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General Forums => The Mess Hall => Topic started by: SamsonJR on July 26, 2013, 03:42:01 PM
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So When my Rear Driveshaft ate a joint, I decided it was time to do the axle joint's as well. the pass side has some play. I'm going to order the joint's from Mopar Monday. I've never done them before. My dad gave me this specialty tool he used wile at Chrysler for the wheel bearings. Depending on cost, I'd like to replace them as well. Just thought I'd post about this, I'm going to be doing this by myself "like everything else I do" Just wanted to see if anyone can tell me what to expect/ Look out for. I'm going to start doing research on the assembly to understand it better before I dig in. any info would be appreciated!
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get spicer u-joints, absolutely no point on buying mopar branded ones probably made by spicer best case scenario
what bearing tool? you don't need any specialized tool to remove the bearing, there's the main bolt holding the axle to he hub and 3 bolts in the back of the knuckle, depending how rusted it is would come out with more or less convincing but you can break it away by trying to rotate the bearing housing from the knuckle once you removed the 3 bolts. The axle stays in but dont try to bang the end in before you have the bearing coming out of the knuckle. also be careful to not mess up the axle seal.
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hey sharpmen, this is the tool I was planning on geting spicer joints, I thought I could get them threw Mopar. All the same if I can, I'll get a price from them.
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i have no idea what that tool is for but you don't need it with the D30, the housing, bearing and hub come pre-assembled, you don't need to take them apart just unbolt the old housing and bolt the new one back in, the axle end should come out of the hub fairly easy. You'll see what i mean when you get to it.
EDIT: as far as spicer u-joints, i just meant you get them more expensive from mopar that's all, quality will be the same regardless if they're both spicer.
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Is that tool used to install seals in the diff housing?
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Is that tool used to install seals in the diff housing?
that could be
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ok, so the tool's I posted above.. the hexagonal tool is a miller p/n 6797. it's used to do inner axle seals. the long rod with threads is a miller 6288. that's for pulling two seals together. the other parts are for the two tools, there dummy bearings. My dad was under the impression I was tearing apart the whole axle. I would like to just do the U joints. I told him that when I called him today, and he said "if you start messing with something that's been happy for the past 20 years, it will start to leak", so he thinks I should replace seals and bearings too. This puts me in a tight spot. I have a D30 out of a 95 yj sitting at my Mom's house I picked up for cheap not to long ago. I wanted to build that up over the winter and find a 8.8 for the rear and do the same. I really don't want to be throwing money at the axle I have in the jeep now b/c I'm ultimately going to be replacing it. The axle is NOT leaking right now. I DO need to replace the U joints in the one I have now. Shapmen, you said it's pretty strait forward in your post. I apologize for all the confusion. My Dad is a great mechanic, and goes above and beyond whatever he builds or repairs. I don't have nearly as much experience as he does, and I'm doing this myself can I get around replacing seals, and just doing U joints?
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leave the seals,you'll need to take the cover off and i can't remember but i think at least for one side you need to pull the diff out, if you have a buddy helping or you're really careful taking the axle out (support it with one hand where it goes into the tube so it won't rest on the seal) and putting it back in you should be fine, afterall taking the axles out again to replace the seals would take little time compared to the rest if you really need to do that later.If your bearings are good don't replace them, put the money into the other axle you're building.
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When I replaced the u joints I did not replace the seals and they didn't leak. But you do need to be pretty careful.
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thanks guys, I'm doing some more research on the axle, I should be getting the parts by next weekend and start tearing into it
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OK back to the front axle.. So I'm getting ready to order parts for the D30, It seems there are different U joints. The D30 in the jeep is a 91. I plan to run a posi lock on this axle until I finish the other D30 I have... Here's the question. The other D30 I have is out of a 95 YJ. I'm unsure of the gear ratio. does the 95 have the 5-760x joints or the 297's? I Know the 91 has the 297's. my question is.. Can I take the axles out of my 95 D30, put new U joints in them "hopefully the Stronger ones" and put them in my 91 D30? this would one- save me time having my jeep apart, and two- hopefully upgrade what I'm running with now. also the 95 axle I plan to replace the shafts with chromo shafts anyway when I beef it up so I'd be using extra parts I have laying around.
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5-760x is the replacement part for 5-297x. Basically the same joint as Spicer discontinued the 5-297x. Your '91 will have 5-260x while the '95 has 5-297x. And yes, you can mix and match the shafts. They are both 27 spline so use the 5-297x's.
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Hey Jeffy, I just stopped by my mom's and had a look at the 95 axle. it's a non ABS. Your right my 91 has 260's I was wrong, the 95 will still have the 297's even though it doesn't have ABS? If the 95 has 297's I can order the 5-760's for it then correct?
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You can use the 5-760s with the '95 axle shafts.
Actually, you could just build up the '91 axle since the housing is the same as the '95. You might want to look into getting an XJ D30 which is also high pinion with the advantage of not having the disconnect housing.
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Right now I have the 91 axle in the jeep, I picked up the 95 to build. I wasn't expecting to have to do any work on the one I have in the jeep, but since the u joint is shot, I have to fix it so I can drive it. I'm in no rush to build up the other axle. I'm just thinking instead of having to tear apart the axle in my jeep, replace the joints and put it back together, I'd use the axles in the 95, replace the joints in them and swap them into the 91. When I do build up the 95 axle, I'll just use a block off plate for the vacuum disconnect, and would run manual hubs via a kit. But that's not for a wile. I think my best bet is to remove the axles from the 95, take them to my driveshaft guy, get a set of spicer u joints from him and install the axles into the 91. I've been reading a bunch of mixed answers online that ONLY the ABS 95's had the 297's, others say they all had them, the way I see it, if I have the 260's in my 91, even if the 95 has 260's its like I just replaced them right? It would be nice if the 95 I have has the 297's b/c I'd get to upgrade instead of just replacing what I'm using
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'95 should be the larger 297 regardless of ABS.
I wouldn't bother with a locking hub kit. They use small weak parts and will be the weak link if an otherwise decent axle. If it's locking hubs you want, start building a Waggy d44 now. You'll get your locking hubs, along with larger brakes, stronger axlehousing, more (affordable) high-steer options, better aftermarket support, deeper gear options, serviceable wheel bearings.
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Hey Jeffy, I just stopped by my mom's and had a look at the 95 axle. it's a non ABS. Your right my 91 has 260's I was wrong, the 95 will still have the 297's even though it doesn't have ABS? If the 95 has 297's I can order the 5-760's for it then correct?
5-297x's as for all intensive purposes has been discontinued. Spicer does not make them anymore. They have officially been replaced with the 5-760's. There is no difference externally. 5-790x's are stronger then the old 5-297x's so there is no reason to look for 5-297x joints.
I don't believe there were any requirements that forced ABS YJ's to have older style u-Joints. The XJ and ZJ were using the bigger joints already. You can easily measure the caps and see the difference.
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You might want to look into getting an XJ D30 which is also high pinion with the advantage of not having the disconnect housing.
I remember reading somewhere that the housing with disconnect is stronger due to not having the long tube but i'm not sure how true it is.
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The disconnect D30 very likely is stiffer but it is also probably more likely to crack (how is stength defined?). billavista in one of his articles said that he preferred the disconnect D30. The non-disconnect axle would be easier to fab for custom link suspensions, and is lighter. Those might be the only real advantages.
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this reminds me of the JK front axle which you're supposed to sleeve the long tube to prevent bending or cracking.
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this reminds me of the JK front axle which you're supposed to sleeve the long tube to prevent bending or cracking.
Well on those the tube is a lot longer and it cracks inboard of the control arms/trackbar mount.
In all my years with Jeeps, I've never heard of anyone cracking their YJ D30 at the sleeve unless they were doing something stupid and in that case it's moot.
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Jeffy, I understand the 297's are no longer made, the 790's would be what I'd be putting in the axle's. I'm not going to be looking for 297's I just wanted to make sure that's what are in my 95 axle before I ordered parts. I'll measure the cap size tomorrow. as for a D44, I looked for one for a little bit, But came across this D30 for real cheap so that's what I picked up. Ideally I'd like to get a pair of D44's but I'm working with what I can find. Who knows, If I find a decent pair I'll hop on em. I was going to pick up a 8.8 explorer rear to replace the D35 eventually, But one thing at a time for me, I need this thing driveable first lol.
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Ok, some progress with my axles. Yesterday I started to take the 95 axle apart, My compressor's motor fried itself so no inpact gun. I ended up removing the 2 piece axle with the hub still attached. I have to remove the other side today, I'm going to pick up new joints from my driveshaft guy monday and replace them at my dad's shop. I want to remove the carrier in the 95 axle, its not budging. I read people use a pry bar to remove them, i also saw you can use a spreader attached to the pumpkin at the cover bolt holes. I'm sure my dad has one, I'll just use that, unless someone knows a good safe way to remove it? I'm thinking of replacing the seals on the axle in my jeep when I put in these axles. Should I go to Mopar to get them or are there better replacements? I Figure while I'm in there I may as well replace them, I don't want to put the axles in to have to tear it apart again to do the seals.
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If you're prying you want to roll the carrier out of the diff. It should roll towards you, just be sure you're ready to catch it.
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are the u-joints bad in the '95 shafts? just wondering, you could replace then as they are.
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hey guys, so today was my sisters 21st bday, not much jeep work lol. Jeffy, I called my dad to tell him my progress and ask about the axles and removing the carrier, he told me "most people using a separator do not use a dial indicator and end up messing up the pumpkin wile removing the carrier" he told me pry it out with a few rags at the contact point. and to keep track of the retainers and what side and direction they came off. So tomorrow I will remove it with a pry bar. Sharpmen, the 95 shafts are in fair condition, there not rebuilt but not nearly as worn as my 91's. I'm going to my driveshaft guy, who's a really good friend of my dad's monday. I'm going to see what he will charge to replace them, and if it's more then I can afford right now, then what the joints will cost. if they are reasonable I will either replace them or have him do them. I've never done them before but this isn't rocket science, I'm sure I could manage. My dad is telling me to replace the seals when I pull my axles to replace to the 95's. I've never done this either. I'm kind of nervous removing and replacing them to be honest. He said "messing with something that has been sitting for 20 + years, they will not like it". He said wile your in there, just do them. what do you guys think? I've read of people trying 6 or more times getting these seals in right, and others doing it fine the first time. I have the tool to do it, but it still scares me lol. Now when I swap the axles, can I leave in 91 intermediate shaft and the shift collar? or should I remove them and use the 95? One last thing, since I have 2 jeeps to work on now, I have to replace a wheel bearing on my Fiances 93. I found Timkin replacement hubs for cheap! I'm ordering 2 for her. wile I'm in there should I replace mine? or use what I have? Mine seem fine, But a second opinion wouldn't hurt. I'd like to use the ones I have considering the money spent on them could go towards my steering box, But I don't want to half a$$ my job either. Sorry for the long post and the silly questions, I'm learning, and would rather ask a lot of questions to do it right, then assume and do it wrong. thanks guys!
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I'm not really sure why using the case spreader has anything to do with using a dial indicator. IIRC the D35 has the shims after the bearing so yeah keep track of those.
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I'm not really sure why using the case spreader has anything to do with using a dial indicator. IIRC the D35 has the shims after the bearing so yeah keep track of those.
you use a dial indicator to monitor how much you spread the pumpkin, although you could just spread slowly until you can pull the carrier.
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Given that you will be building the 95 axle, it might be best to do just enough to use the 91 right now. The bearings can be put on the 95 later so that would not be a double expense but the seals would be, double labor too. The only reason for removing the carrier is to do the seals, so you could avoid that for now.
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Ok, some progress with my axles. Yesterday I started to take the 95 axle apart, My compressor's motor fried itself so no inpact gun. I ended up removing the 2 piece axle with the hub still attached. I have to remove the other side today .... I want to remove the carrier in the 95 axle, its not budging.
just occured to me that you might have a problem - you neeed to remove the shafts first before you can take the carrier out, based on what you said above sounds like you still have the driver's side shaft and the 1/2 shaft on the passenger side in there.
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Hey guys, ok so the dial indicator, I was told is used to monitor how much you spread the pumpkin. My dad told me if you spread it to much you will mess up the shape of the pumpkin. As for replacing the hubs, using what I have now should work, I don't think there is anything wrong with mine as they are, I was just wondering if i should replace them wile I had everything apart, and when I do build up the 95 axle, just use them over. I don't want to go crazy repairing the 91 axle, b/c ultimately I will be replacing it. I just want it to be the best it can be for what it is using minimal parts for now. I was hoping I could get away with leaving in the seals, I just wanted to double check if that's a good idea or not. I don't want to replace the shafts and put it back together to find it leaks. Sharpmen, I have the intermediate shaft and the collar out of the 95 axle. I pulled the diff cover and attempted to remove the carrier, I did NOT remove the drivers side yet. I guess thats why the carrier would not budge... makes sense.. I did not force anything out, I just removed the bearing retainers and attempted to wiggle the carrier out. The 91 axle, the one in my jeep right now, I have not removed anything from. I plan to replace the joints in the axles I will be installing and have everything ready to go in before taking it apart. Now can I use the intermediate shaft in the 91 axle with the outer shaft from the 95? or do I have to remove it and use the 95's? Oh, one last thing, My plan was to get drivetrain components and replace one at a time. I want to put in a 8.8 to replace the D35, I want to replace the ax5 with an Ax15. I will do those swaps before I put in the 95 D30 in the front. It just so happens that my U joints went in my front axle, so I needed to fix that before anything else. Building up the D30 was last on my list. lol
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update, I removed the other hub and axle, and the carrier came out with very little effort. going to bring the axles to my driveshaft guy tomorrow and see what I can do about rebuilding them.
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you use a dial indicator to monitor how much you spread the pumpkin, although you could just spread slowly until you can pull the carrier.
I don't think I've even seen anyone damage their housing with one. In most cases if you own one you know how to use it since it's a specialized tool. You only need to do it enough to get the carrier in and out. Otherwise, you do without and try to wedge it back in.
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you use it to set the preload on the carrier bearings, idea is to spread just enough to add the thicker shims so you don't deform it and lose the preload, you don't really need one to take it out, prying works if it doesn't come out by hand. It's the service manual procedure so the new mechanics don't screw up the preload, once you get a few setup the dial indicator is probably unnecessary.
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you use it to set the preload on the carrier bearings, idea is to spread just enough to add the thicker shims so you don't deform it and lose the preload, you don't really need one to take it out, prying works if it doesn't come out by hand. It's the service manual procedure so the new mechanics don't screw up the preload, once you get a few setup the dial indicator is probably unnecessary.
I know that part but I mean using it to get the carrier out.
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I know that part but I mean using it to get the carrier out.
yeah, you don't need it (at least for D30, dunno on bigger axles).
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hey guys, just got back my axles from my driveshaft guy, 45 each for the parts and installation on each shaft. he put in Spicer 760's. I cleaned up the hubs I have off the 95 axle and cleaned up the shafts, I'm going to be swapping them out tomorrow. I'm going to pick up some anti-seize for the hubs and knuckles, and some axle grease. I just grease where the seals sit on the axles and the splines right?
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nothing on the splines going into the diff, you can put some oil on them just to slide thru the seal more easily, either a film of oil or grease where the seal runs so it won't spin dry but that's about it. On the hub side i never put grease on the splines but I don't know what others do or recommend.
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Ok, axles are in! I didn't replace the seals, and so far no leaks. 4wd works fine, everything seems to be in place. Thank you everyone who helped. on to the next repair/ upgrade
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glad you got it done.