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General Forums => The Mess Hall => Topic started by: bigal389 on November 25, 2013, 08:14:48 AM
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I've read a few different places about a bastard pack leaf springs to restore the lift of the stock springs. Has anyone here done it and what is needed (u bolts, ect.)? Ineed to do something all of the leafs on my Yj have no arch to them at all.
Thanks, Al
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stock leafs i think were just straight (no arch) with the Jeep on wheels.
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Well that explains part of the ride quality. They're completely flat so when they flex they have to reverse arch.
Thanks, Al
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stock ones are better than any of the lift packs, you can try a 1'' lift (i don't know if anyone makes them though, i thing 2'' is the starting point). I have a Rough country 4'' lift kit, they are better than the previous 2.5'' kit i had but still stiffer than stock.
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I may try the bastard pack idea, the local pick and pull here has a 1/2 off sale this weekend. That would put me with $25 in a set of springs to build them out of. That way if I don't like them afterwards I've just lost my time and a little cash.
Al
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I've never heard of them called 'bastard packs'. Swapping leafs is very common. When building leafs you can go about it two ways. One is to have thicker leafs with more arch. The other is to have a bunch of thinner leafs with more arch. In any case you are raising the spring rate. There's no way around this. More spring rate will equal stiffer ride. The trick to to add the minimum about to get the job done. This is why custom leafs like from National Springs have 8 leafs or more in them.
Honestly, I'd probably swap out the leafs all together then to screw around with having to unclamp leafs and clamp them again. Stock YJ leafs do have some positive lift to them when new but not much. If your leafs are old you can take a main leaf from another YJ leaf, cut the ends off and slip that into the pack for about 1-1.5" of lift. This is commonly done when people go SOA.
Another option would be to use SJ front leafs. The leafs are offset so you can either get stock wheelbase or add 2" and 2" of height. CJ-7 rear leafs are 1" taller then YJ's.
And yes, if your U-bolts are stock you will want to replace them.
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Thanks Jeffy. I read about it on another forum and that was what they called them so I assumed it was the common name for them. Naturally I can't find the thread again.
Al
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remember to remove the track bars from your jeep (at-least the rear) if you want the suspension to move. definitely helped on my yj on and off road.
I'm too lazy to search for it now but I think someone on here made a leaf pack out of various junkyard leafs (some from an s10 or durango or something).
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The on I read about was from an s10 but I couldn't remember if they used the u bolts from the s10 or what. How did it handle and drive without the truck bars?
Thanks Al
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i removed mine in the rear but didn't like it, not steady at hwy speeds and really funny on the corners. I took the swaybar out of the front and helped a lot with flexing. greased poly bushings all around helps a lot with the ride quality (incuding the track bar bushings).
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I've made several sets of bastard packs and they turned out great. I start with an extra pair of front YJ leaf springs. Cut the spring eyes off and use the top two leaves from each pack as an add-a-leaf in each of your stock packs. It adds 1.5" of lift without making the ride more harsh.
You'll need new center bolts for the spring packs and new ubolts. Pry the spring clamps open and leave them open. Or hammer them back closed once you're finished.
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Bounty, can you provide a bit more detail on the YJ add-a-leaf bastard pack? Does one set of YJ front leaves lift both the front and rear? You could add some boomerang shackles, Ford truck front shock mounts, longer Bilstein shocks and get a couple of inches lift - just right for 31s with more articulation and a great ride for not too much money. You could drop the transfer or modify rear driveshaft (SYE/modified XJ front).
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Bounty, can you provide a bit more detail on the YJ add-a-leaf bastard pack? Does one set of YJ front leaves lift both the front and rear? You could add some boomerang shackles, Ford truck front shock mounts, longer Bilstein shocks and get a couple of inches lift - just right for 31s with more articulation and a great ride for not too much money. You could drop the transfer or modify rear driveshaft (SYE/modified XJ front).
You need four leaf packs since your taking the main leaf and in his case the second leaf out of each pack.
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i don't know if it's worth the effort (for the money you can get a new set for i mean). Is it better ride quality this way?
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i don't know if it's worth the effort (for the money you can get a new set for i mean). Is it better ride quality this way?
Honestly, I don't think so unless you're set on using stock springs and have access to some leafs already.
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You need four leaf packs since your taking the main leaf and in his case the second leaf out of each pack.
I think you misunderstood, you only need a donor front pair of springs and you're only adding one additional leaf to each of your existing 4 spring packs. You used the two longest leaves in each front spring pack for your additional four add-a-leaves. Adding one leaf per spring pack gives approx. 1.5" of lift without making the ride harsh.
The reason for only using two front spring packs is it offers the same amount of lift when added to all 4 corners, and the front packs have slightly more arch than the rears.
It's worth the trouble if your stock springs aren't bent or negative arched.
I went a step further when cutting the spring eyes off the top leaves by leaving about 1/8 of the spring eye. This slight upward curve supports the spring eye in the bastard pack and strengthens the spring where it needs it most, between the spring eye and the second leaf. This is where stock springs commonly bend.
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I'm going to try to get everything together this weekend to do this. I'll post the results when it complete.
Al
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There are several versions/combinations of leaf springs used in YJ's.. Depending on engine, hard top vs soft top.
My 95 4 cyl with hard-top had 4 leaf front packs and 5 leaf rear,
When I ordered my springs I ordered 4 rear packs, because I had added a winch and bumper..
Rode fairly level. I'm now looking at new springs after 75K or so cause the front ones sagged (Second set.. first set made about 75K as well )
Dave
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I got the springs of the bastard pack yesterday. I ended up getting them out of a mid 90's s10 blazer, no Yj springs were available. Paid $45 for everything. I'll post pictures and results when I get to bud them.
Al
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I'm going to try to get the Bastard pack done this weekend. I have to do the wife's brakes in the morning, then I'll get started. I'll post before and after pictures and ride results when I'm finish.
Al
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Ok I didn't get any pictures before I got started due to the weather and a crowded shop. I finished the front but I ran into a few problems. All of the spring hanger bolts froze up as were the u bolts. I got the hanger bolts freed up and out but had to use the torch on the u bolts. I finally found replacement u bolts after about 2 hours of looking. The re assembly went without a hitch. I used the Main spring from the s10 springs with the eyes cut off, this lifted the front a total of 2 1/2 inches which set the Jeep about a 1/2 inch high in the front but the ride is sooo much better. I am going to try to get the rear done tomorrow and will post picture after.
Al
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Cool, keep us posted :dance:
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So you added the S10 leaf to the original factory spring pack? Or a aftermarket?
Thanks
Dave
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I added an S10 leafs to the stock Yj springs. I added the main leaf from the s10 to the front. I used large chop saw and cut the eyes off the s10 spring. The line up pin on the s10 spring is offset so more will be cut off one side than the other, I cut the eyes off at 21 1/2 " from the center hole, this left about an inch from the eyes on the yj springs. I used grade 8 bolts and ground the heads round to make new line up bolts, they will need to be 2" long and a washer installed to keep them from pulling through the s10 spring since the hole is bigger. I needed longer u bolts for the front, believe it or not O Riley's had them. Be sure to tighten them evenly and add grease to all the spring hanger bolts. The best way I found to open an close the clamps was by heating them with a torch. For the rear I used the second s10 spring an only cut 2" off the end with the clamp. I finished the rear today and it rides a drives like a different jeep. I have taken the track bars off yet bit I was told it improve it even more. I gained an 1 1/2 in the rear. I like the stance.
Al
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Looks good
I'm totally lost on this one (I don't get it):
I used grade 8 bolts and ground the heads round to make new line up bolts, they will need to be 2" long and a washer installed to keep them from pulling through the s10 spring since the hole is bigger.
isn't the S10 spring leaf sandwiched between the stock leafs? and where would you use the washer (if it's on top it wont let the perches seat properly). Maybe you can explain - been trying to visualize it but didn't come up with anything.
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Looks great. Consider installing TJ fender flares for even more tire clearance.
I ran bastard packs and TJ flares with 31" tires for years on my YJ, before upgrading to SOA.
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The S10 spring installs on top of the existing springs similar to an add a leaf. The hole in the S10 spring is bigger, I used 3 washers on each spring that fit inside the hole basically as a shim and to keep it high enough to use as a line up pin.
Al
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The S10 spring installs on top of the existing springs similar to an add a leaf. The hole in the S10 spring is bigger, I used 3 washers on each spring that fit inside the hole basically as a shim and to keep it high enough to use as a line up pin.
Al
I thought add-a-leaf goes in between - so right now if i understand this correctly the extra leaf pulls on the clamps go give you the extra lift?
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Yes that's the way I have them. I guess I had a brain fart when I installed them. I'll pull them back out and change them around. Thanks for pointing it out to me.
Al
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I would have left the clamps open. If you're careful you can get them to stand straight like a U, This will keep the pack from fanning out but still allow thw pack to have full movement. If you're afraid of pulling a leaf far enough to come out you could always drill two holes though the clamp and put a bolt though it. Or if you want to clamp them make sure there is a leafs width worth of gap before you bend the tabs over. You don't want the clamp to be pinning all the leafs together. I'd also consider tapering the ends of the leafs if you haven't done it already. This will help allow them to flex a little better. Also make sure you paint the leafs while they're apart. You don't want them rusting together. Oh and instead of rounding out a hex head bolt you'll want to use an Allen head.
(http://image.fourwheeler.com/f/9340928+w600+re0/p25853_image_large.jpg)(http://image.fourwheeler.com/f/9340934+w600+re0/p25859_image_large.jpg)
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Yes that's the way I have them. I guess I had a brain fart when I installed them. I'll pull them back out and change them around. Thanks for pointing it out to me.
Al
cool - thanks for the update, at least i wasn't imagining things :lol:
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You can run an extra leaf on top of the main leaf, it will help reduce axle-wrap without making the ride more stiff.