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General Forums => The Mess Hall => Topic started by: jfrabat on August 31, 2008, 05:20:23 AM
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OK, so I got the new gears (4.88) installed along with ARB lockers and alloy axles. But now there is a whine when accelarating from 35 to 40 mph. It only does it at this speed, and i have only driven about 20 miles so far. Is this normal, and if so, will it eventually go away?
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Does it go away when you let off the gas?
Have you rechecked the gear lube, and what kind of gear lube did you use?
What is the top speed you were you going in those 20 miles? - gear break in is important.
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If you just had them installed, take it back. They should have test drove it, but I'm thinking they didn't bother.
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Does it go away when you let off the gas?
Have you rechecked the gear lube, and what kind of gear lube did you use?
What is the top speed you were you going in those 20 miles? - gear break in is important.
Kept it under 45mph the entire way as instructed. And yes, the whine goes away when I get off the gas; it's only showing when under load. I dont know what lube they put in, but I am arranging to take it back (at least these guys warranty their work!).
If you just had them installed, take it back. They should have test drove it, but I'm thinking they didn't bother.
I am thinking the same thing...
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Also depends on the brand of the gears some whine, it says so right on their website. If they used spicer or yukon gears it should be quiet from the get go take it back and have them re do it
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Noise that stops when you let off the gas can also be a bearing, or you might want to check your pinion nut and make sure it hasn't come loose.
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Bad or loose pinion bearings will make noise opposite from gear noise I.E it gets worse when coasting but diminishes under load. If all was set up right the diffs should be quiet.
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What break-in procedure did you follow?
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Bad or loose pinion bearings will make noise opposite from gear noise I.E it gets worse when coasting but diminishes under load. If all was set up right the diffs should be quiet.
Depends. The inner pinion bearing will make more noise under power when it goes bad, the outter will make more noise on coast.
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Also depends on the brand of the gears some whine, it says so right on their website. If they used spicer or yukon gears it should be quiet from the get go take it back and have them re do it
It's Genuine Gear (G2) suppossedly, but I have to reconfirm that...
Also depends on the brand of the gears some whine, it says so right on their website. If they used spicer or yukon gears it should be quiet from the get go take it back and have them re do it
Well, the noise goes away when I let off the gas; it's the more load the jeep is in, the more noise.
Bad or loose pinion bearings will make noise opposite from gear noise I.E it gets worse when coasting but diminishes under load. If all was set up right the diffs should be quiet.
Noise that stops when you let off the gas can also be a bearing, or you might want to check your pinion nut and make sure it hasn't come loose.
The parts list included a master overhaul kit, which comes with Timken Bearings, National seals, complete shim kit, crush sleeve (if Applicable), ring gear bolts, cover gasket and gear marking compound, so bearings should be new as well...
What break-in procedure did you follow?
The guys told me that they had done the basic break in (with the Jerep in gear both forward and reverse while up on the stand) and then that I had to drive 15 to 20 miles while keeping it under 40 mph and then let cool completely.
I drove 20 miles home (not using the highway) at 40 mph most of the way, and left it there while I went on a business trip (for a week). Today, I took it out for another 15 miles under 40 mph and will let it sit unitl tomorrow. I will call them tomorrow to pick the Jeep up (they have to move the swtiches from the lockers anyway because they did a real poor job of placement).
In any case, I still think the best solution is to have them check their own work. I mean, this work is under warranty, so I can bug them as much as I feel like it until it is up to my standards, and I think I will just do that. But thanks to all for the replies!
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Your two short drives with cooling period in between is what I would have done to break them in, nothing wrong there. Let us know what they find.
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I called the shop, and will be dropping the Jeep off the week after next (since I will be out of town then). Next week I will mostly be out of town (depending on the hurricane), but I dont have time to drop the Jeep off (plus, there is a hurricane coming, so I might need the Jeep afterwards).
Your two short drives with cooling period in between is what I would have done to break them in, nothing wrong there. Let us know what they find.
As for the drives, I just realized that both distance and speed were lower than I estimated, because the speedo gear was off. But still, the drives should have been about 15 miles for the first, and 10 for the second at speeds of less than 40mph, which should be enough anyway.
Since I was feeling some vibration when driving at speeds (65~70mph) as well, I decided to take out the front drive shaft , as it is my understanding that on YJ's it is not balanced (I'll have it balanced, but have not gotten around to it yet), and I thought that was the source of the vibration, but I was wrong, as the vibration is still there, so it must be something on the front axle (I know it is the front axle because I can feel the vibration through the steering wheel). The vibration is really not that bad (it is very slight), but you can defenetly feel it at speeds above 65 mph (you cannot feel it below that).
However, while under the Jeep, I noticed 3 other things that worry me a little, and I want to ask you guys for your opinion:
1. There was a small leak of fluid on the steering knuckles, so it seems that they did not install the axle correctly; is this something I should worry about for the next week while I take the Jeep back? I drive about 20 miles per weekday and none on the weekend (at least until I get the Jeep fixed)...
2. I noticed a very slight fluid leak from the TC (I think it is comiung from the fill hole, but I am not sure; I will check the torque on the plug tomorrow, as I cant today). Could the front axle rotating all the time cause any issues in the TC? I know the stock YJ's axle does not rotate if not in 4WD, but with the alloy axle, since I did away with the axle disconnect, the axle now rotates all the time. But IIRC, TJ's use the same NV231 and have axles that rotate all the time, right?
3. Nothing to do with the work done, but I also noticed some oil around the bell housing; putting 2 and 2 together, in the mornings, after the Jeep has been sitting for some time, I can feel the clutch slip for the first couple of time I get in gear (2 or 3 times). Does this mean that I have a leak on the seal, and if so, do I need to take down the tranny to fix it?
Felipe
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The front driveshaft does not turn if you don't have a locker ON or 4WD engaged.
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The front driveshaft does not turn if you don't have a locker ON or 4WD engaged.
It certainly does if you have eliminated the vac disconnect like he has.
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They probably messed up your axle seals during the insatallation or did not install the seal for the passenger side correctly. When my gears were put in they messed up the passenger side and it all had to come apart again to install a new one. Did both just to avoid similar work soon after.
Based on what I have read having the front shaft turning all the time usually does not cause any problems.
Number three does sound like you have a rear main seal leak, especially if the clutch is slipping. Usually it is best to make sure it isn't just oil dripping from the back of the valve cover.
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It certainly does if you have eliminated the vac disconnect like he has.
Ah, missed that part... :brick:
Then it will turn... Having the shaft turn all the time sometimes causes the pinion seal to weep if it's old. BUT if you had gears done then it shouldn't weep.
Axle seals can get damaged if they're not careful when pulling or installing the shafts. ALSO, are these TJ shaft or an actual conversion kit? If they're just TJ shafts then you'll need to replace the outer seals anyway as the TJ shaft is thinner where teh seal is on the YJ so the seal doesn't work. Swapping the seals isn't a big deal although everything has to come out.
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a rear main seal leak generaly does not make the clutch slip however the front seal of the trans leaking does is this stuff black? if need be put some card board under the engine and try to figure out if its brake fluid, motor oil or gear oil. For your gear whine if the gears where set correctly they should not whine from day one period.
As for the oil out of the axle tube either it came out when they pulled the axle shaft out or the seal leaks, I had my axle shafts out twice in front and the seals still do not leak. So there is a pretty good change they damaged one of the seals
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The front driveshaft does not turn if you don't have a locker ON or 4WD engaged.
It certainly does if you have eliminated the vac disconnect like he has.
Like OldJeep said, I eliminated the vacuum servo that disconnects the axle and installed a solid axle for the passanger side... So mine spins all the time now... (well, right now the front DS is off, so it is not getting to the TC).
They probably messed up your axle seals during the insatallation or did not install the seal for the passenger side correctly. When my gears were put in they messed up the passenger side and it all had to come apart again to install a new one. Did both just to avoid similar work soon after.
That is what I am thinking; the good thing is that they are being cool about the whole thing, and will take the whole thing apart to inspect, and said that if any part needs to be replaced, they will take care of that as well...
Based on what I have read having the front shaft turning all the time usually does not cause any problems.
I certainly hope so! Because there is no avoiding it...
Number three does sound like you have a rear main seal leak, especially if the clutch is slipping. Usually it is best to make sure it isn't just oil dripping from the back of the valve cover.
Funny you mentioned this; I had noticed some oil in the pulleys some time back, and I have not gotten around to fixing it, so it is possible it is coming from the valve cover... I'll takle that first before dropping trannys and such!
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UPDATE: I finally had time to take the Jeep back to the shop, and it seems that the bearing in the kit (I bought a complete axle kit that included the seals, alloy shafts, ARB lockers, ring and pinion, and basically everything else inside the axle) was bad, and it got damaged, allowing some play in the pinion. This caused not only the whine, but also the vibration at high-speed (65+ mph). The bearing looked burned off for some reason.
The good news is that the shop honored the warranty, and put in a new bearing, as well as new ring and pinion (because of the play, the old ones were done for). Now the Jeep has no noise (well, none that it did not have before anyway!).
As for the front axle, they also replaced the front seals, and now there is no leak. So all is good now. Finally got stronger axles (yeah, I know, I still got a D35, but I should be OK even when the 33's go in, as I will not see that many rocks; mostly it will be mud) and lockers working properly. I only need to get around to changing the U-Joints and reinstalling the front axle (will probably do so this weekend) and I am done with the drive trail!
Felipe
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OK, so there was no sound or vibrations coming from the drivetrain until I put in the front DS. Now I got a slight vibration at high-speed. My first thought was that the fron t DS was not balanced, but I did see a weight on it (although it may still be out of balance). My original idea was to get it balanced, but since I saw the weight, I figured I'd try it first. Now my second issue is that the only driveline shop I have found has really bad hours, so it will be a pain to get the Jeep (or the front DS) to them without taking a day of vacation, but I'll try taht as well. Now, my questions are as follow:
1. Do you think part of the problem could be coming from the angles being out of whack on the front DS between the pinion and TC?
2. Is it possible for the vibration to be coming from the front output of the TC? Maybe a bad bearing or something? In the original setup, the YJ's fron DS does not spin until in 4WD, but with the new axle, the front DS spins all the time regardless of the TC position...
3. I changed the U-Joints to new U-Joints just to be sure they are good (since they will be rotating all the time now). I also got greasable U-Joints, and I was wondering if these (since they have the needle fitting on one side) could be what is causing the DS to be out of balance?
4. Could this be the same issue I had on the rear pinion bearing?
Anyway, I wait for your opinons and comments...
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The front driveshafts on a YJ aren't balanced. There may be a wight on there to help a little but really the front driveshaft only turns when in 4WD and they say to keep teh speeds down to 55MPH and only when traction is less them optimal.
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I had a rythmic vib at higher speeds. Like from 55-70MPH. The faster I went the faster the vib rythem would be. It stopped when I change the front D-shaft for one that have CV joint on it, plus it was balanced. If I could have keep the old front shaft I would have ,but I needed to swap if because of my front pinion angle.
I would say get the front D-shaft balanced and see what happens.
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Yeah, I guess i'll have to get it balanced. Maybe tomorrow I'll take a couple of hours off and do it.
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Well, I got a chance today to take the shaft to the driveline shop, and it was not balance; the shaft was bent. They did not have the right size tube to make one, so I decided to order a Woody shaft for the front (nothing special, just their basic shaft). I should be good to go after this! Unfortunately, it arrives the week after thanksgiving, so I am not sure I will be able to put it in this year (I still got a couple of business trips to make, so I will not be home all that often). At least it is good to know what the problem is!