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General Forums => The Mess Hall => Topic started by: az_zoner on April 08, 2013, 10:03:43 PM
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We were out on some trails near Parker AZ this past weekend and I realized I need to do something about traction on my 91 YJ. I loved to install a locker but I flat tow behind my MH. We are not hard core but like to hit challenging trails evey once in a while. Is there something we can do to improve the traction control with out going to a locker? Or does anyone know of a locker that I can install and still be able to flat tow my YJ?
Craig
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i've heard of spool up front and using the vacuum quick disco (converted to a cable) to use it as 3wd/4wd - so basically with the passanger axle disconnected and t-case in 2wd would be open but spinning the front driveshaft (and so are the TJs which don't have the quick disconnect) , when you wheel it with t-case in 4wd you'd have traction to rear axle and locked driver's side front wheel and with the quick disconnect engaged you have locked front both wheels and open rear.
that's what i can think of as a cheap solution.
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The selectable ARB air locker is what you need. What's wrong with towing with an automatic locker?
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Sharpxmen, That looks like a option I can look into further.
thanks for the input
Craig
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The selectable ARB air locker is what you need. What's wrong with towing with an automatic locker?
you're right, selectable is the best option (arb, ox, eaton) - i think he meant something on the low budget side (that was my understanding) but i could be wrong.
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neale_rs,
I'm not real knowledgeable on lockers so I'm going on what I've been told and have read on other forums. I’m sure I can find out for sure by making a few phone calls and getting the facts from the manufactures. They are pricey but I’m sure every time you clear an area instead of needing a winch to get over it, it starts to pay off.
Thanks,
cb
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i misunderstood then, in that case like neale said go for selectable lockers, they are open in normal operation (just like your stock diff) and you lock them with a flick of a switch for arb (air) or eaton (electric) or with a cable for ox lockers (these lockers arb, ox, eaton are not limited slip but fully locked like a spool which is what you want offroad)
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Learn to use your brakes to modulate the wheel spin. Really good drivers can run an open-diff like a LSD.
For the cost of installing a full spool, you'd be better off installing a lunchbox locker yourself. A spool is cheap but you're going to have to set the gears up again. A lunchbox in the back can be installed and removed easily enough.
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Learn to use your brakes to modulate the wheel spin. Really good drivers can run an open-diff like a LSD.
For the cost of installing a full spool, you'd be better off installing a lunchbox locker yourself. A spool is cheap but you're going to have to set the gears up again. A lunchbox in the back can be installed and removed easily enough.
What brought this all on was a run we made last week. I was so busy with clutch, foot feed, and no power steering that I don't think I could have worked the brake in at any time. Let alone the jeep was bouncing all over the place. But with that said, I know the trail a bit now and will for sure be set up better than I was. I learned a lot in just five miles of nothing but rocks. Big rocks!
So back to the lunchbox locker, will that have any effect on towing my jeep? And where did the term lunchbox come from? Are there any threads with write ups on how to install around?
I'm looking at all options but a budget route would probably fit better. If I can do the work, it's more I can spend on the parts.
thanks
Craig
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Honestly, I'd get some more time behind the wheel and see if you need to do anything else. Tires are a big contribution. Looks like you have a YJ. Are you still running track bars? How about the sway-bar? Still on stock shackles? That's where I'd start. Maybe get a hand throttle as well since they're cheap.
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Honestly, I'd get some more time behind the wheel and see if you need to do anything else. Tires are a big contribution. Looks like you have a YJ. Are you still running track bars? How about the sway-bar? Still on stock shackles? That's where I'd start. Maybe get a hand throttle as well since they're cheap.
I actually do have time 4 wheeling and reading lines but it was many many years ago. We've had the yj less than a year. It is lifted via suspension, no shackles or body lift. And I have 32 x11.5 BFG AT tires. Track bars are gone but I still have the sway bar. Do disconnect and no sway bar help much?
Funny you bring up the throttle. That is one thing that I could not control with the rocking and bouncing of the jeep. My foot would get to bouncing too. I've been told to try and add an additional spring. How does the hand throttle work?
Anyway, I'll keep asking questions and searching for solutions.
Thanks for the suggestions and input.
Craig
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Hand throttle look at this.
http://www.extremeterrain.com/teraflex-hand-throttle-tj-yj-4870400.html?utm_content=genonly&utm_campaign=50966386926-avshop&utm_source=google-pla&utm_medium=shopping&utm_term=&adpos=1o2&network=g&XTID=J12602&adtype=pla (http://www.extremeterrain.com/teraflex-hand-throttle-tj-yj-4870400.html?utm_content=genonly&utm_campaign=50966386926-avshop&utm_source=google-pla&utm_medium=shopping&utm_term=&adpos=1o2&network=g&XTID=J12602&adtype=pla)
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Track bars are gone but I still have the sway bar. Do disconnect and no sway bar help much?
Disconnecting the sway bar helps a lot on a YJ.
I'm no longer running mine (SUA lift) with no problems on road but many run it on road due to personal preference.
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I'd check the torque on the shackle and hanger bolts. If you have nylock nuts on them, they don't need to be super tight. IIRC, the FSM says they should be 70-90lbs which is too tight. Disconnecting the sway bar does a lot. Otherwise the drop on the front tires is very minimal. Just make sure your brake lines have enough slack. You might want to relocate them under the frame if you don't already run longer lines. Getting the suspension to flex will keep the tires in contact with the surface and give you more traction.
I use a Rubicon Express handle thorttle but they're all basically the same. You can make one from scratch if you know you're way around a bike and know where to get them. Basically the hand throttle goes on the shifter.
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-b6e5MWoMVWw/Scr57kuwAOI/AAAAAAAAeY4/idVfQo6sjj8/s896/DSC_0005-5-2.jpg)
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Do you run both a foot feed and the hand throttle at the same ? Like foot feed when driving to the trails and then hand throttle when on trails. Or do you disconnect one ?
Cb
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you can also go a few clicks on the e-brake and will give you a bit of better distribution of power to the rear wheels if one spins freely - the trick is to engage it enough so it creates some friction on the one that's suspended or in the mud but not too much to make you slip the clutch excessively. trial and error until you get it right i guess, will help but won't replace a locker, use it only when needed to pass a certain obstacle of course.
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Yes, they are connected at the same time. When you step on the throttle you can see the cable on the hand throttle stick up.
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You can use the hand throttle in different ways; you can use it to increase the idle speed (just a few clicks and leave it there; that way, when you lift your foot of the gas, the TB plate will remain a bit open, so the Jeep will be harder to stall). You can use it to increase engine RPM for using accessories (like when you are winching but are not inside the Jeep, or when running OBA, or just simply want to recharge the battery, but you dont want to sit there holding the gas pedal). You can use it as a redneck cruise control (it will not maintain SPEED, but it WILL leave the throttle at a specific place, so if it is flat, you can maintain speed) to give your foot a rest on long trips (oh, and yes, it is not exactly the safest way to drive, but I have used it anyway when my cruise control was acting up and I was making 600 mile trips between Panama and Costa Rica). You can also use it as a third foot, for those times when you need to have a foot on your brakes, have the clutch in, and still need to get gas to the engine to get going (like when taking off on a steep hill). It's a very cheap add on that is really practical, in my opinion. You can use a bike shifter control and make your own, or get one like the Rubicon Express one (I also run this one).
As for lockers, I think BountyHunter runs the spool with the cable disconnect; you can ask him for advice on this. But for me, there is nothing like a selectable locker. I run ARB, which are the most expensive, but they are literally invisible on the road, and make a HUGE difference offroad. The downside is that besides the lockers, you need an air compressor. Ox are simpler (in that they are cable operated instead of using air) and are about as bullet proof as the ARB. Detroit Lockers are also bullet proof, but you WILL have to learn to drive with those on... They tend to be felt when you increase or decrease the torque (press or depress the gas pedal), especially when cornering.
As for lunchbox lockers, some of them (most) use clutches, which eventually wear off. Also, they are not "true" lockers; most of them are LSD, but that does not mean that they will not give you additional traction. It's just that a true locker will give you more of it... But they will also be more expensive. It really depends on what you are looking for, and how much budget you have...
Now, removing the sway bars and track bars; they make a HUGE difference, especially if you run lifted springs. I also have a YJ (94), and I run no track bar in the rear, a telescopic one on the front (which means I can free it up for wheeling, and then lock it up when I hit the road), and sway bar discos, and they make a HUGE difference in traction when wheeling. I recommend you get some sway bar disconnects; they are also fairly cheap, and make a big difference (and you mentioned you already tossed you track bars).
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We're getting a little off my original topic, but this is all good info for me. So I'd like to get the disconnects installed this coming weekend. Questions is, what do you do with your sway bar when it is disconnected? Wire it up some how?
I've also seen several different ones. One pin in the center, JKS. Two pins and a section comes out of the center, Rough Country, and then one where the whole disconnect comes off, JKS. I imagine the manufacture of the one you pick comes down to which comes off easiest. Any preferences? And Why?
Again, Thanks for all the input on everything.
cb
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Questions is, what do you do with your sway bar when it is disconnected? Wire it up some how?
I ussually just tie it up to the frame when wheeling.
I've also seen several different ones. One pin in the center, JKS. Two pins and a section comes out of the center, Rough Country, and then one where the whole disconnect comes off, JKS. I imagine the manufacture of the one you pick comes down to which comes off easiest. Any preferences? And Why?
Any of them will do the job. I have rubicon express 2 pin ones, and they work just fine, but are a bit of a hazzle to get back in place. I have heard good things about the JKS 1 pin ones, but have never seen them myself.
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Lunchbox lockers are real lockers, they don't use clutches and they lock 100% when on the throttle. You can flat-tow with lunchbox lockers in both axles and you won't notice them as they'll be unlocked with no throttle input to them.
I flat-tow with spools in both axles without issue.
If its a limited slip you want, look at the Detroit Trutrac, no clutches to wear out. Much better than an open diff.
I wouldn't concern yourself with using the ebrake or a hand throttle while wheeling. Just back your foot off the gas pedal until only your toes are touching, that will get rid of most of the bounce you're experiencing.
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There has been a lot of good information given here and I'm taking it all in. I do have to budget/plan my purchases so I'm starting by installing the disconnects on the sway bar. Along with installing longer brake lines from NAPA. I found some threads which recommended an additional 4" length. Also picking up an air compressor so I can drop the air pressure in the tires. Hope to get this completed this coming weekend and then back out to Parker, AZ. and the trails to check out how the upgrades work. Also this is the last weekend that the Desert Bar is open!
thanks for all the suggestions.
cb
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There has been a lot of good information given here and I'm taking it all in. I do have to budget/plan my purchases so I'm starting by installing the disconnects on the sway bar. Along with installing longer brake lines from NAPA. I found some threads which recommended an additional 4" length. Also picking up an air compressor so I can drop the air pressure in the tires. Hope to get this completed this coming weekend and then back out to Parker, AZ. and the trails to check out how the upgrades work. Also this is the last weekend that the Desert Bar is open!
thanks for all the suggestions.
cb
If your stock lines are OK, you can relocate them under the frame and gain 6" or so.
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If your stock lines are OK, you can relocate them under the frame and gain 6" or so.
They need to be replaced. When I put on my lift I started to relocate them and realized I needed to replace them.
Thanks,
cb
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I'm going to end the up-dates on this thread because it is no longer related to the limited slip diff topic. I do have some updates on how the sway bar disconnect worked out along with reduced tire pressure. I'll start a new thread.
Craig