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General Forums => The Mess Hall => Topic started by: John OB on May 08, 2009, 07:29:25 AM
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Hey Folks,
I’m considering some upgrades to El Jefe. It’s a 95 Rio, 4 pin, manual with a stock drive train (30 & 35 w/4.10). It’s lifted about 3" and runs 31" ATs. I’ve pulled everything nonessential out of it to lighten it up and the majority of it’s time is spent trail riding in the Pine Barrens. The terrain is sand that ranges from hard pack to near quick sand. I don’t mud bog or rock climb and really don’t intend to. I’d be looking for some suggestions on up grades to make it more, I dunno...reliable, independent, bad ass, lol. Let’s say you had a Grand, what would your moves be?
Johnny O
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lockers and a gears.
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From the sounds of it, you have already have wheeled some in your YJ. Where do you think your next investment would be to have fun in your YJ rather than digging it out of the hole you got in? LOL.
For the type of terrain you described, get yourself some self-recovery items: winch, digging dead weight, hi-lift with base for sand, bumpers capable for self-extracting, etc. Due aggressive maintenance on the bearings and seals of your driveshafts, trans, tcase, brakes, steering ends, and axles. Everything that would come in contact with the water, salt and sand of the terrain.
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I guess that's where I'm leaning...do I invest in a locker (front probably) so I don't get stuck or a winch so I can remove myself from said predicament and continue with the fun? I don't posess the mad skills to instal a locker but a winch is a bolt on.
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If you find yourself getting stuck much, a winch would be the way to go. Maybe a pull-pal also if there are few trees or rocks to attach the winch cable. I would not put a locker in because it would decrease your reliability.
If you are not getting stuck much go with increased drivetrain reliability. This would involve a ford 8.8 rear axle (gets rid of D35 weakest link) or D44 if you can find one cheap enough.
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Now someone else had recommended a "lunchbox" locker in the rear (35). That it's a shadetree mechanic install and it strengthens (or at least eliminates) many of the 35s short commings. It's not so much that we're getting stuck but it would be good to be more trail worthy. Better to go thru than around kind of thing.
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It would eliminate the spider gears but since it is a locker, it would make the axle shafts more likely to break. If you want more capability with only a small decrease in reliability, you might consider 32 inch BFG MTs and quick disconnects for the sway bar, as well as the elimination of both front and rear track bars. I know a guy who ran 32s with an open diff D35 for fairly extreme weekly wheeling in rocks for several years and never had an axle break. He did eventually get a ford 8.8 though.
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It would eliminate the spider gears but since it is a locker, it would make the axle shafts more likely to break. If you want more capability with only a small decrease in reliability, you might consider 32 inch BFG MTs and quick disconnects for the sway bar, as well as the elimination of both front and rear track bars. I know a guy who ran 32s with an open diff D35 for fairly extreme weekly wheeling in rocks for several years and never had an axle break. He did eventually get a ford 8.8 though.
I am not sure a locker is such a bad idea for sand, as there wont be any shock loads... Shock loads are what breaks axles, and in sand, it's not so common to find traction all of a sudden, so a lunchbox locker may not be a terrible investment. Still, I am not sure I would go that way myself, but just saying...
As for the rest, I second the opinion...
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Flotation and high RPMs for sand...wider tires, rims, mebbe and some 4:56 gear sets? Engine bolt ons to help in the upper RPM range might help too.
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Flotation and high RPMs for sand...wider tires, rims, mebbe and some 4:56 gear sets? Engine bolt ons to help in the upper RPM range might help too.
With the 4 cylinder go 4.88, 4.56 isn't enough of a change for the $. The auto locker + D-35 would not be more reliable than stock, worse actually. However they are a cheap way to improve off road performance. I run them F&R (for now, non daily driver though). If you are wheeling alone or constantly find yourself suck the winch is nice.
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I'm not sure if I'd bother with gears with only 31's. I'd just go with some decent 31x10.5R15 MT's but 31x9.5R15's would be OK if that's what you have. BFG makes 12.5's but I wouldn't want them that wide on a daily driver.
I'd buy stuff the basics. Recovery gear and maybe a Lunch-box locker for the rear. Some swaybar disconnects and dump the track bars, relocate the brakelines under the frame should be fine for mild trails. Hi-lift tow-straps, extension rope, tow, hooks, etc... A winch is nice but that's gonna eat up a big chunk of your funds.
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Thanks guys, I don't intend on going any higher or taller on lift or tires. The tires are 31/10.5/15 and air down and float nicely. I'm not interested in messing with the ring and pinion, hence my question about a lunchbox. No one seems to agree on it's strength or that of the 35. Granted it's not the strongest rear but I'm not a professional bogger or rock climber either. I'd rather not spend unnecessary money on something that's overkill just so I can say I have it. Sway bar disconnects is something I hadnt considered, that's on the list.
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Thanks guys, I don't intend on going any higher or taller on lift or tires. The tires are 31/10.5/15 and air down and float nicely. I'm not interested in messing with the ring and pinion, hence my question about a lunchbox. No one seems to agree on it's strength or that of the 35. Granted it's not the strongest rear but I'm not a professional bogger or rock climber either. I'd rather not spend unnecessary money on something that's overkill just so I can say I have it. Sway bar disconnects is something I hadnt considered, that's on the list.
If you drive with the idea that that's your weak spot then you should be OK with 31's and a locker.
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my $.02
if you stay with 31s,
find a 8.8 with 4.10 gears and a limited slip for the rear. check car-parts.com for one
Aussie locker in the front, Aussies lockers are lunch type locker and are easily installed.
sway bar discos and remove your track bars. allow you to flex and keep all four wheels turning.
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find a 8.8 with 4.10 gears and a limited slip for the rear. check car-parts.com for one
x2, def the route I'd go! :thumb:
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x2, def the route I'd go! :thumb:
What is it w/ Jeepers wanting to put an anchor under the back of thier Jeeps? Thats one of the mods I wish I wouldn't have wasted my money on. It's a big, heavy axle that isn't worth it unless you are running 35's or bigger or your breaking shafts in your d35 every trip out because your in big rock. Otherwise it's a big expence that most wheelers don't need. Heck some of the guys I wheel w/ who run s-10's, Rangers, and BII's install d35s because there better than their stock axles, and don't add the mass of the 8.8.
Back on topic, from the sounds of the wheeling you do, I would go lunchbox locker in the rear, (possibly front too) and then start looking into a winch and other recovery gear, or armour (bumpers, rocker gaurds etc.)
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I wouldn't worry about swapping rear axles if your plans are to stay with 31" tires.
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I run similar sounding terrain here in florida, lots of sand forest roads/ trails. I run 35's with a d35 not modified in any way yet. Already have a winch and its paid for itself more than once. I have not had trouble with d35 yet, but I'm light on the skinny pedal. I plan on upgrading at some point. I originally ran 31 11.50 swamper LTB's and had no issues and that was in the mud.
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I installed a Smittybilt 8,000 last night and just received my Aussie Locker this morning. I plan on getting the Blue Flu tomorrow and doing the install with junior. Total invest was less than $700.
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I think you did about the best thing possible with your budget. Is the Aussie going in the front?
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No I'm gonna put it in the rear...we get a few snow droppings every year and fron what I've researched a locked rear is better behaved than a locked front in FWD. If future $ allows maybe I'd go with a selectable locker in the front. That way I guess I could still run it in FWD but disconnect the locker. We'll see... I'm stoked about putting in the locker though!!
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It should be a lot of fun to test! Good luck with your build.
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No I'm gonna put it in the rear...we get a few snow droppings every year and fron what I've researched a locked rear is better behaved than a locked front in FWD. If future $ allows maybe I'd go with a selectable locker in the front. That way I guess I could still run it in FWD but disconnect the locker. We'll see... I'm stoked about putting in the locker though!!
Once you get used to it, a rear locker should be very predictable. Let it unlock and you'll get understeer, use the throttle so it stays locked and you'll get a a bit of oversteer.
I think you did well in your choices.