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General Forums => The Mess Hall => Topic started by: Jeffy on October 29, 2005, 05:23:07 PM
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Now that Swink's got me thinking about the Dana 20, how do you run the speedometer? I'm sure it's a cable setup. Would a 231 unit drop in (1.75" hole)? What's the difference between the T and J shifters? Which is better? Also, will the D20 need an adapter ring? What years are the best? Do all the Fords have the same gearing? Anything else I've missed on?
Trying to decide of I should just go with a SS 231 or a D20. Right now, the cost of the D20 makes it appealing. but after it's all said and done which one would really cost less?
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Now that Swink's got me thinking about the Dana 20, how do you run the speedometer? I'm sure it's a cable setup. Would a 231 unit drop in (1.75" hole)? What's the difference between the T and J shifters? Which is better? Also, will the D20 need an adapter ring? What years are the best? Do all the Fords have the same gearing? Anything else I've missed on?
Trying to decide of I should just go with a SS 231 or a D20. Right now, the cost of the D20 makes it appealing. but after it's all said and done which one would really cost less?
Don't forget about the dual sticks it could have so doens't really matter of T or J shifter. Now, with the D20 and the 2.46 gear (IIRC), you could adapt a Toy case in front of that and get another low gear setup. I can't remember who makes the adapter, but that would be a nice setup.
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Well, if I get the D20, I'm going to mate it to a Klune V David so gearing isn't that big of a deal but lower is better. I was wondering what the difference between the sticks was. I have to see how easy or hard it is to change the input shaft on the Klune too. I'm still undecided if I want to stick with the AX-5 or not. Mine has worked fine so there isn't really a need to change it. So my drivetrain will hopefully be AX-5 to Klune V David (4:1) and either the 231-J or a D20. That will give me something like 38.77:1 in the drivetrain. I'm currently 4.56:1 but I'm planning on 5.38:1. I think for the front, I'm going to go with an empty TJ D44 housing and give it some matching 5.38's and a locker of some type. The best case would be to move my Detroit to the front and put a E-Trac on the rear. I'd need to use TJ shafts and swap the short shafts too. For a 203:1 combination low. I if I can get it to that stage the drivetrain will be done. The suspension is 95% done and only need shocks. Then it's onto the roll cage that needs to be finished. And maybe, I'll add A/C.
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No one have a D20?
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I have one. Scott Evans does too. but you already knew that.
Speaking of my D20, I got a little more work done on the shifter bracket last night. Another night or 2 like that and it'll be done and I'll pull it out for painting and snap some pictures
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Scraped the piece I was working on, it wasn't strong enough and I needed to shift the whole thing over to keep the linkage from binding
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(http://photobucket.com/albums/y118/yokomura/4BangerJP/d20/th_fde589e2.jpg) (http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/yokomura/4BangerJP/d20/fde589e2.jpg) (http://photobucket.com/albums/y118/yokomura/4BangerJP/d20/th_d097a0ed.jpg) (http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/yokomura/4BangerJP/d20/d097a0ed.jpg) (http://photobucket.com/albums/y118/yokomura/4BangerJP/d20/th_fc26b928.jpg) (http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/yokomura/4BangerJP/d20/fc26b928.jpg)
(http://photobucket.com/albums/y118/yokomura/4BangerJP/d20/th_f67bbaa4.jpg) (http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/yokomura/4BangerJP/d20/f67bbaa4.jpg) (http://photobucket.com/albums/y118/yokomura/4BangerJP/d20/th_8e0d3c91.jpg) (http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/yokomura/4BangerJP/d20/8e0d3c91.jpg) (http://photobucket.com/albums/y118/yokomura/4BangerJP/d20/th_f1e67749.jpg) (http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/yokomura/4BangerJP/d20/f1e67749.jpg)
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Now that Swink's got me thinking about the Dana 20, how do you run the speedometer? I'm sure it's a cable setup. Would a 231 unit drop in (1.75" hole)? What's the difference between the T and J shifters? Which is better? Also, will the D20 need an adapter ring? What years are the best? Do all the Fords have the same gearing? Anything else I've missed on?
Trying to decide of I should just go with a SS 231 or a D20. Right now, the cost of the D20 makes it appealing. but after it's all said and done which one would really cost less?
The Bronco D20 is a cable driven speedo. I use a adapter kit from Dakota Digital. The cost for both pieces is around $110 IIRC. The electronic box allows you to adjust your speedo by turn up or down some switches. The 231 unit will not drop in. The hole for the D20 is alot smaller.
The biggest difference between the T and the J is the gearing. (I always get them mixed up) The earlier units IIRC 71 or OLDER have the lower gearing 2.46. From what I have been told they are easier to twin stick. There units are the ones you want. The 72 and later ones have 2.34 gears and the shift pattern is not the same. All the internal stuff can be swapped back and forth from what I understand. I just put in a output shaft assy. from a 72 and my D20 is a 71.
I a not sure if a adapter for the D20 to the AX5 is avail. I have not checked into it.
As far as price it would depend on what you spend on a D20,rebuild kit,wether or not you want twin sticks, 32 spline ouput or the 300M output, speedo adapters.
The SS SYE would be a cheaper thing to do. You would need D-shaft work either way.
The biggest reason for me to do the D20 is the length. I wanted a short gear driven case to put behind the Klune. 18.5 inches from where the tranny bolts up to the middle of the rear yoke. I have had the setup for 2 years now and LOVE IT!!!
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I don't need it to mate to the AX-5. I think I'm going to go with a Klune V also.
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You will love it :D
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Did you move your engine forward? I forget. I'm thinking that leaving the engine where it is and doing a Klune and either a D20 or a super slim 231. I'm thinking that a TJ D44 front and regear to 5.38's would make it the cats ass in PJ's once I'm done. That's if I can get around to gathering the money and parts.
Any picts?
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Did you move your engine forward? I forget. I'm thinking that leaving the engine where it is and doing a Klune and either a D20 or a super slim 231. I'm thinking that a TJ D44 front and regear to 5.38's would make it the cats ass in PJ's once I'm done. That's if I can get around to gathering the money and parts.
Any picts?
I had it moved 4 inches forward. My plan was to leave it to save money since I did not do the work. But after looking at it I changed my mind. My rear shaft is 20 inches. The front shaft is the stock one 40 inches. So roughly you would be looking at around 16 inch rear shaft or so. Another advantage of moving the motor is better weight transfer, and it raises the motor about a inch or more depending how far forward you go.
5.38's would love to beable to get those. Someday...
As far as PICS I'll look to see what I have. I really need to get better at the posting PIC thing. John might have a shot or two still.
It's kinda hard to get good PICS. I need better lighting. I'll work on it.
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Here's your pics Scott
http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/ratherbejeeping/album?.dir=8a2c&.src=ph&store=&prodid=&.done=http%3a//photos.yahoo.com/ph//my_photos
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Did you move your engine forward? I forget. I'm thinking that leaving the engine where it is and doing a Klune and either a D20 or a super slim 231. I'm thinking that a TJ D44 front and regear to 5.38's would make it the cats ass in PJ's once I'm done. That's if I can get around to gathering the money and parts.
Any picts?
I thought long and hard about keeping the 231 since it was all tricked out with a Currie SYE (not the best) 4 to 1 and 2 lo. But I added up the cost to do the D20. It came to about 1K for all the D20 stuff I wanted/needed. So I sold my 231 for 1K.
I have a good friend that has the 231 behind a Klune. He has run it for about 2.5 years. He has not had any problems with the 231. He did switch it to 23 spline. He had the motor moved 6 inches.
So I think you would be in good shape either way. I wish for a bit deeper gears in the D20. The 2.46 is not really good for anything by itself. Well maybe for fire road type stuff. It is mostly used to double the Klune. But the twin sticks are fun. I get lots of questions about it. I did not have the interlocks removed from the front. So I can't do front digs. In the D20 you can Hi/Lo the case so I did not want the risk of trashing the case. I have lots of friends with D300 and Atlas II every now and again the do front digs but mostly showing off. I have not wished to have it yet. The 2low is awesome. I use it all the time. ( Detroits F&R)
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Here's your pics Scott
http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/ratherbejeeping/album?.dir=8a2c&.src=ph&store=&prodid=&.done=http%3a//photos.yahoo.com/ph//my_photos
Thanks! Got any of the Klune/D20??
Glad you could use the above shots to give you some ideas on your twin sticks.
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Picts of the drivetrain with the tranny, klune and transfer case would be nice to see.
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http://www.jbconversions.com/pages/products/np231/np231j_short_sye.html
Saw this and thought I would pass it along. If I was going to do a super short SYE this is the kit I would buy. Maybe do the 2lo kit and slap a Klune in front of it. No adapters needed. Hard to beat the price. By the time you piece together a D20 set up you would be spending a fair amount more.
IIRC my AA Klune-D20 adapter was $350. Klune was not making them at the time. They now have their own kit. From what I hear it's a bit cheaper and shorter.
I'll try and get a drivetrain PIC as soon as I can.
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http://www.jbconversions.com/pages/products/np231/np231j_short_sye.html
Saw this and thought I would pass it along. If I was going to do a super short SYE this is the kit I would buy. Maybe do the 2lo kit and slap a Klune in front of it. No adapters needed. Hard to beat the price. By the time you piece together a D20 set up you would be spending a fair amount more.
IIRC my AA Klune-D20 adapter was $350. Klune was not making them at the time. They now have their own kit. From what I hear it's a bit cheaper and shorter.
I'll try and get a drivetrain PIC as soon as I can.
See, that's what I'm wondering. (I'd go with the JB kit also.) I've left my transfer case along since I didn't know which way I wanted to go. I think I'm certain that I'll go with a Klune and not a Stak becase of cost. I don't really think I'd need 2wd but I guess it's something to add if I want to throw money at it. I was thinking about doing it cheaply. When I talked to the guy who build Jason's setup, he said I should be good with a HD output shaft alone. I could always add that stuff later from a donor NVG231-HD. (Chain & Sproket along with the 6 gear planetary.) I'd also want to swap to a 23 spline input I think.
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http://www.jbconversions.com/pages/products/np231/np231j_short_sye.html
Saw this and thought I would pass it along. If I was going to do a super short SYE this is the kit I would buy. Maybe do the 2lo kit and slap a Klune in front of it. No adapters needed. Hard to beat the price. By the time you piece together a D20 set up you would be spending a fair amount more.
IIRC my AA Klune-D20 adapter was $350. Klune was not making them at the time. They now have their own kit. From what I hear it's a bit cheaper and shorter.
I'll try and get a drivetrain PIC as soon as I can.
See, that's what I'm wondering. (I'd go with the JB kit also.) I've left my transfer case along since I didn't know which way I wanted to go. I think I'm certain that I'll go with a Klune and not a Stak becase of cost. I don't really think I'd need 2wd but I guess it's something to add if I want to throw money at it. I was thinking about doing it cheaply. When I talked to the guy who build Jason's setup, he said I should be good with a HD output shaft alone. I could always add that stuff later from a donor NVG231-HD. (Chain & Sproket along with the 6 gear planetary.) I'd also want to swap to a 23 spline input I think.
The JB shorty is a 32 spline plenty beefy. Depending on what locker you have or plan to have the 2lo comes in real handy. If you are going to do a selectable I don't think I would do the 2lo.
I wouldn't do the Stak either not enough choices in gearing.
I would swap to the 23 spline input. IIRC brand new inputs are around $100. Cheaper if you find a used front half case from someone who did the Tera 4.0. My buddy did not do the HD chain and is running the stock 5 gear set. So far so good. Like you said you could upgrade later. It is kind of a bitch to get the 231 off the back of the Klune due to the little windows that the studs and nuts are, but it's doable.
If you are on a tight budget then keeping the 231 will be the cheapest route.
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Course if you do the Klune you have 2LO without having to put it in the t-case anyway. Just leave the 231 in 2HI and engage the Klune.
See, you already saved $200 with the Klune!!!!!!
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That's another consideraton. I don't plan on anything hardcore. Most likely the Rubicon and surrounding trails. I'd probably be geared too low with both boxes in Lo range. Only problem with one of those super slim kits, is that they use a megnetic pick-up. This can't be calibrated at the sender. So that means I'll need to get a signal modifier if I want it to read correct. Or I could just leave it and recalibrate the speedometer. :lol:
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With the low gears, added or installed, at the t-case point of the drivetrain, isn't anyone nervous with the D35 axle shafts? Just the basic 4.0l and stock drivetrain has shredded many D35 shafts.
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I don't think any of us three have D35's. :wink:
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Well, ok. Probably not you, but then other readers enjoying this topic.
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I believe FourbangerYJ has a 8.8 and ratherbejeeping has a 8.25" Toy. I've got a D44. We sorta know each others rigs from the 4Banger list so axles weren't mentioned.
It's still good to ask about the D35 since others are probably reading this.
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Close, Scott's got the D44
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Someone's got a 8.8" though right?
Check out the other thread on the 231 doubler, too.
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I was thinking on doing the D20, Klune set up myself. I figure with the kind of wheeling I do here in KY and surrounding states, the klune will prolly be enough without having to 4:1 the t-case. Plus I think I would be way too low if both were engaged, and don't think I'll have a need for that.
I plan on doing an AX-15 swap down the road a little, and will probably just do all of this at once. I'm surprised I haven't seen any discussion at all on inertia rings in this forum, maybe just haven't found them yet. That is another mod I got planned for the near future.
Matt
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Close, Scott's got the D44
I put in the Alloy USA Chromoshafts last winter. Wanted a little more beef just in case. The stock D44 shafts were just fine. I am keeping them as spares.
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I was thinking on doing the D20, Klune set up myself. I figure with the kind of wheeling I do here in KY and surrounding states, the klune will prolly be enough without having to 4:1 the t-case. Plus I think I would be way too low if both were engaged, and don't think I'll have a need for that.
I plan on doing an AX-15 swap down the road a little, and will probably just do all of this at once. I'm surprised I haven't seen any discussion at all on inertia rings in this forum, maybe just haven't found them yet. That is another mod I got planned for the near future.
Matt
There are some Tera 3:15 gears for the D20. Around $800 IIRC. O'brien makes some 4.86 gears for the D20 but they are pricey at near $1600.
I wanted to keep a split between gears. So I kept the 2.46 in the D20 and went with the 4 to 1 in the Klune. I must admit the 2.46 gears don't get use much by themselves. But they make a great doubler for the Klune. The great thing about this set up is the amount of gear choices you get. Weather it be the D20 or 231. It would be way to low if both boxes had 4 to1 gearing.
With super low gearing I have not found a need for the inertia ring. I have stalled the motor in lo-lo 2nd. (115 to 1)But I can't stall the motor in lo-lo 1st. (188 to 1) On dry pavement in 2WD lo-lo 1st I can stand on the brakes and lock the front tires and it keeps on ideling along. I am running 35's MT/R's. When the time comes for a new clutch I might put one in.
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I may end up doing the inertia ring sooner than later. I'm like you though, I hate to drop the tranny without having any other reason than sticking on the inertia ring.
Matt