4bangerjp.com
General Forums => The Mess Hall => Topic started by: grumpygy on June 24, 2015, 06:17:39 AM
-
Looking for Ideas on where to look. Alt went out so bad it blew the two 50A fuses for the Alt. Bit it still ran on the Battery got me home. I changed out the Alt, It fired up and seemed to run good. The next day I get in it fire it up still seems to be running good, release the parking brake engine dies. Will not refire and get a strong smell of gas like its flooded.
That night is when I found the fuses bad. I replaced the fuses and for safety the relay for the fuel pump. Now all I get is it will fire once after I have not tried to start it in a while but will not run longer than a few seconds.
So any Ideas.
-
Ok did nothing new but tried to start it in the Morning. Started and ran great for a couple of minutes. Then I Idle it started to lope then shut down. Was able to refire it and long as i kept it revved up it ran, but try to let it idle and it shut down.
Another note the first night I had it running it backfire thru the intake with the engine revved but kept running. Wonder if I may have done some damage as it was a bad backfire.
Now notice a whistle but I do have a cold air intake. but thought when I put this new one on it had stopped.
-
Maybe the idle air controller is not working correctly.
-
First thing I'd do is check for codes. If it's running that rough there should be some codes stored. What voltage is the alternator putting out at idle? What's the voltage at the battery with the engine off?
Backfiring is usually a timing issue. Though a bad battery can also cause a lot of weird problems.
I don't know about it being the IAC. When that's not connected the engine won't want to start unless you're on the throttle. Once it warms up it should then idle.
-
Like they say: Check the last thing that was fixed. It actually turns out that way pretty often.
-
Like they say: Check the last thing that was fixed. It actually turns out that way pretty often.
Did that last night,
Voltage this morning was showing close to 14v at idle. I just put in a 170A alt. New battery. Thinking I bumped something. The backfire was just on time. When its warm(not the jeep just warm day jeep was cold) like in the Afternoon I get just a brief run 15- 20 sec and it shuts down and will not refire.
I'll try to look it over tonight again, but with work may not get to it till Friday.
-
Ran about 30 second and shut down like the key was turned off.
-
I'm wondering if you hosed the fuel pump and that's triggering the auto shut-off or else it's just running out of gas.
-
I'm wondering if you hosed the fuel pump and that's triggering the auto shut-off or else it's just running out of gas.
Have not heard the pump running. For sure tank is full.
-
Have not heard the pump running. For sure tank is full.
When I mean out of gas I mean the pump isn't pumping.
-
Will try today to replace fuel filter. Jeep had not been fuel in a long while and just the day before this started I filled it up. Filter on there is also really old.
So at the filter what should my Fuel pressure be. Be easy to hook up right after I pull the old filter.
Also if I turn on the key but do not start it should I not be able to hear the pump running.
-
When you turn the key but not so far as to crank, you should be able to hear the pump run for a short while. If it is not doing this, it could be what Jeffy said about the ASR relay shutting everything down (and the cause of this would still be unknown).
-
Will try today to replace fuel filter. Jeep had not been fuel in a long while and just the day before this started I filled it up. Filter on there is also really old.
So at the filter what should my Fuel pressure be. Be easy to hook up right after I pull the old filter.
Also if I turn on the key but do not start it should I not be able to hear the pump running.
If you have a bunch of sediment in the tank it's going to get caught up on the pickup sock filter. Pressure should be around 100 PSI, IIRC. I'm wondering if there might be something wrong with the fuel pump since you did blow the fuse.
-
I did not blow the Fuel pump fuse just the two 50A alt fuses. I did replace the fuel pump relay but that was a just in case move and it was cheap.
I do not hear the fuel pump run when I turn the key.
-
Well checked for codes there are none. Really think its the auto shut down, but how to know for sure.
-
Think I have good fuel pressure as it blows my gage off the line. Will see about a new gage with better fitting this after noon.
-
:brick: Ok another question this time about codes if the auto shut down is kicking is would that not stop the codes. Meaning without the ECU none would show.
-
At the check point on the inj manifold I have right at 38 but only with a brief run time and the engine then shuts down. Vac line was still hooked up and I'm running the Hesco adjustable fuel pressure regulator.
-
So does the engine start the first time when it does start? You mentioned releasing teh parking break and it going rough but does releasing teh break actually do anything? How long does it take before the idle goes rough? Have you tried disconnecting the TPS and IAS seoerately to see if there are any changes?
So, you're not getting any codes at all? You should be getting a 12, 33 and 55 at minimum.
If you think it's the ASR then you might check this: http://www.allpar.com/fix/codes/sensors/auto-shutdown.html
-
The engine will start and only run a few seconds then shut down.
When I released the parking brake when this all started the engine shut down not run rough just shut down like the key was turned off and did not restart till that night when I got back home but onluy for a few seconds.
If I turn the key to run and do not try to start the you can hear the auto shut down kick in.
If I try to get the coded by turning on and off the key the check engine light never comes on. never flashes anything. But does work when 1st turning on the key so the bulb is good.
I read today one of the grounds is hooked to a mounting bolt for the emergency brake. May look at that tonight. It now does not run long enough for me to release the brake and see what it does.
-
Ok got a code reader and had 3 codes
33 which I knew about.
42 ASD relay voltage
47 Charging output low
-
So the ASD is reading low voltage and it's triggering the ASD relay. You should be able to check the voltages with a multi-meter.
-
So the ASD is reading low voltage and it's triggering the ASD relay. You should be able to check the voltages with a multi-meter.
But what does that tell me. Everything I read points to fuel pump. Which I will have today.
-
That would have told you if the problem was with the fuel pump or the ASD relay.
-
The relay seems to be working fin since it is tripping and shutting the engine down just like it should. I did order another relay when I ordered my fuel pump that will be waiting on me when I get home.
I thought it was low voltage being fed to the relay that caused it to trip.
-
Low Voltage or Intermittent Voltage...
-
alternator going bad would not blow your fuses, as an example a dead battery and a high output alternator (>100Amp) would (assuming both fuses were fine or in place when it happened and not just one 50Amp fuse).
-
alternator going bad would not blow your fuses, as an example a dead battery and a high output alternator (>100Amp) would (assuming both fuses were fine or in place when it happened and not just one 50Amp fuse).
I did have another High output Alt on it and the Battery was dead. So that would have blown those fuses. Now this alt was starting to go think the bearings were shot. So it was good I changed it.
I did notice yesterday that my Check Engine light is not working, so I was wrong before when I said it was. Hopefully today I will change the Bulb. Been hot here and working on it is more than I want to do.
-
Only got so far as to find the Check engine light needs a new bulb, So will pick up a bunch of those and dash light since I have that all out.
Did get it running long enough to check voltage at the battery with it running 14.7.
I also have an old alarm system in it I no longer use, could that trip the auto shut down relay. I seem to remember a while ago having problems with it. I no longer even have a key fob to activate it. The alarm would come on at odd time pissed me off so bad I ripped the siren out of it. I have not been able to trace all the wires to remove the rest of it but may go out right now and try.
-
Only got so far as to find the Check engine light needs a new bulb, So will pick up a bunch of those and dash light since I have that all out.
Did get it running long enough to check voltage at the battery with it running 14.7.
I also have an old alarm system in it I no longer use, could that trip the auto shut down relay. I seem to remember a while ago having problems with it. I no longer even have a key fob to activate it. The alarm would come on at odd time pissed me off so bad I ripped the siren out of it. I have not been able to trace all the wires to remove the rest of it but may go out right now and try.
if it has the "immobilizer" feature hooked up then yes, but it doesn't explain why is starting first.
I wonder if it's either a crank or cam sensor (the latter would be more likely based on what you describe), the codes should tell you if that's the case.
-
Same 3 codes today.
Ok got a code reader and had 3 codes
33 which I knew about.
42 ASD relay voltage
47 Charging output low
-
Replaced all the bad bulbs and alarm system removed.
Its been running 1/2 so far and working great. :brick:
Didn't really do anything.
Came in to get the code reader and see if anything new shows up.
Now I really don't trust it to drive.
-
Glad I did not go for a drive, problem is back. same codes as before.
-
The code 47, what could be the problem with that. I'm at a loss with 14.7 at the battery where is it testing this voltage that its low.
-
Ok pulled ecu and cleaned all connections left it unhooked for a couple of hours and left the Negative battery cable off too.
Codes cleared except 33 which never leaves.
Still runs for a very short time then dies. this time acting like fuel lopes a couple of times and dies. Did not have fuel pressure gauge hooked up will hook one up and try it again. But why no codes.
-
The code 33 is "AC clutch relay" but see if this works.
1. Turn the key to the on position as you said the check engine light does not come on.
2. Wait anywhere from 1 to 5 mins and the ASD (Automatic Shut Down) and Fuel pump relay will start clicking.
3. After about a min of that you should then hear the TPS turn on and the check engine light will come on and the Jeep should start.
4. if this is the case find out where the ASD was and ensure that it is removed completely.
-
Check eng light is work as it should now. Bulb was bad. Light comes on as soon as I turn the key.
Why should I remove the ASD will that not stop the jeep.
Also may have found my problem. Fuel Pump, when I turn the key on I do not get much pressure maybe 10 PSI. Takes several on off of the key to just get it up to 30. Then if I start the jeep it will run for a short time and slowly lose pressure. So the pump seems to be not working right.
I do have the HESCO Fuel pressure Regulator in it so it should be higher than that.
-
Check eng light is work as it should now. Bulb was bad. Light comes on as soon as I turn the key.
Why should I remove the ASD will that not stop the jeep.
Also may have found my problem. Fuel Pump, when I turn the key on I do not get much pressure maybe 10 PSI. Takes several on off of the key to just get it up to 30. Then if I start the jeep it will run for a short time and slowly lose pressure. So the pump seems to be not working right.
I do have the HESCO Fuel pressure Regulator in it so it should be higher than that.
So you were wrong when you tried measuring the pressure before?
-
Must have been.
Got one more question and a check. Remember reading you could pull one relay ASD or fuel pump and bypass them to make sure it is the pump. This would have the pump working all the time so its not a fix just a test. Know which one and where to put the 12v.
-
It's in the link from Page 2.
-
It's in the link from Page 2.
Thanks that's not the one I was thinking of. Think I found it Pull the ASD and feed 12v to where pin 87 goes that should do the same thing. I hope.