4bangerjp.com
General Forums => The Mess Hall => Topic started by: TheClark on August 28, 2006, 09:29:55 PM
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I have a 98 TJ 4-banger auto. Right now everything is stock. I'm selling my Dodge, and I figure to have around $5k to spend on goodies for the Jeep.
First I'm plenty happy with the performance of the 4banger. I don't mind driving slow. I do know I want to run 33's and I want to have a 3-4" lift. After the tires and lift, I would like the performance of the Jeep to remain the same as it is now, so I know performance upgrades & gearing will be a must. I'm not concerned with gas mileage.
I would like to hear some opinions on what the more experienced guys would do to a stock Jeep if they had $5K to spend.
I am looking at the RE 3.5" lift or maybe the 4.5" lift with 3.5" springs. I already have a winch, so mounting it to the Jeep must be a consideration in the price.
I will be mostly running around in dirt, and mud. I probably won't do much wheeling on rock.
I am hoping to barder with a off-road shop for the installation, as I own a screenprinting and embroidery company, and they all want t-shirts!!
Thanks for the help!!!!
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I have a 98 TJ 4-banger auto. Right now everything is stock. I'm selling my Dodge, and I figure to have around $5k to spend on goodies for the Jeep.
First I'm plenty happy with the performance of the 4banger. I don't mind driving slow. I do know I want to run 33's and I want to have a 3-4" lift. After the tires and lift, I would like the performance of the Jeep to remain the same as it is now, so I know performance upgrades & gearing will be a must. I'm not concerned with gas mileage.
I would like to hear some opinions on what the more experienced guys would do to a stock Jeep if they had $5K to spend.
I am looking at the RE 3.5" lift or maybe the 4.5" lift with 3.5" springs. I already have a winch, so mounting it to the Jeep must be a consideration in the price.
I will be mostly running around in dirt, and mud. I probably won't do much wheeling on rock.
I am hoping to barder with a off-road shop for the installation, as I own a screenprinting and embroidery company, and they all want t-shirts!!
Thanks for the help!!!!
I'd probably spend some of that on Rubicon D44's fronts and rears. Get the pump with them so you can use the lockers. Then maybe regear them while you're at it. It won't lift your Jeep but you'll have pretty beafy drivetrain and could walk through more difficult stuff with a guy with lift and no lockers. Not to mention you get rid of that D35c too.
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I have a 98 TJ 4-banger auto. Right now everything is stock. I'm selling my Dodge, and I figure to have around $5k to spend on goodies for the Jeep.
First I'm plenty happy with the performance of the 4banger. I don't mind driving slow. I do know I want to run 33's and I want to have a 3-4" lift. After the tires and lift, I would like the performance of the Jeep to remain the same as it is now, so I know performance upgrades & gearing will be a must. I'm not concerned with gas mileage.
I would like to hear some opinions on what the more experienced guys would do to a stock Jeep if they had $5K to spend.
I am looking at the RE 3.5" lift or maybe the 4.5" lift with 3.5" springs. I already have a winch, so mounting it to the Jeep must be a consideration in the price.
I will be mostly running around in dirt, and mud. I probably won't do much wheeling on rock.
I am hoping to barder with a off-road shop for the installation, as I own a screenprinting and embroidery company, and they all want t-shirts!!
Thanks for the help!!!!
I'd probably spend some of that on Rubicon D44's fronts and rears. Get the pump with them so you can use the lockers. Then maybe regear them while you're at it. It won't lift your Jeep but you'll have pretty beafy drivetrain and could walk through more difficult stuff with a guy with lift and no lockers. Not to mention you get rid of that D35c too.
That will take up most of his dough though.....
IMO --
a 3" suspension lift and a 1" body lift (about $600-700 if DIY)
SYE and rear driveshaft conversion ($600 if DIY)
8.8 rear axle with 4.88's (disc brakes come with that...although I can't imagine they make much of a difference on a TJ)
4.88 gearing for the D30 up front
Just the wheels and tires are going to cost around $1,200 if you go with cheapo black steelies (my preference anyway).
Electric fan conversion (havn't done it yet, but everyone seems to agree it is a kick ass mod that gives you more power and nicer to have when going through water)
I have the suspension lift installed (3" 4WD Hardware), I have the 1" BL (just waiting until I get the Poison Spyder rails first so I can install at the same time) along with a 1" MML.
Still need the SYE...which I really want....THEN I will need to do the rear axle and the gearing...and THEN I will figure out a way to get 35's under there....uuuugggh :roll:
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That will take up most of his dough though.....
IMO --
a 3" suspension lift and a 1" body lift (about $600-700 if DIY)
SYE and rear driveshaft conversion ($600 if DIY)
8.8 rear axle with 4.88's (disc brakes come with that...although I can't imagine they make much of a difference on a TJ)
4.88 gearing for the D30 up front
Just the wheels and tires are going to cost around $1,200 if you go with cheapo black steelies (my preference anyway).
Electric fan conversion (havn't done it yet, but everyone seems to agree it is a kick ass mod that gives you more power and nicer to have when going through water)
I have the suspension lift installed (3" 4WD Hardware), I have the 1" BL (just waiting until I get the Poison Spyder rails first so I can install at the same time) along with a 1" MML.
Still need the SYE...which I really want....THEN I will need to do the rear axle and the gearing...and THEN I will figure out a way to get 35's under there....uuuugggh :roll:
You can find people selling Rubicon D44's paired up for around $3000-4000, that would still leave him $1000 for lift and or tires if he didn't want to regear right off the bat. The axles would be 100% Bolt on with no fabrication required.
Then again if you're into looks go with the lift and tires since no one will really see your axles.
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The best advice that was given to me, I will pass it on to you...
Start off small or even stock with good mud tires. Put the money in the bank. Research Play and more research. Once you get the knowledge from the research and get out there and wheel.... Then you will know what you need/want.
Then you will have the money to do the work, and with the research... you will be able to do the work your self and save big money and get more mods! I have done that and so far every thing I though I wanted/need went out the window.
Another thing is when your wheeling stock. you will be force to learn how to do things proper so you don't get stuck or break things, and also be closer to the ground and less tipsy... when you do get your lift you will be able to do bigger things with the know how and less likely to roll.
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Areas of concern:
- Get to know your TJ as it stands now. Add as little weight as possible. Keep the rpms near stock to get best street and offroad performance.
- Want an auto to keep the tires spinning in the mud and not studder like shifting gears with a manual. Add larger tranny cooler and change the stall speed of the converter via replacement.
- Wheels and tires. Keep them skinny and knobby if you want mud.
- Axle(s). 8.8 swap or better yet a complete matching front/rear swap. Look for a full floater rear axle. These would come stock in 1-ton applications and are hefty big. You could look for a semi float rear axle with a flanged axle shafts, ie 9" Ford. So tire size needs to work with the type of axles you get. Same for the wheels. Bigger axles means bigger brakes to handle the larger tires. May need to step up the master cylinder also.
- Gear/Locker. Mud requires tire speed. Deepest gear set to work with streetable manners is best. Lockers, cheap rear locker is the Millermatic where you weld the spider gears to the side gears. For the front, LR, Aussie, those which replace your carrier gears are cheap enough.
- Suspension. Matches axles. If keeping stock axles, you could use pieces of used aftermarket components to gain necessary lift and links. You could look at doing a coil arm front suspension with a leaf rear suspension. Leaf rear requires a traction bar.
- Safety. Bumper pull front and rear would be necessary. Full roll cage. Winch as mentioned and mount.
So, here is what I suggest as a plan -
Keep it light and near stock vehicle for easy part replacement. Replace rear axle with lug pattern matching axle (ie. disc'd 8.8), add YJ leaf rear suspension SOA, rear traction bar, keep short arm front, add coil spacer in front with taller coils to match rear height, adjustable front track bar, ZJ tie rods as they are larger than TJs, adjustable front lower control arms keeping uppers stock , matching shocks for lift, YJ front brake lines (3" longer than TJs), 1-2" body lift, motor mount lift, flat belly pan, front roll cage, better seats, remove rear seat, 35x10's on 16" rim with proper offset. SYE if necessary as it's not a requirement with the TJ if rear ds breaks. The tcase is not sealed by the rear ds. If you want more tire, trim the body to fit, add bump stops to protect full compression. Add properly mounted front and rear bumpers with tow/pull points. Gear it as necessary for tire height, lock it with leftover money. Get some 3-4" wide 20-30-50' straps. Get a winch kit. Practice winch safety.
There is a lot to weigh in to making a decision to fit what where and when. Gearing is necessary for taller tires, taller tires is usually the start and are not cheap, wheels add expense, then axles, suspension, driveline. There is a lot to consider when you want to build and build once. A lot of people try to pride themselves to building once, but some never start. When they do, they are surprised on the outcome of all that is involved.
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Areas of concern:
- Want an auto to keep the tires spinning in the mud and not studder like shifting gears with a manual. Add larger tranny cooler and change the stall speed of the converter via replacement.
- Wheels and tires. Keep them skinny and knobby if you want mud.
I disagree with the comment about a manual in the mud. I wheel in some freakin thick muskeg and I know a lot of others that do with no problems, either tranny will work.
There are 2 theories with mud:
1. tall and skinny, so you cut through first and hopefully get down to better ground
2. tall and wider. There are not too many tall and skinny tires out there anymore, but if you like running serious mud, you need a set of swampers of some sort (boggers are best). Stay away from MTRs, they suck in mud.
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Stay away from MTRs, they suck in mud.
I Disagree with that one.
My MTR tires are extremely nice in the mud...
This kind of proves my point above...
Every one will tell you what they think you need and should get, but experience and knowledge will let you chose what would fit YOU best.
Get out there play. get to know some local jeep clubs.
Use what every one tells you what you need as ideas... and not must haves....They do know a lot of good stuff for them, but not for
Some of them you will need wile others you will want something a little different.
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I have been doing a ton of research, but I just wanted to get some second opinions.
My plan is to buy the RE 3.5" and get some 33 10.5 15 M/T's (I hate fat tires). I assume this will require a CV conversion, so I figures that in as wll. I figure I'm probably at around $2500-3000 for that. I don't want to do spacers, I want to redo the suspension. The Jeep has 90K miles on it, so its do anyway. On the regear I was thinking probably 4.56, so I wouldn't have to swap axles yet. I have heard there aren't 4.88's for the D35, but I could be mistaken. I was going to buy a cheap front and rear bumper to mount the winch, and have a receiver on the back. After that I'm kinda lost, I don't really want to get into an axle swap just yet. I was thinking of locking the rear with an ARB, but I;m not sure of the cost involved with that. Are the lockers interchangeable, meaning if I swap axles in a couple monthes, can I take the locker with me. I'm not new to wheeling, but I am new to wheeling jeeps. I've never had to worry about so much, just to put on some 33 inch tires. Oh well, you gotta spend your money something.
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I have been doing a ton of research, but I just wanted to get some second opinions.
My plan is to buy the RE 3.5" and get some 33 10.5 15 M/T's (I hate fat tires). I assume this will require a CV conversion, so I figures that in as wll. I figure I'm probably at around $2500-3000 for that. I don't want to do spacers, I want to redo the suspension. The Jeep has 90K miles on it, so its do anyway. On the regear I was thinking probably 4.56, so I wouldn't have to swap axles yet. I have heard there aren't 4.88's for the D35, but I could be mistaken. I was going to buy a cheap front and rear bumper to mount the winch, and have a receiver on the back. After that I'm kinda lost, I don't really want to get into an axle swap just yet. I was thinking of locking the rear with an ARB, but I;m not sure of the cost involved with that. Are the lockers interchangeable, meaning if I swap axles in a couple monthes, can I take the locker with me. I'm not new to wheeling, but I am new to wheeling jeeps. I've never had to worry about so much, just to put on some 33 inch tires. Oh well, you gotta spend your money something.
You can get the stock axles regeared to 4.88. Lockers are not interchangable. If you are planning on swapping axles later DO NOT spend anything on the stock axles. Nothing is interchangable and you will never recoupe the money spend on the stock axles. I mentioned Rubicon axles because they will boly right up with no problem. Rubicon owners tend to swap to larger axles so they become available for a decent price. Even if you won't be able to swing the suspension and tires, you'd be better off.
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Stay away from MTRs, they suck in mud.
I Disagree with that one.
My MTR tires are extremely nice in the mud...
I second that, I have no problems! :nod:
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I run the RE 3.5 great lift kit, has alot of flex. u dont need a SYE and it fits 33 nicely Everybody has a preference with tires, and i sometimes think people take too much focus on there tires instead of driving skills,you said you have 4wheeled before just use your favorite tire brand
I would fully recomend a full roll cage, there has been times ive wet myself when up on two wheels and noticed that the factory roll cage connects to the windshield :roll:
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I have been doing a ton of research, but I just wanted to get some second opinions.
My plan is to buy the RE 3.5" and get some 33 10.5 15 M/T's (I hate fat tires). I assume this will require a CV conversion, so I figures that in as wll. I figure I'm probably at around $2500-3000 for that. I don't want to do spacers, I want to redo the suspension. The Jeep has 90K miles on it, so its do anyway. On the regear I was thinking probably 4.56, so I wouldn't have to swap axles yet. I have heard there aren't 4.88's for the D35, but I could be mistaken. I was going to buy a cheap front and rear bumper to mount the winch, and have a receiver on the back. After that I'm kinda lost, I don't really want to get into an axle swap just yet. I was thinking of locking the rear with an ARB, but I;m not sure of the cost involved with that. Are the lockers interchangeable, meaning if I swap axles in a couple monthes, can I take the locker with me. I'm not new to wheeling, but I am new to wheeling jeeps. I've never had to worry about so much, just to put on some 33 inch tires. Oh well, you gotta spend your money something.
You can get the stock axles regeared to 4.88. Lockers are not interchangable. If you are planning on swapping axles later DO NOT spend anything on the stock axles. Nothing is interchangable and you will never recoupe the money spend on the stock axles. I mentioned Rubicon axles because they will boly right up with no problem. Rubicon owners tend to swap to larger axles so they become available for a decent price. Even if you won't be able to swing the suspension and tires, you'd be better off.
Jeffy has never lead me wrong!
He makes very good arguments and knows more about Jeeps than any one I have meet on line.(or in person for that mater).
If you Listen to any one.... Hes the man!
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Stay away from MTRs, they suck in mud.
I Disagree with that one.
My MTR tires are extremely nice in the mud...
I second that, I have no problems! :nod:
Up here in Alberta mud, they are terrible. They don't clean out and if you get on wet grass and a thin skim of mud, they are useless. For thinner, soupier mud, they are fine.
Like I said before, if you are serious about mud, go with a swamper.
I know a lot of people that I have wheeled with run the 3.5" RE kit on their TJs and they would really well. Another company to take a look at is Rockkrawler, their long-arm kits are awesome, so I am sure their short-arm kits should be just as good. As for the 3.5" and a SYE, you might be okay without. If you don't put one in right away, you will have to put a t-case drop in.
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Like I said before, if you are serious about mud, go with a swamper.
Relax buddy, I am not telling you that you are wrong, it's an opinion. What works for you may not work for me and vice versa. Personally I don't run swampers because they wear very quickly and I drive highway every day. They do tear ass in mud, but not very road freindly.
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just thought I would put my .02 in as well.
I would only go with a rear axle swap whether it is an 8.8 or dana 44 that is up to you. The dana 30 is a pretty solid axle. I am running 33x12.50s and have never had an issue with it.
I bought a used rear rubicon empty 44 housing on ebay for $200 (had drum brakes and axle bearings) I bought 4.88 gears, master install kit, ox locker, and stock shafts. I had it all installed at a local shop for $250. Overall I think it cost me around $1300 for the axle.
3.5 Inch lift (Rubicon express or Teraflex are my choices) $700-$800
Performance Off Road Center SYE $200
Woods rear Driveshaft $250
Skids (gas tank, Oil Pan) $200-400
Used 33 inch tires and wheels $300-600.
After all that you would still have money left to put in the bank. You can easily install your own SYE it is not that hard. I am by no means a mechanic and did it in about 3 hours on a saturday. I think this would give your jeep a good start and make it more "wheelable"
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How about invest a couple of thousand and have a local shop, junkyard take your Jeep apart and hold the individual parts for you. You then sell each individual part on Ebay -- axles, wheels/tires, engine/transmission, tub, doors, top, seats, etc. Will take some work, but you'll probably double the money you currently have in your TJ in about a month; depends on your endurance level, probably :lol: . Jeep parts sell like hotcakes on Ebay.
Then you reinvest in a used 2003 or 2004 TJ Rubicon Auto and a 4 inch RE lift and Wheels/Tires for about $18,000 total (You might, however, have a few thousand or so you have to finance or otherwise cover if making such a purchase). But, you may find the Rubicon to be a better TJ platform for a build-up. :pot:
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Like I said before, if you are serious about mud, go with a swamper.
Relax buddy, I am not telling you that you are wrong, it's an opinion. What works for you may not work for me and vice versa. Personally I don't run swampers because they wear very quickly and I drive highway every day. They do tear ass in mud, but not very road freindly.
:popcorn: :wall:
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Clark, keep watching those classifieds, you might find something with some of the work already done. here is sample from Autotrader today!
1997 TJ JEEP WRANGLER, 79k miles, airbags, abs, ps, tilt, Teraflex 4" lift, rear locker, Tera Low transfer case, Currie drive line, 4 cyl, header, intake, driver Air Bag, Anti-Lock Brakes, Compact Disc Player, Passenger Air Bag, Power Steering, Tilt Wheel; $7,500, 702-683-6400
1992 JEEP WRANGLER, front & rear Detroit lockers, rear Dana44, 4 to 1 Tera low, 488 gears, lift kit, call for more details, $8000, 714-863-2942
1995 JEEP WRANGLER, YJ, dana 44 front and rear axels with detriot lockers, lift kit, many extras, asking $8,000 obo, call for details, 951-529-2484
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How about invest a couple of thousand and have a local shop, junkyard take your Jeep apart and hold the individual parts for you. You then sell each individual part on Ebay -- axles, wheels/tires, engine/transmission, tub, doors, top, seats, etc. Will take some work, but you'll probably double the money you currently have in your TJ in about a month; depends on your endurance level, probably :lol: . Jeep parts sell like hotcakes on Ebay.
Then you reinvest in a used 2003 or 2004 TJ Rubicon Auto and a 4 inch RE lift and Wheels/Tires for about $18,000 total (You might, however, have a few thousand or so you have to finance or otherwise cover if making such a purchase). But, you may find the Rubicon to be a better TJ platform for a build-up. :pot:
Personally, I would rather start my build with a $6,000 jeep instead of an $18,000 jeep. I plan on dropping a bigger motor, V8 or Small diesel down the road (4-5 years, maybe sooner if I can make this engine blow while it still has the warranty:). I'll probably do axles and engine at the same time. Thanls for the input.
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just thought I would put my .02 in as well.
I would only go with a rear axle swap whether it is an 8.8 or dana 44 that is up to you. The dana 30 is a pretty solid axle. I am running 33x12.50s and have never had an issue with it.
I bought a used rear rubicon empty 44 housing on ebay for $200 (had drum brakes and axle bearings) I bought 4.88 gears, master install kit, ox locker, and stock shafts. I had it all installed at a local shop for $250. Overall I think it cost me around $1300 for the axle.
3.5 Inch lift (Rubicon express or Teraflex are my choices) $700-$800
Performance Off Road Center SYE $200
Woods rear Driveshaft $250
Skids (gas tank, Oil Pan) $200-400
Used 33 inch tires and wheels $300-600.
After all that you would still have money left to put in the bank. You can easily install your own SYE it is not that hard. I am by no means a mechanic and did it in about 3 hours on a saturday. I think this would give your jeep a good start and make it more "wheelable"
Good ideas....Thanks!!