and rocker stands and replace with your new Harland Sharp roller rockers. no mods required to rods and valve cover. performance stroke was increased through out the power range . i get 15 mpg. the higher octane gas you run, the better your performance. hope this helps . happy holidays
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Here's the response that I received from Harland Sharp:
If you only need 8 rockers then I suggest purchasing them in pairs. The part # would be 40196-1 and you would need 4. In order to get a 1.7:1 ratio you would have to custom order them. With a 1.7:1 on the 4.0 you have pushrod clearance in the head and they don’t work. So make sure you have room to move the cup in before you order them. The cost would be around $275 + shipping. Let me know if you would like to order them. Thanks
Randy Becker Jr.
Harland Sharp / Custom Speed Parts
19769 Progress Dr.
Strongsville, OH 44149
Phone: (440) 238-3260
Fax: (440) 238-2204
Web: www.harlandsharp.com
The price is certainly more attractive than the Yella Terra. But, If what he says is correct, does the 2.5 have more rod clearance in the head than the 4.0? If not, then the 1.7 sound like they'd require more modification to work than I am comfortable doing.
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I have some trouble understanding what he meant there, only thing i can relate to is during my testing with the chevy roller rockers came to light that I need to deburr the casting off the pushrod openings in the head, it's very close but it works, i think the newer 4.0L heads have smaller openings (can't remember exactly who but one of our members had replaced his hyd lifters and posted a photo to show us that you can't just pull the lifters out anymore but you need to take the head off) - maybe that's what this guy was referring to.
as far as the "room to move the cup in" comment i cannot think of anything.
EDIT: maybe he meant to say "you _don't_ have _enough_ pushrod clearance in the head" or "you have pushrod clearance _issues_ in the head and they don't work" which would have made sense
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mrcabinet what year is your wrangler? im not sure what he is talking about either. on my 1990 yj i had no problems with clearance .i did replace my rods with new stock rods while i was in there . my yj is TBI . ,Dont know if a multi port injected head has different clearance then mine. hope this helps. :beers:
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I know its been a while, but I just finally ordered a set of the Harland Sharp 1.6 rockers today. I was a little gun shy of the 1.7 after what he said about the clearance issues. Since I haven't been able to find any other info, will I be safe using the Yella Terra installation instructions? (http://www.quadratec.com/Assets/Installation/30759.pdf) I'm going to change the push rods while I'm in there and use an actual valve cover gasket.
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yeah, those H/S 1.7 require a valve cover spacer, upside is they are adjustable (I dont think Yella Terra are).
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Since I haven't been able to find any other info, will I be safe using the Yella Terra installation instructions? (http://www.quadratec.com/Assets/Installation/30759.pdf) I'm going to change the push rods while I'm in there and use an actual valve cover gasket.
definitely change the pushrods, if i were you I would replace the lifters also.
as far as instructions they're straight forward, but i would check the lifter preload when installing them - for the stock bolts which are 5/16-18 should be between 1/2 turn and 3/4 turn somewhere in the middle (it's 27 thou for 1/2 turn). The way i do it i get the left hand index finger and thumb covered in cam assembly lube and twist the pushrod left/right while finger tightening the bolt (just barely touching the pushrod enoungh to make it twist), when the pushrod stops turning you're at 0 preload, from there you should be able to go up to 1 full turn or very slightly over that (.060 should be your max preload, the bolt advances .055 per turn). I put a dot with a marker on the pushrod so i can tell when it stops turning.
keep us posted how it goes, you should have gone with the 1.7 but the valve cover makes it challenging, i'm still working on finishing mine, have another 5'' or so to weld and then paint it - it's been a pain cleaning and degreasing the 2 halves and taking the powdercoat off (unless it's a really strong paint but i doubt it as it's really hard to take off) and still had contamination here and there.
EDIT: i believe you can get shims for the pedestals under the rockers to adjust to proper preload for the yella terra, harland and hesco ones.
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I had always heard that you shouldn't change the lifters unless you're changing the cam shaft too, supposedly because they're "worn in" and wouldn't ride correctly on the cam. Is that not the case?
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what do you do if there's a bad lifter that is making noise? you can replace the lifters, reason i'm saying you should is because it is a known issue with the AMC 2.5 (noisy lifters) so while you're in there might as well take care of it, they can be had cheap enough but i would suggest a name brand (like clevite).
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i just read some of the instructions and they are saying pretty much the same thing about preload, there are also shims provided in the kit so you should be covered. They do however say 1-1/2 turns but i think that's too far (you'd end up with little over .080 preload, i wouldnt go more than .060).
4/ Taking note of the zero free play point, evenly tighten the two mounting bolts to 25
ft lbs. Ideally this should be ½ to ¾ turns from the zero free play point.
5/ More than 1 ½ turns will require installation of the silver spacer washers supplied
in the kit under the mounting pedestals on the head side.
6/ In very unusual circumstances when less than ¼ turn is required to achieve correct
torque setting, the rocker pedestal spacers will need to be shortened (clearance
between base of rocker and stud pad must be maintained.)
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I went ahead and picked up a set of lifters. Can't hurt, right? I know Yella Terra includes shims with their kits, but am not sure if HS does. I'll email them and see if they can throw a few in.
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you need a strong (good) magnetic tool to pull them out. Also buy some cam assembly lube and pour on the cams and on the lifters before installing them.
EDIT:
I went ahead and picked up a set of lifters. Can't hurt, right? I know Yella Terra includes shims with their kits, but am not sure if HS does. I'll email them and see if they can throw a few in.
harland sharp are adjustable so you wouldn't need shims (so they won't be including any).
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Actually, the 40196 that I ordered are non-adjustable. The 40196A are the adjustable ones. I haven't heard back yet regarding my request to send some shims with the rockers.
A few years back I had a non-engine related assembly project that I needed a tool to grab the inside lip of some stainless inserts, so I have a lifter removal tool that I can actually use what it was intended for now!
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Got the rockers, push rods and new lifters installed today. I should have gone with the 1.7 after all - there's plenty of room in there. The rockers were a piece of cake (only needed 2 shims), but the lifters were a royal PITA! they came out easily but were a real booger getting them back in. At one point I even considered getting a new gasket and pulling the head. It probably would have been faster!
First impressions are positive - smoother, quieter, a little more low end torque and it definitely revs up faster and easier. On my "test hill" by my house, I typically hit it at 55 and then have to down shift to 4th, then 3rd to make it over the top at 45. Today I only downshifted to 4th and crested it at 50. So, all in all, a nice little upgrade to compliment the other mod.s that have been done.
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Got the rockers, push rods and new lifters installed today. I should have gone with the 1.7 after all - there's plenty of room in there. The rockers were a piece of cake (only needed 2 shims), but the lifters were a royal PITA! they came out easily but were a real booger getting them back in. At one point I even considered getting a new gasket and pulling the head. It probably would have been faster!
First impressions are positive - smoother, quieter, a little more low end torque and it definitely revs up faster and easier. On my "test hill" by my house, I typically hit it at 55 and then have to down shift to 4th, then 3rd to make it over the top at 45. Today I only downshifted to 4th and crested it at 50. So, all in all, a nice little upgrade to compliment the other mod.s that have been done.
yeah, there's plenty of room but in my case it was hitting up front (on the end closest to the radiator), if you look at the valve cover it comes at an angle and not straight like in the back. Even without that part being slanted i think would have probably hit the breather baffles. If you get the adjustable ones they're taller.