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General Forums => The Mess Hall => Topic started by: neale_rs on October 05, 2015, 04:53:48 PM
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Lately, my YJ has gotten harder to shift into first when at a stop and running. It shifts into all gears smoothly and easily with the engine off at a stop and when in motion with the engine running. I am thinking this means the throwout bearing or pilot bearing is no longer properly lubricated. Does this sound about right?
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Sounds normal for an older YJ with worn syncros. If it was the throw-out bearing you wouldn't be able to shift into any gear without rev matching. You can shift from send into the neutral position and hold it there for a fraction of a second and then it should shift into first. You can also shift it into first till it doesn't want to move then let it back and then try again. It should go in. First gear from a stop sometimes just need a firm shove. Keep in mind that there is a 1st gear lockout pin to prevent you from shifting into 1st from 2nd. There are tricks to get around it though. I'd also probably recommend changing the fluid but that doesn't always seam to help. Mine's notchy as they say.
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Thanks. It's still not so bad that it would be a must fix. I'll wait and see how it behaves for a while and then decide what to do.
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sounds more like it doesn't disengage properly (clutch), is it better if you pump the clutch pedal a few times? if yes might want to look at the master/slave/fluid for the clutch hydraulics, if not could be a pressure plate issue.
try what Jeff said with shifting in 2nd and then move to 1st, if that works better could be a syncro but 1st is actually not as common with this problem as 2nd and 3rd as far as I know.
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sounds more like it doesn't disengage properly (clutch), is it better if you pump the clutch pedal a few times? if yes might want to look at the master/slave/fluid for the clutch hydraulics, if not could be a pressure plate issue.
try what Jeff said with shifting in 2nd and then move to 1st, if that works better could be a syncro but 1st is actually not as common with this problem as 2nd and 3rd as far as I know.
Thanks, I'll try pumping the clutch to see if it has an effect.
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Pumping the clutch does not seem to make a difference. I also tried putting it in low low and first gear to see if it would move forward with the clutch pedal pressed, but it did not move. So it seems the clutch is disengaging. So the most likely thing is the first gear synchro?
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I guess but if you're standing still with the clutch pressed it shouldn't be an issue (the syncro), many old trucks had no syncro on 1st for that matter as it was only used for getting moving from a standing start and not while rolling.
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I guess but if you're standing still with the clutch pressed it shouldn't be an issue (the syncro), many old trucks had no syncro on 1st for that matter as it was only used for getting moving from a standing start and not while rolling.
That is true. My father used to have a truck like that.
I still think it could be the pilot bearing or throwout bearing keeping the input of the transmission spinning. It is also almost never possible to get into reverse at a stop without a lot of grinding or shifting into other gears first to try to stop the input. Even after shifting into second or third, which should stop the input, as soon as I try to shift from those gears to reverse, it is almost always grinding again. And with the motor off, it shifts into 1st very easily.
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That is true. My father used to have a truck like that.
I still think it could be the pilot bearing or throwout bearing keeping the input of the transmission spinning. It is also almost never possible to get into reverse at a stop without a lot of grinding or shifting into other gears first to try to stop the input. Even after shifting into second or third, which should stop the input, as soon as I try to shift from those gears to reverse, it is almost always grinding again. And with the motor off, it shifts into 1st very easily.
If it's the throw out bearing then you'd have the same issue in all the gears. 1st and Reverse have stops. Really, you're supposed to shift into 1st them to reverse. Double clutching should also work.
Easy shifting with the engine off would suggest it's the syncros since they don't come into play.
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If it's the throw out bearing then you'd have the same issue in all the gears. 1st and Reverse have stops. Really, you're supposed to shift into 1st them to reverse. Double clutching should also work.
Easy shifting with the engine off would suggest it's the syncros since they don't come into play.
How are these stops supposed to work? Maybe my AX5 is missing something after the rebuild it had some years ago.
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How are these stops supposed to work? Maybe my AX5 is missing something after the rebuild it had some years ago.
I should clarify that. Reverse has a lock-out mechanism. To bypass it you need to shift into neutral. Meaning the shifter needs to be vertical, between 3rd and 4th. They used to tell you to shift into 1st to make sure you're not doing something stupid. 1st is notchy and can be finicky too boot. If it's too cold or too warm, you can lose 1st all together. It's a problem that plagued the AX-5 and AX-15. When it's in the low 40's, it can cause really hard shift till the transmission warms up. I used to always just shift into 2nd when that happened. I've also ahd really hard shift when it was really hot or at least humid. It wasn't like when it was cold and I was locked out of 1st completely but it was really difficult to shift. All the other gears were fine.
Some people have had luck with a fluid change to something synthetic. I've had mine taken to the dealer and they weren't able to find anything wrong. I haven't bothered to switch to any other fluid then what the factory put into it. I think of the AX-5 as an old school transmission that doesn't like being rushed. 1st can still be stiff but I haven't had it lock itself out in a very long time. If it's stiff, I'm usually automatically double-clutching to get it into gear. I think it's fault in the design. There were never any TSB's for the AX-5 or AX-15 for the shifting issues even though they were common place.
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Thanks. It sounds kind of like what is happening with my AX5 is fairly normal for its age. I'll just wait and see how it evolves.
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I forgot to mention, mine clunks when i shift into 1st from from a stop sometimes.
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That is true. My father used to have a truck like that.
I still think it could be the pilot bearing or throwout bearing keeping the input of the transmission spinning. It is also almost never possible to get into reverse at a stop without a lot of grinding or shifting into other gears first to try to stop the input. Even after shifting into second or third, which should stop the input, as soon as I try to shift from those gears to reverse, it is almost always grinding again. And with the motor off, it shifts into 1st very easily.
it's the pressure plate most likely, never seen a pilot bearing doing this, I mean if it was seized you wouldn't be able to shift at all.
I don't think the reverse has a syncro
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it's the pressure plate most likely, never seen a pilot bearing doing this, I mean if it was seized you wouldn't be able to shift at all.
I don't think the reverse has a syncro
Thanks. This will make me more likely to change the clutch as soon as it gives me any additional reason to do so (it's old, probably about time anyway).
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Look into Core/Hurst short throw shifter.......makes a load of difference.
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Thanks, I'll look into that option.
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it's the pressure plate most likely, never seen a pilot bearing doing this, I mean if it was seized you wouldn't be able to shift at all.
I don't think the reverse has a syncro
2x on no reverse syncro, that's why OP grinds going into reverse. That's also why you have to come to a complete stop before trying to shift into reverse.
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Thanks. I've driven lots of manual transmission cars and trucks, something is not quite right with my clutch or transmission, but I guess it is tolerable for a while.
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You know, mine was getting a bit hard to shift. When I did the tune up MANY years ago, I decided to change the tranny fluid. Based on recommendations from this site, I used Redline MT-90, and the problems magically went away. From what I have read here, I am not the only one this has happened to. Since then, I use MT-90 exclusively for the transmission. Might be worth a shot to try changing fluids...
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Thanks. I've been running Pennzoil Synchromesh which has worked well for a long time, but maybe is not enough at this point.
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I had this problem and it was solved when the clutch was changed.
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Thanks, it sounds right to me. And the clutch is old and does not engage 100% smoothly when cold, it might be good to change it in any case.
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The AX5 has some itty bitty needle bearings in the clusters that are very easy to damage... the stock ones have a cage, when mine was rebuilt the last time it got packed needles instead. and I use 20w50 synthetic motor oil. The re-builder also removed the bearing side shields so it could lubricate better. You'll find my story around here somewhere. 3 tranny's under warrantee , then a full rebuild on my dime at about 100K got to 229K on that last rebuild so far. I tried redline MT-90 once but it made the shifting notchy compared to the 20w50 oil. I change the motor oil in it about ever 3rd oil change.
FWIW the AX in a Toyota pickup in the late 80's came with 20w50 from teh factory and used the un-shrouded bearings stock.
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Thanks, that oil might be worth a try. But would it be risky without the other modifications they did when yours was rebuilt?
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Having the exact same problem with mine.... Will try changing the fluid first and hope that it helps.