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General Forums => The Mess Hall => Topic started by: Tr00b on February 16, 2013, 10:23:19 PM
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If you had a 4 cylinder TJ...
What would you have to do to it to make it tow and perform like a stock half ton truck (trailer only) on and offroad?
It came up over beers and we had no real good answers.
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v8 swap, auto, upgraded brakes, beefy rear axle + some sort of hd suspension for the rear end. Problem would still be the short wheelbase - can be fixed but it would get so expensive that i think starting with a JK would probably be a better option and cost the same in the end.
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How far would you need to stretch the wheelbase?
I would imagine lockers would be needed to make up for the lack of weight, too.
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A jk8 would be a good start with the deisil, d60, and leafs in the rear.... but with the 4cyl tj you would have alot of work. I would be concerned with the wheelbase for pulling a trailer. Aslo getting a hitch that is beefy enough to pull that much wieght as the tj doesn't start with much of a crossmember at the back. Something like |j lenght with a stroked 4.0l or a v8 d60 rear d44 front could posibly do the job. Would also need to beef up the brakes which would be easier with the new bigger axles. Put it on 33s with a near stock ride height (probably 2 inch lift toavoid rubbing but keep it low).
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How far would you need to stretch the wheelbase?
I would imagine lockers would be needed to make up for the lack of weight, too.
if you want to only pull on the street there's no need for lockers, even on the forestry roads you'll be fine without one, mud/snow lockers would help for sure.
as far as wheelbase the longer the better of course (for side loads on the hitch, won't make it feel like is going sideways as much which is the case once you start lifting the TJ/YJ even without towing anything, just a little wind or getting by big trucks makes you have to steer it back straight) - I'm going to guess like he ^ said that about what LJ has between axles to make it manageable
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Sweet. Thanks for your input guys. By the sound of it we are talking a serious coin, magazine budget build here.
I got real tired of looking at trucks, none of which I liked or could afford and thought maybe a motor swap with an 8.8 and some brakes would cut it. The whole braking system is in need of replacement on my TJ and perhaps this would have been a good time to start that project.
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Want to built a Jeep like that? Other than the engine I did just that :biggrin:
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Want to built a Jeep like that? Other than the engine I did just that :biggrin:
i was thinking of your wheelbase actually when i posted. Is it longer than LJ between axles or about the same?
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I cracked into the "old yeller" thread for the first time, and found this pic... Holy crap, that thread is huge I read for an hour and a half and hadn't read a quarter of it! It looks wider than an LJ... AW, Super awesome by the way! What did that cost or is it all custom fab?
(http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p289/aartw12345/koh/DSCN8864-1.jpg)
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longer wheelbase and a diesel would take care of the needs you mentioned. Cut the TJ tub and stretch to LJ length. Swap out 2.5l for 2.8lCRD out of liberty or source one from foreign JK, cumins 4bt could also fit the billet, though it is an unrefined engine and has poor road manners, a toyota or worked Mercedes Benz diesel would do well and as HPA Motorsports has shown, the 1.9 TDi with nearly 3o0ft lbs torque could also do the trick.
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I like the CRD but the transmission behind it does not make it a viable option. At very least the transmission behind it in the Liberty. Torque converter doesn't hold up and with an aftermarket one they tend to burn out gears reguardless of maintenance. I did not buy one of these for that reason already.
The diesel idea is a good one, but the cost is usually around 5 to 10 grand...
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I bought the totaled Jeep for 500 bucks, sold anything that I didn't need, that made it free. Then spend 11 months and 13.500 bucks to make it what it is. since then I have changed a few little things and spend money on tires. The Jeep takes all the Hammers abuse in stride without complaint. Works very well for a 4 banger and is very reliable.
Climbs stuff like this like they are speedbumps at the mall :biggrin:
(http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p289/aartw12345/Moab%20UT/DSC03237-1.jpg)
(http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p289/aartw12345/Moab%20UT/moab047.jpg)
(http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p289/aartw12345/Moab%20UT/moab039-1.jpg)
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What are you going to tow? A camping trailer or something larger? I think a buggy would suck to tow anything more then 50 miles onroad. Definitely get a trailer with brakes. I'd sell the 2.5L and buy a Rubicon Unlimited. Bigger engine and axles are just about 1/2T. Get a hard top and you could tow stuff cross country if you wanted.
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Ive been looking at trucks and not finding what I want. Plus a little scared... I get screwed if I breathe wrong ... Jeep has never let me down. It will be for farm use wood hauling etc what I already do but bigger better and safer. The ability to pull a car trailer and load would be nice or a dump trailer for wood hauling. I was seeing if there was a solution to make the jeep work.
I have a 1974 F250 highboy 4x4 but the cab fell apart and it will take 2000 to 4000 and months of work to get that on the road. That looking like a better option.
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Ive been looking at trucks and not finding what I want. Plus a little scared... I get screwed if I breathe wrong ... Jeep has never let me down. It will be for farm use wood hauling etc what I already do but bigger better and safer. The ability to pull a car trailer and load would be nice or a dump trailer for wood hauling. I was seeing if there was a solution to make the jeep work.
I have a 1974 F250 highboy 4x4 but the cab fell apart and it will take 2000 to 4000 and months of work to get that on the road. That looking like a better option.
You can buy a '00-'08 F250 or F350 Fleet Truck for pretty cheap. If not not working it hard then it would be a good buy. Just do your homework on engines.
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Thanks Jeffy,
I'll look into them, but for the meanwhile, I'm waiting for the gas prices to kill the truck market so I can pick one up cheaper.
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Thanks Jeffy,
I'll look into them, but for the meanwhile, I'm waiting for the gas prices to kill the truck market so I can pick one up cheaper.
Fleet trucks tend to be a lot cheaper then the regular trucks but also better maintained. Interiors are more truck like and less SUV. (A feature I actually prefer.) Fleed truck would also more likely be diesel so any fluctuation in gas prices would be a bit moot.
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The diesel idea is a good one, but the cost is usually around 5 to 10 grand...
What you're asking to do will cost a considerable amount of money anyway. To tow, you're gonna need a longer wheelbase. Whether you stretch it as Art has on his rig, or stretch it like an LJ is up to you. I would chop it and make it an LJ so as to gain a bit of "trunk" space. Then swap in a diesel-longevity, power and mpg would be the reasons to use a diesel over a gas v8.
Check out this build thread from Jeepforum that details a TJ to LJ conversion. Took some time, but it didn't seem like he spent too much on it. Either way, it's a well detailed thread.
http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f22/tj-6-a-913143/ (http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f22/tj-6-a-913143/)
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it also depends the weight and speed you're towing at, for around the farm going slow or not much weight on the street you'll be fine with what you have most likely, another vehicle or a camper is a whole different story.
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I am with sharp. For towing around the farm a trailer with good brakes and a good hitch on the Jeep will get most of what you want done, maybe a 2 lo in the transfercase would help too. Would give you more gears to get going.
The GPW's had no power to speak off, but just after WW2 made a pretty good substitute for a all around farm tractor. If your towing is around town and back roads, your Jeep would do just fine with a good hitch and good electric brakes on the trailer
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First off, Art that Jeep is so very boss. Thanks for posting the pics. Is there a build thread for that Jeep?
Jeffy, I like the stripped down fleet truck thing too, especially with the manual transmission. Actually Nissan Titans have been catching my eye, although I probably deserve 50 lashes for even mentioning that.
Stan, I read a bunch of it. I like your suggestion, but at that rate I'd just buy an LJ if the Jeep was the ticket. I don't have the fab skills or a shop to do something like that, and my jeep is NOTHING special. Its a rusty 1997 that needs a bunch of work. Also, around these parts, all that fab work would rust to pieces in two years unless you spent equal time POR15'ing stuff. Rattle cans last 6 months maybe 8 months before you have to regrind and respray.
Sharp and AW, I already do low speed farm stuff with a great deal of success and technically nothing needs to change. I tow up to 2000lbs down the road at 55-60mph (my trailer does not have brakes), have towed some super heavy stuff in 4 low, 6-8000lbs at crawl speed, corn wagons mostly. I take some measure of pride in outworking almost all of the diesel trucks the rednecks use on their beer runs. AW, I have always wanted an old willys. My parents sold theirs when I was a kid. They used to cut pasture, spread manure and run a pump to spray cattle with it.
I'm wanting something more , I guess there isn't a better way to describe it, and was hoping that I might be able to make my Teal bomber the solution somehow.
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So I went and looked at a Titan on Craigslist, the guy is out of work and is super eager to trade for my Jeep to get things under control financially. I am reluctant but I just think I'll be happier with something with power. http://dubuque.craigslist.org/cto/3594577795.html
It does scare me to let the old girl go because she has been pretty reliable and we had some good memories... And gotten me through some tough times.
I am wondering what my Jeep is worth. I am thinking $4000 but trade him 10k and my jeep for the truck.
Top: Original black half door skins, used tan top with a small cut on the back flap.
Body: Front fender rusted through, a body mount near the middle of the Jeep is (the tub rail) underneath is rusted through and hanging in midair. Some minor grille damage. Rest of it is solid.
Exhaust needs to be patched, leaking by the cat. Brakes are all original and pull to one side. Rear pinion seal leak. Power steering pressure sensor is bad.
New O2's, newer fuel pump, new cat, new exhaust mani gasket, new exhaust mani, all replaced ignition, new ball joints, new rims, new 31" tires, new shocks, new steering damper, new U-joints in the front axle, AMSoil in the trans.
A couple pics
http://4bangerjp.com/forums/index.php/topic,10864.0.html
Let me know what you think... I can take criticism.
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what's the factory warranty on that (he says it's an '07, 97k miles and still under warranty) - when is it running out?
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It runs out in about 950 miles, truck has a 100k warranty. Truck had 99k and change when I drove it...
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the truck looks good, i'd start lower so you have room to negotiate.
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Blah he wants too much for the truck and offered only 2k for the Jeep....
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I'd stay away from foreign trucks, not because of quality issues but because they demand a premium. This is why I recommended a Fleet Truck. My BIL buys them used for his business then runs them into the ground and buy another.
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I guess its all based on location... The fleet spec even chassis cab trucks are going for as much or more than the regular spec trucks around here.
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Giving up on trucks and making the jeep a truck. Too poor, too dumb and no good place to work on it.
The motor knock is getting real real bad on my DD car, so I will probably replace that ($1000 ish) which sucks because I already spent too much on the POS and now I'm trapped.
I have a rock auto discount code expiring the 3rd. I'll get for the jeep a pinion seal, power steering sensor and I need to do work to the brakes. I wonder if just brake hoses might fix the weird pulling to one side...
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could be a stuck caliper, or worn pads
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could be a stuck caliper, or worn pads
I think that would be more likely then a hose.
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I think that would be more likely then a hose.
yeah, if it was a line/hose you'd eventually be without brakes at some point.
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Basically it will pull to one side (into oncoming traffic) On two occasions, the wheel locked up and overheated after a life or death hammer on the brakes... Right now, its not too bad and it isnt pulling.
Brake hoses are weird, they act like one way valves when they fail. Fluid go in, doesn't come out keeps the piston applied until it cools. But that is usually a permanent problem not an intermittent one. Probably a rusty caliper piston dad says.
Haha... $12 on a $500 order? Thats a pimp discount, Rock Auto not even worth it... I'd like to spend about $600 and redo the brake hoses, the calipers and the lines, the rotors, the hub bearings and all 4 of the driveshaft u-joints, but for now? I do nothing. Money is too tight to reach for plastic for a $12 discount.
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Bump steer?
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i got super cheap refurbed raybestos calipers off amazon, can't remember how much but it was quite a deal, got the rotors too along with those, night and day - i had the same issue, pulling on 1 side at times, the lines were good.
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I was checking out those loaded Raybestos loaded calipers myself. Would be a good start.
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Still looking for Arts build thread on his stretched TJ. Is there one?
Yet another financial setback. Instead of Jeep parts I have furnace parts so the pipes don't freeze... :(
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Still looking for Arts build thread on his stretched TJ. Is there one?
In "Member's projects" it's called "start of the big yeller" or something like that.
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But... Most of what I saw was a kind of a tube buggy build didn't seem to be the same rig. :puzzled:
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But... Most of what I saw was a kind of a tube buggy build didn't seem to be the same rig. :puzzled:
that's at the end, the TJ is in the first 1/2 or 2/3 of that thread, however i just looked and seems that his pics from the TJ build are not loading
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Well screw it then lol...
Drove the Jeep all week because the exhaust fell off of my car last week... By Friday I had firm feelings about fixing the car. Its fun for a couple days then you get worn out from the noise, rough ride, and get sick of putting gas in it. 2 hours is not a cool commute to begin with...
A stretched WB would ride much better and while driving and getting beat up I was dreaming about it a little. The free Rubicon Red shocks I put on do Not help. My dad says it rides worse than a J30.
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Took a few more blows to my ego and my wallet and its gotten to the point where I have more time than money (although less time than I had before I had even less money...) and... the whiskey is gone.
So I be fixin on this 1974 shytpyle Flord thats been sitting in my yard for 4 years that I can't sell for anything other than scrap price. D60 Rear, D44 kingpin front, SM465, divorced NP205, and a really good running 360FE. So much crawl that 4 low and the starter alone climbed it out of its 6" deep holes it was resting in. (It sunk in the ground)
(http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c196/GhettoGothCowboy/winterandspring2012257.jpg)
(http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c196/GhettoGothCowboy/winterandspring2012256.jpg)
(http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c196/GhettoGothCowboy/IMG_20130409_190321_659_zps6c4328e0.jpg)
(http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c196/GhettoGothCowboy/IMG_20130409_190417_828_zpsafb9a4c7.jpg)
(http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c196/GhettoGothCowboy/01-28-10_1115.jpg)
Cab is junk rusted out and it messes with the clutch linkage real bad and feels like you are going to fall off of the truck... So Bumpside 1972 cab swap...
(http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c196/GhettoGothCowboy/winterandspring2012258.jpg)
(http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c196/GhettoGothCowboy/IMG_20130412_174343_394_zps07bea036.jpg)
(http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c196/GhettoGothCowboy/IMG_20130412_174533_342_zps2c01037e.jpg)
(http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c196/GhettoGothCowboy/Truck4-13041_zpsb48f0a5d.jpg)
(http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c196/GhettoGothCowboy/Truck4-13032_zps9d63cb00.jpg)