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General Forums => The Mess Hall => Topic started by: chrisfranklin on January 29, 2007, 09:30:03 AM
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My YJ could use a new coat of paint on a few surfaces this spring or summer: hood, fenders, the factory bumper/bumperettes. Really didn't want to do the whole body or go to an auto painter or otherwise spend more than 30-40 bucks on the job - especially since my hood and tailgate are dented.
My YJ has black, 13 year old paint. I know about the Rustoleum auto spray (or brush-on) paints. The black auto sprays Rustoleum sells are gloss, flat and a flat/gloss combo. Am actually ok with doing the brush-on route, as I have seen some decent results with it.
Which do you think I should do?
a) buy one can of each variety of the Rustoleum black (flat, gloss, combo), test or otherwise matches the existing 13year old finish best, and then apply (spray or brush) to the limited areas I mentioned
b) mask everything off, pull the spare tire off, fender flares, trim pieces and spray/brush the entire body?
c) skip the DIY and go to a cheap auto paint shop - Sheib or Maaco?
d) Go to a Jeep junkyard and just buy an old, good-condition hood with the factory black paint? Spray the other areas on my list above.
e) Other
Edit: issues for me are going to be a clean, dust-free painting/drying area, time, time for prep-work. Any tips would be helpful.
Edit2: BTW the metal tag showing the paint code was underneath the radiator and attached near it upside down. Surprisingly, no tags indicating paint code were in the doorjams, engine bay or under drivers seat. This was for a 94 YJ.
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Are you talking about the people who aplly rustoleum to cars with rollers that come out almost as good as a gun? If you dont know what I am talking about let me know, I have seen some incredible looking paint jobs done this way amazingly enough.
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well for me i see my 1990 yj as a jeep and in that respect it will eventually get scrapes and dents and other battle scars. so for me i just have a rattle can of black paint that i use to touch up my jeep. you could find a better mathcin g black then what im using but for me it is close enough. and it isnt extremely visable
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Are you talking about the people who aplly rustoleum to cars with rollers that come out almost as good as a gun? If you dont know what I am talking about let me know, I have seen some incredible looking paint jobs done this way amazingly enough.
Basically along those lines, JeepMan. Or use a spray paint. ChardRC has a point about black paint kind of blending with black paint, even if not matched perfectly.
I'd be a lot more eager to do the roller or spray, if I had some place to let the paint dry.
[Los Angeles has dirty air (leave your Jeep outside under clear skys and you'll find it covered in a coat of dust/particulates in a few days)- comes from eastwardly moving ocean winds and then a mountain range together trap low-level air pollutants within LA County]
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Your local paint supply store, (Autobody supply store) can mix factory tinted paint that will match the factory color and put it in a aerosol spray can for you. Cost here in california is about 20 dollars per can, if you are looking to go the DIY way that would be your best bet. You can also by spray can Clear coat which will make the paint job last more so than just spraying base coat out of a can. Main thing is to prep the surface properly, a good paint job is all in the prep work. You need to get some sand paper, can also be purchased at the autobody supply store. Start with arround 120 grit to feather out the chips or what have you in the areas to be painted, then work your way up 240, 320, 400, 600, 800. working a slightly larger area as you go up in grit so that you cover all of your deep grit scratches and have a uniform "non shiny" surface to paint. You can get gray scotch brite pads to do the edges so as you dont break through the paint with the sand paper. Then just apply even steady coats trying not to apply to much at once so that you dont run the paint. Also is important to wait the propper flash time in between coats as described on the back of the spray can, Usually 5-15 minutes, depends on the weather conditions. Once the base coat "color" has been applied and you are satisfied with the coverage you can then apply the clear coat which will protect the work that you have done. The people at the autobody supply stores are also VERY helpfull if they can describe to you how to do almost anything and can suggest products to use. I Manage a Body Shop so if you have any other questions or run into any snags let me know and i will answer them as best as i can.
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Thanks GreatWhite for the info. It helps a great deal.
:D
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Another thing, if all you're doing is repainting the the hood and fenders, then take them off. Since you don't have a garage, it would be a lot easier to paint them elsewhere. I think I'd go with color matching instead of painting it any old color and have it look really bad against the stock color of the body. (paint code is on the driver side firewall)
Sometimes other colors work but it's rare that they will look good. With my Jeep flat OD green works even though the body color is a metallic sage green. John Deere green does not look good though. :shock:
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black rustoleum matches anything
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No problem glad i could help out, let me know if you have any other autobody related questions :)
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Jeep passed SMOG without any "special" efforts and since she's my DD and starting to look pretty shabby and topless season is coming around in So Cal in a couple of months, I decided to order her some paint.
GreatWhite, I did like you said and found my Jeep's Paint code (and also passed along the VIN number, too, to the company). I bought 3 Spray cans of DX8 Jeep Black and 2 cans of clearcoat. Also bought tack cloth, masking tape and full sand paper kit of various grades. To top this off, I ordered new windshield tie-down hardware, new black plastic headlight bezels, new hood-vent cover, new hood latches - the old stuff was looking pretty bad, too. Great White, You think I ordered enough of the Spray Paint?
Total bill for all this came to under $200 (bit over my $30-40 price constraint, but new paint does a lot to restore the looks on a car/Jeep and so it's probably more than worth it). I planned out the job and it looks like it will take about 8-10 days (weather and daylight needs could stretch this out further, as could any unforseen work location issues) :lol: - a few hours each of those days - for hardware removal, sand/prep, clean, base, clear, install new hardware. So, I am going to put in a bit of a labor investment in this on top of the supplies cost.
A few days ago, I did a trial run prepping/masking/spraying my bumper/bumperettes with a Rustoleum flat black. The job turned out great and helped me decide on doing the whole Jeep. If I slow down and pay attention to the prep-work and details, then I think I can pull this full body job off very well.
As for the dented tailgate - its pretty well obscured by the spare tire. And the hood dent is tough to make out, too. But, I may ultimately replace those body panels with painted fiberglass or kevlar ones down the road or just get them from a junkyard and paint them.
And, if I bang, roll or scar the jeep up after the paint job, it's no big deal. I only put a few hundred bucks and some time in to the new finish.
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3 rattle cans for the hole jeep :shock: .. your going to be going a little thin on the paint.. which is ok if your going over the same color as the new stuff.. but i seem to remember painting a cj2a before and it took.. actually about 3... hopefully it turns out good for you....
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3 cans is probably not enough to do the whole jeep, yet again there is not a whole lot of jeep to paint and you are staying with the same color, so you shouldnt have a problem with the base coat covering. Best thing to do is to just apply even light coats you might be able to make what you have work i doubt it though. It depends on how much paint is in each spray can some cans are fairly large and others are mostly compressed air and little paint at all. your in it this deep just plan arround spraying when the paint supply store is still open so that you can run down and get another can or two if need be.
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I highly recommend getting a spray can trigger. They're around $3 but will make painting a lot easier and more consistent since you won't have to press the nozzle head the whole time. 3 cans does seem way too light though. I'd say no less then 5. Are you going to do an sanding between coats?
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After the Superbowl, I went ahead and added an extra 2 cans of the DX8 Black and 1 Can of Clearcoat to the order (guess I am not the first guy using this place to want to ad to or change an order :lol: - they let you ad to your existing online order if you manage to do it before the original order has been executed). Bumped the price about $65. So I am at 5 cans of DX8 Black and 3 cans of clear. If I have an extra can, I'll keep it around for touch up work. So, total for this job is only around $250 in supplies.
I'll go ahead and do a light sanding between coats and pick up one of those triggers too. Take a couple of before and after photos, etc.
The place I used for paint is called www.paintscratch.com.
Edit: Make that $300 is supplies with the addition of the wheel paint!
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Last night, I went ahead and ordered some silver argent wheel paint, too. It was actually from a VW Bug supplier. Was going to order the Wurst paint, but suppliers were out and I figured it would look a little too shiny.
The silver argent is for spraying on my old, stock wheels. Maybe I should have gone with flat Black? Gunmetal Grey?
I figure silver stock is probably the least headache in the long run.
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Greatwhite...
Would it be 'advisable' to first primer/sealer the jeep before putting on the base color - or maybe it does not matter if you are staying close to the base color on the re-spray ?
I considered trying the 'roller' method, but I can't find a decent color. Also I see that Maaco has a special going on right now - 1/2 off the presidential special - so about 350 bux. But that's for a stage 1 enamel.
Al
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Hmm, why would you need to primer when there is already paint on the metal and most likely a primer under the paint already. If the paint is in alright condition, ie., no rust or open patches of bare metal, then you should sand down the paint to give the new stuff something to hold onto. Greatwrite already mentioned doing this in an earlier post.
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Jeffy -
Sorry if I missed the earlier post from Greatwhite - I must have been in a rush while reading thru the posts... - I had heard conflicting explanations recently from other body shop guys - one being that it's advisable to do a sealer/primer first before doing the color paint so the original paint does not "bleed thru".
--- Al
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Jeffy -
Sorry if I missed the earlier post from Greatwhite - I must have been in a rush while reading thru the posts... - I had heard conflicting explanations recently from other body shop guys - one being that it's advisable to do a sealer/primer first before doing the color paint so the original paint does not "bleed thru".
--- Al
As long as you doing the same color or a darker color on top of a lighter you shouldn't have any problems with bleeding through. It's when you do a lighter color, like white over a dark color, like black, that the color get a bit muddy.
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Sorry it took me so long to get back to you. Jeffy is right, as long as you are going the same color there is no need to prime over the existing paint. Sealer is typically used to provide better coverage for the paint, for instance if you are changing colors you can seal the areas first, sealers are usually tinted to the color you are painting. This is done because sealers are typically cheaper then base coat, so it allows you to use less base coat to get the coverage you need, but you wont have that problem. If you break through the original paint in any areas, edges or where chips were, it is a good idea to primer those areas as just painting over bare metal is never a good idea. As long as your paint is in good shape for the most part and isnt peeling or starting to fall off ;) then just sanding it so there are no "shiny" spots will be good enough. A good paint job is all in the prep work so dont hesitate to spend some extra time on this step to make sure that you will have a good surface for your new paint to stick to. hope this helps.
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The paint I ordered was delivered yesterday. I have to admit it is pretty sweet that, these days, you can order a factory paint color, have it put in spray cans and then shipped right to your door. Great idea!
When I was first thinking about this, I was probably just going to do a little sanding and then go with a Rustoleum Auto gloss/flat black combo. And, I was planning to just do the hood/ front fenders. But I was thinking that the color matching might end up a little off versus the existing, 13 year old factory black paint.
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go to www.autobody101.com for information on painting, prep work, finishing, etc... A lot of people do recommend sealing before painting, to seal off the old paint and give a new fresh even surface for the new paint to stick to. Its not needed, but as mentioned you can get it in a color close to what you are painting to help. If you have any metal showing make sure you apply etching primer to those areas.
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Taking my time on this. Haven't started painting or anything. Went ahead and bought a "used" YJ tailgate (factory black) to replace my dented original. Going to have to pull the spare and swap the locks to get this on. Contacted a bunch of Jeep yards about buying an old tailgate. Getting quotes for around $250 before shipping. I ended up buying one off "everyones favorite auction site" for $120 including shipping.
I know I am going to paint this thing all pretty, then probably lift it and roll it on some nice rocks. But, what the heck. :lol:
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Pulled all 4 stock wheels off last night, then cleaned, sanded, cleaned again, primed with rustoleum primer and sprayed them with the Duplicolor Silver Argent Wheel spray paint I picked up from a VW Bug restoration outfit. Finally hit them with the clearcoat.
The results are decent if you take your time with it: ie. hold the can 10 inches away and keep the coats light. The 13 year old wheels basically look new (course, we are only talking the stock steelies)
I followed the directions on the cans using the primer and clearcoat. Was directed to basically just do light coats and every 10 minutes apply another. Thing is, it didn't say anything about the clearcoat application. I didn't know whether to let 10-20 minutes elapse and then do the clearcoat or whether I was supposed to hold off for 24 hours or so before applying it. Naturally, I took the 10-20 minute approach. But, it seems like everything hardenened ok today.
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Sounds great! Lets see some pictures of you hard work :thumbsup:
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Here's a couple of post-paint photos of one of the wheels, GreatWhite:
[attachment deleted by admin]
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Done the front bumper, rear bumperettes, & wheels already. Now we get to the body: I've got to sand, clean, mask, spray a bunch of coats of the DX8 Black + light sand + clean, clearcoat. May even bang out a hood dent and spring for some Everclear (mean Evercoat :lol:) before all that.
Attached is a photo of the dark side of the moon - my hood:
[attachment deleted by admin]
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How is this for Rattle Can painting:
1) do all body work
if any metal comes thru sanding - do I etch prime and then use bondo to get the bondo area even with
the existing paint level
sand with correct grit paper
2) prime entire jeep with primer (not etching type?)
do I need to sand the primer after applying
3) paint BC about 5 - 6 coats for thickness
do I sand every 3, don't sand at all, or sand the final coat with 1000 or 1500 wet sand
4) clear coat it
ps - of course clean car after any sanding etc.
I guess the bondo and when to sand is my biggest questions.
Thx
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All of this for a JEEP? An offroad utility vehicle? I will be curious to see how well it turns out though, sounds like you know what you are doing,
best of luck,
-Marc
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Yesterday I went ahead and removed paint from couple of areas on the hood and fender that had dents. Didn't really want to get in to body work on a Jeep that is just going to get banged up again. But, figured if I am going to got the trouble of spraying it, I might as well spend an extra few hours and go all the way.
I'm using Evercoat (which, versus Bondo, apparently doesn't produce as many pinholes that you have to go over with another filler). Its lightweight, decent stuff.
Here's the problem though: I was using one of those plastic spatula appliator deals and it seemed to flex too much when I applied the filler; rather than leveling off the Evercoat, the spatula seemd to flex in to the shallow dent, essentially not filling it (I'm not sure what I am going to do about this except try to find/buy a stiffer spatual/applicator).
Frankly, my Evercoat "management" was also a little off and the stuff got all over the place, hood and was dripping off the plastic mixing pallette I bought! You mix the stuff with the hardener and you've gotta move fast because you have about 5 minutes to apply it. Even with the hardener, though, the stuff was running all over the place
I'm fixing yesterday's mess this morning and giving it another go today. The Evercoat hardens like a rock, though, I will give it that.
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If you apply more then you need you can sand out the hump, your not going to get the bump filled in one coat either. How big of a dent are you trying to fill also?
EDIT:
Here is something on bondo/evercoat from the autobody101 forum i told you to check out:
http://www.autobody101.com/articles/article.php?title=Plastic%20Filler%20(aka%20Bondo) (http://www.autobody101.com/articles/article.php?title=Plastic%20Filler%20(aka%20Bondo))
Here is something on various grits of sandpaper to use and when:
http://www.autobody101.com/forums/about1945.html (http://www.autobody101.com/forums/about1945.html)
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Can't you get a Maaco paint job for about 300$? What kind of quality difference can you get doing the spray can way. Seems the PITA factor would make it worth spending the extra cash to have it done at a shop.
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Personally I think the DIY spray job is the easy part. I've got the factory DX8 black paint in cans + the clear coat in cans too. Mask the Jeep, do a little sanding to prep and you are good. My luck with DIY spray painting, so far, has been good.
I've seen the Scheib jobs and the paint isn't the factory color and the masking is not exactly top notch (though you can fix that with some Goof Off product). Maaco is better although dunno about factory color, either.
Its the filler part that is causing me a little trouble (but, I had to do it or I'd be kicking myself later on)
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If you apply more then you need you can sand out the hump, your not going to get the bump filled in one coat either. How big of a dent are you trying to fill also?
EDIT:
Here is something on bondo/evercoat from the autobody101 forum i told you to check out:
http://www.autobody101.com/articles/article.php?title=Plastic%20Filler%20(aka%20Bondo) (http://www.autobody101.com/articles/article.php?title=Plastic%20Filler%20(aka%20Bondo))
Here is something on various grits of sandpaper to use and when:
http://www.autobody101.com/forums/about1945.html (http://www.autobody101.com/forums/about1945.html)
Thanks again for these links, Wrangler
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If you apply more then you need you can sand out the hump, your not going to get the bump filled in one coat either. How big of a dent are you trying to fill also?
EDIT:
Here is something on bondo/evercoat from the autobody101 forum i told you to check out:
http://www.autobody101.com/articles/article.php?title=Plastic%20Filler%20(aka%20Bondo) (http://www.autobody101.com/articles/article.php?title=Plastic%20Filler%20(aka%20Bondo))
Here is something on various grits of sandpaper to use and when:
http://www.autobody101.com/forums/about1945.html (http://www.autobody101.com/forums/about1945.html)
I read the links a couple of times.
The dent that I a filling is on the hood, basically where a gust of wind threw the popped hood against the top of the windshield hard and made a long line dent across the metal. Its only about 3/8s of an inch deep, but I stare at it all day long if I'm driving, so I wanted to fix it.
Did the first Evercoat app Saturday. Didn't have a body file, so their are some high spots (and low spots). The Evercoat/Bondo is sandable, even after it has cured for 3 days, right (I figure it is)? I was going to sand down the high-spots with a block and some heavier grit paper and then apply the second round of Evercoat. Think I should just do the second Evercoat app and then do the sanding or sand out the high spots, first? Thanks.
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Went a second round on the Evercoat this evening. Also bought all the various grits of paper I am going to need. This Evercoat stuff is good (as long as you keep the amount on the mixing board down to something golf-ball sized and manageable); mix too much and it slides all over the place (w/hardener added or not).
After I get done with this I am going to build a Jeep body entirely out of 20 gallons of Evercoat and Chicken-wire. :lol:
Note: The Evercoat dent-filler came out great. Sands real nice, etc. I am going over everything now with some primer filler to fill in the shallow scratches, etc. to give it that pro finish. With the primer filler dry I moved on to sanding 600 and topcoat. Course, spraying the hood while keeping it attached to the body means that you are spraying with the paint can while it's in a less-than-vertical position.
As such, the paint flow is awful. May have to remove the hood :fitz:
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So I filled the dents I had on the hood & fenders and was all set to paint in a discreet section of the parking lot at my place. Expected to get on it one day last weekend. But, you know what happens? A couple of teenage jokers at the apartment complex where I live in Toluca Lake, Ca. decided to light some fireworks and proceeded to set like 150 square acres in the Griffith Park/Hollywood Hills behind us on fire. Photos of the moonscape that was the forest behind my place will follow this post :lol:
Needless to say, using any flammable spray paints here now on my Jeep now could move my status with apt. security down from "barely-tolerate" to "call-the-cops."
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haha that sucks, similar situation with kids and fireworks happened across the street from where i live about 6-8 months ago... Teenagers just dont know better.
I would remove the hood if i were you. I think it would be a pain in the arse to try and get an even coat on it while on the jeep. The fenders i think you can do while they are on the jeep. I'm glad the evercoat stuff worked out for you, thats what i used on my old integra, needless to say i preferred it over "bondo" brand. Its been probably 2 years or so since i've messed around painting so a lot of the details have slipped my mind, thats why i keep recommending you to that site... There were a lot of professional autobody and painters on that forum when i was asking questions and searching.
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Still a little hesitant to paint the body itself but will the same process work for the bumpers and roll bar?
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My first go at painting my Jeep a few months ago didn't work. I was using an expensive batch color-matched spray paint on it outside and the wind was a b#$ch and most of the paint was getting pi#$ed away in to the air. Also, I didn't have a back-up vehicle to use while the Jeep dried out with each coat. And I didn't like the color of this black custom spray paint, either :mad:. So in the end, it was a fiasco.
I've done the cheap auto paint places -- Maaco and Scheib -- on other cars. You can do a lot of the body-work, masking, sanding and trim removal to keep costs down. And they can prep it and give it a couple of coat of black for about $300 + tax. But the end result can be hit or miss.
Lately, I have seriously been looking at a roller job. Buy 3 quarts of some gloss black, Rustoleum marine paint -- which has supposedly decent UV protection and durability -- thin it out and do several coats with rollers and foam brushes.
Masking is less of an issue doing this, unlike spraying in the wind rolled on paint will actually make it on the intended surface, you can do one section at a time and come back to it as necessary, each coat dries in 5-6 hours if thinned, none of the spray paint odor or rattle cans to shake, work that I have seen (in photos) looks ok, its fairly cheap to do ($50-$100 plus your time), and if you damage the finish off road you can fix it yourself. I figure if you use a higher quality paint, you can probably get a finish that lasts more than the 2 or so years standard Rustoleum is supposed to give.
Yeah, sh#ts going to get in the paint if you do it outside and you are going to sand like crazy. But I think I'll end up doing a better job than the $300 Maaco deal.
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http://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=2331682&page=0&fpart=1&vc=1 (http://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=2331682&page=0&fpart=1&vc=1)
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http://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=2331682&page=0&fpart=1&vc=1 (http://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=2331682&page=0&fpart=1&vc=1)
We talked about that tremclad paint job last year, too.
http://4bangerjp.com/forums/index.php?topic=1819
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If I give this a go, I'll work on getting some photos this time. ;)
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Read the white corvair roller/rustoleum post: http://www.rickwrench.com/50dollarpaint.html.
Guy who did it said he was considering using a higher quality of paint the next time around because he had heard people say that the Rustoleum paint jobs on their cars had faded.
I wanted to order several quarts of Rustoleum marine paint (looking for better wear and fade-resistance). But outlet where I found it wouldn't sell to me because shipping address was in California (and the Rust marine paint fell under Volatile Organic Compound or VOC classification).
Then I read this post on using Interlux Polyurethane Marine Paint as auto paint: http://carpainting.wetpaint.com/page/Rollering+Interlux+Brightside+Polyurethane+Paint.
You don't thin the poly type paints nearly as much as Rustoleum (Rustoleum is 50/50 with mineral spirits). Interlux post suggests painting car using ratios of 90% polyurethane/10% mineral spirits, 95%/5%, and 100% poly/none as the coats progress. Drying time is 24 hours with the thinned polyurethane versus 5-6 hours with 50/50 Rustoleum.
I went ahead and ordered 3 quarts of this single-stage, polyurethane enamel called Blue Water Marine Paint, http://www.ipaint.us/blwapoto.html., since I could find Interlux in Gloss Black.
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Received the three quarts of this Blue Water Paint. I'll be happy if this stuff works out well. Still have to do a little bodywork and sanding. Suspect that the "ultra gloss" urethane enamel paint job could end up looking more blingy/pimp than I wanted.
But give the smog a couple of days and the shine will dim a little. Give the smog a week and it'll go flat black :lol:
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They've got a forum for everything now, even roll-on auto paint jobs. See www.rolledon.com
I finalized my YJ's paint job about a month ago and posted some of the photos showing the work progression: http://rolledon.com/projects-f2/black-1994-jeep-yj-t30.htm.
It came out surprisingly well.
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Looks pretty nice Chris, I guess there is light at the end of the tunnel after all
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Yeah, thanks Art (Especially on that tip about using the Sealer :beers:).
I've got to decide whether or not to apply a clearcoat. I am kind of disinclined. You figure that you're just going to dent the jeep again off-road or some kid-gangster puke on foot is going to key the thing after slashing the windows. So why bother with the clearcoat: its just going to complicate repairs.
If I see any fade in the topcoat over a couple of years, I am just going to dewax, sand lightly and then put on a couple more thinned coats of Poly on, probably.
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c'mon....clearcoat it...you know you want to..... :stick:
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I do want to. But I also know the street environment I am in (and have been in) and how the jeep is going to get used on and off-road. More power to the new jeeps and showqueens if they want to "rock" the clearcoat. :pirate: