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General Forums => The Mess Hall => Topic started by: Jeffy on October 15, 2009, 06:11:39 PM
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Ok, so I'm getting around to doing more inexpensive mods to the Jeep. Current setup is stock YJ D30 up front and XJ D44 10" drums in the back. The pedal is spongy when you push the petal all the way down. I'd like firmer brakes and a bit more bite. I think I've got a lead on a dual-diaphragm booster that should increase the pressure a bit. I'm still on the fence about what master I should use. I've heard the Dodge Ram 3500 is popular with TJ'ers. One major consideration is hood clearance. I've read that that master on a TJ booster in a YJ will have hood clearance issues. Although, I have read and found that 1990-1997 2500 Ram Van masters are lower profile. I think there should be enough room for a E350 booster as well since it doesn't look nearly as tall as the RAM 3500 master.
I'm going to be doing this on the cheap since I don't like to do high-end projects as they are usually out of the reach of regular guy's, I being one of them. :lol:
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Ok, so I'm getting around to doing more inexpensive mods to the Jeep. Current setup is stock YJ D30 up front and XJ D44 10" drums in the back. The pedal is spongy when you push the petal all the way down. I'd like firmer brakes and a bit more bite. I think I've got a lead on a dual-diaphragm booster that should increase the pressure a bit. I'm still on the fence about what master I should use. I've heard the Dodge Ram 3500 is popular with TJ'ers. One major consideration is hood clearance. I've read that that master on a TJ booster in a YJ will have hood clearance issues. Although, I have read and found that 1990-1997 2500 Ram Van masters are lower profile. I think there should be enough room for a E350 booster as well since it doesn't look nearly as tall as the RAM 3500 master.
I'm going to be doing this on the cheap since I don't like to do high-end projects as they are usually out of the reach of regular guy's, I being one of them. :lol:
from what i read the wj front disks and calipers would give you the best bite (+ the mods you already listed which is dual diaphragm and upgraded master). I didn't explore the extend of the mods, seems to be fairly complicated but all the reviews say that would knock your socks off once you have them in - i might look to see if i can find some cheap ones at the wreckers and try to fab some adapters for the calipers (although i remember reading somewhere that the stock disks are not suitable for redrilling to 5x4.5 so it might be that some aftermarket ones are needed)
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I don't want to put any more money into the D30 as I do not expect to have it over the long term. The WJ swap is pretty extensive though, a friend of mine runs that setup.
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I was pretty happy with the Performance Friction pads on the front. But since mine is a 95.5 I have the dual diafram booster.
If you think the Dodge 3500 stuff will fit sounds like a good upgrade. If it will stop a 1 ton PU then it aught to do a good job on a YJ.
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But since mine is a 95.5 I have the dual diafram booster.
How do you tell the difference?
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How do you tell the difference?
Dual-diaphragm boosters are HUGE. Also, the master will be a TJ/Dakata style with a plastic reservoir.
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I was pretty happy with the Performance Friction pads on the front. But since mine is a 95.5 I have the dual diafram booster.
If you think the Dodge 3500 stuff will fit sounds like a good upgrade. If it will stop a 1 ton PU then it aught to do a good job on a YJ.
The only problem that I've heard is that the master will have clearance issues with the hood. I'm not 100% sure on it though. The Van has a much shorter reservoir then the truck which I think should work.
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Dual-diaphragm boosters are HUGE. Also, the master will be a TJ/Dakata style with a plastic reservoir.
Maybe mine is not a dual booster then. I was looking at Oldjeeps build thread and his old one looks the same as mine.(page 1) He swapped to a 78 Marquis MC. ( page 5)
http://4bangerjp.com/forums/index.php/topic,2614.0.html
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Maybe mine is not a dual booster then. I was looking at Oldjeeps build thread and his old one looks the same as mine.(page 1) He swapped to a 78 Marquis MC. ( page 5)
http://4bangerjp.com/forums/index.php/topic,2614.0.html
oldjeep's doesn't look like a dual, looks exactly like mine. i also have one off a late 95 TJ (or 96) in the garage and it's about twice the thickness of the one i have on now and i was told is the one with dual diaphragm - it came with the master with plastic reservoir on it, i was not aware there are clearance issues so i guess i'll have to figure something out when i'll make time to install it.
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Maybe mine is not a dual booster then. I was looking at Oldjeeps build thread and his old one looks the same as mine.(page 1) He swapped to a 78 Marquis MC. ( page 5)
http://4bangerjp.com/forums/index.php/topic,2614.0.html
(http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f335/Firedog111/Jeep%20Projects/Brake%20Upgrade/IMG_1928.jpg)
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oldjeep's doesn't look like a dual, looks exactly like mine. i also have one off a late 95 TJ (or 96) in the garage and it's about twice the thickness of the one i have on now and i was told is the one with dual diaphragm - it came with the master with plastic reservoir on it, i was not aware there are clearance issues so i guess i'll have to figure something out when i'll make time to install it.
If you use the stock master you'll be OK. It's when you use the larger Ram 3500 master that you run into trouble.
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(http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f335/Firedog111/Jeep%20Projects/Brake%20Upgrade/IMG_1928.jpg)
Great PIC! Mine is the bottom one. :'( I still had good luck with the PF pads. :thumb:
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Ok, I think I found a problem I'll have with the TJ booster. The YJ has that big spacer to keep it away from the clutch. The TJ does not have that and is bolted to the firewall. If I used a TJ booster, I'll have to cut and weld an extension to the booster. Problem is I don't have a welder and I'm not sure if it would be worth it compared to buying a 1995.5 booster. ARGH!
BTW: from what I've read the TJ/Dakota master is 1" while the YJ is 15/16".
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What is the advantage running the Grand Marquis MC? I have seen a few people mention they have switched to them.
I have also heard of people running a MC from a Corvette, not sure what year.
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What is the advantage running the Grand Marquis MC? I have seen a few people mention they have switched to them.
I have also heard of people running a MC from a Corvette, not sure what year.
More volume so if you have larger brakes, they will move the pistons. From what I've read the Corvette is good for CJ's, while either the Grand marquis or the E350 is good for YJ's and the 3500 is best for TJ's although, you can use the 3500 on a YJ as well.
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Another tidbit. My rear cylinders changed from 13/16" to 7/8" by going from 2.5"x9" to 2.5"x10".
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Another tidbit. My rear cylinders changed from 13/16" to 7/8" by going from 2.5"x9" to 2.5"x10".
are you locking the rear more (or easier) than before?
(http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f335/Firedog111/Jeep%20Projects/Brake%20Upgrade/IMG_1928.jpg)
the one i have (not installed yet) looks exactly like the top one (including the master) - is that the 95.5 YJ? for whatever reason i thought was an early TJ one.
Ok, I think I found a problem I'll have with the TJ booster. The YJ has that big spacer to keep it away from the clutch. The TJ does not have that and is bolted to the firewall. If I used a TJ booster, I'll have to cut and weld an extension to the booster. Problem is I don't have a welder and I'm not sure if it would be worth it compared to buying a 1995.5 booster. ARGH!
would you be able to use your old spacer for that? you would have to extend the rod however but you could use your old one and i'm thinking maybe cut and thread both ends and use a hex bar to join them.
BTW: from what I've read the TJ/Dakota master is 1" while the YJ is 15/16".
problem is that when you go to a larger diameter master you need more force/pressure at the pedal (if you keep the stock calipers) - i think i'm going to stick with the stock one unless the pedal is going all the way down to the floor and maybe upgrade if i ever end up with 2 piston calipers or hydroboost (unlikely) - not sure if the dual diaphragm booster would give enough extra pressure for the larger diam master which is what i fell i am lacking right now (no matter how hard i press the pedal the front never locks up unless it's raining).
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are you locking the rear more (or easier) than before?
the one i have (not installed yet) looks exactly like the top one (including the master) - is that the 95.5 YJ? for whatever reason i thought was an early TJ one.
A TJ unit will not have the spacer to attach it to the firewall as TJ boxes are bolted straight to the wall.
would you be able to use your old spacer for that? you would have to extend the rod however but you could use your old one and i'm thinking maybe cut and thread both ends and use a hex bar to join them.
Yes you can reuse that spacer BUT you need to extend the rod as well. Problem is I don't have the tools to do it so that makes it less practical for me. Basically you can cut and weld a sleeve in there or else weld a all thread and then a collar so you can adjust it. If you have a die, you could thread both sides and put a sleeve on there as well.
problem is that when you go to a larger diameter master you need more force/pressure at the pedal (if you keep the stock calipers) - i think i'm going to stick with the stock one unless the pedal is going all the way down to the floor and maybe upgrade if i ever end up with 2 piston calipers or hydroboost (unlikely) - not sure if the dual diaphragm booster would give enough extra pressure for the larger diam master which is what i fell i am lacking right now (no matter how hard i press the pedal the front never locks up unless it's raining).
Thing is my rear brakes aren't stock, at least not stock for a YJ. They are 7/8" (10" drums) vs 13/16" (9" drums). I know my rears are locking up, which is forcing the fronts to do even more work.
From my research, you might want to go with a smaller MC. Smaller MC will produce higher pressure.
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A TJ unit will not have the spacer to attach it to the firewall as TJ boxes are bolted straight to the wall.
i guess it's a late YJ then and should be a straight bolt-on - for some reason i remember that the threads on the master were different than mine, do you know anything about that?
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According to Jeep and my VIN #,
I have a '95 built to '96 specs.
I have the small V.B. and steel M.C.
Was this a late change to the larger setup on the '95s ?
I have also heard that the Cherokees also have the larger setup
and is a direct bolt up but no clue about the prop. valve.
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oldjeep's doesn't look like a dual, looks exactly like mine. i also have one off a late 95 TJ (or 96) in the garage and it's about twice the thickness of the one i have on now and i was told is the one with dual diaphragm - it came with the master with plastic reservoir on it, i was not aware there are clearance issues so i guess i'll have to figure something out when i'll make time to install it.
MIne is a stock single diaphram 94 booster with the Marquis master cylinder. Stock brakes up front with O'reilly house brand pads, 8.8 disc in the back with the same pads. Plenty to lock up and skid 35's on dry pavement.
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What is the advantage running the Grand Marquis MC? I have seen a few people mention they have switched to them.
I have also heard of people running a MC from a Corvette, not sure what year.
The marquis MC is only an advantage if you have 4 wheel disc brakes. The Marquis had 4 wheel disc and works great with the stock D30 fronts and 8.8 discs which are all about the same size as the stock brakes that the Mercury had. Using the Marquis MC on a disc/drum setup would be a mistake - you would loose the pressure that the drums require in favor of the volume that discs need.
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i guess it's a late YJ then and should be a straight bolt-on - for some reason i remember that the threads on the master were different than mine, do you know anything about that?
I know the YJ lines are 5/16" for the rear and 1/4" for the front. From what I've been getting the TJ lines are different then the YJ's. I haven't checked to see what size their are.
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MIne is a stock single diaphram 94 booster with the Marquis master cylinder. Stock brakes up front with O'reilly house brand pads, 8.8 disc in the back with the same pads. Plenty to lock up and skid 35's on dry pavement.
What do you use for a prop. valve, if any?
Edit: And what year range Marquis?
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What do you use for a prop. valve, if any?
Edit: And what year range Marquis?
78 Marquis with 4 wheel disc - no idea what the range is.
Stock prop valve with the o-ring removed from the piston.
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So I did a bit more research and a bit more thinking. TJ's use the larger master and the booster while still having the same brakes (stock) as most YJ's. (except pre-91's) From what I've read the pressure goes down as the volume increases. The larger master gives you the false sense of firmed brakes because they have less pressure for every inch of travel. The exception is if you increase the booster pressure. So as long as you increase the booster pressure along with the larger master, it should be OK when using with stock brakes.
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The catch is that if you use the booster to increase the pressure
on the master cylinder the pressure ramp in the system becomes
abrupt, so the brakes become grabby if you overdo it.
I'm running the same up sized rear brakes from a 87 Cherokee,
not only is the diameter larger the shoe is 2" instead of 1.75"
I've thought about dropping the booster completely and
using dual Wilwood cylinders instead. With each one sized
to match its side of the brake circuit and it would give me a
biasing adjustment as a bonus.
Dave
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The catch is that if you use the booster to increase the pressure
on the master cylinder the pressure ramp in the system becomes
abrupt, so the brakes become grabby if you overdo it.
I'm running the same up sized rear brakes from a 87 Cherokee,
not only is the diameter larger the shoe is 2" instead of 1.75"
I've thought about dropping the booster completely and
using dual Wilwood cylinders instead. With each one sized
to match its side of the brake circuit and it would give me a
biasing adjustment as a bonus.
Dave
Well, I would think that the TJ setup would be good for someone who has a stock setup. It might even work for us as well. From '84-'90 the normal rear drums were 9"x1.75", with the exception for the D44 which is 10"x2.5". In 1991, the rear brakes were changed to 9"x2.5" on the D35c. I'm not sure what the brakes were for the 8.25" though.
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From '84-'90 the normal rear drums were 9"x1.75", with the exception for the D44 which is 10"x2.5". In 1991, the rear brakes were changed to 9"x2.5" on the D35c. I'm not sure what the brakes were for the 8.25" though.
would the change in drum size go along with the introduction of the c-clip to the d35c or on the actually year... IIRC the c-clips where a mid year (1990) introduction) Faq says clips where introduced in 91 but my 1990 has c-clips which is the bases of my thinking not that it maters that much....
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would the change in drum size go along with the introduction of the c-clip to the d35c or on the actually year... IIRC the c-clips where a mid year (1990) introduction) Faq says clips where introduced in 91 but my 1990 has c-clips which is the bases of my thinking not that it maters that much....
Yes, the changed correspond with the model update. 1990 was the transition year BUT 1991 is the production year. This means that they started building the '91's in 1990 and so late model 90's could very well see some '91 changes.
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All I know is...Caddy calipers suck on D60's...they just don't fit...and are a bitch to adjust....who needs an emergency brake?? I need real brakes.... :brick:
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All I know is...Caddy calipers suck on D60's...they just don't fit...and are a fruit cups to adjust....who needs an emergency brake?? I need real brakes.... :brick:
Yup, caddy calipers are too small. I ran Chevy 1/2 ton D44 front calipers on the rear 60 in my CJ, worked great.
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So I did a bit more research and a bit more thinking. TJ's use the larger master and the booster while still having the same brakes (stock) as most YJ's. (except pre-91's) From what I've read the pressure goes down as the volume increases. The larger master gives you the false sense of firmed brakes because they have less pressure for every inch of travel. The exception is if you increase the booster pressure. So as long as you increase the booster pressure along with the larger master, it should be OK when using with stock brakes.
Except that braking power increases on disc brakes with increased fluid volume. You want pressure for drums and volume for discs.
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Except that braking power increases on disc brakes with increased fluid volume. You want pressure for drums and volume for discs.
That's why I said STOCK brakes. Use upgraded discs or drums and you'll need more volume.
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Except that braking power increases on disc brakes with increased fluid volume. You want pressure for drums and volume for discs.
sorry man but is the other way around, hope you won't take this the wrong way but i'll try to explain.
pressure=lbs/sqin - the smaller the diameter of the cyl (EDIT: master cylinder) the higher the pressure (applied force is in lbs, surface area of the piston in the master cylinder is in square inches). At the caliper is the other way around as the force with which the piston squeezes the pads
applied_force=piston_surface_area*pressure.
so whatever force you apply at the brake pedal is transformed in hydraulic pressure inside the braking system and then at the caliper is transformed in force by the caliper piston(s).
as a matter of fact it varies with the square of the diameter since the piston surface area is PI*Radius^2 (that is 3.14 times square radius)
it might be that on some calipers you need higher volume, that can be because they are larger so in that case you need a larger diam master so you don't reach the end of the travel on your brake pedal (and also you get more clamping force at the caliper due to larger pistons there, so you can have a larger master with no drop in braking performance)
so for the sake of an example (dimensions are exaggerated to simplify the math) if you have a master with a 2'' diameter (1 inch in radius) and you apply a force of 20lbs at the pedal that would result in a pressure of (20 lbs)/(PI*1*1 sq.in.)= 20/3.14 lbs/sqin. If you have a caliper with an 8 inch diameter piston (4 inch radius) the resulting clamping force is (hydraulic_pressure)*PI*4*4= (20/3.14)*3.14*16=320lbs. Now if you have a master with a 4 inch diameter (double than the one before, so a 2'' radius) the pressure will be 20/PI*2*2 = (5/3.14)lbs/sqin and therefore the clamping force at the caliper is (5/3.14)*3.14*16 = 80 lbs, so compare that with 320lbs in the first example a master twice in size will give you 4 times less braking clamping force.
EDIT: I didn't account for the booster added force to the master but that is the same in both instances so for this example is not relevant.
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I'm talking about the amount of fluid moved via the reservoirs, not the bore of the MC.
sorry man but is the other way around, hope you won't take this the wrong way but i'll try to explain.
pressure=lbs/sqin - the smaller the diameter of the cyl (EDIT: master cylinder) the higher the pressure (applied force is in lbs, surface area of the piston in the master cylinder is in square inches). At the caliper is the other way around as the force with which the piston squeezes the pads
applied_force=piston_surface_area*pressure.
so whatever force you apply at the brake pedal is transformed in hydraulic pressure inside the braking system and then at the caliper is transformed in force by the caliper piston(s).
as a matter of fact it varies with the square of the diameter since the piston surface area is PI*Radius^2 (that is 3.14 times square radius)
it might be that on some calipers you need higher volume, that can be because they are larger so in that case you need a larger diam master so you don't reach the end of the travel on your brake pedal (and also you get more clamping force at the caliper due to larger pistons there, so you can have a larger master with no drop in braking performance)
so for the sake of an example (dimensions are exaggerated to simplify the math) if you have a master with a 2'' diameter (1 inch in radius) and you apply a force of 20lbs at the pedal that would result in a pressure of (20 lbs)/(PI*1*1 sq.in.)= 20/3.14 lbs/sqin. If you have a caliper with an 8 inch diameter piston (4 inch radius) the resulting clamping force is (hydraulic_pressure)*PI*4*4= (20/3.14)*3.14*16=320lbs. Now if you have a master with a 4 inch diameter (double than the one before, so a 2'' radius) the pressure will be 20/PI*2*2 = (5/3.14)lbs/sqin and therefore the clamping force at the caliper is (5/3.14)*3.14*16 = 80 lbs, so compare that with 320lbs in the first example a master twice in size will give you 4 times less braking clamping force.
EDIT: I didn't account for the booster added force to the master but that is the same in both instances so for this example is not relevant.
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I'm talking about the amount of fluid moved via the reservoirs, not the bore of the MC.
i guess i misunderstood since the larger the bore the more volume you get - you also get more volume with more travel but didn't think of that at the time.
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Yup, caddy calipers are too small. I ran Chevy 1/2 ton D44 front calipers on the rear 60 in my CJ, worked great.
Yep...looking at bolt on mid 80's GM truck calipers instead so I can keep my big rotors.
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I swapped in the '95 booster and master.
It actually made a really big difference.
Since it is all stock, it was pretty easy w/out any fabbing.
The only thing I needed was adapters to go from my brake lines to the new master.
(http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b183/c_zielsdorf/Car%20Pics/Jeep%20Wrangler/IMG_1016.jpg)
My '92 MC has a front fitting that is 5/16, the rear is 1/4 and uses inverted flare fittings.
The '95 uses a M12 on the front, and a M10 on the rear with bubble flare fittings.
So, not only do you have to change the fitting size, you have to change the fitting type.
It would be easiest if a one piece adapter existed, but I can't seem to find one.
SO, on the '95 master, I am using 3 fittings on one and 2 on the other. It works, but is pretty ugly.
Here is a quick'n'dirty install:
This project goes better if you bench bleed the MC before installation.
The booster studs are different on the '95 than on my '92. Make sure you get the correct nuts before starting! Oddly enough, the '92 spacer/booster nuts worked on the '95 booster/MC studs. I only needed new booster/spacer nuts.
Remember to chock your wheels!
Okay, with the adapters, MC, and booster in hand I started the project.
Start inside the cab, looking up at the pedal/pushrod union.
The pedal on my '92 had an odd retaining clip for the push rod.
Pop this loose and wiggle the rod off the pedal.
Unbolt the MC from the booster and gently move it aside without damaging the brake lines.
On my '92, I did not have to unbolt the spacer from inside the cab. I just unbolted the booster from the spacer.
I needed to remove the airbox, and unplug the vacuum line from the booster.
The old booster pulled out pretty easily.
The new '95 booster came with a boot installed on the push rod, so I discarded the old '92 protective cover.
Before sliding the booster flush to the spacer, go into the cab and line up the push rod with the pedal to prevent any binding.
The new booster slid onto the spacer with a little persuading. The studs are larger, but go in without any hassle. I was prepared to drill out the spacer holes, but did not need to.
After checking alignment with the pedal, push the booster the rest of the way in. Go into the cab and slide the push rod onto the pedal, reinstall the retaining clip.
Tighten the nuts on the booster to spacer.
I then installed the adapters on my bench bled '95 MC.
Unbolt the brake lines from the old MC.
Carefully bend the lines over from the passenger side to the new drivers side location for the new MC.
Loosely thread the lines into the adapter on the new MC.
Install a new MC to booster seal. My booster came with a new seal.
Carefully install the new MC onto the booster, taking care that the pushrod slides into the MC.
The studs are a different size than the '92 so install and tighten the new nuts.
You should now be able to do any final tweaking of the brake lines.
Tighten the brake lines and top off the MC with DOT 3 fluid.
Reinstall the vacuum line to the new booster, and the airbox.
Go back into the cab and contort yourself to get a good view of the pedal, pushrod, and sensor switch.
On the '92 pull/push the threaded switch toward the pedal until there is contact with the pedal and switch "button".
My brake lights stayed on after this swap and I needed to adjust the switch.
After testing the brakes at a VERY slow speed and verifying that there were no leaks I took it for a spin.
Everything seems fine.
I am going to let the brakes gravity bleed over night.
If there is any air in the line (squishy pedal) I will bleed them.
I will comment on the effectiveness of this swap after driving it for a few days.
So, there is a breakdown of the install.
I am sorry I didn't have any pics. I had to do this at 10 at night to keep my apartment manager from griping at me.
This little project took me about 45 minutes.
Tools I recommend are a good set of flare wrenches and racheting end wrenches (the space between the booster spacer and firewall pretty tight).
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Was this '95 booster offered with ABS brakes, tow package or something like that? My YJ is a late '95 with TJ style oil pan, TJ style windshield hood rubber bumpes, etc. and does not have this large booster :confused:
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The way to get around the adapter issue is to take the brake lines
from the master to the prop valve to a hydraulic shop and have
them change the MC ends. They can put the correct flare on tube
and the correct fittings.
So will the earlier 92-94 MC fit the 95 booster?
I don't remember if any body asked...
Dave
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The problem with the 1995 booster is that it seems to be only used by the late 1995 Jeep. I couldn't find anything else that used it. Also, it's not all 1995 so you have to know what you're looking for. I would use the new master as it's just slightly larger and the one that TJ's use with the same stock brakes. The older master should fit though.
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That's what I would have guessed.
I'm going to be doing the brakes on my
YJ pretty soon and I'm thinking of a upgrade.
Wish they had used Bolted calipers instead of the sliders,
woulda made things way easier...
Has anybody messed around with the 1/2 ton rotors and
calipers off a full size dodge pickup? AS I recall some were
the same bolt pattern 5x4.5.
Dave
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That's what I would have guessed.
I'm going to be doing the brakes on my
YJ pretty soon and I'm thinking of a upgrade.
Wish they had used Bolted calipers instead of the sliders,
woulda made things way easier...
Has anybody messed around with the 1/2 ton rotors and
calipers off a full size dodge pickup? AS I recall some were
the same bolt pattern 5x4.5.
Dave
Have you checked out Vanco's brakes?
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Was this '95 booster offered with ABS brakes, tow package or something like that? My YJ is a late '95 with TJ style oil pan, TJ style windshield hood rubber bumpes, etc. and does not have this large booster :confused:
my '95 has a single diaphragm as well, but i did find one at the junkyard and pulled the booster and MC off of it, need to find some time to install it - and it seems that i am in for some fun with the fittings.
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I swapped in the '95 booster and master.
It actually made a really big difference.
Since it is all stock, it was pretty easy w/out any fabbing.
The only thing I needed was adapters to go from my brake lines to the new master.
[...]
So, there is a breakdown of the install.
I am sorry I didn't have any pics. I had to do this at 10 at night to keep my apartment manager from griping at me.
This little project took me about 45 minutes.
Tools I recommend are a good set of flare wrenches and racheting end wrenches (the space between the booster spacer and firewall pretty tight).
thanks for all the great info, nice update :clap:
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thanks for all the great info, nice update :clap:
X2! Now I'm thinking about going this route!
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I swapped in the '95 booster and master.
It actually made a really big difference.
Since it is all stock, it was pretty easy w/out any fabbing.
The only thing I needed was adapters to go from my brake lines to the new master.
(http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b183/c_zielsdorf/Car%20Pics/Jeep%20Wrangler/IMG_1016.jpg)
My '92 MC has a front fitting that is 5/16, the rear is 1/4 and uses inverted flare fittings.
The '95 uses a M12 on the front, and a M10 on the rear with bubble flare fittings.
So, not only do you have to change the fitting size, you have to change the fitting type.
It would be easiest if a one piece adapter existed, but I can't seem to find one.
SO, on the '95 master, I am using 3 fittings on one and 2 on the other. It works, but is pretty ugly.
Here is a quick'n'dirty install:
This project goes better if you bench bleed the MC before installation.
The booster studs are different on the '95 than on my '92. Make sure you get the correct nuts before starting! Oddly enough, the '92 spacer/booster nuts worked on the '95 booster/MC studs. I only needed new booster/spacer nuts.
Remember to chock your wheels!
Okay, with the adapters, MC, and booster in hand I started the project.
Start inside the cab, looking up at the pedal/pushrod union.
The pedal on my '92 had an odd retaining clip for the push rod.
Pop this loose and wiggle the rod off the pedal.
Unbolt the MC from the booster and gently move it aside without damaging the brake lines.
On my '92, I did not have to unbolt the spacer from inside the cab. I just unbolted the booster from the spacer.
I needed to remove the airbox, and unplug the vacuum line from the booster.
The old booster pulled out pretty easily.
The new '95 booster came with a boot installed on the push rod, so I discarded the old '92 protective cover.
Before sliding the booster flush to the spacer, go into the cab and line up the push rod with the pedal to prevent any binding.
The new booster slid onto the spacer with a little persuading. The studs are larger, but go in without any hassle. I was prepared to drill out the spacer holes, but did not need to.
After checking alignment with the pedal, push the booster the rest of the way in. Go into the cab and slide the push rod onto the pedal, reinstall the retaining clip.
Tighten the nuts on the booster to spacer.
I then installed the adapters on my bench bled '95 MC.
Unbolt the brake lines from the old MC.
Carefully bend the lines over from the passenger side to the new drivers side location for the new MC.
Loosely thread the lines into the adapter on the new MC.
Install a new MC to booster seal. My booster came with a new seal.
Carefully install the new MC onto the booster, taking care that the pushrod slides into the MC.
The studs are a different size than the '92 so install and tighten the new nuts.
You should now be able to do any final tweaking of the brake lines.
Tighten the brake lines and top off the MC with DOT 3 fluid.
Reinstall the vacuum line to the new booster, and the airbox.
Go back into the cab and contort yourself to get a good view of the pedal, pushrod, and sensor switch.
On the '92 pull/push the threaded switch toward the pedal until there is contact with the pedal and switch "button".
My brake lights stayed on after this swap and I needed to adjust the switch.
After testing the brakes at a VERY slow speed and verifying that there were no leaks I took it for a spin.
Everything seems fine.
I am going to let the brakes gravity bleed over night.
If there is any air in the line (squishy pedal) I will bleed them.
I will comment on the effectiveness of this swap after driving it for a few days.
So, there is a breakdown of the install.
I am sorry I didn't have any pics. I had to do this at 10 at night to keep my apartment manager from griping at me.
This little project took me about 45 minutes.
Tools I recommend are a good set of flare wrenches and racheting end wrenches (the space between the booster spacer and firewall pretty tight).
So, any update on how this has worked after some more driving? I am interested in going this route (especially because it is something I can do on my parent's garage in one evening which should not make my mom TOO mad!), but I want to be sure that the braking difference is drastic! To be honest, I am having a hard time driving in traffic with the 33's because I feel the Jeep is simply not stopping fast enough...
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It works great.
You can also swap in WJ knuckles, and get the bigger Grand Cherokee brakes.
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It works great.
You can also swap in WJ knuckles, and get the bigger Grand Cherokee brakes.
Ideally, I would, but considering that the Jeep is in my mother's house (and the very presence of the Jeep there bothers her), I doubt she would look at it in good light if I started tearing the Jeep apart in her driveway... Plus, I only got limited tools in Panama (all the tools are in Costa Rica), so that would also be an issue. I still have not discarted the idea, but it is not at the top of the list right now (the booster, however, is).