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General Forums => The Mess Hall => Topic started by: YJ KiD on October 01, 2009, 06:46:45 PM
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alright guys i have a pretty good idea that i would like to get somewhere in the neighborhood of 4 to 6 in of lift to do what i want and i am pretty clueless in they way of suspension what are the disadvantages of SOA conversion. The reason that i ask is because the affordability of the SOA as opposed to the high tag of the kits with new springs. I am not opposed to any suggestions to achieve the desired lift with the least price tag so any budget lift ideas would be seriously entertained as well.
Thanks for the info in advance
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You will be surprised how much a SOA costs. It's about the same or more than a good SUA lift.
It's not just moving the springs to the top of the axle tube. You will have spring wrap to deal with, steering issues, brake lines,shocks. The most expensive part is the steering. Without it you can have some nasty bump steer.
I would suggest a SUA lift, TJ flares ( cut as much as you can ) and a 1 inch body lift if you still need more lift.
What size tire are you looking to run?
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looking to run 35's and still have plenty of room to flex withoout any rubbing issues which will be accompanied by 4.88's until i change axles (way down the road, found out today goning to only be working 2 days a week for next couple months, DAMN ECONOMY)
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For 35's 4.5 inch springs, TJ flares, and some 5/8 shackles should do it with plenty of room. You'll need a drop pitman arm thou. Ditch the swaybars and trac bars.
You can buy this stuff little by little to make it easier on the wallet. Keep an eye out for TJ flares. They come up on CL and E-bay as well as the forums.
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You will be surprised how much a SOA costs. It's about the same or more than a good SUA lift.
It's not just moving the springs to the top of the axle tube. You will have spring wrap to deal with, steering issues, brake lines,shocks. The most expensive part is the steering. Without it you can have some nasty bump steer.
I would suggest a SUA lift, TJ flares ( cut as much as you can ) and a 1 inch body lift if you still need more lift.
What size tire are you looking to run?
Funny thing is if you have adequate SUA lift, a SOA is downright cheap. Other then transfer case business which would be required for BOTH types of lift, a SOA can be done for less as long as your have welding skills and wield a wrench. The biggest difference is not having to buy leafs. Although, you might want to run two sets of rear leafs. Then you'll have to figure out a way to eliminate the axle wrap. Most mass-produced examples don't work too well. But then you could go SUA in the back. If you have an adequate budget and do your homework, you can piece together a nice lift. Cheaper? Maybe not since you'll probably end up using higher quality parts.
Otherwise, just go with a Rubicon Express 4.5" XD kit.
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i will prolly make my own tube fenders in my off time sittin at home due to the fact that is what i do for a living (sheetmetal) and i can go to the shop and make the tubing then it is as easy as welding them up just need to sit down and figure my dimensions i'll put up pics when i get them done .....as for the lift i am just exploring options any more feedback
thanks for what's up already
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The steering doesn't have to break the bank either, I run the JB4x4 (http://www.jb4x4.com/products.htm) crossover setup and am very happy with it. Zero bumpsteer.
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I did my SOA a little different than most and I really like how it turned out, I feel my Jeep rides and handles better than any other YJ I've ridden in both on and off road. I'm running Fullsize Dodge truck front leaf spring packs all the way around on my Jeep, they kept my center of gravity lower (only ended up at 4" of lift since there flat springs). I'm running extended shackles in the front and 3/4 eliptical in the rear, my upper leaf is the main out of the rear of a fullsize as well. All I had to do for steering was a drop pitman arm and it works for now (I want highsteer so I quit bending parts). When I went w/ the Dodge springs I had the small issue of them being 2" longer than YJ springs, this moved my axles out an inch on each end, and gives me a unique looking front shackle angle, that is correct because of the flat springs it just looks a little different. I have very little spring wrap issues unless I'm doing something stupid (2nd gear low at the revlimiter climbing a verticle shale ledge).
I'm currently running 3 sets of tires 34ltb's, 33bfg at's and 36tsl's, the 36's rub some when I flex out but I have stock rear flares still on it, the front fenders are cut flat and don't rub w/ any of the tires. If you want more lift or don't want as much length change I would look at Chevy Blazer (fullsize) front springs as they have a little more arch than my Dodges and they are an inch shorter. I would guess they would give you a 5" lift running SOA.
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I am running 4"sua and tube fenders. when i can find ones for the back i am sure 35s no problem. if you wanna make an extra back set I have 100 plus shipping. tj flare size is what i am looking for
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I would look at weighing what you can gathering to succeed at what you want to run - 35's. However, not only do you have to look into the suspension, you also have to look into the driveline. Your YJ (assuming by sign-on name) may not have the correct driveline to handle 35's on the trails, yet the street. Changing to a larger tire size requires changes in gear ratio to maintain street performance. Changes in gear ratio requires a review of axles to be used. Some axles are better than others depending on your driver's skill level, terrain type, etc. Most YJs will have the smaller front axle u-joint that has tendencies to break and take the axles (one or both) at the same time. Most YJs also have a rear axle that has tendencies to break spider gears, r&P and also rear axle shafts.
So your goal is to end up with a YJ on 35's, check out the driveline foundation first and go from there. You may want to look into your local 4wd clubs (Jeep specific if you can) and look for others that have recently upgraded their parts. You may be able to pick up some tires/wheels that are slightly larger than your stock for cheap. For clearance, there are several ways to end up with what you want. Most of the time, lift kits provide a drop bracket for the stock trans skid to maintain driveline angles. You can gain clearance there with a flat belly plate, but do to the driveline angle and the slip yoke of your tcase, a slip yoke eliminator (SYE) should be done. This provides the capability to remove the rear ds without loosing fluid out of the back of your tcase. The slip yoke of the stock 1-pce ds maintains a seal against the output housing. When you remove the rear ds, there is nothing to provide the seal. A TJ tcase is not like that.
I run a stock rear ds in my TJ. What I had done when I added a small body lift was I added an engine lift. This maintains the driveline angle to the rear axle near stock. It is better than dropping your trans skid plate. Look at it like this, lift the front or drop the rear of the engine/trans.
Its the same for adding larger and wider flares. YJ flares are smaller than TJs. If you can find a set of TJ Rubicon flares, they are even wider than the stock TJs. Wider meaning coming off the body of the Jeep.
Good luck with your project. Just note, that you will need to regear, so might as well look into lockers as well. Lunchbox style will work and can be removed easily by you (you seem to have some mechanical skills) if you prefer to go back to being open. Case lockers require resetting of the r&P. Many limited slips are similar to case lockers in that removal requires resetting. That is why I prefer the lunchbox style- LockRight, EasyLocker, Aussie, and newest is Yukon's Spartan locker.
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thanks for the input guys i have a lot to think about
as for the fenders i intend to make i will most likely be putting up a thread when start making them
we'll see how long they take per set to make and what it costs me to get the material
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anyone running the RE 7 in soa kit they sell it is prolly a little more lift than i think i need but might be an option. The rear leafs are a 6 spring pack that should make a difference on axle wrap right?
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anyone running the RE 7 in soa kit they sell it is prolly a little more lift than i think i need but might be an option. The rear leafs are a 6 spring pack that should make a difference on axle wrap right?
The 6.5" SOA kit they sell is the bare minimum you need to get started. I run their front perches but that's about it. Everything else you can acquire elsewhere or bypass altogether. It's nowhere near being a complete kit.
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the kit i found was listed as coming with perches, brake lines, transfer case lowering kit, shock adapter brackets, pitman arm, track arm brackets, and springs but no hardware so obviously hardware will be needed and a CV shaft and possibly a SYE. What else is going to be needed?
if u use a CV shaft and a SYE will u have to use the transfer case drop or would it be better to lift the motor with new mounts?
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You use either the transfer case drop, or the SYE and CV driveshaft, but not both.
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any opinions(sp) on how bad the axle wrap would be with the 6 pack rear springs?
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this is prob a real newb question....why dont more of you YJ guys gut your springs in favor of coil set ups like on the TJ?-i think i remember coil sets being sold as an option to rid yourselves of your leaf springs. Wouldnt coils and shocks be better off road as far as flex and off road manners are concerned...i hope i didnt stir up the hornets nest with that last statement..please note i meant no disrespect.
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this is prob a real newb question....why dont more of you YJ guys gut your springs in favor of coil set ups like on the TJ?-i think i remember coil sets being sold as an option to rid yourselves of your leaf springs. Wouldnt coils and shocks be better off road as far as flex and off road manners are concerned...i hope i didnt stir up the hornets nest with that last statement..please note i meant no disrespect.
Costs is the biggie! Setting up a 4 link is spendy! Plus getting the geometry correct is another big factor.
Besides leaf springs are awesome! I thought it would be cool to get a LJ and swap in leafs. I have seen a few builds like that. Mostly it would be to :stick: with the coil crowd. :blbl:
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i know that buying a kit to swap to coils is definately not the cheapest way to go to coils but the fabtech conversion is around 8K wanna lend me the money and i'm in
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why dont more of you YJ guys gut your springs in favor of coil set ups
I love having the rear of mine linked. Flexes great and rides better than any YJ I've been in. 3 linked front is on the list.
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Costs is the biggie! Setting up a 4 link is spendy! Plus getting the geometry correct is another big factor.
Besides leaf springs are awesome! I thought it would be cool to get a LJ and swap in leafs. I have seen a few builds like that. Mostly it would be to :stick: with the coil crowd. :blbl:
Speaking of which, the JK Diesel with the D60 has leafs in the back. They just can't get the load capacity they need with coils.
Then there are those TJ'ers who have switched to rear leafs to get rid of rear steer as well as the squatting and jacking problems. I think Brad Kilby was one of the first to convert the rear coils to Leafs. He also changed the coils to Coil-overs later on. Might as well forget coils and go with a multi-link long arm suspension and coil-overs. Still, that's a lot of work and for most people, overkill.
Leafs are simple technology that works. Problem is most of the complaints of leafs are from mass-produced leafs and not custom ones. When building a custom suspension, you really need to account for YOUR jeeps specs and not someone elses.
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The Superlift X2 has leafs in the rear also for the TJ and JK.
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Whatever route you go I HIGHLY reccomend BDS springs. I love mine. I think they are flexy as heck right out of the box.
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Regarding the axle wrap question: One local jeeper had a very reliable SUA Jeep on RE 4 inch springs and something like revolver shackles. Then he converted to SOA with the same 4 inch springs except that by then they where very sagged and provided maybe 2" of lift. The SOA was reliable with 32 and 33 inch tires but as soon as he went with 35s the axle wrap got so bad that rear u-joints were breaking pretty often. He then converted the rear to a link suspension to get rid of the axle wrap. The thing to keep in mind is that if the axle wrap was so bad with sagged 4" springs, it will be even worse with stock springs.
Another bad thing about the stock spings in either SOA or SUA is that if you hit a step hard you will tend to put a kink in the main leaf (front springs) near the main eye (personal experience). The curvature of lift springs (SOA or SUA) will take smacking into a step much better. If you do go SOA, try to get the RE 1.5 inch lift springs so they have some arch to them.
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I wish BDS made a 0" lift spring for SOA, I would buy them in a heartbeat. Can't beat the 'no questions asked' warranty, they replace them no matter the abuse.
I run stock springs with an add-a-leaf from another pair of stock front spring packs. The AAL's were cut half-way through the spring eye so they wrap part-way around the spring-eye of the main leaf, giving it good support where they commonly bend at the spring-eye. I run 5.38 gears and axlewrap is minimal.
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Check this out...
http://www.ksl.com/index.php?nid=218&ad=8206855&lpid=&cat=402
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thats a pretty sweet rig wish i had that much for adedicated rig
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Regarding the axle wrap question: One local jeeper had a very reliable SUA Jeep on RE 4 inch springs and something like revolver shackles. Then he converted to SOA with the same 4 inch springs except that by then they where very sagged and provided maybe 2" of lift. The SOA was reliable with 32 and 33 inch tires but as soon as he went with 35s the axle wrap got so bad that rear u-joints were breaking pretty often. He then converted the rear to a link suspension to get rid of the axle wrap. The thing to keep in mind is that if the axle wrap was so bad with sagged 4" springs, it will be even worse with stock springs.
Another bad thing about the stock spings in either SOA or SUA is that if you hit a step hard you will tend to put a kink in the main leaf (front springs) near the main eye (personal experience). The curvature of lift springs (SOA or SUA) will take smacking into a step much better. If you do go SOA, try to get the RE 1.5 inch lift springs so they have some arch to them.
I would think that the longer the leaf, the more prone to warping... So in that sense, a stock leaf (shorter) would be less prone to warping. Of course, it also has to do with how stiff the leaf is in the first place (and you mentioned that the 4" leafs were pretty worn). RE does make a SOA set of leafs, so that may be something you would want to check out if considering SOA.