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General Forums => The Mess Hall => Topic started by: neale_rs on October 01, 2007, 08:54:38 AM
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Is the Trail Master 3" lift for the YJ a good lift? I think at least Jeffy has some experience with this brand. Thanks
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I'd say it's OK but there are better kits out there. I've been running Trail Master leafs since '93 and they have softened up a but but haven't sagged. They ride fairly stiff unless you do stuff like remove the track bars and loosen up the shackles. They actually rode better with the 1.25" shackles I had before. I think it's probably because of the length of the leafs. They're longer then stock and put the shackle kind of far out there, so the ride suffered.
If I was going to go with a lift, today I would spend the bucks for a Rubicon Express Extreme Duty 4.5" lift. It costs more but then you get more too. A lot of stuff that you would probably get anyway. Otherwise, you could piece together your own custom suspension with some nice Alcan Springs leafs. Last time I talked to them, the leafs were $150 each. No other hardware. So you'd need to buy everything separately.
After changing my suspension around and watching my friends do it, I highly suggest you do it right the first time or else it will get expensive. If you've considering 33's you might want to think about going SOA or even SOA/SUA like I'm running. Both of these will require a lot more research and someone who can weld.
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Decisions, decisions. I keep going back and forth between the 4" and 4.5" RE lifts and smaller lifts like the OME 2.5", RE 2.5"s, and the Trail Master 3". Thanks for the advice. I may end up flipping a coin!
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Decisions, decisions. I keep going back and forth between the 4" and 4.5" RE lifts and smaller lifts like the OME 2.5", RE 2.5"s, and the Trail Master 3". Thanks for the advice. I may end up flipping a coin!
For off the shelf lifts, if you want to stay under 33's then go with the 2.5 OME and get the 4.0L leafs so they aren't too soft. OME is one of the only companies that makes leafs that are different for the 2.5L and the 4.0L. I'd go with the heavier leafs if you plan on winches, bumpers and what not.
If you want to go with 33's to 37's then the RE 4.5" Extreme Duty kit is hard to beat.
If you have money burning a hole in your pocket then you could go with the Fabtech Coil-over conversion. :wall:
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Thanks for the straighforward advice. I'll first decide on the tire size and then go with one or the other. The coil-over would be a bit much for me, I only do one (big) mod per year to allow saving up!
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The rule of thumb I have always heard when your using lift leaf springs is to go at leats 1" longer on the shackle. Helps with the ride. But quality shocks will also help, and many times the base shocks they include in a lift are really stiff. I had the trail master 3" lift with some 1" lift shackles on my 1993 YJ. It rode pretty well with some of the upgraded shocks. It has been so long now, I don't remember what they were called, but I had to pay another hundred or so more then what it cost for the cheaper ones.
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Thanks. Sounds like a good option.
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Another good one to consider is BDS. Almost every YJ in my club runs their springs.
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Yes BDS is good stuff, they have an unbeatable warranty as well. :beers:
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Yeah, I've heard a ton of good things about BDS as well. It's the route I'm planning on going, since all i can do is research until my funds grow a bit more for a lift. (Trying to keep myself busy with other small projects on the Jeep while the bigger stuff waits). Also, the local 4x4 shop really suggests them, and you cannot beat their guarantee.
I'm going to go with the BDS 3.5" lift I'm pretty sure. It's the largest lift you can get and not do a SYE kit at the same time (though that's down the road when my Jeep is not my DD and I can have it out of commission for a bit). I'm planning on running 33's for this stage (until I can afford another vehicle for my DD.)
OME also has great reviews, but it's $$ and I can't see any reason myself /not/ to go BDS.
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Where is a good place to get BDS? I looked on their web page and they seem to be even more expensive than OME :confused:.
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I don't know anyone who has bought the "kit" We buy the springs at a local 4x4 shop - mine I actually got slightly used.
Springs, bushings, u-bolts, shocks, a set of boomerang type shackles and an SYE are the standard set of parts.
BDS springs are more expensive, but they don't break down and wear out.
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Yeah, I've heard a ton of good things about BDS as well. It's the route I'm planning on going, since all i can do is research until my funds grow a bit more for a lift. (Trying to keep myself busy with other small projects on the Jeep while the bigger stuff waits). Also, the local 4x4 shop really suggests them, and you cannot beat their guarantee.
I'm going to go with the BDS 3.5" lift I'm pretty sure. It's the largest lift you can get and not do a SYE kit at the same time (though that's down the road when my Jeep is not my DD and I can have it out of commission for a bit). I'm planning on running 33's for this stage (until I can afford another vehicle for my DD.)
OME also has great reviews, but it's $$ and I can't see any reason myself /not/ to go BDS.
An SYE really is needed with a 3.5" lift regardless of what someones advertising might say. Installing an SYE is pretty quick and easy.
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I don't know anyone who has bought the "kit" We buy the springs at a local 4x4 shop - mine I actually got slightly used.
Springs, bushings, u-bolts, shocks, a set of boomerang type shackles and an SYE are the standard set of parts.
BDS springs are more expensive, but they don't break down and wear out.
What boomerang shackeles do you use, regular lenght or 1 inch longer than stock?
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They are 1 1/4" longer than stock. Local guy cut them, so they only cost $40 for a set of 4 full shackles
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Yeah, I've heard a ton of good things about BDS as well. It's the route I'm planning on going, since all i can do is research until my funds grow a bit more for a lift. (Trying to keep myself busy with other small projects on the Jeep while the bigger stuff waits). Also, the local 4x4 shop really suggests them, and you cannot beat their guarantee.
I'm going to go with the BDS 3.5" lift I'm pretty sure. It's the largest lift you can get and not do a SYE kit at the same time (though that's down the road when my Jeep is not my DD and I can have it out of commission for a bit). I'm planning on running 33's for this stage (until I can afford another vehicle for my DD.)
OME also has great reviews, but it's $$ and I can't see any reason myself /not/ to go BDS.
An SYE really is needed with a 3.5" lift regardless of what someones advertising might say. Installing an SYE is pretty quick and easy.
With the transfercase drop he should be ok. I know when I added my shackles though the transfercase drop wasn't enough and I would go through the bottom u-joint on the rear drive shaft every couple of months. Funny though on my TJ I have over 3" of lift and no transfercase drop....
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Better off saving up for the SYE and having a cherokee CV shaft cut down. Tcase drop is a band-aid. Why bother lifting the jeep 3.5" only to drop the belly down an inch? Besides, for a daily driver eating a driveshaft u-joint every few months isn't really a good thing unless it happens when you are pulling into the driveway.
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Better off saving up for the SYE and having a cherokee CV shaft cut down. Tcase drop is a band-aid. Why bother lifting the jeep 3.5" only to drop the belly down an inch? Besides, for a daily driver eating a driveshaft u-joint every few months isn't really a good thing unless it happens when you are pulling into the driveway.
Well it is a SWB rig right, so belly clearence isn't as much of an issue like it is on a truck or longer suv. Plus your still lifting the frame, gas tank, and everything else except the axles 3.5"....I just don't see the 1" drop as big -o-deal as some people do. But your right going through the u-joints was not a fun deal, but now they have Motor Mount lifts which should also help to alleviate vibe issues. I tend not to worry about stuff so much. Do the lift and if you get vibes with the x-fer drop, then worry about getting the SYE, XJ drive shaft, and a shim kit to get your driveline angles correct.
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Thanks for all the ideas. I'm going to see about buying the BDS springs without the rest of the kit and see how it prices out.
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I've got the 4.5'' Superflex and am really pleased with the way it handles. I think if you go with good shocks, your onroad handling will not suffer. You'll be mad you didn't go larger later if you decide on a 3.5 or 3''.
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Thanks. Back to square one, good thing I´m doing this next summer so it gives me some time to think and decide what to do!
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In all honesty if I were building another YJ I'd spend $500 on a set of waggy dana 44's, and do a spring over conversion and 35's. With the waggy front you get the option of adding high steer, better gearing choices, bigger brakes, bigger ball joints, better hubs, bigger ring and pinion. YJ's have a huge advantage over TJ's when it comes to axle swaps. Anyone that can weld should be able to do a spring over, and spring pads are cheap.
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In all honesty if I were building another YJ I'd spend $500 on a set of waggy dana 44's, and do a spring over conversion and 35's. With the waggy front you get the option of adding high steer, better gearing choices, bigger brakes, bigger ball joints, better hubs, bigger ring and pinion. YJ's have a huge advantage over TJ's when it comes to axle swaps. Anyone that can weld should be able to do a spring over, and spring pads are cheap.
Have you actually ever done a spring over? It isn't as easy as just putting some perches on an axle.
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In all honesty if I were building another YJ I'd spend $500 on a set of waggy dana 44's, and do a spring over conversion and 35's. With the waggy front you get the option of adding high steer, better gearing choices, bigger brakes, bigger ball joints, better hubs, bigger ring and pinion. YJ's have a huge advantage over TJ's when it comes to axle swaps. Anyone that can weld should be able to do a spring over, and spring pads are cheap.
Have you actually ever done a spring over? It isn't as easy as just putting some perches on an axle.
I have done about 5. And it is pretty easy :twofingers:buy or build an anti wrap bar for the rear and for the front you can do a z-bar style of steering at the low end of tech or you could do a full on high steer or cross over style if you went with a waggy or some other 44.
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What exactly is the "cross over steering"? I keep hearing about this but don't know what it is.
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http://www.pirate4x4.com/tech/billavista/Steering/Steering_Research/steeringresearch.htm
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Thanks, great page. It looks like the old CJ setup.
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Thanks, great page. It looks like the old CJ setup.
CJ will have an Inverted T.
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Here is a picture of the CJ steering:
http://www.quadratec.com/advisor/jeep_oem_replacement_parts/steering/CJ_steering.php
The drag link goes to a hole in the steering knuckle arm and there is no hole in the tie rod for the drag link tie rod end. I think the YJ was the first jeep to use the inverted T.
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Here is a picture of the CJ steering:
http://www.quadratec.com/advisor/jeep_oem_replacement_parts/steering/CJ_steering.php
The drag link goes to a hole in the steering knuckle arm and there is no hole in the tie rod for the drag link tie rod end. I think the YJ was the first jeep to use the inverted T.
Ah, OK you're right! I forgot it has the D44 knuckles.
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I don't know anyone who has bought the "kit" We buy the springs at a local 4x4 shop - mine I actually got slightly used.
Springs, bushings, u-bolts, shocks, a set of boomerang type shackles and an SYE are the standard set of parts.
BDS springs are more expensive, but they don't break down and wear out.
What length of boomerang shackles are being used? Also, are you using a drop pitman arm? Thanks
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I don't know anyone who has bought the "kit" We buy the springs at a local 4x4 shop - mine I actually got slightly used.
Springs, bushings, u-bolts, shocks, a set of boomerang type shackles and an SYE are the standard set of parts.
BDS springs are more expensive, but they don't break down and wear out.
What length of boomerang shackles are being used? Also, are you using a drop pitman arm? Thanks
5/8" lift shackles are what I use. I run a stock pitman arm, a dropped pitman would reduce the bump steer but it's managable.
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Thanks, the BDS option is looking good. Still have a few more months to decide.
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One more question: If anyone is running the BDS springs with stock length shackles, do they have any issues with military wrap clearance? I'm concerned about this because on the BDS page they recommend extended shackles in order to clear the military wraps and I may wait a bit before getting extended shackles.
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One more question: If anyone is running the BDS springs with stock length shackles, do they have any issues with military wrap clearance? I'm concerned about this because on the BDS page they recommend extended shackles in order to clear the military wraps and I may wait a bit before getting extended shackles.
You can't run them with the stock shackles.
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Thanks. So it comes out to a min 4" of lift no matter what.
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i have bds with stock shakels.. its not good. ounce you remove the track bar and flex the springs they hit the frame right a way in the rear.
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So the spring itself is hitting (due to the big military wrap), not the shackle?
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ya the spring itself hits the frame.