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General Forums => The Mess Hall => Topic started by: Drummer Abe on November 04, 2006, 02:50:01 PM
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I have a '97 Wrangler that's developed a weird squeal at certain RPM ranges. It will squeal once at around 1800, quit, squeal again around 2100, quit, and again at 2500. It will do this in and out of gear, and is really annoying when going down the road. I've checked the belt, and it's fine. I also checked the intake manifold bolts, and they're all tight. Any ideas of what this could be? It does seem to be coming from the rear of the engine, if that helps....
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Have you checked out things like the alternator, idler pulleys? Maybe the throw out bearing?................... :D
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I have checked the idler and alternator, and it doesn't appear to be coming from them. I changed the water pump a couple of months ago, so I don't think that's the problem. To me, it sounds like it's coming from the driver's side of the engine, and towards the back / bottom.
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kinda sounds like a throught out bearing
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kinda sounds like a throught out bearing
YEP................ :!:
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Had a unknown squeal-type problem with my 94 YJ which went on for about 9 months starting at the beginning of 06. Was hugely and annoyingly noticeable at idle; exhaust noise may have masked it as revs climbed. But, urban driving in this Jeep was a nightmare until the problem was found last month.
Originally thought it was coming from the intake area, which, in the end, wasn't too far off. Looked at the 4.0 TB I had as the cause of the noise - no deal. Swapped out the Spacer for one with no swirly deal - nope. Decent Burbank, Ca. 4x shop spotted a bad fan clutch - that didn't fix the noise though. Finally picked up a Sear's mechanic's stethascope - but everything sounded great through it. The squeal noise :sad: persisted.
Only area I couldn't get to with the stethascope was the water pump area (due to squeal noise being an engine-operating thing, which made getting to the water pump with the stethascope, challenging). So, I upgraded the waterpump with a Flow-Kool - this didn't fix the squeal, but at least I got a better pump out of the unnecessary fix.
Anyway, when all was said and done, it took a team of 3 mechanics almost an hour to track the noise. Turns out it was due to a bad intake/exhaust manifold gasket. Apparently there was damage in the gasket at the underside of the intake manifold, which made tracking the damaged gasket area, visually, challenging. The mechanic that found it literally had to put weight on the intake - only then did the squeal noise change pitch - which tipped the guy off to the problem. In 20 years of owning cars, that intake squeal problem really "took-the-cake" in terms of giving me an engine problem I, or a lone mechanic, couldn't figure out in short order.
If you have a squeal, have checked out everything running off the accessory drive belt, no vacuum leaks anywhere, then get the intake/exhaust manifolds checked out and the gasket checked out too. That did it for me. Also take a look at TB area, especially if you've upgraded to a 4.0 or use a spacer - these areas are prone to cause noise too.
Have to mention that the intake/exahaust gasket and leaks/noise there weren't talked about much in any jeep-related google searches I did. Most of the suggestions there towards solving my squeal noise problem tended to run towards replacing the belt or accessories, the TB, the spacer etc.
Also, should mention that if you have a high mileage 2.5 (well-maintained or no) you are probably going to see this kind of wear on the gaskets, maybe more so if you are twisting o pounding your rig alot off-road.
Good luck :D
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I reread this post and what you wrote:
To me, it sounds like it's coming from the driver's side of the engine, and towards the back / bottom.
That's the intake/exhaust side of the engine. The underside/rear of the intake manifold was where my gasket leak was coming from - driver's side back of engine like you are saying.
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I have upgraded to the 4.0 TB / TB spacer / intake tube / and AEM filter, but I had the noise before then. As of now, I'm planning on taking it to a mechanic early this week to see if he can diagnose the problem, and then I may tackle the repair myself. The noise does appear to be coming out lower than the intake, but it may be on the bottom side of the intake, making it appear to be coming from the lower portion of the engine. It's been a while since my last clutch / tranny repair, so it will be interesting if it's the throw out bearing. One quick question - If it is the bearing, what kind of damage will it do if I drive it periodically on short trips before the repair?
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Well alot of determining the source of the problem is the actual sound of the noise itself. Don't know the noise - unless you want to use a mike and create some kind of audio or audio/video file we can all catch from a link on this site - so we are kind of giving the best guesses we can as to what's causing it.
(Personally, I think there is a future in remote auto-mechanic work for older cars, where an experienced, specialized mechanic directs the DIYer remotely and diagnoses engine problems remotely using an audio/video link of some kind, say the latest in digital cellular or standard broadband. Course, newer ON-Star equipped cars already have a self-diagnosis mechanism that reports any problems to owners on a monthly basis)
For your Jeep, I'm thinking its the intake/exhaust gasket/manifolds or what the other guys are suggesting - bearing.
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Try a stethoscope to isolate the noise. My throughout bearing makes noise at idle until it goes into gear. It is a rattling noise.
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Well, I took it to a mechanic today over lunch and had him look at and listen to it. Well, we got nothing. He doesn't think its the throw out bearing because the squeal doesn't change when I engage the clutch. He also doesn't think it's the intake, because it's more of a bearing squeal than an air wheeze. He did notice that my fan clutch is bad, and thinks that may be it, but of course, we couldn't duplicate the sound in the parking lot, only on the road. However, I have been able to dupe the sound while sitting still and out of gear, so that eliminates the tranny and transfer case. I'm taking it back in on Wednesday to put it on a lift and see if we can dupe the sound while someone's underneath. We'll see how that goes... :?
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I'd say idler pulley, or maybe the water pump.
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well a viscous fan clutch that is bad could make a squeling noise only when under a load and it sounds like a belt squeel. upgrade to an electric fan and if it doesn't solve the problem it is still an upgrade and cheaper than a new viscous clutch. my xj's went bad going down the road and i swear it was the belts and i stopped twice to check them and finally my arm moved the fan an a tiny squeek came out. i took it off and spun it hard and it started squeeking so i popped an elctric fan in and never looked back.
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Well, it wasn't the fan. I replaced it Tuesday night. I took it to the shop today, put it on a lift, and put it in gear with slight brake pressure. No squeal. But, of course, the ride back from the shop, I had to listen to it. So, I went to my dad's for lunch, and he and I looked at it again. I was able to duplicate the sound, parked and out of gear, so it's not driveline sensitive. It's also not an air leak, or anything on the front of the engine. We've checked and eliminated all of those possibilities. He's thinking it's coming from the bell housing / starter area. The mechanic mentioned the throw out bearing, but the squeal doesn't change when applying pressure to the clutch. He also mentioned clutch springs. My dad mentioned that the starter could be doing something goofy. I'm still looking for ideas here, so have at it... :?:
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there are springs in the clutch disc meant to dampen the vibration but they shouldn't squeel. the starter could squeel but only if it stayed engaged and then i would say it would squeel constantly. i don't know what else to tell ya without being there.
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A lot has happened since my last post, so I'd like to recap the situation. Still squealing, although the noise has changed a bit. It still has the high squeal, but now it also has a slight tick / tap to the squeal. I know, you kind of have to be there... So, here goes everything that has been replaced: Intake gasket, water pump, radiator, fan clutch, both idler pulleys, and alternator. Still squealing. So, there's no way the squeal is coming from the front of the engine. Plus, it does it while going down the road, and sitting in the driveway. However, to get it to do it while sitting still, you have to get it to squeal while driving, pull over, and then rev it to about 3400 rpms. At that level, it will squeal while sitting still, but it only does it for a few minutes. Then it stops, we drive it a little while longer, and repeat the process. We're taking another stab at isolating the noise again tomorrow evening, so hopefully we can put an end to my frustration.... :evil: In the meantime, I'm open for any new suggestions... Thanks for listening.
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I did not see any mention of the belt getting replaced? They can sometimes look just fine but if the rubber has been heated a stiff spot and or smooth spot develops and will cause the intermittent squeals and ticking noises at certain temperatures and RPM's. If the belt was too loose or too tight damage to the rubber properties can take place which are visually hidden. Also any slight alignment problems with your pulleys can cause it. I had issues like this with a Chevy V8 in a Toyota FJ40 and I had to experiment with different belts until I found one which lasted without getting hot, slipping, or vibrating. My cure was to use a cogged belt. I have also used belt dressing to cure squeals but this fix is only temporary though may assist T-shooting the noise. Have you looked at the power steering and or AC compressor? Is it a whistle type sound which might be heard if the Cat was clogging up when hot? Just my 2 cents.
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Sorry, I did forget to mention that I replaced the belt on Saturday. No A/C, and the noise doesn't appear to be coming from the power steering pump. We scoped it earlier in the day Saturday, and the pump was quiet. The noise hasn't changed a bit, even after all of the belt / pulley crap I've attempted, so I'm fairly confident that it's not a belt issue. However, I could have gotten a hold of a bad water pump. No, what exactly would a bad cat sound like? I don't really have a rattle on startup, and with a 2.5, a lack of power is really hard to decipher. Again, it sounded more like a bearing squeal, and now has a bit of a different type of squeal to it. Do you think it could be a cat convertor?
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When cats go bad they can start clogging, the one I had go bad seemed to work fine until it got hot then it would start slowing me down as it heated up and I had a whistle noise coming from the exhaust as I accelerated. Sounds like your noise is changing so maybe if it gets worse you'll be able to find it easier.
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Abe, you or your friends and family wouldn't happen to have one of the cell phones/smart phones with a camera that lets you shoot 20-30 second video clips that you can upload? I've got one of those Samsung A900 phones that I picked up for 80 bucks + the plan contract and it does the video - maybe you or some others you know have something like that. Could also just use a web cam on a laptop, too
It'd be cool to see if the guys here could diagnose the problem (by audio/video) after reviewing cell phone clips (maybe 5-6) that you shot and put up here. Course, with your engine running, that little cellular mike would probably have a hard time picking up the noise unless its a real high frequency wail. Still, would be cool to try. :D
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Could it be your ears?? Mine ring all the time!!
......sorry, poor attempt at humor. From what everyone else has said and from all you have tried, I would be looking at exhaust/gasket issues if it were me.......you said it was driver's side toward the rear of the engine........can't imagine what else it would be except throw-out bearing. Don't think I helped alot but hope I gave you a short laugh.