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General Forums => The Mess Hall => Topic started by: grumpygy on June 24, 2015, 06:17:39 AM

Title: Problem with the Jeep
Post by: grumpygy on June 24, 2015, 06:17:39 AM
  Looking for Ideas on where to look.  Alt went out so bad it blew the two 50A fuses for the Alt.  Bit it still ran on the Battery got me home.  I changed out the Alt, It fired up and seemed to run good.  The next day I get in it fire it up still seems to be running good, release the parking brake engine dies.  Will not refire and get a strong smell of gas like its flooded.

  That night is when I found the fuses bad.  I replaced the fuses and for safety the relay for the fuel pump.  Now all I get is it will fire once after I have not tried to start it in a while  but will not run longer than a few seconds.

So any Ideas.
Title: Re: Problem with the Jeep
Post by: grumpygy on June 24, 2015, 09:40:35 AM
Ok did nothing new but tried to start it in the Morning.  Started and  ran great for a couple of minutes.  Then I Idle it started to lope then shut down.  Was able to refire it and long as i kept it revved up it ran, but try to let it idle and it shut down.

  Another note the first night I had it running it backfire thru the intake with the engine revved but kept running.  Wonder if I may have done some damage as it was a bad backfire.

  Now notice  a whistle but I do have a cold air intake.  but thought when I put this new one on it had stopped.
Title: Re: Problem with the Jeep
Post by: neale_rs on June 24, 2015, 11:14:54 AM
Maybe the idle air controller is not working correctly.
Title: Re: Problem with the Jeep
Post by: Jeffy on June 24, 2015, 02:04:34 PM
First thing I'd do is check for codes.  If it's running that rough there should be some codes stored.  What voltage is the alternator putting out at idle?  What's the voltage at the battery with the engine off?

Backfiring is usually a timing issue. Though a bad battery can also cause a lot of weird problems.

I don't know about it being the IAC.  When that's not connected the engine won't want to start unless you're on the throttle.  Once it warms up it should then idle.
Title: Re: Problem with the Jeep
Post by: neale_rs on June 24, 2015, 04:23:09 PM
Like they say:  Check the last thing that was fixed.  It actually turns out that way pretty often.
Title: Re: Problem with the Jeep
Post by: grumpygy on June 24, 2015, 04:39:43 PM
Like they say:  Check the last thing that was fixed.  It actually turns out that way pretty often.

Did that last night,

Voltage this morning was showing close to 14v at idle.  I just put in a 170A alt.  New battery.  Thinking I bumped something.  The backfire was just on time.  When its warm(not the jeep just warm day jeep was cold) like in the Afternoon I get just a brief run 15- 20 sec and it shuts down and will not refire.

  I'll try to look it over tonight again, but with work may not get to it till Friday.
Title: Re: Problem with the Jeep
Post by: grumpygy on June 24, 2015, 07:43:43 PM
Ran about 30 second and shut down like the key was turned off.
Title: Re: Problem with the Jeep
Post by: Jeffy on June 24, 2015, 08:05:02 PM
I'm wondering if you hosed the fuel pump and that's triggering the auto shut-off or else it's just running out of gas.
Title: Re: Problem with the Jeep
Post by: grumpygy on June 24, 2015, 08:40:53 PM
I'm wondering if you hosed the fuel pump and that's triggering the auto shut-off or else it's just running out of gas.

Have not heard the pump running.  For sure tank is full.
Title: Re: Problem with the Jeep
Post by: Jeffy on June 25, 2015, 12:10:34 AM
Have not heard the pump running.  For sure tank is full.
When I mean out of gas I mean the pump isn't pumping.
Title: Re: Problem with the Jeep
Post by: grumpygy on June 26, 2015, 08:20:41 AM
Will try today to replace fuel filter.  Jeep had not been fuel in a long while and just the day before this started I filled it up.  Filter on there is also really old.

So at the filter what should my Fuel pressure be.  Be easy to hook up right after I pull the old filter.


  Also if I turn on the key but do not start it should I not be able to hear the pump running.
Title: Re: Problem with the Jeep
Post by: neale_rs on June 26, 2015, 11:37:57 AM
When you turn the key but not so far as to crank, you should be able to hear the pump run for a short while. If it is not doing this, it could be what Jeffy said about the ASR relay shutting everything down (and the cause of this would still be unknown).

Title: Re: Problem with the Jeep
Post by: Jeffy on June 26, 2015, 01:50:35 PM
Will try today to replace fuel filter.  Jeep had not been fuel in a long while and just the day before this started I filled it up.  Filter on there is also really old.

So at the filter what should my Fuel pressure be.  Be easy to hook up right after I pull the old filter.


  Also if I turn on the key but do not start it should I not be able to hear the pump running.
If you have a bunch of sediment in the tank it's going to get caught up on the pickup sock filter.  Pressure should be around 100 PSI, IIRC.  I'm wondering if there might be something wrong with the fuel pump since you did blow the fuse.
Title: Re: Problem with the Jeep
Post by: grumpygy on June 26, 2015, 05:23:04 PM
I did not blow the Fuel pump fuse just the two 50A alt fuses.  I did replace the fuel pump relay  but that was a just in case move and it was cheap.


I do not hear the fuel pump run when I turn the key.
Title: Re: Problem with the Jeep
Post by: grumpygy on June 28, 2015, 09:55:50 AM
Well checked for codes there are none.  Really think its the auto shut down, but how to know for sure.
Title: Re: Problem with the Jeep
Post by: grumpygy on June 28, 2015, 10:30:07 AM
Think I have good fuel pressure as it blows my gage off the line.  Will see about a new gage with better fitting this after noon.
Title: Re: Problem with the Jeep
Post by: grumpygy on June 28, 2015, 12:32:28 PM
 :brick:  Ok another question this time about codes if the auto shut down is kicking is would that not stop the codes.  Meaning without the ECU none would show.
Title: Re: Problem with the Jeep
Post by: grumpygy on June 28, 2015, 01:51:02 PM
At the check point on the inj manifold I have right at 38  but only with a brief run time and the  engine then shuts down.  Vac line was still hooked up   and I'm running the Hesco adjustable fuel pressure regulator.
Title: Re: Problem with the Jeep
Post by: Jeffy on June 28, 2015, 11:22:47 PM
So does the engine start the first time when it does start?  You mentioned releasing teh parking break and it going rough but does releasing teh break actually do anything?  How long does it take before the idle goes rough?  Have you tried disconnecting the TPS and IAS seoerately to see if there are any changes?

So, you're not getting any codes at all?  You should be getting a 12, 33 and 55 at minimum.

If you think it's the ASR then you might check this: http://www.allpar.com/fix/codes/sensors/auto-shutdown.html
Title: Re: Problem with the Jeep
Post by: grumpygy on June 29, 2015, 05:32:59 PM
The engine will start  and only run a few seconds then shut down.   

When I released the parking brake when this all started the engine shut down not run rough just shut down like the key was turned off and did not restart till that night when I got back home but onluy for a few seconds.

If I turn the key to run and do not try to start the you can hear the auto shut down kick in.

If I try to get the coded by turning on and off the key the check engine light never comes on.  never flashes anything.  But does work when 1st turning on the key so the bulb is good.


I read today one of the grounds is hooked to a mounting bolt for the emergency brake.  May look at that tonight.   It now does not run long enough for me to release the brake and see what it does.
Title: Re: Problem with the Jeep
Post by: grumpygy on June 29, 2015, 07:56:38 PM
Ok got a code reader and had 3 codes

33 which I knew about.

42 ASD relay voltage

47 Charging output low
Title: Re: Problem with the Jeep
Post by: Jeffy on June 29, 2015, 09:03:13 PM
So the ASD is reading low voltage and it's triggering the ASD relay.  You should be able to check the voltages with a multi-meter.
Title: Re: Problem with the Jeep
Post by: grumpygy on June 30, 2015, 03:06:59 PM
So the ASD is reading low voltage and it's triggering the ASD relay.  You should be able to check the voltages with a multi-meter.

But what does that tell me.   Everything I read points to fuel pump.  Which I will have today.
Title: Re: Problem with the Jeep
Post by: Jeffy on June 30, 2015, 04:08:08 PM
That would have told you if the problem was with the fuel pump or the ASD relay.
Title: Re: Problem with the Jeep
Post by: grumpygy on June 30, 2015, 04:56:26 PM
The relay seems to be working fin since it is tripping and shutting the engine down just like it should.  I did order another relay when I ordered my fuel pump that will be waiting on me when I get home.


I thought it was low voltage being fed to the relay that caused it to trip.
Title: Re: Problem with the Jeep
Post by: Jeffy on June 30, 2015, 05:18:52 PM
Low Voltage or Intermittent Voltage...
Title: Re: Problem with the Jeep
Post by: sharpxmen on July 04, 2015, 03:49:48 AM
alternator going bad would not blow your fuses, as an example a dead battery and a high output alternator (>100Amp) would (assuming both  fuses were fine or in place when it happened and not just one 50Amp fuse).
Title: Re: Problem with the Jeep
Post by: grumpygy on July 04, 2015, 07:44:36 AM
alternator going bad would not blow your fuses, as an example a dead battery and a high output alternator (>100Amp) would (assuming both  fuses were fine or in place when it happened and not just one 50Amp fuse).

I did have another High output Alt on it and the Battery was dead.  So that would have blown those fuses.  Now this alt was starting to go think the bearings were shot.  So it was good I changed it.


   I did notice yesterday that my Check Engine light is not working, so I was wrong before when I said it was.   Hopefully today I will change the Bulb.  Been hot here and working on it is more than I want to do.
Title: Re: Problem with the Jeep
Post by: grumpygy on July 04, 2015, 03:15:41 PM
Only got so far as to find the Check engine light needs a new bulb, So will pick up a bunch of those and dash light since I have that all out.

  Did get it running long enough to check voltage at the battery with it running 14.7.


I also have an old alarm system in it I no longer use, could that trip the auto shut down relay.  I seem to remember a while ago having problems with it.  I no longer even have a key fob to activate it.  The alarm would come on at odd time pissed me off so bad I ripped the siren out of it. I have not been able to trace all the wires to remove the rest of it but may go out right now and try.
Title: Re: Problem with the Jeep
Post by: sharpxmen on July 04, 2015, 09:06:04 PM
Only got so far as to find the Check engine light needs a new bulb, So will pick up a bunch of those and dash light since I have that all out.

  Did get it running long enough to check voltage at the battery with it running 14.7.


I also have an old alarm system in it I no longer use, could that trip the auto shut down relay.  I seem to remember a while ago having problems with it.  I no longer even have a key fob to activate it.  The alarm would come on at odd time pissed me off so bad I ripped the siren out of it. I have not been able to trace all the wires to remove the rest of it but may go out right now and try.
if it has the "immobilizer" feature hooked up then yes, but it doesn't explain why is starting first.

I wonder if it's either a crank or cam sensor (the latter would be more likely based on what you describe), the codes should tell you if that's the case.
Title: Re: Problem with the Jeep
Post by: grumpygy on July 04, 2015, 09:09:57 PM
Same 3 codes today.

Quote
Ok got a code reader and had 3 codes

33 which I knew about.

42 ASD relay voltage

47 Charging output low
Title: Re: Problem with the Jeep
Post by: grumpygy on July 11, 2015, 04:32:17 PM
Replaced all the bad bulbs and alarm system removed.


Its been running 1/2 so far and working great. :brick:

Didn't really do anything.

Came in to get the code reader and see if anything new shows up.

Now I really don't trust it to drive.
Title: Re: Problem with the Jeep
Post by: grumpygy on July 11, 2015, 04:52:46 PM
Glad I did not go for a drive, problem is back.  same codes as before.
Title: Re: Problem with the Jeep
Post by: grumpygy on July 11, 2015, 05:01:23 PM
The code 47, what could be the problem with that.  I'm at a loss with 14.7 at the battery where is it testing this voltage that its low.
Title: Re: Problem with the Jeep
Post by: grumpygy on July 12, 2015, 05:24:41 PM
Ok pulled ecu and cleaned all connections left it unhooked for a couple of hours and left the Negative battery cable off too.

Codes cleared except 33 which never leaves.

  Still runs for a very short time then dies.  this time acting like fuel  lopes a couple of times and dies.  Did not have fuel pressure gauge hooked up will hook one up and try it again.  But why no codes.
Title: Re: Problem with the Jeep
Post by: bootguy on July 13, 2015, 10:39:45 PM
The code 33 is "AC clutch relay" but see if this works.

1. Turn the key to the on position as you said the check engine light does not come on.
2. Wait anywhere from 1 to 5 mins and the ASD (Automatic Shut Down) and Fuel pump relay will start clicking.
3. After about a min of that you should then hear the TPS turn on and the check engine light will come on and the Jeep should start.
4. if this is the case find out where the ASD was and ensure that it is removed completely.
Title: Re: Problem with the Jeep
Post by: grumpygy on July 14, 2015, 06:31:15 AM
Check eng light is work as it should now.  Bulb was bad.  Light comes on as soon as I turn the key.



Why should I remove the ASD will that not stop the jeep.



Also may have found my problem.   Fuel Pump, when I turn the key on I do not get much pressure maybe 10 PSI.  Takes several on off of the key to just get it up to 30.  Then if I start the jeep it will run for a short time and slowly lose pressure.  So the pump seems to be not working right.

  I do have the HESCO Fuel pressure Regulator in it so it should be higher than that.
Title: Re: Problem with the Jeep
Post by: Jeffy on July 14, 2015, 07:20:26 PM
Check eng light is work as it should now.  Bulb was bad.  Light comes on as soon as I turn the key.



Why should I remove the ASD will that not stop the jeep.



Also may have found my problem.   Fuel Pump, when I turn the key on I do not get much pressure maybe 10 PSI.  Takes several on off of the key to just get it up to 30.  Then if I start the jeep it will run for a short time and slowly lose pressure.  So the pump seems to be not working right.

  I do have the HESCO Fuel pressure Regulator in it so it should be higher than that.
So you were wrong when you tried measuring the pressure before?
Title: Re: Problem with the Jeep
Post by: grumpygy on July 14, 2015, 09:10:55 PM
Must have been.


  Got one more question and a check.  Remember reading you could pull one relay ASD or fuel pump and bypass them to make sure it is the pump.  This would have the pump working all the time so its not a fix just a test.  Know which one and  where to put the 12v.
Title: Re: Problem with the Jeep
Post by: Jeffy on July 15, 2015, 01:17:33 PM
It's in the link from Page 2.
Title: Re: Problem with the Jeep
Post by: grumpygy on July 15, 2015, 05:33:52 PM
It's in the link from Page 2.

Thanks that's not the one I was thinking of.  Think I found it Pull the ASD and feed 12v to where pin 87 goes that should do the same thing.  I hope.