4bangerjp.com
General Forums => The Mess Hall => Topic started by: jfrabat on May 19, 2013, 12:37:29 PM
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OK, so here's the deal: I decided to change a bunch of stuff on my Jeep to try to get it to run decently once again, as it was shutting off when coming to a stop and doing other odd things like not wanting to start after it shut the engine off (either by decision or error). Nd since I had abused it a bit, I also wanted to do some general maintenance and fixes.
So, I changed the following:
Spark plug wires
Distributor cap
rotor
coil
new plug on the coil
Charcoal canister
fuel filter
fuel hoses before and after the fuel filter
Fuel injectors
TPS
IAC motor
In any case, I replaced everything but and the Jeep was running very smoothly. Fuel pressure was stable (36 with vacuum, 42 or 43 without, IIRC). Engine RPM was fine, the engine did not bog down with the AC compressor as it was doing, and the engine would fire right up after shutting it down. As a result, I figured either the leak on the hoe before the fuel filter, the charcoal canister (which sounded s if it was full of sand), or the ignition (the cap posts showed a lot of corrosion was the culprit).
Then I replaced the windshield washer water reservoir, and again turned the engine on, and the engine started acting up (kind of sounded like a vroom, vroom, vroom). I decided to check the fuel pressure again (it also started acting up when I tried to fire the Jeep after shutting down), and I noticed the fuel pressure was all over the place (the needle going from 30 PSI to 45 or so VERY quickly). I took a video that I will post later on...
Now, I should point out that I still need to drop the tank to change the sending unit (pump included), so the fuel is VERY low (below the E on the gauge); could the low fuel be the cause? Anyway, any help is greatly appreciated!
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it can do that if the fuel is low, but i don't know how low actually was. the other thing that can do it is if the power to the pump goes on and off. I suggest adding some fuel (enough so it's not a question if it catches air) and see if its still the case.
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I will have to try aftwrbI drop the tank... No use in putting fuel in now if I have to drop the tank. But any other ideas just in case its not that?
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if you have a kinked hose on the return but the upper pressure would be much higher i think you'd get like 60, 40, 60, 40) - go up till the kink straightens, release, and so on.
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Here' the video...
https://www.youtube.com/v/f9ctljIzeLY
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Private Video
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Sounds like it is out of gas. In JP Magazine they told how you can disconnect one of the fuel lines and use the Jeep's own fuel pump to pump out the gas.
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i get the same "This video is Private"
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i get the same "This video is Private"
Sorry, should be fixed now...
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hmm, i don't think that's lack of gas or kinked return since it won't do it without the vac line. do you have a break bleeder kit with a vacuum pump? if yes hook that up to the FPR and slowly increase vac but no lower than 20inHg (16 to 18 i think it's idle) and see if it still does it, if it doesn't then it's most likely the vac line (maybe it's collapsing, i don't know) or maybe it's the FPR, might not hold vacuum - can't remember if yours had the o-ring or just teflon tape around the thread under the locking nut - might want to test if it holds vac and if not try to put some teflon tape there.
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hmm, i don't think that's lack of gas or kinked return since it won't do it without the vac line. do you have a break bleeder kit with a vacuum pump? if yes hook that up to the FPR and slowly increase vac but no lower than 20inHg (16 to 18 i think it's idle) and see if it still does it, if it doesn't then it's most likely the vac line (maybe it's collapsing, i don't know) or maybe it's the FPR, might not hold vacuum - can't remember if yours had the o-ring or just teflon tape around the thread under the locking nut - might want to test if it holds vac and if not try to put some teflon tape there.
I have another FPR (stocker); I could simply replace it... Not that much work anyway... And at least I could test it.
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it acts like the vacuum varies, try the stock one. i bet it's the line and/or elbow to the fitting, after you put it back was between 35 and 40, before that was 30 to 42 or so, are the lines hard plastic or soft?
EDIT: but before you do any more work add 3 or 4 liters of fuel, won't prevent you from taking the tank off but at least would give you an idea if the tank almost empty could add to this (with the vac disconnected was varying about 2 psi which is not normal).
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it acts like the vacuum varies, try the stock one. i bet it's the line and/or elbow to the fitting, after you put it back was between 35 and 40, before that was 30 to 42 or so, are the lines hard plastic or soft?
They are silicone. I can measure vacuum at the elbow; that can tell us if that is the issue.
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how's the fit of the elbow on the fitting, did you try pressing and holding it against the fitting by hand? Add some fuel too, 5 liter tops will be enough.
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how's the fit of the elbow on the fitting, did you try pressing and holding it against the fitting by hand? Add some fuel too, 5 liter tops will be enough.
I could feel the vacuum with my finger, so it looked fine at first glance, but I did not pay too much attention to it... I'll try the fuel trick, and see if this clears it out anyway.
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also try to seal the adjusting screw/nut with teflon tape as well, it's probably no longer sealed if you adjusted it.
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also try to seal the adjusting screw/nut with teflon tape as well, it's probably no longer sealed if you adjusted it.
Actually, I have not adjusted the fuel pressure; it's the same as when you shipped it to me (unless it's gotten loose, but then the fuel pressure would be off).
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ok, then leave it. I would still check if it holds vacuum, pull the line from the intake and suck some air and seal with your tongue or inside of the lip, should hold for at least a few seconds worst case, if it drops right away then check and see if it's at the fitting or the FPR.
when did it start doing it by the way? still thinking you should add some fuel just in the odd case scenario when that's the problem (although by watching the vid i'm not sure but who knows).
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ok, then leave it. I would still check if it holds vacuum, pull the line from the intake and suck some air and seal with your tongue or inside of the lip, should hold for at least a few seconds worst case, if it drops right away then check and see if it's at the fitting or the FPR.
when did it start doing it by the way? still thinking you should add some fuel just in the odd case scenario when that's the problem (although by watching the vid i'm not sure but who knows).
Oh, I will do the fuel thing... No harm done if it's not that. Besides, there was some oil residue on the original fitting (I replaced it last weekend; I could probably clean the old one and see how it is). To be honest, I am not sure when it started doing this, as there are many things that were wrong, and I don't know which issued caused which symptoms. I will check the vacuum on the FPR as well, and try a new FPR to see if it does the same (easy enough to change, and I do have one in the garage), although I don't think that's the cause.
My guess is that it could also be the fuel pump acting up, but that does not worry me, as I am replacing that anyway along with the rest of the fuel sending unit (I am tire of seeing my Jeep at full for 90 miles or so before the needle starts to drop!). So we'll see how it goes.
So far, the plan is to get under the Jeep on Saturday, drop the tank, replace the fuel sending unit, replace the rollover valves, and replace all the gaskets and fittings. Mount the tank again (and fill it up with 4 to 5 gallons), and do the fuel thing at the FPR vacuum connection to clean that up. Then I will test the vacuum pressure at the FPR. If that's acting up, I can replace the entire line (I have more silicone hoses in my garage along with all the fittings and conenctors). If it is NOT acting up, but the fuel pressure is still acting weird, I will replace the FPR with the other one I have. If I have the chance, I will also change the MAP sensor, the air temp sensor at the intake, the coolant temp sensor, and the oil pressure sensor. If I STILL have time, I will replace the fan controller with the flex-a-lite one (the DCC is acting up and not starting like it should for some reason; I grew tired of having problems with those, so I ordered the flex-a-lite one), and then, if the Jeep is actually up and running, I am going to the beach in it! Hopefully, it will not leave me stranded!
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Wow, you will soon have an all new fuel system!
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Wow, you will soon have an all new fuel system!
Yup
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From the research I have been doing online, it seems that this issue is caused by one of 2 things; the fuel pump going bad (which is going to be changed anyway) or a vaccuum issue. Either way, I will track down the issue and fix it this Saturday. Wish me luck!
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While your in there... The evap canister lines (Vacume) are all right next to the wind shield washer jug..
Dave
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While your in there... The evap canister lines (Vacume) are all right next to the wind shield washer jug..
Dave
Not in my case; my washer jug is on the passenger side next to the radiator (had to relocated for the snorkel), but those lines were all replaced with silicone ones. I'll check that none of them have leaks, though...
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Well,I dropped the tank, changed the sending unit, andnow the pump is not turning on... also, the fuel gauge shows a full tank, when I only got about 6 gallons in there. My first thought was that I forgot to connect the plug, but I distinctly remember connecting it (and that it was a real PITA to connect!). Any suggestions?
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you'll have to drop it unfortunately
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Do you have a body lift on yours cause on mine I can get to those plugs by Pulling my Drivers side rear tire and reaching between the frame and body. If you are skinny you do not even need to pull the tire. ;)
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Well, sharp was right; had to drop it again, and found that the connector was faulty from the factory (the new one). Tied to get it as it's supposed to be, but no joy. I ended up using the old plug and splicing it to the new sending unit with some water proof solder splices that I bought some time ago (between the solder, the tied cables, and the tight grip and glue of the water proof splicers, I am betting they will end up being stronger than the plug itself!). This did not fix the pulsating fuel pressure, so I checked vacuum and vacuum was fairly stable, so I tried the stock FPR; there is still SOME oscillation, but not nearly as much (3 PSI more or less, versus 10 or so before). The odd thing is that when the engine is cold, the adjustable FPR works fine, but after a while, it starts acting up. My guess would be that there is some resonating frequency which is causing the FPR to go into a harmonic oscillation, or something... I'll post the videos later on after they upload...
The good news is that the Jeep is up and running; took it for a test drive, and no ill manners were detected. Starts right up after shutting it down also, and no fuel smell found. I am still loosing fuel pressure when I shut down, though, so there is a leak SOMEWHERE... Plus, I still have to install the eFan controller box...
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you can try a few things with that FPR
1 - check if it holds vacuum
2 - losen the nut and unscrew the fitting about 1/4 turn, tighten the nut and see if it's still doing it
3 - unscrew 3 turns and then go back 2, work your way back to your idle psi with the vac on and when about right tighten the nut
4 - if none of the above and if you have an old FPR you can try cutting it and replace the spring in the adjustable one, i can't guarantee that this will do anything but just in case you want to try it.
i'm thinking it's the spring, but not sure.
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Here are the videos.
1. Adjustable FPR (sharp's) when engine is cold (notice very small oscillation) at idle:
http://www.youtube.com/v/oDv39j2YiMg
2. Adjustable FPR when engine at running temperature at idle. Notice that it starts out without vacuum, and that vacuum hose is connected to vacuum pressure tester.
http://www.youtube.com/v/UpStBzUCShg
3. Adjustable FPR when engine is cold (notice very small oscillation, and less pressure than at idel) at 3K RPM
http://www.youtube.com/v/1qBzOQB54bQ
4. Stock FPR at idle with engine at running temp (still a little oscillation, but much less) at idle
http://www.youtube.com/v/cc9WWOXvoNo
5. Stock FPR at idle with engine at running temp at 3K RPM (notice the fuel pressure remains constant)
http://www.youtube.com/v/nKOy5AxCKXw
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the FPR is probably gone, but you can try the spring if you have an old one you don't care for that much. Can be the seat though in which case you can't do anything (which means it developed a ridge and it catches on, once releasing i lets out out more fuel and it repeats the cycle over and over). I might have a threaded one around (i need to look) but i remember it was not keeping pressure too well, i can probably find a spring somewhere also - can throw them in an envelope and mail them over if i can find them. Unfortunately i have no bodies left and the setup to make them is long gone so can't help you with that. could be a problem with the lengths too as i made them as pairs so not sure if it will work. I'll have a look in the garage tomorrow and let you know.
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A friend of mine has a Hesco one he is not using, so I my just get that from him and throw it in there... In the mean time, I am sticking with the stocker, as it seems to better hold the pressure (even if it's lower).
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ok, keep us posted
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Took the Jeep to go fishing at the lake (better known as the Panama Canal), which is about 20~25 miles away from my home. I did notice that, when cold (did it on 3 separate occasions, always close to where I had turned the Jeep on recently), the Jeep would seem to loose power (it felt like I was lifting my foot of the accelerator). If I pressed the accelerator (all the way), the Jeep would "pop" (Backfire? Pinging?). The Jeep did throw codes, and they are as follow (read with my OBDI scanner):
52: Sustained rich air/fuel ratio condition detected in O2 sensor bank 1 position 1
21: Oxygen sensor bank 1 position 1 shorted to high voltage
24: Throttle position sensor input above maximum (this one is a fairly common one on my jeep when you go pedal to the metal)
Considering both the O2 sensor and the TPS are new, what do you think this is caused by? Obviously, since it SHOULD be in open loop, it could be caused by the 19# injectors... Once the Jeep warms up, it's running fine. But I can smell the exhaust a bit rich (keep in mind I don't have a cat; got tired of clogging them, and I am guessing this could be the cause!). So, any takers on how to improve this?
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did you reset the 'puter after replacing all that stuff? O2 might not get good contact in the connector as well.
on the tps check if your t/b butterfly goes beyond vertical, if it does you'll need to make sure it stops and not going beyond (which would be detrimental to the airflow), if that's not it then maybe it's a sensor ground going bad (which might explain the O2 issue also).
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did you reset the 'puter after replacing all that stuff? O2 might not get good contact in the connector as well.
on the tps check if your t/b butterfly goes beyond vertical, if it does you'll need to make sure it stops and not going beyond (which would be detrimental to the airflow), if that's not it then maybe it's a sensor ground going bad (which might explain the O2 issue also).
I'll check the butterfly next weekend, though, as I don't have time tonight. I did reset the ECU (with the scanner I have; not the manual way). A bad ground would explain A LOT of things... How do I check that?
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I'll check the butterfly next weekend, though, as I don't have time tonight. I did reset the ECU (with the scanner I have; not the manual way). A bad ground would explain A LOT of things... How do I check that?
i think all the sensors (maybe except for the O2) have the ground black with a blue stripe. Measure with an ohmmeter from each sensor to the PCM sensor ground pin(s), I can look in the FSM for which ones are the PCM ground pins if you don't have a copy.
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To reset the ECU, just disconnect the neg battery cable and turn the key
on for 5 to 10 minutes.. YJ ECU maintain memory from the battery.
When you restart make sure every single switchable electrical device is off.
Allow to idle for 5 minutes or so.. THen drive for 5 miles (I do a freeway run...)
It takes about 30 run start cycles for the ECU on mine to really get its act together.
I think Jeep claims 10... cant remember...
Dave
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I reset it again with the reader, and it was still doing it. But I noticed every time it was less, so I started doing what someone in this forum mentioned once, where you shut the Jeep off at stop lights, and it seems the ECU learned, because, at least for the last 2 days, it has been purring like a kitten, making me one HAPPY camper!!! :doggy:
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It seems I counted my blessings way too soon... The Jeep is at it AGAIN! Same issue. You are driving, and all of the sudden, it looses power (as if you unplugged the coil). If you load it (give it gas while in gear), it will stall even more and then it will backfire (as if fuel is reaching the exhaust or something). If you accelerate with the clutch in, sometimes it comes back to life, sometimes it doesn't.
The following items have been replaced (and are therefore no longer suspect):
From the fuel side:
1. Pump
2. Filter
3. FPR
4. Injectors
From the spoark side:
1. Coil (also relocated it to the firewall, so engine heat is not the issue either)
2. Wires
3. Rotor
4. Cap
5. Plugs
Computer side:
1. ECU (I have 2; it does it with both)
2. TPS (because of other issues)
3. IAC
I am thinking it could be the CAM position sensor that it is acting up, but other than that, I am out of ideas...
I will replace the following sensors (which I already have) just for good measure:
1. MAP sensor
2. Intake Temp Sensor
3. Thermostat
4. Oil Pressure Sensor
I am now trying to get the Crank Position Sensor locally; we'll see how that goes, but this issue is REALLY getting on my nerves! Plus, I got a ride next month, and I need to Jeep to be running flawlessly, otherwise, no sense in going wheeling when I am going to have a hard time just driving down the road!
Any other ideas on what it could be?
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The Crank Shaft Position Sensor might be the problem. I friend with a 2.5 TJ had some similar problems recently and that is what it was. The mechanic first suspected the O2 sensor but that didn't solve it. No codes are showing up?
And both the dealership and a mechanic shop have told me you cannot distinguish between Cam shaft sensor and crank shaft sensor problems. At one shop, they were good enough to try both and leave in and charge for only the one that solved the problem (this was in a Dodge Neon, not a Jeep).
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The Crank Shaft Position Sensor might be the problem. I friend with a 2.5 TJ had some similar problems recently and that is what it was. The mechanic first suspected the O2 sensor but that didn't solve it. No codes are showing up?
And both the dealership and a mechanic shop have told me you cannot distinguish between Cam shaft sensor and crank shaft sensor problems. At one shop, they were good enough to try both and leave in and charge for only the one that solved the problem (this was in a Dodge Neon, not a Jeep).
Well, I plan on changing both, so if that is the issue, it should be solved. Oh, and the O2 sensor was also replaced about a month ago or so...
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I'm gonna say there's a bad/intermitant ground.
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I'm gonna say there's a bad/intermitant ground.
OK, so WHERE would you look for the cause? Because I am out of ideas by now...
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It seems I counted my blessings way too soon... The Jeep is at it AGAIN! Same issue. You are driving, and all of the sudden, it looses power (as if you unplugged the coil). If you load it (give it gas while in gear), it will stall even more and then it will backfire (as if fuel is reaching the exhaust or something). If you accelerate with the clutch in, sometimes it comes back to life, sometimes it doesn't.
well, i had this issue with a vehicle way back when i started driving. I replaced the coil with a better one combined with a spark booster and after a little while i started to have an issue, turns out the spark was closing on the outside of the coil rather than thru the wire>distributor>plug and was misfiring, rev it up past a certain point it would come to life (probably when the spark booster was less efficient). I removed the booster and all was good - makes me think of your coil problems, i can't remember if you have a stock one or the 48kV one.
EDIT: could be MAP and x3 on crank sensor - might as well replace them since you put all the other new stuff in it. I think it's spark related but who knows.
Does it backfire out the intake at all (or whatever you call that)? if yes that's possibly too lean, so in that case could be MAP or an injector.
Does it do this at idle (like running in 3 cyl?)
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well, i had this issue with a vehicle way back when i started driving. I replaced the coil with a better one combined with a spark booster and after a little while i started to have an issue, turns out the spark was closing on the outside of the coil rather than thru the wire>distributor>plug and was misfiring, rev it up past a certain point it would come to life (probably when the spark booster was less efficient). I removed the booster and all was good - makes me think of your coil problems, i can't remember if you have a stock one or the 48kV one.
EDIT: could be MAP and x3 on crank sensor - might as well replace them since you put all the other new stuff in it. I think it's spark related but who knows.
Does it backfire out the intake at all (or whatever you call that)? if yes that's possibly too lean, so in that case could be MAP or an injector.
Does it do this at idle (like running in 3 cyl?)
As far as coils, I have tried everything from Screaming Demon, to Mopar, to the cheap stuff. As for the backfire, it is caused by the unburnt fuel reaching the exhaust manifold, I think, as when it does this, I get a code for a rich mix... I am replacing the sensors I already got (MAP, CPS, Oil Pressure, and Intake Air Temp) plus the cam position sensor (I ordered one online, but I am also looking locally; dont mind carrying a spare!).
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Have you tried swapping out the engine harness?
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Have you tried swapping out the engine harness?
You mean all the cables in the rig? No; but I think Id rather sell he rig than get into that....
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You mean all the cables in the rig? No; but I think Id rather sell he rig than get into that....
is not that hard but you can probably get away without doing it, you could rather measure the wires from the sensors to the PCM if it comes to that
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Have you pulled the ECU connector and checked for corrosion? Some of the yj's had issue with that...
Dave
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Have you pulled the ECU connector and checked for corrosion? Some of the yj's had issue with that...
Dave
That would be simpler; but how to correct it if it is the problem? I mean, it's not like I can put a steel brush in there...
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You mean all the cables in the rig? No; but I think Id rather sell he rig than get into that....
There really isn't that many wires in the engine harness. It would be plug & play. I'd probably check the bus to the ECM.
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i doubt there's corrosion at the PCM, its a sealed connector, but if there is you can use some electrical contact cleaner spray and should do the trick (dont use a brush or needle or anything of that sort).
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That would be simpler; but how to correct it if it is the problem? I mean, it's not like I can put a steel brush in there...
It comes out with a couple bolts easy peasy.. Lift the washer jug out first...
I used some electrical cleaner (Sparingly) q-tips and then used electrical grease on the pins.
A toothbrush worked pretty good for just scrubbing it up..
I did a U-Boat maneuver a few years ago.. Luckily got clear through and made it to dry land... :)
Dave
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I did a U-Boat maneuver a few years ago.. Luckily got clear through and made it to dry land... :)
Dave
I've done a couple of those, and even though I have swapped out the ECU's, I never really looked at the plug itself.... I'll check it out just in case...
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OK, guys, I am REALLY STUMPED now! As it is mentioned earlier on, the Jeep has a fault where it is running fine, and all of the sudden there is no power whatsoever (as if you unplugged the coil), then it starts up again. If you give it fuel, it will detonate (my thinking is that the injectors ARE in fact pumping fuel, but since there is no spark, the fuel goes out of the exhaust, and detonates when it comes into contact with it).
Since I was not sure if it was ignition, fuel, or computer, I replaced the following parts:
From the fuel side:
Fuel sending unit (includes pump)
Fuel Filter
Fuel injectors
Fuel Pressure Regulator
Ignition:
Rotor
Cap
Wires
Coil
Plugs
Computer:
ECU (I had another one as a backup)
TPS (was faulty anyway)
IAC (had some idle issues)
CPS
Cam Position Sensor
IAT
MAP
Oil Pressure Sensor (was also acting up)
I also checked the plug on the ECU, and there is no corrosion whatsoever. There is also no cat on my Jeep, so it's not the cat. Air filter was recently cleaned out (along with the whole TB) and oiled (Fram AirHog). I am really stumped as to what it can be, and I need help tracing this down. Other than swaping out the engine harness (which, if I were to do, I would start considering an engine swap instead, but I would have to evaluate costs), what else should I be checking for?
Felipe
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Maybe a faulty ignition switch (down on the column) or faulty relays.
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Maybe a faulty ignition switch (down on the column) or faulty relays.
You know what, I have NOT checked relays... Thanks for pointing that out!
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is your rpm on your tacho still up when this happens? it is important to know.
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is your rpm on your tacho still up when this happens? it is important to know.
It happens under load, but it is not tied to RPM. I have had it happen when off the line, or when driving (always below 4K RPM, but the point in the RPM range varies).
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It happens under load, but it is not tied to RPM. I have had it happen when off the line, or when driving (always below 4K RPM, but the point in the RPM range varies).
what i am asking is to tell us if the RPM indicator dies right off when this happens (as in going to zero) although the engine is still at 2000 or 3000 rpm (carried by the Jeep weight) or maybe dropping some or becoming erratic - I'm trying to figure out if you have a crank signal issue and when this happens there is none or less or maybe you have a PCM general voltage or ground failure.
EDIT: just occured to me, could be an ASD relay or wiring issue also, might want to swap it out (you might be able to use the horn one for testing) and see if it improves at all
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what i am asking is to tell us if the RPM indicator dies right off when this happens (as in going to zero) although the engine is still at 2000 or 3000 rpm (carried by the Jeep weight) or maybe dropping some or becoming erratic - I'm trying to figure out if you have a crank signal issue and when this happens there is none or less or maybe you have a PCM general voltage or ground failure.
EDIT: just occurred to me, could be an ASD relay or wiring issue also, might want to swap it out (you might be able to use the horn one for testing) and see if it improves at all
No, the Tach shows the correct RPM, so there the ignition switch should not be the cause... If it were, the tach should show 0 RPM (as in when you shut down the engine). I also asked the mechanic to swap the horn and ASD relays; I did this when Neale_RS commented on the relay possibility.
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If it's not the relays, you could try running the engine and then moving wires by hand to try to provoke the problem.
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No, the Tach shows the correct RPM, so there the ignition switch should not be the cause... If it were, the tach should show 0 RPM (as in when you shut down the engine). I also asked the mechanic to swap the horn and ASD relays; I did this when Neale_RS commented on the relay possibility.
the rpm eliminates the crank signal (i think) and the power to the PCM (main and run). Since you tested the ASD (probably I got that idea from reading neale's post) only thing i can think of is spark related (cap, rotor, dist, coil), if you find a cheap tach with an inductive probe that goes on a plug wire it could be a good tool to check for misses to the plugs. Unless it cuts out the fuel but by what you describe that's not the issue
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Bad wiring to the coil is my best guess at this point.
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have they tried running it with a scanner connected, that should show what the parameters are (as in output from MAP, TPS, O2, crank signal, etc), if any of those are out of whack when is doing it could be a good starting point unless you can track a problem to the ignition path (i don't think the scanner will show that, it won't actually).
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Bad wiring to the coil is my best guess at this point.
With all the problems he has had with coils in the past that would be a very good start.
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have they tried running it with a scanner connected, that should show what the parameters are (as in output from MAP, TPS, O2, crank signal, etc), if any of those are out of whack when is doing it could be a good starting point unless you can track a problem to the ignition path (i don't think the scanner will show that, it won't actually).
As far as I know, that can only be done with OBDII, right? Mine is OBDI...
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As far as I know, that can only be done with OBDII, right? Mine is OBDI...
difference between OBDII and OBDI is that the former uses a common standard so any OBDII scanner can be used to connect to any vehicle, with OBDI you'd need a scanner compatible or that can support that specific vehicle but you can still monitor and display them (and even logging on some advanced ones).
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Go on Ebay and find a used OTC scanner with Chrysler software that's up 91 or 92 or something equivalent. That will give you data stream so you can see fuel trim, knock sensor, map, tps, timing advance all pretty close to real time. Will also show how well the O2 sensor toggles lean and rich
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if I knew Spanish i would have gotten this one, works for both obd 1&2 and has adapters for Chrysler, Ford and GM for OBD1
http://www.ebay.com/itm/231033525017?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649
send him a message, its the second time he has it listed and didn't sell (i'm sure it's the Spanish exclusive language that kept it from selling, on Amazon is $170 brand new).
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I have an OBDI scanner; I just dont know if it will stream... It's an Auto X-Ray one.
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i'm pretty sure it will
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The tool I have is the AutoXray Codescout 2500 (http://www.autoxray.com/product_detail.php?pid=126). Looking at the specs, it does not mention real time reading, though...
The good news about all this issues I am having is that I am finding ALL the little problems the Jeep had. Yesterday, some cracked fuel hoses were replaced, and the ASD relay was swapped with the horn relay (to rule that out). They are taking the jeep out for a test run today; I am crossing my fingers!!!
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its a code reader not a scanner so you're right, it won't work.
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Hopefully that will solve the problems.
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OK, list of parts that have been replaced and are no longer in question as the source of this never ending problem:
From the fuel side:
Fuel sending unit (includes pump)
Fuel Filter
Fuel injectors
Fuel Pressure Regulator
Replaced some cracked fuel hoses (at the filter and at the tank)
Charcoal canister
FPR
Ignition:
Rotor
Cap
Wires
Coil
Plugs
Computer:
ECU (I had another one as a backup)
TPS (was faulty anyway)
IAC (had some idle issues)
CPS
Cam Position Sensor
IAT
MAP
Oil Pressure Sensor (was also acting up)
ASD Relay
O2 Sensor
I also checked the plug on the ECU, and there is no corrosion whatsoever. There is also no cat on my Jeep, so it's not the cat. Air filter was recently cleaned out (along with the whole TB) and oiled (Fram AirHog).
When it fails, I get a code 52 (Sustained rich air/fuel ratio condition detected in O2 sensor bank 1 position 1), which leads me to believe that the problem is on the ignition side. Besides, if I give it gas while it's acting up, it starts detonating heavily (kind of like a backfire, but I think it is the unburnt fuel hitting the exhaust manifold).
Today, I sent the Jeep to an Electromechanic shop to have the electrical side looked at, as I am out of ideas by now... Only things left that I have not checked is engine harness and Ignition Switch (but considering it sputters, and everything else continues to work, even the stereo, I doubt it is the ignition switch).
Felipe
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Maybe it is the O2 sensor. I have known of some problems here locally when they don't put in exactly the right one.
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Maybe it is the O2 sensor. I have known of some problems here locally when they don't put in exactly the right one.
But the problem has persisted through 3 sensors, so I don't think that's the problem...
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Right by the oil filter kinda is a stud with a bunch of ground wires on it.. that nut got loose on mine once and raised havoc.. It affects ignition and fuel injection... Or did on mine.
If both ECU are old there is a known problem with the primary capacitors in them getting old and dieing.. Has more to do with age than use, and it causes several random ignition issues, as well as occasional charging issues. YJ's are all getting old enough that I see this coming down the road just like the cj's with the variable venturi carb..
How old is your gasoline, and is the tank full? Mine will back fire if the fuel level gets below 1/8 tank and I go up a steep hil or around a sharp corner (Fuel starvation) and it get worse with throttle.
SOunds like you still need to get a diag scanner hooked up and see whats happening when it pops..
Dave
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According to the mechanic, the grounds all checked out fine. He did find a problem with the O2 sensor (probably caused by the excess fuel not detonated), and with the fuel pump (both were recently changed). He says the Jeep is no longer acting up when he replaced these 2 items, though, and, according to him, the Jeep feels more powerful now (for a 4 banger). Also, the seal on the FPR was bad, so fuel pressure was really crappy. As for the Hesco one, I gave it to him to install, but it seems it is not the right size (maybe a 4.0 FPR?). Anyway, I will report how the jeep is working once I get it back (today or tomorrow, depending on when I have time).
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Sounds good, hopefully that will be the end of the problems.
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Guys, one question; here in Panama they JUST started using gasoline mixed with ethanol; anyone had any issues as a result of this? In theory, it should be fine (IIRC, the gas I used to put in the Jeep in Miami when I lived there up to 2009 had 10% ethanol, and I had no issues, but just in case...).
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On Road Kill they said that it goes bad faster than normal gas (they had to clean a carburetor that had a lot of greenish buildup in it). So the Jeep needs to keep being used, not left to sit for extended periods. Other than that, it should be ok.
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On Road Kill they said that it goes bad faster than normal gas (they had to clean a carburetor that had a lot of greenish buildup in it). So the Jeep needs to keep being used, not left to sit for extended periods. Other than that, it should be ok.
I guess that's just a perfect excuse to wheel more often than I have been! :clap:
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Well, i got the Jeep back yesterday; drove it home without issues, and drove to the office today without issues. Tomorrow I am going to the beach, and I will take the Jeep on a bit longer test run (it's about an hour drive each way, so I am guessing if the problem will come up again, it will show it's ugly face during the 2 hours of the drive). Anyway, I am keeping my fingers crossed in the mean time!
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Well, so far so good! I drove it to the beach (80 km away, which is about 50 miles), and so far so good. I did notice I have 5th gear back (I can actually accelerate in 5th in flat ground), so the Jeep does feel a bit healthier than what it was. Fuel consumption is still crappy (I got 12.3 mpg with this tank), but, considering that I was doing 70 mph most of the way trying to catch the wife in her Edge, it's not surprising (plus, the Jeep was only getting 14 to 15 mpg during its best times!)- I am just happy it did not cough or backfire once during the trip!
On a side note, though (it's not a Jeep if nothing else fails after you fixed your current problem), the cruise control finally gave out. I don't know if it is the system itself, or if a connection has come loose. I also still need to install the automatic fan control from Flex-a-Lite, which is sitting at home, but I think I am all set for the wheeling trip this weekend!
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That's good news about the previous problem. Hopefully the new problem is something easy.
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That's good news about the previous problem. Hopefully the new problem is something easy.
Not too worried about the cruise control; worse case scenario, I run without it...
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Not all that good a gas milage and yes modern gas with ethanol does affect milage adversely.
My fat &ss Jeep gets between 10-13 mpg mixed highway, heading to the mountains and city driving. Not terribly disappointed with that.
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Not all that good a gas milage and yes modern gas with ethanol does affect milage adversely.
My fat &ss Jeep gets between 10-13 mpg mixed highway, heading to the mountains and city driving. Not terribly disappointed with that.
I'm pretty sure that IF (big if there!) I drove at 50ish, the mileage would drastically increase. But at 70, I could FEEL the air pressure building up in front of the Jeep. It's good to know I have the option of doing 70, though...