4bangerjp.com
General Forums => The Mess Hall => Topic started by: stan98tj on September 18, 2013, 12:06:02 PM
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You still looking to do a TDI swap? Do you have an idea as to when? Looks like my TDI swap may get pushed back as my current project is dragging some, and "we" just bought new windows for the house.
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I'm now debating it...even though I still REALLY want it in there. When I think about the added power of a V8 and that I could have it in there with an automatic transmission for less than half the cost? I could have that done for me over the winter versus waiting now until next Summer for enough funds for the TDI.
I want it BECAUSE it is so different...but that is what makes the cost and dealing with any problems after the install stick out so much.
I know 20 guys that would come over and fix any V8 problems fo free, but no one that would know what to do with that VW engine. Just nervous....
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I'm now debating it...even though I still REALLY want it in there. When I think about the added power of a V8 and that I could have it in there with an automatic transmission for less than half the cost? I could have that done for me over the winter versus waiting now until next Summer for enough funds for the TDI.
I want it BECAUSE it is so different...but that is what makes the cost and dealing with any problems after the install stick out so much.
I know 20 guys that would come over and fix any V8 problems fo free, but no one that would know what to do with that VW engine. Just nervous....
I think that's the biggest mark against the TDI. Not to mention a slew of aftermarket parts that are cheap. I'd go with a 6L80e and a 5.3L.
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If I were still in the US, I would go definitely go for a V8. Here, I would most likely go to a Toyota Diesel setup, as they are WAY more common than anything else.
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There are a ton of TDis out there. Not worried about parts or finding folks who know how to work on them. The V8 swap is too common for my taste. The mpg and low end torque offered by the diesel make that swap the thing i'm most attracted to.
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Seems like it would be a lot simpler/cheaper to just swap in a 4.0L/AW4 combo. Doesn't have the gee whiz factor of a V8 or VW, but if the 2.5 has been sufficient so far then a 4.0L would be more than enough ;)
For a V8, I personally wouldn't even consider a 5.3 swap. approx 300HP/300 tq vs 265/290 for an engine that bolts in? Hemi or nothing ;)
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For a V8, I personally wouldn't even consider a 5.3 swap. approx 300HP/300 tq vs 265/290 for an engine that bolts in? Hemi or nothing ;)
Well, no engine is really a bolt in...
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Well, no engine is really a bolt in...
Except for installing the factory frame mounts, a 4.0L is. And its already compatible with every other piece of equipment in the jeep.
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Seems like it would be a lot simpler/cheaper to just swap in a 4.0L/AW4 combo. Doesn't have the gee whiz factor of a V8 or VW, but if the 2.5 has been sufficient so far then a 4.0L would be more than enough ;)
For a V8, I personally wouldn't even consider a 5.3 swap. approx 300HP/300 tq vs 265/290 for an engine that bolts in? Hemi or nothing ;)
That's only for a 4.7L Stroker, which I don't think is a bad engine. On a mild-budget and with time against you the 4.0L would be easier to install. No changes to anything past the firewall. Exhaust or emissions. Would use your existing PS pump, A/C compressor, alternator, water pump, radiator, etc...
From what I've heard some bolt on the 2.5L mounts to the engine then move the frame mount forward instead of trying to locate or fabricate 4.0L frame mounts.
I've actually been considering something along these lines since the more stock parts I can use the easier it is to get past the DOT. I'd use a 4.7L rebuild block and then get a high mileage 4.0L and swap parts till I get a running engine. Easier way for TJ guys is to buy a high mileage TJ, do the swap then sell off what's left. You could save a lot doing it that way.
Still a 5.3L is a nice engine. Backed by a 6l80e would be my choice if I was going the V8 route. It's a strong engine that weighs less then the 4.0L. Lots of potential for hop-up parts and it gets decent gas mileage. Though I'd probably do a 5.7L since there's a lot less headaches and a lot more parts but the engine started to be phased out by 2000.
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For the expense of a 4.0 (or cheaper) I could do the V8.
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Except for installing the factory frame mounts, a 4.0L is. And its already compatible with every other piece of equipment in the jeep.
My understanding is that the whole ECU (and thus the wiring harness) has to be changed (for one, I know the tach will not function if swapped from an I4 to an I6 - or V6 for that matter), as does the transmission (there's no way an AX-5 will hold up to the 4.0L). TC also have different input shafts (manuals do, anyway), but this could be made to work by swapping them. I am not sure if the stock 2.5L radiator will work (it might) either...
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For the expense of a 4.0 (or cheaper) I could do the V8.
It really depends on the V8 though. If you're going to go Hemi, it's a lot more expensive. If you're going to go illegal and do a 5.7L carb then it's a whole lot cheaper. but like I said, if you but a complete TJ and take the parts you need, which is a lot, you can sell off the rest. A friend of mine did this with a Dodge 2500 and his 5.7L swap was done pretty cheap because he sold the rest. Another friend did a 4.0L swap with a complete Jeep and it took a week to get it back together.
My understanding is that the whole ECU (and thus the wiring harness) has to be changed (for one, I know the tach will not function if swapped from an I4 to an I6 - or V6 for that matter), as does the transmission (there's no way an AX-5 will hold up to the 4.0L). TC also have different input shafts (manuals do, anyway), but this could be made to work by swapping them. I am not sure if the stock 2.5L radiator will work (it might) either...
Swapping the ECU isn't a big deal. The transmission will have to be swapped in either case. Transfer case isn't a big deal. Typically with a V8 swap, you're going to have to buy an adapter ($$$) to bolt up the transfer case.
Most V8's have the input and output on the opposite side as the Jeep's. 2.5L and 4.0L radiators are basically the same. The 4.0L has one more row of cores.
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For the expense of a 4.0 (or cheaper) I could do the V8.
There is no way. Donor Cherokee $1000 - done
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I get the draw towards just dumping in a Hemi or even a 4.0, but I gotta think of this: nearly the ENTIRE world wheels in diesel format. Go to the worst, most inhospitable places on earth where folks need to rely on their vehicles getting there and back, and you'll likely find it's a 4wd of some sort powered by a diesel of some sort. They last longer, go farther on a tank, provide better torque at lower revs, keep things slow and steady etc. I can't help but think we really put ourselves at a disadvantage by pushing gas engines in this country. I just got back from Martinique this week, I TRIED to spot a gasoline powered SUV and couldn't. Every 4wd truck on that Caribbean island (including all the JKs I saw) were diesel. I even saw a diesel XJ there. Yes, the conversion is costly, but I think it completes the package as what an offroad truck should be equipped with. However, there are alternatives..you can always gear better if you want.
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There is no way. Donor Cherokee $1000 - done
I agree unless it's a carbed V8. Though I'd get a TJ and do a direct swap. If you sell the left overs as well as your engine and transmission you could be able to recoup a lot of the money spent. Maybe even make it neutral. Mopar engines are $$$. I think a Hemi was around $14,000 as a crate. Ford stuff is cheaper and Chevy stuff is cheaper still. You can usually find a low mileage take out from a Tahoe or something for around $4000-5000 if you go that route. You'll still need to have the PCM flashed and probably need some adapters to make everything bolt together.
I get the draw towards just dumping in a Hemi or even a 4.0, but I gotta think of this: nearly the ENTIRE world wheels in diesel format. Go to the worst, most inhospitable places on earth where folks need to rely on their vehicles getting there and back, and you'll likely find it's a 4wd of some sort powered by a diesel of some sort. They last longer, go farther on a tank, provide better torque at lower revs, keep things slow and steady etc. I can't help but think we really put ourselves at a disadvantage by pushing gas engines in this country. I just got back from Martinique this week, I TRIED to spot a gasoline powered SUV and couldn't. Every 4wd truck on that Caribbean island (including all the JKs I saw) were diesel. I even saw a diesel XJ there. Yes, the conversion is costly, but I think it completes the package as what an offroad truck should be equipped with. However, there are alternatives..you can always gear better if you want.
Actually round the world (RTW) trips are usually done with the simplest things. No lockers, no ultra low gears... Diesels are used because most of the world uses them and parts are somewhat readily available. You're more likely to be able to find diesel then petrol. One of the reason you'll rarely find a petrol car on a small island is because diesel is used in the boats so they can use the same fuel.
Thing is, in the US or even North America, gas engines are way more prevalent. When you're in the backwoods, your chances of finding someone who can work on a carbed V8 is extremely high compared to a small diesel which are rare in the US. This is one of the reasons why the 4BT is a good choice for some since it's an industrial application. It's OK to be different when you have a ready supply of parts available. WHen you're in some small backwater town, it's less so.
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I get the draw towards just dumping in a Hemi or even a 4.0, but I gotta think of this: nearly the ENTIRE world wheels in diesel format. Go to the worst, most inhospitable places on earth where folks need to rely on their vehicles getting there and back, and you'll likely find it's a 4wd of some sort powered by a diesel of some sort. They last longer, go farther on a tank, provide better torque at lower revs, keep things slow and steady etc. I can't help but think we really put ourselves at a disadvantage by pushing gas engines in this country. I just got back from Martinique this week, I TRIED to spot a gasoline powered SUV and couldn't. Every 4wd truck on that Caribbean island (including all the JKs I saw) were diesel. I even saw a diesel XJ there. Yes, the conversion is costly, but I think it completes the package as what an offroad truck should be equipped with. However, there are alternatives..you can always gear better if you want.
I would definitely go with diesel if I ever swap out my engine. And Toyota is VERY popular here (you can find parts just about anywhere). So, IF (BIG IF!) I ever swap out my engine, I can STILL be a member of this forum, as my Jeep will STILL be a 4 Banger!
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I agree unless it's a carbed V8. Though I'd get a TJ and do a direct swap.
The benefit of using the Cherokee, aside from how common they are is that you get the AW4 too.
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I would definitely go with diesel if I ever swap out my engine. And Toyota is VERY popular here (you can find parts just about anywhere). So, IF (BIG IF!) I ever swap out my engine, I can STILL be a member of this forum, as my Jeep will STILL be a 4 Banger!
For you, a diesel would be better. For just about everyone outside the North America for that matter.
The benefit of using the Cherokee, aside from how common they are is that you get the AW4 too.
Well, that's if you want the AW4. Though you won't get the right tach nor mounts. Engine harness might also be too different with the pinouts depending on how old the cherokee is. Though you won't want a Renix 4.0L.