4bangerjp.com
General Forums => The Mess Hall => Topic started by: jeepfourlow on November 10, 2005, 06:48:09 PM
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well i dont feel like making a new thread so im hijacking this one, i recently read the review on the performance distributors firepower ignition kit and and interested in getting it, however i want some more feedback on it. it seems its cheaper to buy all the parts serperately then to but the kit, whats up with that?
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http://www.4bangerjp.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=29
I suspect you're looking at the Qtech catalog. They just screwed up the pricing.
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http://www.4bangerjp.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=29
I suspect you're looking at the Qtech catalog. They just screwed up the pricing.
yeah its also that way on 4wd.com yeah i read that review on the kit but it seems you replaced the wires with msd?
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No, I'm using the PD Kit.
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where can i get one of these kits for a 00 the 4wd hardware site only has them up to 99 and i cant find them at all on the performance distributors site
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I don't see why they only go up to 1999. The same ignition system was used till the end. Personally, they are a nitch product and it's probably better to call PD and talk to them. They will hopefully know more about what you'll need. They have no updated their website in a while.
I did not have to deal with ordering a kit since I helped R&D it. They jsut sent me the parts and I made recomendations and they would fix them.
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Just got the 4wd.com print catalog and the 4 cyl PD Firepower kit is listed there. Can also buy components of it seperately, ie. wires, distributor cap, coil.
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And this kit will not work pre-91 motors?
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It depends on your coil. If you have the standard cylinderical coil then no. Although you might be able to make it work. The spark plug wilres will work and there isn't anything really special with the dist. cap and rotor.
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It depends on your coil. If you have the standard cylinderical coil then no. Although you might be able to make it work. The spark plug wilres will work and there isn't anything really special with the dist. cap and rotor.
It is possible upgrade the coil as well? If yes, with what (P/N) do you suggest?
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Well, what coil are you running now. It's possible to switch. I've seen later YJ's use the older style so it would be jsut as easily to swap an older ones to a newer coil. But if you're already running the newer coil then you won't have to swap.
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I've got a stock 89 YJ coil - if I get a aftermarket coil for a newer YJ (91+) I'll be able to utilize this PD kit?
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What does the stock coil look like?
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I've been wondering about this myself. My coil is a square unit mounted on the firewall. Like this one
(http://www.partsamerica.com/product_images/AAP/GPS/U0-UM/UF50.jpg)
It mounts to something like this...
(http://www.partsamerica.com/product_images/img/sta/wa8519.jpg)
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What are the 3 plugs for?
A MPFI coil pack looks like this;
(http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/yokomura/4BangerJP/ignition/DSCN3878.jpg)
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Great, I swapped to the Cherokee at lunch. As I recall only one or two of the plugs are used, But I'll check on it tonight.
The second piece is reffered to as an ignition module.
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So take one from a newer 2.5L and you can use the PD kit is what we've figured here... or find one that would be an aftermarket upgrade from the 91+ coil and you can use the PD kit.
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Well, all you'd need to do is get a plug from a MPFI then wire in the power and the trigger wire to the plug.
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OK I checked the wiring harness. One of the three wire plugs is using two wires and the center plug is using one wire. The coil has two 1/4 inch round posts that fit into the ignition module. The coil is held in place with two screws on either corner.
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Hmmm, I wonder how you'd convert that over to a cylinderical coil.
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I'm really considering going with this set up, prices seem good except for the plug wires, $80!? there has to be a cheaper solution than this. I have a hard time paying $20 for each wire. MSD's have to be cheaper and just as good don't they? Cap, rotor and coil seem reasonable though. Any suggestions on wires?
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I'm really considering going with this set up, prices seem good except for the plug wires, $80!? there has to be a cheaper solution than this. I have a hard time paying $20 for each wire. MSD's have to be cheaper and just as good don't they? Cap, rotor and coil seem reasonable though. Any suggestions on wires?
I'm having a hard time dealing with the price of the wires aswell, you can get a set of 8.5 msd v8 wires for the same and you get basicaly an extra set. The coil is another place thats tough to deal out when you can geet a msd or accel coil for under 40 bucks.
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Problem with those make your own kits is that they don't have all of the ends you usually need. Although you can reuse the old boots if you don't get wire that's too thick.
I like the Livewires though. The cables are very thick with a silicone outer liner and then an added abrasion layer on top. The boots are nice and seal against the spark plugs. They are the right angle and depth to reach the spark plugs without resting against the block. On a 2.5L The first plug is a 45* with a long reach. The other 3 are straight.
BTW: I ran MSD's from a V8 kit before. We ran out of the boots for the second set and had to reuse the stock ones. Lockily, they were only 8.0mm. Anything thicker and it would be a PITA to get them over the wires.
Also, consider this; how often do you change plug wires. Performance wires are better insulated and last longer then OEM's.
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I've been using accel kits and msd kits for about 15 years now and never have had to re use a stock boot or end, ya just need to make sure u get the right set.
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I've been using accel kits and msd kits for about 15 years now and never have had to re use a stock boot or end, ya just need to make sure u get the right set.
We're talking about getting a V8 kit and making two sets.
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U do end up short on a coil wire but with as many projects I have(5 AMXs ,4 jeeps, a my chevy tow rig, and everyone elses crap) I always end up with extra stuff. anyways for 4 bucks you can geta couple exxtra ends.
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hey Jeffy, when you were testing this did you fool around with different plugs to find the best one? maybe a step colder?
I think I'm going to go with the Accel coil ($40) and 8.5mm wires ($32) and just use PD's Cap and rotor. I think it's a little shady that PD doesn't tell you the voltage of their coil, unless I missed it, but the Accel is 42k volts which should be plenty. Just gotta figure out which plugs to use.
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Update- I just installed the PD Jeep 2.5L Firepower kit over the weekend 12/16/06. I ordered it via the web form at their website and it arrived in 3-4 days. It came very efficiently packed in a small box with the Screamin Demon coil, cap, rotor, yellow wires and billet wire holders. The black cap and rotor looked very close to the OEM unit, if not identical. I bought 4 new Autolite plugs and gapped them to .065. Had to use 4 blades on the feeler gauge to accomplish this large a gap, not quite a quarter thickness but easily a dime. This is a large gap compared to my VW Beetle at .025.
Routing the wires was a bit of a mystery since it came with no picture or instructions. I ended up using only one of the billet wire holders on the longer plug wires #3 and #4. It started up first try though. Also I degreased the engine prior to the install, but even so, it was hard to keep the yellow plug wires clean from the engine grease. I would order black next time, easier to keep them clean. The whole install took under 2 hrs for a rusty vw bug shade tree mechanic (it's easy to take the engines out...) :D
Driving impressions- Big, noticeable improvement overall with a stock 4.10 gears and 5 spd drivetrain running 31"s. Prior to the upgrade the Jeep was loosing power rapidly on even small grades on the highway and downshifting to 4th was very common, loosing speed and RPM's rapidly. Acceleration was slow and deceleration on almost any hill was the norm.
After the PD kit install it reminded me of driving with the stock 225's that came on the jeep when I first got it! :lol: Zippy acceleration and enough power to use 5 gear and cruise at 75 MPH. Able to rev higher above 4K RPM’s smoothly in the lower gears. It literally put me back in the passing lane (at least for 20-30 seconds.) No longer a need to regrear with the 31's. It can even climb most hills in 5th and one really steep and long hill near my house where the speed limit is 45MPH it can make it up in 4th where it required a donshift to 3rd before. Backroad drivability and power throughout the gears has noticeably improved as well.
Jeffy- thanks for recommending this kit. I probably would have seen a slight improvement from replacing with stock components, since the date stamp on my old rotor was from January 2004. But so far I think this upgrade was worth the money, it certainly improved the drivability of my Jeep. I have not done the mileage yet, but I know it has improved judging by how far I got on the 3/4 tank of gas I have been burning.
Now I'm contemplating my next upgrade. Considering a flex fan replacement, or throttle body spacer vs a 4.0 TB upgrade or even the injector thread for the Ford mustang/crown vic yellow injectors I read a while back. That thread kind of died, does anyone have any updates on longer term testing of the ford injectors in a YJ or TJ ? Are any of you guys still running them and would you recommend it? I'm trying to improve my mileage if possible. Any comments or info appreciated.
Ciao! Ted
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Now add a Jet chip and you'll be chirpin your tires!
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No longer a need to regear with the 31's.
Sounds like I am going to do one of these PD systems when I get around to new tires/wheels. Seems pretty cost-effective versus what you'll spend for regearing.
You should buy the Autolite Iridium XP plugs and gap those at .065 (just put some tape on your gapping tool so you don't scuff/damage the electrodes). You'll like the results for less than $40. I like them and I still have a relatively stock ignition system :D
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(http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r263/JeeperTJ/100_0065.jpg)
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I installed the PD kit on mine about two months ago, and it does make a noticable difference. I think it's a bit pricey for what you get, but no real complaints. All-in-all tho, good quality stuff, I'm happy with it, and I got the red wires and a big decal to stick under the hood so it looks very cool!
But, if I was ever posessed by demons, became delusional, had a psychotic episode and in the midst of it decided to by a 4-banger again... I would do it a bit differently.
I would probably do it more in a DIY fashion. Maybe a blaster coil and adapt it to the wiring, make the plug wires myself, the PD cap and rotor are just a better than stock set-up, so, with some effort and shopping around I could duplicate it pretty well and probably save some bucks.
Btw, I have a 2001 2.5 and I had to get the 31728-AH adapter for the coil, with that, the whole thing plugged right in.
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Now add a Jet chip and you'll be chirpin your tires!
BULLCHIT! :D
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I have a 2001 2.5 and I had to get the 31728-AH adapter for the coil, with that, the whole thing plugged right in.
Me too on my 1999 2.5L, you can see the grey adapter plug with the green wire w/black stipe in the picture. $23 to keep you from having to cut and splice the wires...Ka Ching!
I thought the PD was a little pricy as well at 189 plus adatper for the 4 cyl, but I'm happy with it overall. The Jet chip is also little more than I'm willing to spend at 309.95 for a Stage 1. I think I'll pass or try to find one on ebay in the $150 or less range...If you look at the hp and torque curve on the jetchip website, it looks like it would make a difference.
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I ordered a PD setup, received most of it yesterday and spent some time installing it. Wires were ordered seperately and haven't shown yet, so I am using these 8.5mm Accel (?) performance wires I have
I'm using the Autolite Iridium XP plugs which are pregapped at .035. Most of the platinum, silver, & iridium plug manufacturers seem to discourage buyers from regapping these plugs - probably because you might end up dinging up the electrodes while regapping and potentially screwing up the long plug life. Nevertheless, I went ahead and regapped my iridium plugs to .065 as PD suggests and didn't look like I had any plug damage problems doing so.
Just using the brass terminal cap + new rotor and the PD screaming Demon coil + the .065 iridium plugs I already had made for a very nice performance improvement. I admit, my old cap and rotor were "shot." But the Jeep's City/Highway drivability, now, is good enough to where I probably won't mess with any future performance improvments, so long as I am on 29 or 31 tires. If I go 33s, then I'll probably go 4.88s rather than mess with the engine any more.
Tuned (and geared) properly, the 4banger Jp ain't bad, despite what the haters say.
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.065 Gap is what PD recommeds? That is almost double the gap.. umm..
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hotter sprak double the gap make sence
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.065 Gap is what PD recommeds? That is almost double the gap.. umm..
Yes, PD recommends a gap of .065". I'm running the prototype kit and it's been fine ever since I installed it.
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I'm running just the PD coil with a set of accel super stock wires. One of the best upgrades I've made so far. The PD wires were a bit to much $$ for me so I just used the accels since I had them sitting around as spares from a 351W build I did a while back. The accels worked just fine for me.
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I wonder if it is worth it for me to do it.. ummm...
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I've been running this PDI ignition setup with iridium plugs for about the last 6 months. One of the things I probably should have payed closer attention to is the spacing of the LiveWires.
I had done the zip tie criss-cross setup in a couple of locations to keep the wires apart, but, as of last night, I noticed that the wires were still touching in a couple of spots and one was hitting the metal accessory mount for the AC.
Today I spent 5 minutes to seperate in 4 differnet locations with overlapped zip ties. Now there's no contact, no touching metal etc. And the Jeep is driving like I was expecting after I bought the PDI setup: better low-end, better throttle response and none of the off-idle miss I had before.
PDI LiveWires are a decent-quality product. I dunno how well they are insulated or whatever, but I get no radio interference.
However, the hotter coil plus LiveWires definitely seems to require attention paid to careful separation of the Wires for optimum performance. I've used "performance" type, thicker-gage wires -- but stock coil -- on previous vehicles and haven't noticed much difference whether the wires were contacting metal or each other or not.
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I've been running this PDI ignition setup with iridium plugs for about the last 6 months. One of the things I probably should have payed closer attention to is the spacing of the LiveWires.
I had done the zip tie criss-cross setup in a couple of locations to keep the wires apart, but, as of last night, I noticed that the wires were still touching in a couple of spots and one was hitting the metal accessory mount for the AC.
Today I spent 5 minutes to seperate in 4 differnet locations with overlapped zip ties. Now there's no contact, no touching metal etc. And the Jeep is driving like I was expecting after I bought the PDI setup: better low-end, better throttle response and none of the off-idle miss I had before.
PDI LiveWires are a decent-quality product. I dunno how well they are insulated or whatever, but I get no radio interference.
However, the hotter coil plus LiveWires definitely seems to require attention paid to careful separation of the Wires for optimum performance. I've used "performance" type, thicker-gage wires -- but stock coil -- on previous vehicles and haven't noticed much difference whether the wires were contacting metal or each other or not.
You need to use Zip-ties? You didn't buy the whole kit did you? The kit should come with two billet aluminum seperators. One for #1 & #2 and the other for #3 and #4.
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They looked like they were priced fairly reasonably $25 :eek::lol:
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They looked like they were priced fairly reasonably $25 :eek::lol:
Maybe I should cash in and sell the extra one I have in my drawer then. :ass: