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General Forums => The Mess Hall => Topic started by: redneck97 on May 03, 2008, 08:44:42 PM
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I am looking to build up my tj. I want to make it capable of taking on challenging trails. Could I please get some advice on how to make my jeep hardcore. It is not a daily driver but I do drive it to the trails. So I need to be able to reach speeds of around 55mph. Please help I don't really know the limitations of the 2.5l.
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Just copy my build exactly...... :lol:
Welcome to the board...you'll get plenty of good advice.
:thumb:
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here is two differnt builds pening your budget, and they can be tweaked to keep it raod legal in your state.
Low budget build:
2" BB
1" BL
1" MML
33" MT's on new rims
Loc-Rites f/r
4.88 gears
this will make you a capable weekend wheeler that can still see some good street use and is a cheap build.
High budget build:
6" Long arm and wb stretch
Comp cut the rear
highline the front
38" Iroc's
Full width 44's f/r
ARB's f/r
alloy shafts f/r
5.88's gears
go fuel cell in the rear instead of the underneath tank
get some good highclearence bumpers
add a winch or two
you'll have a rig ready for anytrail
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Just copy my build exactly...... :lol:
Welcome to the board...you'll get plenty of good advice.
:thumb:
Moz does have a hell of a Jeep! Doubt you want to go that hard core if its going to be a DD. Whats your definition of hardcore? What do you expect to be able to do with the Jeep?
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A 4" lift and 33" tires will get you most places. A rear selectable locker would be the next big improvement. Selectable is much better. On a recent wheeling trip a guy with a rear locker was sliding sideways (downhill) which did not allow him to get past an obstacle that was not too bad with open diffs.
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Have you wheeled it at all? If not get some wheel time while it's stock. It'll make you a better driver and the Jeep will tell you what it wants. :thumb:
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My Jeep told me it wants a lift and bigger tires last weekend...
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My Jeep told me it wants a lift and bigger tires last weekend...
Mine said the same thing at Uwharrie last weekend. My wife doesn't agree :flush:
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Thanks for the input so far guys. I guess it would have helped to give you my specs. I have a 3" rusty's lift with a 1" bl. I am running 33" pro comp mt on 15x10 mickey thompson classics. I am running stock gears and no lockers. By hardcore I mean I would like to be able to take on most trails but yet still be able to drive around town. I would also have to be able to drive it at 55mph to get to most of the trails. I have not been to hard on the jeep so far just some easy trails at tellico but would like to tackle some of the harder stuff.
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In that case I would suggest a rear axle, regear, and locker(s)
Gearing would be at the top of the list, but I wouldn't waste money gearing a turdy five.
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Moz does have a hell of a Jeep! Doubt you want to go that hard core if its going to be a DD. Whats your definition of hardcore? What do you expect to be able to do with the Jeep?
mine's a DD... :puzzled:
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mine's a DD... :puzzled:
You just got yours so you don't count.
What's you're scale of 'Hardcore'? Some sites say if you're not running comp cut and 38's or larger, you're not hardcore. 35's have become the 33's of yesteryear.
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regear and lockers and the beastie will still do 55 or better and go darn near anywhere with some decent driving skill.
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Mine said the same thing at Uwharrie last weekend. My wife doesn't agree :flush:
My bank account dosen't agree :fitz:
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My bank account dosen't agree :fitz:
Mine's been telling me it wants 33"s BFG Mudders, a new rear axle, ARB Lockers, alloy shafts for the D30, new bumpers, new wheel for a matching spare (complete with the 33 BFG MT), a winch, and a supercharger. Unfotunately, the Jeep has not talked enough to the wife OR the bank account, so I am kind of stuck with what I have on right now until it does! :blbl:
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I drive mine around town, I wish I would have went lower on the gears for around town, but on the trail, it is very low, and works really well. I run the majority of the trails with very little to no troubles at all.
I am running 39" Iroks, I have a Dana 44 front with 513 gears and warn shafts, and CTM's. I am running a lockright locker.
The rear is a Dana 60 with 513 gears and molly shafts and a full spool.
I have installed an automatic trannie to the 4 cylinder.
It has an Atlas II 4.3
The wheelbase is at 105".
Shackle reversal.
Hydrolic assist steering.
This is just how mine is setup, and I love it, but in the following months, she will be going through some huge changes again.
It really depends on how much money and just how extreme you want to go, and what your opinion of hardcore is.
Just reading this thread, there is already some good advice on here.
Here is a shot of mine.
(http://edit.81x.com/Authors/kamikaze124/clayton.jpg)
(http://edit.81x.com/Authors/kamikaze124/DSCF1664.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v669/devin_d/Clayton%20March%202008/DSCF4188.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v669/devin_d/Clayton%20March%202008/DSCF4315.jpg)
Maybe this will give you some ideas. Then again... Maybe not. ???
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That is a jeep beast on par with moz's! His= hardcorest TJ, yours=hardcorest YJ, with them four cylinder powerplants!
That was just about the worst grammar I've used in my life, but exciting things do that to me.
I wonder what the four cylinder stroker build looks like (forgot who did it in the first place), I think there might be two now...
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Thanks for all the ideas guys. They have leaned me towards upgrading to 36" or 37" tires and a longarm system. I would like to add a winch and aftermarket bumpers. I guess the only thing I am really hung up on is what axles and their ratios. I know I will have to do away with the D35 but I was considering doing and 8.8 conversion in its place. But since the D30 will only gear to 4.88 will this be enough to pull all of this weight. And how low can an 8.8 be geared.
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Thanks for all the ideas guys. They have leaned me towards upgrading to 36" or 37" tires and a longarm system. I would like to add a winch and aftermarket bumpers. I guess the only thing I am really hung up on is what axles and their ratios. I know I will have to do away with the D35 but I was considering doing and 8.8 conversion in its place. But since the D30 will only gear to 4.88 will this be enough to pull all of this weight. And how low can an 8.8 be geared.
In my opinion, for that size tires, you will need AT LEAST 5.13... Even better if you can go lower!
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In my opinion, for that size tires, you will need AT LEAST 5.13... Even better if you can go lower!
I ran 35" SSR's on my jeep with 456 gears, and it was not enough. I think it would have been perfect at 513 gears with 35's.
But like you said, you will need something otherthan the Dana 30
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Thanks for all the ideas guys. They have leaned me towards upgrading to 36" or 37" tires and a longarm system. I would like to add a winch and aftermarket bumpers. I guess the only thing I am really hung up on is what axles and their ratios. I know I will have to do away with the D35 but I was considering doing and 8.8 conversion in its place. But since the D30 will only gear to 4.88 will this be enough to pull all of this weight. And how low can an 8.8 be geared.
For those tires, the rear D60 and front D60 or D44 are the way to go. The D30 will be marginal and won't get you the gearing you will need.
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Thanks for all the ideas guys. They have leaned me towards upgrading to 36" or 37" tires and a longarm system. I would like to add a winch and aftermarket bumpers. I guess the only thing I am really hung up on is what axles and their ratios. I know I will have to do away with the D35 but I was considering doing and 8.8 conversion in its place. But since the D30 will only gear to 4.88 will this be enough to pull all of this weight. And how low can an 8.8 be geared.
I guess we're using 1990's definition of 'hardcore'. :roflol: What was once considered hardcore isn't anymore. Your standard 1Ton axle swap isn't really that extreme, unless you're stretching it. Funny thing is if you has a 1T Jeep just a few years ago, it would have been hardcore. If you want to see what I mean, check out http://www.pirate4x4.com and look at what's in the hardcore forums and what's in the Non forums.
In any case, are 37's going to be the limit? Do the trails you plan on going on require some heavy throttle? 37's are considered the limit of the 8.8" and if you're going to be punishing them, you'll probably want to go bigger. A Ford 9", Dana 60 or the Corporate 14 Bolt. Out of those the Corporate 14B will probably be the cheapest. Actually, it might even be cheaper then the 8.8" since that seems to be the go-to axle choice over the D35c. The downside to the 14B is that it's HUGE, but you can shave off 2" fairly easily. The other thing is there is only one carrier with no gear splits so they use thick gears which stop at 5.13:1. Also, locker choices is a bit limited BUT you can get a Detroit for it. Then there's the pluses, it's huge all around. The shafts are huge and you can get them in full-floating configuration which is nice. Drums are HUGE and heavy but there are disc conversions if you care.
If you're on a budget and want a milder build then go with the 36-37's and swap out the Dana 35 with a Ford 8.8". This will allow you to have some money left over to lift and correct for an problems that might arise. You can keep the Dana 30 since strength wise, it's OK if you're not beating on it too badly. The only problem is gearing although when you're in 4Lo, it won't matter as much.
Want more, they the next step would be to go with some SJ Dana 44 axles. This would allow you to gear lower. Still with a heavy foot, and 37's you might want to go bigger. Although a friend has some D44's with alloy shafts, 5:13 gears and runs 38.5"'s with a 4to1 and only breaks U-joints on occasion. It's more about crawling out here. Not as much need for wheel speed.
One more, and you could go with some Dana 44, Ford 9", Dana 60, combo and get 3/4T status. Although I'd probably just go all out at that point and do a Dana 60/70 combo or Dana 60/14B.
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I classify mine as a "hardcore daily driver".... :twofingers:
...or as I call it on my other forum, "Baddest Daily Driven 4-Banger TJ Ever"
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Ok, here goes mine, not done yet but getting there:
97 TJ
Engine: 2.5L (going to be bored out to a 2.7L this summer)
Turbo City Bored 4.0L Throttle Body (TB)
Power Aid 4.0L TB Spacer
K&N Mounted to TB
Performance Distributors Demon Coil, Dist Cap and 8.8mm wires
High Flow Cat/Muffler and 2.5" Exhaust
5 speed with 231 and 4:1 installed
Front Axle D30 with 4.88 gears and lockright 2" wheel spacers
Rear Axle Ford 8.8 with 4.88 gears and mini spool 2" wheel spacers
6" lift currently installed
4" springs with 2" spacers
RS 5000 shocks (rear outboarded with notched frame)
Sky Jacker Lower arms with RE adjustable uppers
Purchased new RK long arm kit waiting to be installed
15x10 Chrome Mod rims (loads of rock rash)
35x12.5x15 Mickey Thompson Baja Claws
Toys by Troy rear swing away tire carrier
Poison Spyder front stinger bumper
Builly Built Rock Sliders
Poison Spyder Full Cage
http://www.azvirtualjeepclub.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=128&d=1206050794 (http://www.azvirtualjeepclub.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=128&d=1206050794)
http://www.azvirtualjeepclub.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=366&stc=1&d=1210104145 (http://www.azvirtualjeepclub.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=366&stc=1&d=1210104145)
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I classify mine as a "hardcore daily driver".... :twofingers:
...or as I call it on my other forum, "Baddest Daily Driven 4-Banger TJ Ever"
Any how bad did it hit your wallet? :stick:
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Still cheaper than a new stock Rubicon....and may still be with the new engine...maybe not.. ::)
...but will be much nicer and more capable for "around" the same price (as was the plan from the start).
You would be surprised..or not...how many people say, "Why didn't you just buy a new one for all the money you are pouring into this one?"
The answer...if I bought a new one (or even newer used one) I would probably still be doing most of the mods I've done already...probably would have been happier with a bigger engine...but will be even more happy with a V8!!
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You would be surprised..or not...how many people say, "Why didn't you just buy a new one for all the money you are pouring into this one?"
You forgot the most important answer; it would not look as cool!
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Still cheaper than a new stock Rubicon....and may still be with the new engine...maybe not.. ::)
...but will be much nicer and more capable for "around" the same price (as was the plan from the start).
You would be surprised..or not...how many people say, "Why didn't you just buy a new one for all the money you are pouring into this one?"
The answer...if I bought a new one (or even newer used one) I would probably still be doing most of the mods I've done already...probably would have been happier with a bigger engine...but will be even more happy with a V8!!
So what's the final count? I'm not looking for the beat around the bush answer. :stick:
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Jeffy???? :beers:
Is that the Jeffy that started 4 Bangers United way back when and was in Hawaii?
As for the thread, I agree buying a new one would only make you start the mod list over, it would still need a lift, bigger tires, and if you boght it as a rubi might not need the gears or 4:1, but the cage, the bumpers, winch etc... so is it really saving much? Not much if at all if you consider the financing of all those parts on the rubi.
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So what's the final count? I'm not looking for the beat around the bush answer. :stick:
I would guess around $25k total...including the original cost of the Jeep and backing out all of the money I made selling original parts.
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I would guess around $25k total...including the original cost of the Jeep and backing out all of the money I made selling original parts.
That's not too bad. I expected it to be over $10K. A friend of mine had two Dynatrac HP D60's and an Atlas and NV4500 installed and loves it. He's running 5.13's and was going to do an engine swap but hasn't. He's running a 4.0L though.
Been looking at axles again, too... Although I might just say screw it and head to the Rubicon as is.
My1stJeep: Yes, that is I.
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well...the Jeep was $8000, so $17k into it over the past two years. But, that was always the plan....get rid of the $40,000 car and spend it on a Jeep instead... :beers:
Seriously though, if I bought the Rubi like my wife wanted me to, I'd probably be over $40k already from changing the wheels, bumpers, armor, lift, etc.
The key thing for me was to pay cash for the Jeep and pay cash for all of the add-ons...nothing on the credit card. If I had the Rubi I would still probably be making monthly payments AND adding all this stuff on....but that's me. :bandit:
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As long as the Jeep does what you want and looks the way you want and most of all wheels the way you want then it was money very well spend.
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Or U can Copy Mind...:D :dance:
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I have a question about buildin the motor up, how do you get 2.7 out of an over- bore? The math just doesnt add up. From a 60 over I get 155 c.i., from a 4" bore (chevy pistons) I come up with 160c.i. Is there something else that I'm missing?
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I have read through this thread thinking you guys are rock crawlers. I like the look, ability of the rock crawler, but there are not many of those type of trails in Indiana. We have MUD trails. I am thinking a "hardcore" MUD thread is what I need :lol:
Will the Dana 35 and Dana 30 with tallest gears (4.56) help me spin the 33 in tire through the mud?
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I have read through this thread thinking you guys are rock crawlers. I like the look, ability of the rock crawler, but there are not many of those type of trails in Indiana. We have MUD trails. I am thinking a "hardcore" MUD thread is what I need :lol:
Will the Dana 35 and Dana 30 with tallest gears (4.56) help me spin the 33 in tire through the mud?
I'd go with 4.88's. 4.56's would work but you'll have better performance from 4.88's.
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I have a question about buildin the motor up, how do you get 2.7 out of an over- bore? The math just doesnt add up. From a 60 over I get 155 c.i., from a 4" bore (chevy pistons) I come up with 160c.i. Is there something else that I'm missing?
There was a guy on the mailinglist (Rex Lair, I think) who is in Jeepspeed (#1769 the Full Traction Truck). He stroked his 2.5L to 2.7L with some custom made parts. So, it can be done.
"Have been working on a storker kit for the 2.5 it looks like the
most we can get out of it is about 2.7 thats with a .30 bore. the
cost of the kit crank, rods, pistons about $1600.00. "
here's his email: rockket99@yahoo.com
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I have read through this thread thinking you guys are rock crawlers. I like the look, ability of the rock crawler, but there are not many of those type of trails in Indiana. We have MUD trails. I am thinking a "hardcore" MUD thread is what I need :lol:
Will the Dana 35 and Dana 30 with tallest gears (4.56) help me spin the 33 in tire through the mud?
I intend to go to 4.88 on my D30 and D35 combos, which is about equal to stock in performance with 33" tires...
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I too would go 4.88. Thats what I currently run but will be going lower as soon as I replace my front axle. You'll be able to spin mud just fine with those.
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thanks for the help guys. Do you think 4.88 gears will allow good accel in lower gears and about 3k RPM on the highway? That is what I had with the 28 inch factory tires.
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I'm running 4.88's and 35's (for the past month) and usually cruise around 70 mph on my daily highway ride....I think I'm just under 3,000 RPM.
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4.56 gears and 33" tires equal 4.88 gears and 35" tires same rpm at 70mph
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If I remember correctly, 70mph with 33" and 4.88 should be a tad under 3K RPM.
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You'll be fine. I have an auto and can cruise on the highway at 70 with my 4.88's. I am looking to go lower because in mud (especially on a hill) in 4-high I don't have enough torque and 4 low (even prior to 4:1) was to slow (at least for my liking) and my plan is to go 5.36 and use 4-H for mud and hills I need speed on and 4-L (Tera 4:1) for the rocks.
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You'll be fine. I have an auto and can cruise on the highway at 70 with my 4.88's. I am looking to go lower because in mud (especially on a hill) in 4-high I don't have enough torque and 4 low (even prior to 4:1) was to slow (at least for my liking) and my plan is to go 5.36 and use 4-H for mud and hills I need speed on and 4-L (Tera 4:1) for the rocks.
What tire size do you run?
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What tire size do you run?
33x10.50