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General Forums => The Mess Hall => Topic started by: neale_rs on March 14, 2008, 12:05:31 PM
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This is the usual wording in repair manuals about shimming:
"If there is a high-pitched whine after the engine fires and the key is returned to RUN, add full-length shims one at a time until the noise disappears."
Is this "high-pitched whine" they mention really loud or a low volume sound? My starter sounds like it is coasting to a stop after the engine fires, nothing alarming about the sound but it does make a low volume high pitch sound. Do you think it could need shimming?
Thanks
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Also, does the duration of the sound matter? In my case, it goes away almost right away, in maybe 1 or 2 seconds. If the starter had sounded like this originally I probably wouldn't worry about it, but this sound is new since the rebuild.
Thanks
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It sounds like it needs a shim to me.
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Thanks. I'll install a shim ASAP. Any idea where to get them? I was thinking of making one out of sheet metal of the proper gauge (28 from what I have investigated by internet).
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Thanks. I'll install a shim ASAP. Any idea where to get them? I was thinking of making one out of sheet metal of the proper gauge (28 from what I have investigated by internet).
Any auto parts store will sell packs of them in the "Help" section. $5 or so for maybe 10 shims of varying thickness. The GM ones fit the bolt pattern but need to be trimmed down - they are too wide.
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Thanks, I'll look for those.
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I would shim it, sounds like the bendix gear taking too long to retract, meaning it's too close to the flywheel.
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Thanks for the replies. I got the shims and will be putting them in as needed in the next few days.
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Here is an update:
Tried shimming with .015, .030, .045, .60 with no change in sound. Jumped up to .090 and got some clunking sounds when cranking, figured I went too far. Backed down to .075 and got the original sound again. This morning I tried .084 and got a very high pitch sound when cranking, the FSM says this means you have to remove shims. Since shimming does not seem to change this sound unless too much thickness is added, I am fairly convinced the sound is from the starter itself and not due to shimming. Finally left in a .060 shim just to make sure the clearance is not too tight.
Probably the rebuild is not as good as it could be. What would you recommend, run it as is as long as it works, take it back to the rebuilder, or buy another one and see if it is any better?
Thanks
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The thing with waiting is that you may be left stranded somewhere... If you can accept that, then run it till it sies, but if not, then I guess you need a new starter.
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I had a though about the sound coming from you starter it could be the sometimes normal sound that is common with "High Output Gear Reduction Starters"
I have use a later model GM one on my older Chevy truck for years and it has a small wine right after starting, later on when I installed a rebuilt one it had a louder wine. Now the starter is matched to my ring gear and required no shims, I even when to two separate GM mechanics to check the set up. So I guess the rebuild one was just a bit louder then the old one, as I have never had any problems with it for over a year now.
These "High Output Gear Reduction Starters" like the name states use gears to multiply the starter motors toque, and just like all gear transfer cases they have a bit of a wine that is normal for them.
Now I cant say for sure but form what you have said with trying shims without the sound disappearing, Im thinking the sound mite be normal for your starter.
Hope this helps you out, maybe just something to check on.
Anyways good luck with it :smile:
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Thanks for that reply, I think you are right. I decided to listen carefully to the starter on my 2003 Neon, another Chrysler product and it sounds the same! Now I feel good about the rebuild! Great to get this over with.
Thanks to everyone for the help.
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Hey guys I'm going to coat-tail on this thread. I have a 91 and have been getting an odd noise when attempting to start the Jeep. When I turn the key I get a high pitched noise (I think the starter is turning just not engaging on the flywheel) for about 10-15 seconds, then a little grinding noise, and then normal and fires up.
I replaced the starter last year and now it is doing this. Took it out last night and had the starter tested by Auto Zone and they said it is in great condition.
I really dont want to replace the flywheel and am hoping i missed something. There are no signs of damage to the flywheel from what I could see last night. Also there are no shims in it now. Last night when I took it out there was one small shim and I reinstalled it w/o one and the noise was the same.
Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks,
Nate
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The FSM says to remove shims when you get a high pitched noise while cranking but in your case this seems unlikely (since it was working fine for a while and now it has none). Mine had a grinding sound that was due to a bad "drive lever". It is very likely that the Autozone test is not very revealing and there is something wrong that only shows up under real starting load. Good luck.
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I think i am going to get some shims and try them tonight.
any tricks to getting the shims to stay on top of the starter while putting it back in?
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also, if you could help explain this "drive lever" to me, that would be appreciated. Are you saying when AutoZone tested it they could have missed this?
Thanks
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I think i am going to get some shims and try them tonight.
any tricks to getting the shims to stay on top of the starter while putting it back in?
You can slot one side of the shim if it didn't come that way. Take out the outside bolt and then, without taking the starter down, you can slide the slotted end on the loosened remaining bolt (engine side). Then put in the bolt you took out.
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also, if you could help explain this "drive lever" to me, that would be appreciated. Are you saying when AutoZone tested it they could have missed this?
Thanks
I don't know how Autozone tests these things but it could be they missed something. You have to take into account that a starter that was working well is not working normally now, so chances are there is something wrong with it. The drive lever pushes the drive gear toward the flywheel when the solenoid is energized. I don't know exactly what happened to mine but it was causing grinding sounds.
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also, if you could help explain this "drive lever" to me, that would be appreciated. Are you saying when AutoZone tested it they could have missed this?
Thanks
The "drive lever" is connected to the solenoid. It engages and disengages the starters drive gear/bendix.
(http://z.about.com/d/autorepair/1/0/T/A/42153059.gif)
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Thanks guys for the help! I ended up just buying a new starter and it is working fine w/o any shims. Went back to AutoZone and got my money back from their "lifetime warranty", after they they told me it is working "great". So all is well and thanks for the help!!