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General Forums => The Mess Hall => Topic started by: Mozman68 on August 30, 2009, 04:41:07 PM
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I think I have a short somewhere...but maybe it is something else. This problem has appeared on and off for about the past year. Never seems to remain for more than a day or two, but has been pretty bad the past week.
I keep thinking it has something to do with my rear lights as the wires have had to be re-connected a few times due to their exposure to the elements over the past year thanks to my fancy flat fenders.
Yesterday, I lost my back up lights...completely re-wired them...nothing....and now I don't think the power is even coming from the source wire as the back-up camera will not initiate, which means there is no power going through the hot line at all....checked all of the grounds. Battery and alternator checked out fine last weekend at autozone....any thoughts??
Video of my crazy gauges below.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OoAJxdXIQ68
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I wish I had that kind of acceleration! :lol:
Your CEL is on. What's it say?
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I think I have a short somewhere...but maybe it is something else. This problem has appeared on and off for about the past year. Never seems to remain for more than a day or two, but has been pretty bad the past week.
I keep thinking it has something to do with my rear lights as the wires have had to be re-connected a few times due to their exposure to the elements over the past year thanks to my fancy flat fenders.
Yesterday, I lost my back up lights...completely re-wired them...nothing....and now I don't think the power is even coming from the source wire as the back-up camera will not initiate, which means there is no power going through the hot line at all....checked all of the grounds. Battery and alternator checked out fine last weekend at autozone....any thoughts??
Video of my crazy gauges below.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OoAJxdXIQ68
did you try jumping the tranny rear drive switch? won't be related to the speedo but could be the reason your backup lights won't come on (or maybe the connector came loose).
that speedo thing - since it is driven by a sequence of impulses (and this is just brainstorming, can't tell for sure) i'm thinking you could get full 5v on it somehow (or 8v since i dunno what is your sensor powered at) - so it's either a short in the harness that goes to the speedo sensor or the sensor itself, or it's the actual speedo that is shot - now, since i think it goes to the ecu first could be something else, but this is what i can think of.
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I wish I had that kind of acceleration! :lol:
Your CEL is on. What's it say?
X2...for both.
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Yeah...at first I thought there may be some sort of wormhole in my driveway....
The CEL has been on for years....usually comes up as a fuel vapor issue (something must be loose back by the filler cap).
Having it checked again tomorrow.
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You can check the gauges as well with the mileage trip button. IIRC you hold it down with key in run position. Then watch the gauges go ballastic. But that usually corrects itself.
I had my speedo and temp gauge do some high stuff as well. I went to do the computer code check and didn't do it right. I think I held the trip button down with the key in the on position. It corrected itself. Oh, 97 TJ.
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Yep...I did that last week when it popped up.
Quick update...found that the rear light fuse was blown...a new fuse blew immediately as well, so I'm starting there just for the heck of it. Could a bad relay cause that?? I think I have a spare laying around. Spent half the day yesterday ripping into the rear light wiring and think it is fine...do not want to do that again today, so looking for quick things to check.
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Disconnected the relay and the fuse doesn't blow and the back-up LED lights work...so the problem is in the wiring to the bumoer mounted back-up lights...hopefully easy enough to find now. Still doesn't explain the speedo...tried disconnecting the speedo wire to see what happens, but I haven't been able to separate the two pieces....grrrrrrr
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Quick update...found that the rear light fuse was blown...a new fuse blew immediately as well, so I'm starting there just for the heck of it. Could a bad relay cause that??
a bad relay won't blow your fuse. not sure if your harness still has the weatherpack connectors for the rear lights, if you do you can unplug those and see if you still blow the fuse - that way you can isolate at least the area where the problem is.
EDIT: just saw you had another post after this one - which relay did you disconnect and which fuse is getting fried (getting a bit confused since you said that the backup lights are working once you did that).
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Your speedo problem is unrelated to your backup lights.
When gauges start sweeping like that it means its not getting info from the sender or the ecm most likely cause is moisture on the circuit board or a poor connection at the connector on the back of the instrument cluster
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Thanks...there are two sets of back-up lights...ones in my LED's and a pair in the bumper....
Undid the relay for the bumper lights and that fixed the fuse issue since the factory wire goes to the tail lights first and then to the bumper mounted lights.
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3492/3875455064_bd5a1f2d91_b.jpg)
Tried disconnecting the speedo switch at the transfer case to see if that affects the gauges, but I can't get it disconnected...grrrrr
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Thanks...there are two sets of back-up lights...ones in my LED's and a pair in the bumper....
Undid the relay for the bumper lights and that fixed the fuse issue since the factory wire goes to the tail lights first and then to the bumper mounted lights.
Tried disconnecting the speedo switch at the transfer case to see if that affects the gauges, but I can't get it disconnected...grrrrr
ok, i understand now how the backup lights are setup :)
before you disconnect the speedo sender check the codes - if it looses connection like aw suggested you I think you would get a code, if it's a short in the harness i don't think you would though.
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Your speedo problem is unrelated to your backup lights.
When gauges start sweeping like that it means its not getting info from the sender or the ecm most likely cause is moisture on the circuit board or a poor connection at the connector on the back of the instrument cluster
When this happened to my Neon (another Chrysler product) it was the battery going bad. So it seems like low voltage in general can cause this strange behavior.
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When this happened to my Neon (another Chrysler product) it was the battery going bad. So it seems like low voltage in general can cause this strange behavior.
Had that checked last week, but I would liek them to check it while it is acting crazy like this.
Last week, the second I pulled in the parking lot it went away...right before he hooked the tester up... :brick:
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AutoZone re-confirmed that the battery is good...then they went to check the error codes.
3 times... machine came back as an error and couldn't read the codes....so....computer module problem under the dash??
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I would say it has a communication error between the dash, the ecm and possibly the OBD 2 connector. The gauges will sweep like that with a bus error, the newer ones will display that on the odometer though. I would try to unplug the dash and plug it back in
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We have a club meeting tomorrow...going the swap the ecm with another Jeep and see if that is it.
Thanks for all of the info!!
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Did a little more on-line research and it seems that it could be a CPS issue as that would affect the bus as well causing my code reader errors, sputtering, voltage drop, whacko speedo.....and I'm over 100,000 miles, so it would seem like it is time for a new one.
Thoughts?
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Did a little more on-line research and it seems that it could be a CPS issue as that would affect the bus as well causing my code reader errors, sputtering, voltage drop, whacko speedo.....and I'm over 100,000 miles, so it would seem like it is time for a new one.
Thoughts?
could be, but imo you would get some rough idle or the engine would interrupt while driving or revving if the cps was bad - i still think it's speed sensor related (just thinking if the crank would result in those issues why not the speed sensor too since they are both feeding the ecu) - and also, from what i understand in your video was only doing it when you start moving, so another reason to think it's the speed sender. But who knows, this is just me guessing - hope you make the right decision so you don't spend extra $$$. good luck :)
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I must be a woman....I'm changing my mind again....
It actually happens when not moving...kids think it's hilarious.
I'm going to pull the dash and clean the connections....logic seems to be ruling in this direction as it is not occurring on a regular basis. I would think that if the ECM or CPS went bad, it would be bad and causing things to be crazy all of the time. On the way back from lunch it was fine.....stupid Jeep.
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I must be a woman....I'm changing my mind again....
It actually happens when not moving...kids think it's hilarious.
I'm going to pull the dash and clean the connections....logic seems to be ruling in this direction as it is not occurring on a regular basis. I would think that if the ECM or CPS went bad, it would be bad and causing things to be crazy all of the time. On the way back from lunch it was fine.....stupid Jeep.
are there any other gauges that go nuts? i could only see the speedo in your vid.
if the cleaning doesn't change anything try to unplug the speed sender (i think someone else suggested that before as well, so sorry for that not trying to take credit for the suggestion) - that would tell you if it is related to the sender if it stops doing it.
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I tried unplugging it yesterday...can't get the stupid thing apart....and if it was the sender, I'm not sure that would affect the volt meter, would it??
And if that was bad, wouldn't it be bad all of the time and not "fix itself"??
Like Art said, I think, probably just the cluster connection or some plug not set in all the way. That would make sense...go off-road..hit a bump that lossens it...doesn't work for a week...hit another bump that jars it close enough to the contacts and it works....stupid Jeep...
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In some cases it's moisture on the printed circuit board of the cluster.
Try the connector thing first another thing you could try is to dry the circuit board and spray it lightly with some kind of coating that resists moisture.
We have a fair amount of problems with funky instrument clusters that are ecm driven in International trucks. You could try to pmDoctor D on the Rubicon owners forum he deals a lot with IHC trucks I am sure he knows what bulletin refers to that problem and what coating to use. Another fix is to change the cluster which gets pricey
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I tried unplugging it yesterday...can't get the stupid thing apart....and if it was the sender, I'm not sure that would affect the volt meter, would it??
And if that was bad, wouldn't it be bad all of the time and not "fix itself"??
Like Art said, I think, probably just the cluster connection or some plug not set in all the way. That would make sense...go off-road..hit a bump that lossens it...doesn't work for a week...hit another bump that jars it close enough to the contacts and it works....stupid Jeep...
if there are any other gauges doing the crazy bounce then yes it is unlikely that the speed sensor is the problem - i just went by the vid you posted where i only saw the speedometer going full sweep - in this case (if there are any other gauges doing the dance) the loose/bad connectors makes more sense, don't think the speed sender would have anything to do with the voltmeter.
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Moz. I'd get someone with a better diagnostic tool to check it for you. The Autozone ones are great for letting you know you need an O2 sensor but aren't a great diagnostic tool for complicated electrical gremlins! I know becasue I am currently battling one!!! The guys that have the proper diagnostic tool can plug a specific card in for your year and model and get a WHOLE lot more info. They can test most sensors and really disect the code. Good luck.
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So, after fixing itself yet again just over a week ago, the speedo starting going whacko yesterday.
Just spent the past hour pulling out the dash and cleaning the heck out of it. Plugged it back in and....speedo still whacko....grrrrrrrrr......
.....stupid jeep.....
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Likely at the transfer case end.
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Likely at the transfer case end.
x2, still thinking it might be the speed sensor - were you able to unplug that thing yet Moz?
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nah...thought I'd stuff at the easy part first...and it was nice to get it all cleaned up.
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hmmmm...someone on Pirate mentioned that the clockspring might be the issue...stupid Jeep....
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hmmmm...someone on Pirate mentioned that the clockspring might be the issue...stupid Jeep....
sorry for this question and just for my reference - what is the clockspring?
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sorry for this question and just for my reference - what is the clockspring?
It's behind the steering wheel....it has been known to cause some false TPS related readings since they share some wiring (maybe just the ground??)...yet another wire to check....just need to pull the steering column shrouds off and make sure everything is clean.
I still think it might be the CPS...will have the dealership check it out.
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hmmmm...someone on Pirate mentioned that the clockspring might be the issue...stupid Jeep....
Hmm, I'm going to with that as well. You might try taking the steering column apart and cleaning up the clock spring's connections.
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It really is very strange....starting up from my other office at lunch, Jeep is sputtering...speedo going whacko as usual....voltage is fine......then the voltage drops to 12...and then down to nothing....what a pain in the ass....stupid Jeep.
Need to get this taken care of before I head to IN next week.
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The clock spring is known to short voltage to the TPS when it fails.
Don't really think that is your problem, your problem or problems are somewhere else.
When it acts up you need to do some prodding with a volt meter you have a bad connection somewhere most likely due to corrosion. Remember you live is the road salt area of this country your gremlin could be in a multitude of places but it is related to either powers or grounds
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Did you ever just stand back and look at something differently and have an incredible moment of clarity???
The guy was backing my Jeep up after changing the oil and I noticed my back-up lights (the ones in my LED lights) were not on...and then I remembered one of the times when my cluster was whacko and I had an issue with my lights as well.
So...I'm riping out the lights this weekend and doing a complete re-wire....amazing what a short will do....
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Did you ever just stand back and look at something differently and have an incredible moment of clarity???
The guy was backing my Jeep up after changing the oil and I noticed my back-up lights (the ones in my LED lights) were not on...and then I remembered one of the times when my cluster was whacko and I had an issue with my lights as well.
So...I'm riping out the lights this weekend and doing a complete re-wire....amazing what a short will do....
didn't you say you just rewired them on page 1 post 1? :wall:
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didn't you say you just rewired them on page 1 post 1? :wall:
Yeah...I suck....and the fact that all of the rear wiring is exposed because of my flat fenders doesn't help either.
New lights are coming probably tomorrow...
(http://ep.yimg.com/ca/I/yhst-5253399658814_2069_4546844)
Going :wall: to wire and wrap the living hell out of them this weekend....and then ordering new back up lights....LED as well.....
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...and I also ordered this as well....
(http://www.dakotadigital.com/cartimages/prd_zm_126.jpg)
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good luck.. wiring always sucks...
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good luck.. wiring always sucks...
LOL! I actually like wiring. Although, I did almost become a Electronic Tech. :lol: Just make sure you practice soldering and use shrink tubing. You don't want to use crimp on connectors and you don't want to do cold solder joints. Those are the main problems. Then tie up the wires with zip-ties to kee them from moving around. You can wrap them with electrical tape, but I then to shy away from it since it looks bad and collects dirt.
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they also have the paint on electrical coating... but i don't know if i realy like it.. i have problems with getting even coverage.. it tends to like to glob and be effected by gravity before drying.. shrink tubing is the way to go...
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...and I also ordered this as well....
(http://www.dakotadigital.com/cartimages/prd_zm_126.jpg)
what's the plan with this one? oh, and what does it do?
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...and I also ordered this as well....
(http://www.dakotadigital.com/cartimages/prd_zm_126.jpg)
That's what I run to convert the cable signal from the T-case to electronic signal for the speedo.
Why do you need it?
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It actually will take the digital signal and convert it to other PPS so it can calibrate your speedometer without changing the gear.
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It actually will take the digital signal and convert it to other PPS so it can calibrate your speedometer without changing the gear.
cool, good to know
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It actually will take the digital signal and convert it to other PPS so it can calibrate your speedometer without changing the gear.
Forgot about that part. When I was on 35's and 4.88's my speedo was off a few miles per hour. I didn't worry about it. Then I went to 37's and 5.38's and it reads just about perfect within a mile per hour. I didn't touch the box so I'm glad it worked out.
I guess Moz doesn't like his speedo reading 100 :lol:
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Yep...I have a super short SYE...no speedo gear...have been running 10% fast for a year and I'm sure that doesn't help any.
Figured, while I'm ripping into everything, might as well fix that.
Picking up a ton of shrink connectors as well as the tape to get everything as high and tight as possible....stupid lights look like they won't be here until Monday though.... :fitz:
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I run the Dakota Digital interface due to the supershort SYE, and I like to run different size tires to the trail and back.
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I run the Dakota Digital interface due to the supershort SYE, and I like to run different size tires to the trail and back.
Any install tips??
I guess I should mount it right behind the dash or near the cluster....any help would be appreciated as I don't want to spend 1/2 a day figuring out which wires I need to splice in and from where.
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Any install tips??
I guess I should mount it right behind the dash or near the cluster....any help would be appreciated as I don't want to spend 1/2 a day figuring out which wires I need to splice in and from where.
I'd mount it near the dash. You don't want to expose the box to the elements. Not to mention, you won't have to climb under the Jeep to reset it.
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I mounted it under the dash, below the steering wheel. I can reach up and adjust the speedo up or down on the fly. It is spliced into the speedo wires at the speed sensor mounted to the transfer case.
I had to play around with the 4 switches to dial in the correct setting, I will take a look tomorrow and see where my 4 switches are at.
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I mounted it under the dash, below the steering wheel. I can reach up and adjust the speedo up or down on the fly. It is spliced into the speedo wires at the speed sensor mounted to the transfer case.
I had to play around with the 4 switches to dial in the correct setting, I will take a look tomorrow and see where my 4 switches are at.
I was more interested in how you wired it and where....so you just ran the wires down under the Jeep to the t-case??