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General Forums => The Mess Hall => Topic started by: officer mike on May 08, 2007, 02:35:27 PM
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CJ d44 or 8.8? now the 8.8 has dics but the d44 is cheaper. this would be going ina tj. what do you guys think? Thanks Mike
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CJ D44 is too narrow. Even if you use a widetrack it will be too narrow. Not to mention the bolt pattern will be different. Although I guess you could use wheel spacers to make them wider while also changing the pattern.
There are a lot of other choices; XJ/MJ D44, Scout II D44, SJ D44, Isuzu D44, J-Truck D44, etc... Or go bigger with a IH Travel all D60, J-Truck D60, Ford 9" (LTD/Grand Marquis/Lincoln Town Car, 4.5" bolt pattern + Disc brakes) Early Bronco 9", Corporate 14 Bolt... For a TJ, the easiest bolt-in is a TJ D44. You could also go with a custom axle. Even with a salvage axle, once you get done with replacing gears, shims bearings, seals, brakes, add lockers, etc, you'll probably have around $1000-1200 invested in the axle. You might also look on other forums for people selling off their old axles. There are pretty good deals out there for people upgrading.
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Not to hijack the thread, but would you recommend the same for a YJ?
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Not to hijack the thread, but would you recommend the same for a YJ?
Any of the above but not a TJ D44. YJ stuff is cheaper since you don't have to worry about brackets. Perches are $20 a pair and shock mounts are the same. There are many 8.8" swaps since they are fairly plentiful and easy to do. I run a XJ D44 though. If I was to do it over again and stay salvage, I'd probably go with a pair of SJ F44's. Right now, I might go 9" or D60 when/if funds are available.
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I am gonna stick with 33's for a while so I am hoping 8.8's or D44's will be good. Can you get 4.88 gears for both of these?
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I am gonna stick with 33's for a while so I am hoping 8.8's or D44's will be good. Can you get 4.88 gears for both of these?
Yes, both have ratios lower then what your D30 can go to...
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Thanks for the info. I will begin hunting as soon as the engine is finished.
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Consider upgrading the D30 as well so you can go with low enough gears for the 4banger. The 4.88 max that will fit the D30 isn't really low enough, 5.13 would be better suited to 33" tires.
I installed an Isuzu Rodeo rear D44 (factory disc brakes) and a Waggy front D44, both with 5.38 gears. Similar to what they did in a recent JP mag article. Nice thing is they have matching 6-lug wheel pattern and tons of aftermarket support. Having locking hubs is a sweet bonus.
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I am doing some engine mods right now. Bored 60 over, balancing, performance cam, port matching the head and all the bolt ons. With the hp increase do you think I would still need to go as low as 5.13? I really am trying to stay with 5 on 4.5 bolt pattern cause I just boought the tires and rims!
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I am doing some engine mods right now. Bored 60 over, balancing, performance cam, port matching the head and all the bolt ons. With the hp increase do you think I would still need to go as low as 5.13? I really am trying to stay with 5 on 4.5 bolt pattern cause I just boought the tires and rims!
The engine won't be able to do it's best unless the gearing is within reason. For the 4bangers, it's always better to go one more gear set lower then you calculate. This accounts for added weight and less aerodynamics from increased lift. If you really don't plan on going with tires over 33" and don't want to upgrade the front axle then you're pretty much stuck at 4.88's. Although you could get a TJ D44 front core and build it up. This will allow you to keep 5 on 4.5 pattern as well as your outer knuckles from your D30. while sill allowing you to gear lower. I think it's the only option available if you wanted to keep what you have and still gear lower.
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Damon... I cannot speak from experiance yet but I plan on taking your route. And I am hopeing that it will be OK. no doubt the 513s would be better if u are into the rocks and crawling I guess. But i still think the 4.88s will be ok. For instance I just sold my Xj with 32s the 4.0HO and ax 15 and the gearing was 3.07s and it was greeat. Maybe not the best number for the rocks but on the street is was kinda like a muscle car. And i love when 2nd takes me almost to 60. again not what most ppl want out of thier jeep. But I love it. 3.55s might have been a bit better all round for quickness.
Damon also.. can you please tell me wher you located the pistons for your .60 overbore. thank you Mike
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Damon...you can get axle shafts with 5 on 4.5 patterns. My 9" is dual cut for either 5 on 4.5 or 5 on 5. If you change wheels and bolt pattern you can press out the old studs and press in new ones to match the larger pattern
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Damon... I cannot speak from experiance yet but I plan on taking your route. And I am hopeing that it will be OK. no doubt the 513s would be better if u are into the rocks and crawling I guess. But i still think the 4.88s will be ok. For instance I just sold my Xj with 32s the 4.0HO and ax 15 and the gearing was 3.07s and it was greeat. Maybe not the best number for the rocks but on the street is was kinda like a muscle car. And i love when 2nd takes me almost to 60. again not what most ppl want out of thier jeep. But I love it. 3.55s might have been a bit better all round for quickness.
Damon also.. can you please tell me wher you located the pistons for your .60 overbore. thank you Mike
Right now I have Hyperutectic pistons from sivolite part # 3238hc you can get stock .30 and .60. These are a little stronger than cast and run about $150 for a set. You will have to call them to get a dealer local to you. Also they do not come with rings. www.kb-silvolite.com If you plan on raising compression or using forced induction you will probably need forged pistons. Flatlander racing will custom make those for you if you want them but they are around $500 for a set and take 6 weeks to get. Hope that helps.
I will probably stick with the 4.88s right now to keep costs down too. I plan to change the rear axle to d44s or the 8.8s but will probably leave the d30 up front for now. The engine, rear axle, lift and tires are enough for a while!
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Damon...you can get axle shafts with 5 on 4.5 patterns. My 9" is dual cut for either 5 on 4.5 or 5 on 5. If you change wheels and bolt pattern you can press out the old studs and press in new ones to match the larger pattern
Sounds good, that will help me keep my options open when I am shopping around. Thanks
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One more thing about the axle swaps! I can't remember where I read this at but the gist was that larger axle tubes can change your height by up to 5/8 of an inch? Has anyone ever run into this?
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One more thing about the axle swaps! I can't remember where I read this at but the gist was that larger axle tubes can change your height by up to 5/8 of an inch? Has anyone ever run into this?
Yes, you will get less lift when SUA and more when SOA if you increase the axle DIA. size.
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Right now I have Hyperutectic pistons from sivolite part # 3238hc you can get stock .30 and .60. These are a little stronger than cast and run about $150 for a set. You will have to call them to get a dealer local to you. Also they do not come with rings. www.kb-silvolite.com If you plan on raising compression or using forced induction you will probably need forged pistons. Flatlander racing will custom make those for you if you want them but they are around $500 for a set and take 6 weeks to get. Hope that helps.
I will probably stick with the 4.88s right now to keep costs down too. I plan to change the rear axle to d44s or the 8.8s but will probably leave the d30 up front for now. The engine, rear axle, lift and tires are enough for a while!
Thanks.. so what do I do about rings?
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What ever auto parts dealer you get the pistons from should be able to match you up with rings. I got some hastings rings but I can't recall what the part # was (the rings are at the machine shop right now). I will be heading down to the shop sometime this week and I will try to get the part # on those.
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Thanks Damon
Today I scored an 8.8. Its from an 01 explorer and it had 4.10s so let me know if anyone wants that gearset pretty cheap. It has disc brakes and it has the facotry limited slip. The guy said it was a locker but I think that he meant limited slip. Anyway it cost me 250. So I guess I have to purchase the axle kit from either tera or M O R E or rubicon express. I am going to get the clayton long arms and that comes with the truss which has the upper mounts on them. is there a way to get away with out buying the bracket kit? or just the coil buckets? Also with 6 inches of lift will I need to do something with my shock mounts? Thanks guys
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Thanks Damon
Today I scored an 8.8. Its from an 01 explorer and it had 4.10s so let me know if anyone wants that gearset pretty cheap. It has disc brakes and it has the facotry limited slip. The guy said it was a locker but I think that he meant limited slip. Anyway it cost me 250. So I guess I have to purchase the axle kit from either tera or M O R E or rubicon express. I am going to get the clayton long arms and that comes with the truss which has the upper mounts on them. is there a way to get away with out buying the bracket kit? or just the coil buckets? Also with 6 inches of lift will I need to do something with my shock mounts? Thanks guys
You are correct it's an Eaton Limited Slip Differential.
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Hey Jeffy Do you know how well it works? Thanks
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Since you are going LA, you could look into transferring the spring pads over from axle to axle. You lower control arm mounts could be made from box tubing and cut to fit the tube. You are going to probably have to bring the rear axle under the Jeep, get a measurement for the ds/pinion angles, figure to move the axle as far back as possible (don't forget if you adding a thicker cover to it) and spot them in. That way, you can actually take use of the LA geometry. For your shocks, I'd suggest that you consider to relocate them directly behind the control arm mount. Angle them to a mount that is 'outside' the frame. Basically take the Ford F250 shock mount (it's close to 1/4" thick), cut your frame to fit it, weld it in the frame and angle enough to have articulation clearance. Remember articulation is the twisting of the axle against itself. Droop and compression is part of the measurement, but you have other considerations when the axle is articulating. If you do a search on JeepsUnlimited, you'll see about what I'm suggesting for the shock relocation. I wouldn't use the stock configuration. The stock mount is not sturdy enough for the long travel and the shock interferes with the spring mount.
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Since I am going to have a cv ds, the rear pinion has to be aimed at the transfer. my question is should weld my spring buckets a little more forward on the axle, and maybe do something with the shock mounts? Thanks guys. Mike
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Hey Jeffy Do you know how well it works? Thanks
I believe it's a clutch type differential. It has springs that press against the clutches.Since I am going to have a cv ds, the rear pinion has to be aimed at the transfer. my question is should weld my spring buckets a little more forward on the axle, and maybe do something with the shock mounts? Thanks guys. Mike
Do you have poly or rubber mounts on your control arms? If so you might want to add 1-2* to the pinion angle so it's slightly less(ie. down) then the driveshaft angle. This is done because when rotational torque is applied the axle housing will want to rotate in the opposite direction as the rotation. I'm not sure if this still applies to solid joints but I would assume it wouldn't hurt either. Tom even mentions it;
NOTE: To prevent drive shaft tensional vibrations your net "U" joint angle at the differential end should be less than 3 degrees. It will be better to leave the pinion tail a little downward rather than too far upward to allow for natural spring wrap.
As for the buckets, I'd probably rotate them so they are inline. A couple degrees shouldn't really matter though. With the shock mounts, I would rotate them up so they aren't hanging below the axle tube. This gets them out of the way. It's just one less then to get hung up on. Stock position isn't really critical so you can move them a bit.