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General Forums => The Mess Hall => Topic started by: DanMarino on May 16, 2014, 07:10:13 PM
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I did some driving around with the doors off and noticed a clicking noise that seemed coming from the driver, front area.
The clicking or thumping slows down and speeds up with the speed of the vehicle.
I mostly noticed it when coasting in neutral, but the clicking does happen when in gear.
I jacked the car up and looked around. Here's what I did.
1. Pulled and pushed on both front wheels and didn't get any movement. Lug nuts were tight. Wheel bearings/hubs seemed tight. No play observed in tie rods or steering stuff.
2. Greased all the front grease points while I was messing around in there.
3. Rotated the front drive shaft that goes from the transfer case to the front differential. This seemed to make the clicking noise. I pushed and pulled on the u joints for the front drive shaft and they seemed fine. Definitely not worn like when my u joints went out on my old Volvo 240 station wagon.
4. I engaged the transfer case and the clicking noise was much louder when I rotated the front drive shaft.
Seemed like the clicking was coming from the transfer case. I took the jeep for a drive and the clicking is there. I notice it most when I am coasting in neutral and turning right. Don't seem to get it when coasting and turning left.
So what do you guys think the next step is, or what might need to be fixed?
I'm wondering what might be common things to check out as the source?
Thanks,
Tom
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take the d/s out, see if it does the noise without ity, if not put it in 4wd and if you get the noise is the tcase, if not the u-joints on the d/s (or maybe the CV joint if you have that in front)
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Taking the driveshat out should take 5 minutes tops. Also make sure the pinion yoke doesn't move around.
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OK I've never removed a drive shaft. What's the procedure? Do I need some special tool for the snap rings on the U joints?
I'm not sure what you mean about the pinion yoke moving around???
Thanks for the help guys.
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OK I've never removed a drive shaft. What's the procedure? Do I need some special tool for the snap rings on the U joints?
I'm not sure what you mean about the pinion yoke moving around???
Thanks for the help guys.
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You need a small ratchet, 1/4" drive. I forget what the size of the socket is but it's pretty small. The bolts only need around 18 lbs-ft to put on so they should be easy to remove.
Grab the pinion and shake it. It should not move. If you feel movement, your pinion nut is loose or worse.
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OK I took out those bolts and removed the metal cap things. How do I get the drive shaft out of the yoke? Looks like there are metal tabs on the yoke that keep the u joint in place.
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OK I took out those bolts and removed the metal cap things. How do I get the drive shaft out of the yoke? Looks like there are metal tabs on the yoke that keep the u joint in place.
put a screwdriver between the yoke and the center of the u-joint and pry it out (slide it behind the joint where the yoke has a radius in it, only way to do it anyway) or use a small pry bar, the u-joint cups stick to the yoke esp if you never had it out before
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Sometimes the driveshaft does want to come out of the yoke, other times it falls out when you loosen the caps. Make sure both straps are removed, then take a large screwdriver or small prybar and pry the U-joint out of the yoke. Be careful not to drop the caps as the roller bearings may fall out or pickup trash. If prying does not work, you may need to soak with penetrating oil for awhile and try again.
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The only thing holding that should be holding the driveshaft in is the driveshaft length. Collapse the shaft a little and it will pop right out. Since you have all the straps removed, be sure to catch it.
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Thanks everyone for your help. I'll work on it again this holiday weekend.
So how exactly do you deal with the front drive shaft u-joint that is closest to the transfer case? That skid plate is in the way.
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Lay on your side and reach up. You should be able to get a socket on it easily. Once the straps are off and the driveshaft loose, you walk the whole thing forward. Don't collapse the slip yoke on the shaft unless you want grease squirting out of the shaft.
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OK this morning I removed the front drive shaft. The u joints seem fine, but are probably original to the vehicle.
I drove the vehicle and it was still making the clunking/clicking noise. It is most noticeable when in neutral and coasting. If I turn the wheel to the right it is most noticeable, but it also makes the noise when coasting straight ahead.
I put the vehicle into 4 high and there was a bad grinding noise like gears grinding. Then it seemed to click into place and it drove fine. Didn't notice any clicking/clunking in 4 high. It never made that grinding noise before when shifting into 4 high.
So guys, where does this leave me?
Rear u joints?
Front wheel bearings/hub?
Front Differential?
I'm at a loss. I'm thinking I might as well put new u joints in while the drive shaft is out.
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Wanted to add that when I turn the yoke at the front differential and rotate it there is a clicking/clunking noise inside. The yoke rotates about 1/8 of an inch.
When I rotate the yoke at the transfer case the clunk/click seems louder. It also rotates about 1/8 inch. Both yokes seem tight, except for the rotational movement.
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So you can get the sound by spinning the yokes by hand? Is the transfer case in 2wd?
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Hi Jeffy and guys.
OK here's the best way I can describe it. Unfortunately, I am deaf in one ear so locating where noises are coming from is impossible for me.
The transfer case is in 2 H. The yoke on the front differential can spin freely in either direction. If I rotate the yoke back and forth changing direction there seems to be some play or slop in the gears. When the direction changes when I spin it left and right, there is a clunking when the direction changes.
The yoke on the transfer case spins freely in either direction. If I rotate is back and forth changing direction it also seems to have some play in the gears and there is a clunk when the direction changes.
So is that normal, or an indication of something wrong?
Thanks,
Tom
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Just drove the jeep and it only makes the noise when it is rolling.
Is there anything up front besides the wheel hub that could be bad?
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Hi Jeffy and guys.
OK here's the best way I can describe it. Unfortunately, I am deaf in one ear so locating where noises are coming from is impossible for me.
The transfer case is in 2 H. The yoke on the front differential can spin freely in either direction. If I rotate the yoke back and forth changing direction there seems to be some play or slop in the gears. When the direction changes when I spin it left and right, there is a clunking when the direction changes.
The yoke on the transfer case spins freely in either direction. If I rotate is back and forth changing direction it also seems to have some play in the gears and there is a clunk when the direction changes.
So is that normal, or an indication of something wrong?
Thanks,
Tom
If you're in 2WD then the front yoke on the transfer case will not turn with the driveshaft off. Have you tried jacking the front end off the ground and giving the tires a good shake? There should be no play when you pull and push the tire. To clarify, you're not rotating the tire your seeing if there is any lateral play. You should be facing the tire and pushing and pulling at the sidewall of the tire. Also try spinning the tire my hand. Can you feel anything?
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Thanks again Jeffy for answering to my questions.
The very first thing I did to troubleshoot was:
I jacked the car up and looked around. I pulled and pushed on both front wheels and didn't get any movement. Lug nuts were tight. Wheel bearings/hubs seemed tight. No play observed in tie rods or steering stuff.
I spun the wheel and it sounded fine. I pushed and pulled at the 3PM and 9PM portions of the wheel to check for play. I pushed and pulled at the 12PM and 6PM portions of the wheel and checked. All seemed tight. Nothing seemed loose.
If a front Axle Shaft U joint was bad, I would have experienced play doing that test, right?
I guess I'll go ahead and get some new u joints for the front drive shaft since they are original to the car and the drive shaft is out.
I definitely notice the clunking noise most when I turn right at an intersection, or turn right onto my street. If I'm coasting and it is clunking it seems to get louder when I turn right. Not so loud when I turn left or am coasting straight ahead.
I'll look at the rear U joints again and pull that axle as a process of elimination, but the rear u joints all seem fine and tight when I shake, push, and pull on the rear drive shaft.
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From doing more reading, is it possible that the clicking could be coming from the front axle shift fork mechanism?
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When you push and pull on the wheels you're checking the wheel bearings mostly. I think you shoud have a passenger ride along and have them listen to see if it's coming from the front or rear. Though if it's coming from the rear you'd probably hear it through the floor as well. Checking the shift fork is easy though. 4 bolts and the cover comes off.
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I should mention you can pull the outer shaft without having to disassemble the whole spindle by taking the discs off then unbolting the wheel bearing from the knuckle. There are only 3 bolts and the while assembly will come out as on.
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I drove it today and it is getting to make more noise. As I pulled into the driveway on my way home from work the clunking was there, plus some louder popping noises. I'm about to head to the garage and take a peek.
Also, any idea what part number I should buy to replace the drive shaft u joints? Should I go with Spicer u joints? Looked like there are different part numbers for ABS vs. non-ABS vehicles for some reason. I have a 1994, non ABS, 4 banger, AX5 tranny.
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OK tonight I found a definite problem. I jerked around on the rear driveshaft and it was solid. Same with rear shocks, rear track bar, front track bar, and front shocks.
Jacked the driver side front wheel up and removed the front driver tire.
Found that my driving today made the driver front axle shaft u-joint even looser. Visible play and slop at the u-joint.
Thanks so much for everyone's help.
Now, how tough a job is it to replace the axle shaft u-joint? I'm about to watch a youtube tutorial. :)
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Like I said, unbolt the caliper and take the disc off. Then undo the three bolts on the backside of the knuckle that hold the wheel bearing on. I think they're 15mm. Once those are off the whole spindle will come out. Then you can work on it on a bench. A U-joint press or a large vice is helpful. Though I've used the two socket method as well.
I'd go ahead and do both sides for piece of mind. Those are non-serviceable U-joints on there and they're the same age so unless you want to do it again, probably soon, change them both out. Also, what year is your Jeep. Depending on the year they're either 5-260x or 5-297x. If they're 5-297 then you'll want to get 5-760x since Spicer has discontinued the 297. The 760 is around 20% stronger as well. If you have a pre-94 then you probably have 260's and there's no upgrade.
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edit: deleted my post as it is irrelevant - you already found the problem and i was answering something 10 posts back. Glad you got to the bottom of it.
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I have a 1994 YJ so the correct u joint is 5-760x?
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I have a 1994 YJ so the correct u joint is 5-760x?
I think they're 297's but measure the caps first. (260x) 1.06" OD Cap dia. vs (297x) 1.18" OD Cap dia.
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Thanks for all the help, rolling great now with both front axle shaft u joints replaced.