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General Forums => The Mess Hall => Topic started by: chardrc on June 21, 2008, 07:24:54 PM
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I final drove my jeep for the first time in too long today and when i was driving my clutch pedal started out being loose at about the first inch of its travel (first inch didn't push on anything leaving the pedal to be able to bounce, it had been like this for a year). but when i was on my way home the pedal got drastically looser and the clutch is now doing all of this engagement and disengagement in the last, lets say 3 inches (out of about 6 inches of normal travel (gestimation)), and the rest of the travel of the clutch pedal isn't doing anything/ pushing on anything. im thinking that it is the clutch master cylinder. we had replaced the slave cylinder when i got it but never the master... i checked the fluid level and its rite at full so "no leaks". just thought i would post this and see what other people think.... hopefully this isn't too confusing.
thanks for any replies :bow:
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I final drove my jeep for the first time in too long today and when i was driving my clutch pedal started out being loose at about the first inch of its travel (first inch didn't push on anything leaving the pedal to be able to bounce, it had been like this for a year). but when i was on my way home the pedal got drastically looser and the clutch is now doing all of this engagement and disengagement in the last, lets say 3 inches (out of about 6 inches of normal travel (gestimation)), and the rest of the travel of the clutch pedal isn't doing anything/ pushing on anything. im thinking that it is the clutch master cylinder. we had replaced the slave cylinder when i got it but never the master... i checked the fluid level and its rite at full so "no leaks". just thought i would post this and see what other people think.... hopefully this isn't too confusing.
thanks for any replies :bow:
When my master let loose I was in the middle of a Jeep trail with no real turn around. When the clutch went the pedal was free to swing. Changing it is rather simple though.
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I was recently fighting with a similar problem;
The clutch would get progressively worse as I drove it until the point I couldn't even shift OUT of gear.
What it came down to was us replacing the master, to no avail, then cutting a hole in the floor (XJ's suck when it comes to space) to get the slave out. My dad didn't want to return it just yet (brand new; just replaced clutch too), so he went on a hunch;
He "Primed" the slave by pumping it a little while pouring hydro fluid in it while OFF the jeep, until it was full to the threads and there were no more bubbles, then we just put it back on and bled the system as normal. This time the bleeding was WAY easier and faster, and everything works now!
In short, take the slave off and "prime" it, then reinstall and bleed everything again before you blame other parts and get stuck when replacing those doesn't work...
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Mine was similar; I would put the pedal all the way down, and I still would not be able to get out of gear because the clutch was not engaging. Changed the master, slave and the line (it was a kit I found for a good price), and it worked kind of nice. If this happens to you on the trail, my only advice is to try pumping the clutch; I remember it kind of worked for a while when I did it (but then, as it got worse, not even pumping the clutch pedal would work!).
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Mine craped out on the way to church one sunday morning. It was going bad anyways. I only had pedal about an inch off the floor. It was hard to shift up or down. A centerforce clutch and new slave cylinder fixed the problem. AX5s are prone to poor slave cylinders, to bad you have to pull the tranny to fix it.
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thanks for the replies... i was gone all week at camp.. i think its got air in the line.. cuz i tried it today and it had pressure again... so ill have to bleed it i guess. o and the master was replaced shortly before i got the jeep because old owner was to lazy/ cheap to get the slave fixed.... hopefully i can get this fixed and my radio in tomorrow.. :weee:...
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ok so there is a line with an end like a greasesurk coming out of the slave cylinder (passenger side of trany).. would i be correct in assuming this is for bleeding the system.
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Yes you are correct! mite want to get you some help to pump the clutch and you bleed the valve. Just be carefull you dont twist the line in two when you open the bleeder valve. Good luck!
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ok im reviving this thread in hope that it can revive my plans of an offroading trip next weekend... i did bled my clutch a few weeks ago and it was better after than (the 1 or 2 times i drove it since then) but now today i was driving and my clutch pedal went completely dead. lucky i was only a block from my destination so i chugged it to there(running stop signs and stuff). what i found is mass amounts of brake fluid leaking from the bell housing and the bleeder line is really lose like if it came unscrewed inside or broke. i did drive it home and learned that the starter will start it in first gear :weee:.... so i have 2 questions. 1 is there a way to get to the bleeder line on the inside of the bell housing without pulling the motor or dropping the trany/tcase? and ( i know this will involve more than what i can get done in a week (maybe)) but how hard is it to convert to an external slave cylinder. id assume it would involve a new bell housing master and slave cylinder and some internal mechanisms like a clutch fork and throughout bearing.
any replies are appreciated :bow:as i need to make up my mined and get this thing running for next weekend.
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ok im reviving this thread in hope that it can revive my plans of an offroading trip next weekend... i did bled my clutch a few weeks ago and it was better after than (the 1 or 2 times i drove it since then) but now today i was driving and my clutch pedal went completely dead. lucky i was only a block from my destination so i chugged it to there(running stop signs and stuff). what i found is mass amounts of brake fluid leaking from the bell housing and the bleeder line is really lose like if it came unscrewed inside or broke. i did drive it home and learned that the starter will start it in first gear :weee:.... so i have 2 questions. 1 is there a way to get to the bleeder line on the inside of the bell housing without pulling the motor or dropping the trany/tcase? and ( i know this will involve more than what i can get done in a week (maybe)) but how hard is it to convert to an external slave cylinder. id assume it would involve a new bell housing master and slave cylinder and some internal mechanisms like a clutch fork and throughout bearing.
any replies are appreciated :bow:as i need to make up my mined and get this thing running for next weekend.
Suck it up and pull the trans out, your hydraulic bearing seals are toast. If you're in a hurry, then just replace it with a stock setup. Otherwise, you'll be spending a lot more money and time which you probably don't have, if you convert it over to an external setup.
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im currently pulling the motor... ya i know dropping the trany is easier.. but there is something about pulling the motor that i enjoy more.... and this way i can scrub the motor from the oil leakage... and ounce i pulled the fan shroud it looks like my radiator is on its last leg.. its missing half a row of fins adn the rest don't look so hot... at least i got to use the garage stall with the air conditioner. :beer:
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That doesn't sound like a whole lot of fun
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Seems like a lot of extra work with only a week to do it all in. Then you've got to make sure everything is in the right place. Lots of little work. I agree, doesn't sound like fun.
Chuck could have his trans out and back in several times over by the time you pull the engine. :lol:
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true... all the little things add up.. like the damn power steering pump that i still can't figure out how to get off even after looking at the parts catalog thing with exploded views of the mount.. its like a mount inside of a mount thing... and i don't really want to take off the lines so that i don't lose the fluid.. but it looks like that's what has to be done... and it wont take a week... if i wasn't putsing the motor would be out by now but im taking my time.
so what is included in these hydrolic bearing seals. like rear main seal on the motor? is there a seal in the front of the trany that will have to be replaced? ow and what about the clutch.. it was replaced when i did this the first time about 2.5 years ago. but will / did the brake fluid eat up the clutch?
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true... all the little things add up.. like the damn power steering pump that i still can't figure out how to get off even after looking at the parts catalog thing with exploded views of the mount.. its like a mount inside of a mount thing... and i don't really want to take off the lines so that i don't lose the fluid.. but it looks like that's what has to be done... and it wont take a week... if i wasn't putsing the motor would be out by now but im taking my time.
so what is included in these hydrolic bearing seals. like rear main seal on the motor? is there a seal in the front of the trany that will have to be replaced? ow and what about the clutch.. it was replaced when i did this the first time about 2.5 years ago. but will / did the brake fluid eat up the clutch?
You don't replace just the seals. You need a complete hydraulic bearing with lines. That will cost around $100 and look like this; (http://www.just4jeep.com/catalog/media/clutch_Control_Unit.gif)
If you have a lot of miles or fluid got on the clutch then it will need to be replaced. If you're lucky, the clutch will be dry and you can reuse it.
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ok that's what i had in mind of buying... that's what we got last time. oriely in chaska has one in stock for $87.99 so ill head down there tomorrow.... anyone have any tips for points to chain to on the motor for hoisting it out... im tempted to go around the manifold and the alternator bracket but there are metal vacuum hoses in the way of the manifold... we have done it before but don't remember how and our regular chain is missing.. time to regroup tomorrow and get it done.
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so now that my jeep is almost ready to run again... the problem was that the stupid cheap u clip type thing (over glorified bent piece of wire) that holds in the pipe for bleeding the system came loose allowing fluid to leak out of the almost disconnected pipe.. aka no parts needed but a good chunk of time.. ow and i had to get a new motor mount as my old one was ripped in ha. as for needing a new slave cylinder we thought it was unnecisary cuz the actual cylinder wasn't damaged and any seals in it are keeping the same fluid in as what may have hit the outside.
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well it fired up and the clutch bleed to be nice and ferm.. the idel is a little rougher than before but i think its because some of the vacuum lines where disturbed and need replacement. ( getting some new line for free tomorrow from a friend that works at the auto parts store)
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ok 2 more questions and i should be ready to go wheeling. 1 how do you adjust the power steering pump belt.. its non serpentine but none of the bolts have a slotted hole for adjustment... :puzzled:.... 2. this question should apply to all yj's but im not shure... the transmission is bolted to the "torque arm" which connects to the catalytic converter on passenger side. has that main trany mount in the middle of it, and has a stud with 2 bushings on the drivers side. my question is how tight together are those bushings soposed to get?.. mine where really loose and i tightened them but they are still loose.
http://www.greatlakesxj.com/tech/1988-1990_parts_catalog.pdf if you go to the 2.5l section to the page motor mount it gives an exploded view of what im talking about.
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About the belt. I haven't seen a '90 YJ but maybe the alternator can be moved if it on the same belt. For the torque arm, it is supposed to allow some movement, it's probably fine as you left it.
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its a different belt for the alternator... but it turns out that wasn't the problem... the main problem now is im 12 hours away from leaving and the clutch pedal is doing its loosing pressure trick again like the beginning of this thread... it seams to be time/ heat related.. aka it will be ok for 10 miles or so but then it slowly looses more and more pressure. but then you can turn it off for 5 minutes and the pedal will be as furm as ever.
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do you have an actual name for that bearing? or a part number?
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CRAP! my jeep is doing the same thing. when i push the cluch in and start it, it creeps forward and wont come out of gear unless i shut it down, then take it our of gear and restart it. what is that bearing unit called or where can i get it? do i need it for my 95? or just a slave cylinder? where are the slave cylinder and clutch master cylinder located? thanks!
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ok, its my slave cylinder. it has a small leak. how do i get the line off of it?
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to fix the slave cylinder you have to get inside the bell housing by either droping the trany or pulling the motor. i would suggest the trany route now that i did it the other way 2 times. the lines are connected the the slave cylinder by 2 over glorified staples. but you can also disconnect the drivers side line just outside of the bell housing where it goes from rubber to metal. good luck these things are annoying as hell...
i think i finally fixed my dieing as i drive pedal by bleeding the system when it was hot and dieing.
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i dont htink mine is liek that. on my 95 there are no lines running to the transmission other than one that runs to a black cylendrical thing that has a metal rod comming out or the end of it, and then i push the clutch, the rod extends and disengages the clutch.
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o ya.. yours is new enough for external slave cylinder... your lucky
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'94+ is lucky with the external clutch slave, good conversion for earlier jeeps if you ever have the tranny out.
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awesome. thats some gooood news. i need to get my axles figured out next. i know the front is stock, but im not sure on the rear. did they make a high pinion axle for the rear?
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wait, so how does my 86 have an external slave? There was a code somewhere on the jeep that made me think it might have had a t5 at some point.... but now it's an ax-5...
Still, I'm having the same random loss of pressure thing, when I get the an un-broken engine I'll get a new slave cylinder too...
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wait, so how does my 86 have an external slave? There was a code somewhere on the jeep that made me think it might have had a t5 at some point.... but now it's an ax-5...
Still, I'm having the same random loss of pressure thing, when I get the an un-broken engine I'll get a new slave cylinder too...
Because, most people forget or don't know the early XJ/MJ's had external slaves as well. That stopped in '87 when everything went internal. Before the TJ's, a common swap was to use an early XJ bellhousing to convert the YJ to an external setup.
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Because, most people forget or don't know the early XJ/MJ's had external slaves as well. That stopped in '87 when everything went internal. Before the TJ's, a common swap was to use an early XJ bellhousing to convert the YJ to an external setup.
Ha, wow... that seems kinda backwards! Either way, I'm having major troubles with pressure loss... to the point where it is unbearable! It seems completely random, too... no pattern to it at all... I'll replace the slave soon in any case...
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I think the reason for my problems was that where the line for bleeding the system leaves the bell housing, it looks like there should be a rubber grommet to hold the line in place. this lead to the lien vibrating loose and then when we bleed it it worsened the situation causing it to eventually totally come out of the slave cylinder. so now we have made a rubber grommet to hold it in place and after bleeding it it has worked great... now if i could find some time to find that vacuum leak...
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Mine is external, so I don't imagine it's anything like yours as far as mounting goes...
I thought for the longest time that mine had a vaccuum leak (and it did), so I replaced ALL of my vac lines... it worked for like two days, then the high idle came back... I started chasing sensors and it turned out to be my TPS and Idle control motor, but I couldn't find either for anything more than an arm and a leg and just about everything else was getting way old too... So I decided to start gathering parts for an MPI conversion... too much money later and lots and lots of parts; I still haven't started.
Totally not worth it IMO... I should have just bought a different jeep. I let way too many opportunities pass, but I'm too far in to turn back in any case; might as well finish and put this on my *never again* list!
Good luck to you!
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I have been daily driving the jeep for a week now and this problem is back. its a 15 mile out - 17 mile back commute and in the morning clutch pedal will be nice and firm through and through. but on the way home it will start off good but at the last traffic light (mile from home) it losses half its usable travel. still has enough to disengage the clutch but it is bringing back bad memories. The commute is mainly freeway driving except for 4 traffic lights at the beginning and end of the trip. :brick: :guns:.. its like clock work same every day. no loss of fluid. perhaps i need to bleed it again. :deadhorse: