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General Forums => The Mess Hall => Topic started by: DanMarino on February 06, 2013, 01:24:32 PM
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All,
I have a 1994 YJ with the original clutch and the AX5 manual transmission. The vehicle has 183,000 miles. It has started to become difficult to shift the transmission into 1st gear from Neutral when the vehicle is stopped. All other shifting works well.
Any ideas what is going on?
I'm thinking it's time to replace the clutch, but I'm wondering if something may be wrong with the synchros or something else internal to the transmission.
What else should I look into replacing while when the clutch is done?
Thanks for any advice you might have to offer.
13
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I know mine can be hard when I come to a stop when it's cold. I just live with it though since it doesn't grind otherwise. Once mine warms up it's ok. You might try replacing the fluid with something like MT-90.
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Mines been like that since I 1st got it. I've had mine since 1995.
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Drain the oil and look for brass glitter, that's shavings from your synchonizers. Redline MT90 is a sythetic and often improves poor shifting, even in cold weather.
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when you're at a stop you should still be able to shift even if the syncro on the 1st gear is bad (not as quick but should still go in) - to test if it's the syncro, stop the engine then start it with the clutch pedal pressed, try to shift with your foot on the clutch pedal, if it shifts fine it's the syncro so all you have to do when shifting first is to press the clutch and wait a little for the input shaft to come to a rest, otherwise if it's the same (during the test starting the engine with the clutch pedal to the floor) then my bet is on the pressure plate or clutch master/slave problem. the less likely would be a broken clutch spring with a piece stuck between the plate/flywheel and the clutch disc (in which case you'd have issues with the rest of the gears). Another thing you can try is to shift in 2nd rather than 1st, if it does the same then it's the pressure plate or master/slave issue.
could also be a combination of both (bad press plate and a worn syncro).
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The AX-5 and AX-15 have had a LONG standing issue with hard shifts when cold, usually with 1st and 2nd. Usually a fluid change helps if not fixes the issue all together.
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for what its worth thick oil should make it easier to shift when at a standstill and not rolling at all (keeps the input from rotating), when moving even the slightest you're right, shifting sucks when cold (so does NV3550 unless you use the recommended Mopar gear lubricant which is very thin compared to regular one) - don't ask me how i know :).
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when you come to a stop, clutch down, shift into Reverse or 2nd, then shift into 1st. See if that works.
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Thanks for the great suggestions. I'll give them a try and report back.
Typically when I come to a stop and put the car in neutral I have difficulty getting it up into 1st gear when ready to take off again.
I usually shift into 3rd or 2nd and then am able to shift into 1st to get going.
A local off-road shop has given me an estimate of around $1,400 to install a good used AX5, plus all new related clutch items.
I'm unsure if I can install a clutch myself. I have read that some people recommend removing the tranny and engine as a unit instead of dropping the tranny from below.
I'll change fluids and see if that helps.
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i wouldn't swap the transmission just for that, you can live without a syncro for 1st, many transmission used to be built without one (and probably still some out there) - just don't shift into first when moving and when stopped give it about 5 seconds to settle down after pressing down the clutch pedal - should be able to shift no problem.
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Ouch! $1400 for a used AX5. Just live with it. For that kind of money you could do a used AX-15 or NV3550.
Also, unless you really want to drain the coolant and disconnect all of the wiring and cables, you don't want to pull the engine... On some cars it's easier that way but this isn't one of them.
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Thinking on it I do seem to always put it into second then shift to 1st at a stop. Most times I try to shift into 1st while moving but do it the old way. Bring up the rpms to match speed for 1st and then it just slips in.
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Here's the written estimate from the shop.
OEM clutch kit - plate and disc $130
OEM Throw out bearing $85
OEM Pilot bearing $24
OEM Clutch arm spring $3.50
OEM hydraulic control unit assembly $200
Used AX-5 transmission with 30 day warranty $400
Labor to replace transmission and all clutch parts $540
6% shop use fee $32.40
Total $1,465.45
I did sharpxman's test and it appears to be the synchro. It shifted better after pushing the clutch in and waiting a few seconds.
In any case, I still need to get the clutch replaced. I'm not sure if I can do it myself. How bad of a job is it? I'm guessing it would take me a month in my garage to do it, working on weekends and going really slow. I'm not sure what tools I'd need to buy or exactly all the parts that I should replace while I'm in there.
My wife would love to convert the YJ to an automatic transmission....
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I think converting to an automatic is a bigger job than you might think but i never done it so this is just guessing, i think the input shaft in the t-case has different spline count, the length of the driveshafts might also be different - i don't know for sure but this is something that I'm remembering from a different discussion here. few other little odds and ends that you'd need as well, different pedal assembly, trans fluid cooler lines and a radiator with a transmission fluid cooler in the bottom tank (unless yours already has one), throttle body to transmission cable and not sure if and how the t/c lockup relay would work (dunno if it's controlled by the PCM, if the PCM is the same and even if your harness has the t/c relay socket on it).
get a clutch kit from amazon or rockauto if you go that route, are you sure is needed (replacing the clutch)?
depending on how much lift you have you can replace the clutch yourself with another set of helping hands around, i have taken the transmission in and out about 4 times now by myself but it is not pretty and made my own low-profile trans jack (but i can't adjust the angle on it), i will probably just buy a transmission floor jack adapter when i will put my 6 speed in as it's a Cirque du Soleil performance with knees and feet and other body parts to line it up at an angle to go in straight - it helps if you put 1 or 2 long studs threaded with M12 on the top holes in the block (did that the second time i took the transmission out and back in), i used 1 long rod that i threaded at the end with an M12 die and that makes a whole lot of difference as you can slide the bellhosing onto those 1 or 2 studs and that way you only have to push the back of the transmission up/down to lineup the input shaft with the clutch and pilot bearing
taking it out it's fairly easy, hardest part would be the 6 skid bolts that would hopefully come out without destroying the nutserts (nut inserts in the frame) - i didn't have a problem with those but mine had relatively low miles when i first did it and i used anti-seize on those bolts since.
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The jeep has 183,000 miles and it has the original clutch. So I'm thinking it's time to replace it as a preventive maintenance action before I run into trouble.
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The jeep has 183,000 miles and it has the original clutch. So I'm thinking it's time to replace it as a preventive maintenance action before I run into trouble.
that would def be a good idea, i had no clue the clutch can last that long anyway :lol:, it might solve your shifting issue or save you from getting stranded somewhere in the future.
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As for the hard shifting, I had the same issue, and the MT-90 cured it. Haave been running it since the first time I tried it about 7 years ago...
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I think converting it to an automatic would suck. You'd lose OD. I'd still try changing the fluids and see if that helps. It might be enough.
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Looking for a place that sells Redline locally today.
Yup, I'm thinking an automatic tranny in the 4 banger would stink too.
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Ordered some Redline MT-90 and will pick it up locally on Monday.
So who has done a clutch lately?
How hard is it to replace if if you have never done one before?
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I usually run a few quarts of generic ATF through the transmission to ensure all the old stuff is flushed out before putting the MT90 in.
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Ordered some Redline MT-90 and will pick it up locally on Monday.
So who has done a clutch lately?
How hard is it to replace if if you have never done one before?
if you have a 3'' or so lift with 33s you can do it on it's wheels. most challenging part is to put the transmission back in.
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I'm stock with saggy leaf springs.
I chatted with my neighbor yesterday and he seemed to think that the clutch replacement wouldn't be too difficult. Compared to a head gasket, he thought it would be a piece of cake. He even offered that I could borrow his transmisison jack....
Picking up the Redline MT-90 tonight on my way home from work.
Will drain and fill the transmission tonight.
Will report shiftability on Tuesday.
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make sure you drain the transmission fluid before pulling the t-case, the transmission seals on the input shaft of the t-case and if not drained you'll end up with it on the ground.
you'll need to jack up the front or maybe the rear high enough to be able to pull the trans without a lift and bigger tires i think, i can't imagine having enough room under it otherwise and even so would be tight.
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I picked up the Red Line MT-90 last night on my way home from work. I drained out the 10w30 that was in the tranny and pumped in the Red Line.
I'm a believer. The transmission is very smooth now. Shifting from neutral to 1st Gear when stopped is still not 100% perfect, but the Red Line has made a huge improvement.
I'll report back in a month to document how it shifts with more use.
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new here and just browsing, I had a Similar problem with a ax5 a few years back in a 94 yj. on a trip to Montalk, I was unable to shift into 1st or 2nd, I only had 3rd-5th. there's something called spring detent, if you look along the sides of your tranny, there are a few bolts you remove, there is a ball bearing/spring/ball bearing. i dont remember how many there were, but I sprayed em down with wd40, changed the tranny oil and it was fixed. somehting with the dentent, it helps the tranny synchronize and shift into gear
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Does anyone have more information about what SamsonJR is talking about?
Is he saying to remove some bolts on the Tranny and lubricate the ball bearings inside?
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Does anyone have more information about what SamsonJR is talking about?
Is he saying to remove some bolts on the Tranny and lubricate the ball bearings inside?
I'm guessing it's one of the bolts that say Do Not Remove. I haven't looked though. I wouldn't use WD40 though. Though I'm sure changing the fluid is that really helped.
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Does anyone have more information about what SamsonJR is talking about?
Is he saying to remove some bolts on the Tranny and lubricate the ball bearings inside?
there's trans oil inside so there shouldn't be a need to lubricate the bearings, if that is the case they'd blow up before you can lubricate again
he's talking about the rail detent balls and springs, those if seized would cause the trans to jump out of gear, nothing to do with shifting into the gear unless it blocks the rail from moving, i haven't seen it happening that way but that doesn't mean it can't - i doubt would be your issue though.
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I've been locked out of 1st many times. (That's actually one of the early faults of the AX series. It happens with the 15 as well.) Usually happens when the trans is cold or can happen when really hot too. The usual fix is to change the fluid to something better.
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there's trans oil inside so there shouldn't be a need to lubricate the bearings, if that is the case they'd blow up before you can lubricate again
he's talking about the rail detent balls and springs, those if seized would cause the trans to jump out of gear, nothing to do with shifting into the gear unless it blocks the rail from moving, i haven't seen it happening that way but that doesn't mean it can't - i doubt would be your issue though.
Yeah that's it the spring, ball and plug. I babied the jeep home and called my dad, that's what he told me to do, After doing it I was able to get the tranny into 1st and 2nd, but had to move the shifter around a lot to get it smooth, right after that I changed the oil. never had a problem with it after that
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It's been a while, but I wanted to update this.
Last week I had the original clutch changed out in my YJ. Clutch had 198,000 miles on it and was original from the Jeep assembly line.
Now that the new clutch kit was installed, the AX-5 happily shifts into first gear. It appears that the clutch was not fully disengaging (or it took several seconds for that to happen).
I'm very happy with how it shifts now, so hopefully it seems that my synchros are fine.