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General Forums => The Mess Hall => Topic started by: stan98tj on October 19, 2009, 09:48:12 PM
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i starting to become interested in lockers. this is a subject i am not very well versed in. i understand the basic principles but thats about it. i recently heard about Aussie lockers. Anyone run this brand? seems they are "auto locking" and not electronic. Im assuming they only come into play while engaged in 4wd so 2wd is left w/o any chance of locking on ya while on the pavement. What if you were driving in snow in 4wd while on a rpad or highway, would there be concerns if it senses wheel slip and locks on ya while ur on ice or slushy snow? It seems WAY cheaper priced than the other brands, ARB, OX etc. aside from ARB needing a air tank and Ox having a selector switch, what is the difference? My buddy bought one of these aussie lockers and hasnt installed it yet-i read some nice reviews about it. but some say your turning radius is reduced while in 4wd, though. and apparently they click while turning. for under 300 bucks is this a decent product? please feel free to tear this product apart or build it up whatever your experience with them.
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I've got an Aussie locker in the front end and the rear end is still open. I've had the Aussie in the front for three years and haven't had any problems. Totally silent on road and off as far as I can tell. Might help its smoothness of operation if you use synthetic gear oil with it like I do.
I live in the southwest US and don't encounter much in the way of snow/rain/slick conditions. If you are in an area that gets a lot of bad weather where you are driving in 4wd on-road, you might be better off with driver adjustable lockers like an OX, ARB.
But I've had nothing but positive results with the relatively low-priced Aussie in the D30. Frankly they could charge twice the price for the thing and it'd still be a good deal.
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Chris the big difference for you on road is that you disconnect the right front axle shaft so in essence the front diff is still open in 2 wheel drive. A TJ does not have that feature sp it might make for some funny steering in snow and ice. Is something has to try. Does an ausie locker work? I would say yes< Ihave seen you do some funny stuff with your Jeep Chris. Would I trade my ARB's hell no. If you have the coin, an ARB, OX or DEtroit locker in the rear is the ticket and an ARB or OX up front will make for a very sweet setup, once you get lockers tough things will escalate, bigger tires axle shafts all kinds of spendy stuff will end up on your Jeep
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I've got Aussies front and rear, and live in the land of ice and snow. You have to learn how to drive with a real locker, after that you have no problems.
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You still have the D35 rear, right? If so you probably don't want to lock the rear yet. As far as the front I'd prefer a selectable locker. Not just for road manners but on the trail as well. It's nice to have an open front in the tight and twisty trails around here and just lock it up when you need to.
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It's nice to have an open front in the tight and twisty trails around here and just lock it up when you need to.
I hear people say that and I never understand why. Unless you are on the gas hard, an automatic locker does not stay locked on a twisty trail. The trails we use are barely wide enough for a wrangler and twist and turn a lot. I've never had issue running Aussies or Detroits in the front.
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A locker is the single best investment for Jeeping capability. It will let you go places you though were impossible before. The downside is that you will lose the "underdog status" which I actually used to enjoy.
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Since you mentioned you are not well versed, I'll point out some basics...
First of all, there are different types of lockers: Selectable lockers, automatic lockers, and limited slips.
Lets start with limited slips: they are not really "lockers", but they are traction aids. As the name implies, if a tire slips, they do not let all the power go out that tire, but rather limit the speed diferential between tires and apply SOME power to the wheel with traction. However, most of the power will go on the side with no traction (in most cases, but it will finally depend on the LS itself). Limited slips are not so bad on road, but are not so good offroad either, as they offer less traction than a real locker (but are still better than an open differential). They are kind of a middle of the road compromise, in my opinion.
Automatic lockers, as the name implies, lock on and off automatically. They tend to be cheaper than selectable lockers, but they do have some down sides, particularly, on road manners (here I am generalizing, but the road manners will depend on the brand of locker). Depending on the brand, and automatic locker can cause your Jeep to change lanes suddenly and unexpectedly when accellarating (if you are not used to driving with it), and can make clicking noise that are loud enough to scare some passangers.
Selectable lockers basically mean that you can select to have your axles locked or open (in some cases, open is replaced with limited slip). They come in 3 main varieties: air (AIR and the new OX), cable (OX) or electronically actuated (ECTED and another one I cant remember right now). ARB and OX basically are locked/Open, so that means that the Jeep will behave on the street just like it does with open diffs, but you have the option to lock the axles at will. In the case of the ECTED, they actually dont lock the axles, but rather vary the proportion of the limited slip as far as I understand, so that the proportion is very low when "locked" and much higher when "unlocked". For me, the choice is basically between OX and ARB, as both have passed the test of time, and I prefer the selectable lockers to the automatic lockers (This does not mean Detroit is a bad option, just that I prefer the selectable part)
For your choice, you need to consider what you want to achieve with your lockers, how much you want to sped, and, if you still have the D35, what you will do about the rear axle (D35's in stock form dont like to be locked up; they can granade on you if you have large tires). In my case, I went with alloy axles on 30 splines (and still, it is not considered a strong axle!) and used ARB lockers both front and rear. I am very happy with my decission. The down side of the ARB is that you need an additional air compressor to run it, but since I wanted OBA anyway, for me it was not an issue, as now I can fill up my tires after leaving the trail...
Felipe
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(ECTED and another one I cant remember right now)
the other one is Eaton e-locker (i bought one for my D30) - could be other ones as well out there, i chose this one as it had the 30 spline version for the front - this is an open diff that is locked when activated, not limited slip, works on the same principle as the ox and arb. I think OX has a new version that is electronically actuated as well, i'm not sure though.
Auburn ected is an LSD (limited slip) that increases the clamping force when activated (bought a 30 spline one for my D35) - from what i read they are pretty much locked when activated, can't vouch for that since neither one is installed yet :(. Apparently the downside is that it takes a bit to get them disengaged, since it's rear is not that critical, they have had bad reviews when using in the front.
seems that all of them have pros and cons, the reviews i read about ox mentioned the issue with having to readjust the cable sometimes, auburn won't disengage and not being a fully locked diff, for arb some air leaking issues - but the feeling i got from all the reviews is that the ARB is the best option out there.
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the other one is Eaton e-locker (i bought one for my D30) - could be other ones as well out there, i chose this one as it had the 30 spline version for the front - this is an open diff that is locked when activated, not limited slip, works on the same principle as the ox and arb. I think OX has a new version that is electronically actuated as well, i'm not sure though.
Auburn ected is an LSD (limited slip) that increases the clamping force when activated (bought a 30 spline one for my D35) - from what i read they are pretty much locked when activated, can't vouch for that since neither one is installed yet :(. Apparently the downside is that it takes a bit to get them disengaged, since it's rear is not that critical, they have had bad reviews when using in the front.
seems that all of them have pros and cons, the reviews i read about ox mentioned the issue with having to readjust the cable sometimes, auburn won't disengage and not being a fully locked diff, for arb some air leaking issues - but the feeling i got from all the reviews is that the ARB is the best option out there.
You are right; I have a couple of buddies that run OX lockers, and if the cable is not adjusted properly, they will not engage (however, with the cable properly engaged, they are pretty much bullet proof). With ARB's you could have air leaks, but I have found that carrying quick connecting couplers, you can fix any air leaks in seconds by simply cutting the line and using the coupler (you still got the downside that ARB's are expensive, and you need the comrpessor).
My best advice for a quick rundown on lockers is to check out this (http://www.jpmagazine.com/techarticles/drivetrain/154_0910_jeep_locker_overview/index.html) article by JP magazine...
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excellent stuff guys, i appreciate all the responses to the post. the fact of sudden lane changes and weird steering doesnt seem appealing to me. my buddy bought the aussie and hasnt installed it yet-i think i may wait and see how he likes it and how it reacts in the snow while on pavement. from the responses here i think i like the idea of having the ability to lock/unlock the front on command rather than an automatic setup. the price here is def the issue-under 300 for a locker seems real nice-but since it snows nice and hard here in the winter im basically always in 4wd in the snow, and i must say the jeep handles real well with stock open diffs while in 4wd in snowy conditions, i dont think id like to add a system that may act weird in those conditions. on the trail however, an aussie locker seems to be without much fault-locks when it needs to and seems to perform well from what ive read. i just dont think id like to have it lock/unlock on me while on a snow covered street.
for those of you who have an aussie (automatic) set up and live in snowy areas, can you elaborate on the driving adjustments needed to drive safely? this may be too vague of a question, what might be helpful would be for you to tell me how it would behave in these conditions.
by the way, my axles are still stock so 30s up front and 35s rear, right? and id be interested in locking the front-i have this idea that lockin the front will make a world of difference as the front is most of the time going to be the first part of the vehicle to engage an obsticle.
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for those of you who have an aussie (automatic) set up and live in snowy areas, can you elaborate on the driving adjustments needed to drive safely? this may be too vague of a question, what might be helpful would be for you to tell me how it would behave in these conditions.
Don't hit the gas when cornering - That's the only adjustment needed.
Are you saying that you actually drive on the road in 4wd?
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Don't hit the gas when cornering - That's the only adjustment needed.
Are you saying that you actually drive on the road in 4wd?
when it's covered in snow 3 inches or more i do. keep a slow speed and drives just fine. if its just a dusting i def dont drive it in 4wd. i hope thats not a bad idea. i try to use 2wd as for as long as i can but soon as the snow inches over 3" the front tires catch and she'll slide left and right etc,soon as 4wd is engaged drives through like a champ.
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Chris the big difference for you on road is that you disconnect the right front axle shaft so in essence the front diff is still open in 2 wheel drive. A TJ does not have that feature sp it might make for some funny steering in snow and ice. Is something has to try. Does an ausie locker work? I would say yes< Ihave seen you do some funny stuff with your Jeep Chris. Would I trade my ARB's hell no. If you have the coin, an ARB, OX or DEtroit locker in the rear is the ticket and an ARB or OX up front will make for a very sweet setup, once you get lockers tough things will escalate, bigger tires axle shafts all kinds of spendy stuff will end up on your Jeep
Well you know me, Art. I'm just jealous of your ARBs ;) But Aussies are not a bad lunch-box
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when it's covered in snow 3 inches or more i do. keep a slow speed and drives just fine. if its just a dusting i def dont drive it in 4wd. i hope thats not a bad idea. i try to use 2wd as for as long as i can but soon as the snow inches over 3" the front tires catch and she'll slide left and right etc,soon as 4wd is engaged drives through like a champ.
If it works for you, just watch out for the dry spots. Can't say that I've ever enguaged a part time system on the highway before, but I don't buy 4wd in my DD pickups either.
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Ive read alot about lockers making people change lanes and crazy handeling , is that just a jeep thing? Because I have had a few chevys locked from the factory and have never experienced anything like that.My daily driver 2003 vortec s-10 is locked.The reason I ask is because I too was wanting to lock up the jeep
Automatic lockers, as the name implies, lock on and off automatically. They tend to be cheaper than selectable lockers, but they do have some down sides, particularly, on road manners (here I am generalizing, but the road manners will depend on the brand of locker). Depending on the brand, and automatic locker can cause your Jeep to change lanes suddenly and unexpectedly when accellarating (if you are not used to driving with it), and can make clicking noise that are loud enough to scare some passangers.
Felipe
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Ive read alot about lockers making people change lanes and crazy handeling , is that just a jeep thing? Because I have had a few chevys locked from the factory and have never experienced anything like that.My daily driver 2003 vortec s-10 is locked.The reason I ask is because I too was wanting to lock up the jeep
Most OEM differentials (Torsen included)are Limited Slip type and are a lot more mild then a true locker. They may be high bias but they are not truly 1:1 like a locker. Most of the lane shifting is because of the driver. Either they shifted or feathered the throttle or some other input.
With that said, a full locker like a Detroit will not only be stronger but also smoother then a drop-in/Lunch Box locker.
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Ive read alot about lockers making people change lanes and crazy handeling , is that just a jeep thing? Because I have had a few chevys locked from the factory and have never experienced anything like that.My daily driver 2003 vortec s-10 is locked.The reason I ask is because I too was wanting to lock up the jeep
Not too many real lockers from the factory. Most are limited slips. The exceptions are things like the 14 bolt GovLock and the detroit locker found in the front D60 of Chevy Military vehicles.
As for the crazy handling, I've been running automatic lockers like Detroits, lok rites and Aussies for almost 20 years and have not experienced stuff like that.
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I put a lockright locker in the rear of mine it does have some handling differences but nothing major. just have to remember to get of the gas doing sharp turns and stuff is about all cause it will lock and chirp tires or try and push you forward instaid of turn lol.
the factory GM G80 lockers only lock at low speeds and are open diff/limited slip at high speeds
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tTGZOJQQBeE&feature=player_embedded (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tTGZOJQQBeE&feature=player_embedded)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KbMZ9vcYVSg&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KbMZ9vcYVSg&feature=related)
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will something like an aussie take away from daily drivability? i feel like for me personally id like to have something i can switch on and off at will...
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if i do settle on a selectable locker-when off road, if i need to turn while locked would i then have to unlock?
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if i do settle on a selectable locker-when off road, if i need to turn while locked would i then have to unlock?
Yes, unless the surface you are driving on allows the tires to slip. On dry pavement you would get chirping, and you only get so many axle twist cycles before they snap.
Here's my favorite picture of what can happen when you run a spool on the street - the shafts from my old CJ
(http://oldjeep.com/images/winter0304projects/Winter0304Projects%20005.jpg)
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Yes, unless the surface you are driving on allows the tires to slip. On dry pavement you would get chirping, and you only get so many axle twist cycles before they snap.
Here's my favorite picture of what can happen when you run a spool on the street - the shafts from my old CJ
(http://oldjeep.com/images/winter0304projects/Winter0304Projects%20005.jpg)
well if it's a selectable locker then i wont have a problem drivin in 4wd when it's snowed above 3" im worried something like an aussie may lock and unlock if im in 4wd in the snow...and then i may have a problem
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well if it's a selectable locker then i wont have a problem drivin in 4wd when it's snowed above 3" im worried something like an aussie may lock and unlock if im in 4wd in the snow...and then i may have a problem
Then I would ignore the experience of others who have automatic lockers and go with your fear, and an ARB ;)
Seriously though it sounds like you need to take a winter driving course if you think that 4wd on the street is a neccessity.
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Then I would ignore the experience of others who have automatic lockers and go with your fear, and an ARB ;)
Seriously though it sounds like you need to take a winter driving course if you think that 4wd on the street is a neccessity.
ya the auto lockers like aussie and lockright are full time lockers if your on the gas or have load on the drive shaft aka automatic there locked they will clunk and ratchet noise and feel on corners if you don't have your foot in it. I'm standard and can throw it in neutral when it does that and it goes away. it's a normal condition for those lockers. another guy in the club has assie in hes xj and is running bias play tires and if hes air presures change from one side to the other it causes some weird things to happened also.
Most people go for the lockright and aussie simply to save $$$ and easy install due to it using you stock carrier just replaces the spiders. I had mine put in less then 45mins in and out of the shop here at work.
going with a air locker or electric locker is better for daily driver for sure.
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Seriously though it sounds like you need to take a winter driving course if you think that 4wd on the street is a neccessity.
depends on where you live, California maybe not so much but if you have 3 feet (not 3 inches) of snow on the street with only one wheel spinning in the rear i don't think you're going anywhere - 4wd is great for snow, I always use it and recommend it to anyone driving in such conditions, improves traction and braking as well, lot safer too.
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depends on where you live, California maybe not so much but if you have 3 feet (not 3 inches) of snow on the street with only one wheel spinning in the rear i don't think you're going anywhere - 4wd is great for snow, I always use it and recommend it to anyone driving in such conditions, improves traction and braking as well, lot safer too.
I live in Minnesota - we get a little snow here :roflol:
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I live in Minnesota - we get a little snow here :roflol:
wait till you take a trip to Canada :guns:
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wait till you take a trip to Canada :guns:
Spent 4 years taking trips to Nelson BC and other transmitter bases putting in transmitter monitoring for CBC. Never had a 4wd there either.
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Yes, unless the surface you are driving on allows the tires to slip. On dry pavement you would get chirping, and you only get so many axle twist cycles before they snap.
Here's my favorite picture of what can happen when you run a spool on the street - the shafts from my old CJ
(http://oldjeep.com/images/winter0304projects/Winter0304Projects%20005.jpg)
it's amazing that they didn't snap - probably in a YJ/TJ dana 35 one of them would've give way rather than twist.
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They could be alloys... Alloys tend to twist more than stock, which tends to break/snap.
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Spent 4 years taking trips to Nelson BC and other transmitter bases putting in transmitter monitoring for CBC. Never had a 4wd there either.
ok, i thought we're talking about driving a Jeep (CJ/YJ/TJ) in the snow, other vehicles is a different ball game so i'm not going to get into that. Chains work great too - on some roads here they are mandatory when you have snowfall.
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They could be alloys... Alloys tend to twist more than stock, which tends to break/snap.
Alloys - LOL
Original equipment 1946 Dana 41 shafts. Heat treating wasn't the same in those days, things would bend or twist rather than snap
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Seriously though it sounds like you need to take a winter driving course if you think that 4wd on the street is a neccessity.
it's all the damn hills around where i live. makes it nearly impossible to get up in 2wd. all it takes is anything above 3 inches, when it's still powder it's good to go in 2wd, soon as you get the traffic impact on it and it turns to ice underneath, ur not going anywhere up those hills. i towed a ford ranger last winter on our last snow storm. guy was sideways on the street blocking both lanes and could barely move a few feet to get over to the side..i threw him a tow line, popped it into 4wd and towed him about a mile and a half uphill to his house. in his defense, he only had 2wd. But it boosted my ego like none other-proud of my four banger on that day.
By the way, last year was odd with the snow..snowed once-twice a week over 3 inches per storm for over a month and a half -so it was unseasonably snowy, even for CT. Ive only had the jeep for a year, so i don't know what its like to drive it during a normal winter when it doesnt snow as much. Ive driven other 2wd vehicles in regular snow before and had no problems...they just dont make it up the hills around here.
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we get snow storms here to in Northern Ontario Canada but it's not inches ist feet of snow in a a hour + depending on the storm. but don't always need 4x4 in it though like he said the deep stuff isn't what you worry about it's when it's hard and ice. especially if your running your mud tires in the winter. I have ran my muds every winter and haven't been stuck yet. will be my first year with my lockright in the winter but can't see it being a prob I will be more happy that if i spin a tire it won't chirp my tires off in intersections. also this year someone had given me money to clean out there back yard and there was several old tires back there. sold what was decent and found a set of 4 snows with 3/4 tread left.. stock size mind you but whatever they were cheaper then free so I'm going to run them lol
can't see the locker posing any probs for me though just have to be careful not to you the skinny peddle to much when turning. well unless you like driving sideways witch some times I do lol :thumb:
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I got to say that I've never driven my 4banger on a slick surface -- snow, ice, rain, but especially deep snow -- in 4wd high or even 2wd with the Aussie I have in the front end. But even if I had Aussies in the front and back and was living in an area with good range of weather, something tells me that I'd probably learn to drive the jeep just fine on slick surfaces with inches of snow etc even in 4wd high. I'd air down the tires, drive a lot slower, try to weigh down the front and back more with winch, bumper tools etc. :wall: Guys with Aussies or any autolocker front/rear would probably say even all that isn't really necessary.
Where I'd get a little concerned is if somebody else was driving it who wasn't accustomed to it though. There I could see things going youtube (girlfriend sliding in to a tree, hot-rod kid jumping a center median in to on-coming traffic, that kind of stuff)
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Where I'd get a little concerned is if somebody else was driving it who wasn't accustomed to it though. There I could see things going youtube (girlfriend sliding in to a tree, hot-rod kid jumping a center median in to on-coming traffic, that kind of stuff)
you just hit the nail on the head!!
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I tried several, I run ARB's now, I don't like the detroits manners, just personnel preference.
I had a true track but I broke it, while it worked it was great in ice and snow.
I may not "Need" 4x4 in snow and Ice. But I am damn sure safer with it than without it... so I WANT it :stick:
YMMV
Dave
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I tried several, I run ARB's now, I don't like the detroits manners, just personnel preference.
I had a true track but I broke it, while it worked it was great in ice and snow.
I may not "Need" 4x4 in snow and Ice. But I am damn sure safer with it than without it... so I WANT it :stick:
YMMV
Dave
whats the true track? ya the Detroit is worse then the lockright i think to when it kicks in it's violent and bangs and clangs.
my buddy has one in his ford supper duty.
and it is true about the 4x4 in snow and ice it's much safer with it when my g/f takes It in bad weather I tell just stick it in 4x4 unless it's dry pavement and take it easy.
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Detroit softlockers are supposed to have somewhat better manners, still if you have the coin ARB's are a hard act to beat, love mine and see no reason what so ever to use any other locker, these things have been very reliable ofr me and have seen quite extensive trail use
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ya may as well use 4wd in the snow if ya have it..why take the risk even if you feel that you in fact are michael schumacher behind the wheel of your 4 banger. Everyone around me who has it, uses it...esp with all the hills around me. that being said, i think i may want to go for an Ox locker so i can decide when i want to lock and when i want to unlock...avoid any of the surprises an auto set up may throw at me.
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whats the true track? ya the Detroit is worse then the lockright i think to when it kicks in it's violent and bangs and clangs.
This is untrue. The Detroit Softlocker is a lot smoother then a Lockright and rarely kicks. You may hear it once in a while but it's only once and usually after some steering input is applied. It's very predictable as well. You can counter understeer by giving more throttle as the rear will want to oversteer.
The only downside to any auto-locker is when trying to accelerate on a sharp turn. You'll be 1wd and if you apply more throttle, you'll get wheel hop.
If I was going to do it again, I'd probably go with an ARB all around. Currently, I'm TrueTrac/Detroit. No major complaints. I've done several 500-700mile road trips without any problems.
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The True-Trak is a thorsen style Locker build by detroit,
very smooth and puts power to the traction wheel nicely.
Does not work like the classic detroit, no noise and great in ice and snow.
Mine blew because a bolt failed in it. Turns out your supposed to torque
the bolts each time you service the rear diff, or 12K miles. I did not see
that info anywhere in the manual, turned out there was supposed to be a
sticker that did not get included in the box... So I put a ARB in and haven't looked back.
Dave
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any complaints from an OX locker or that kind of set up?
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Ox lockers are fine, some of my buddies use them works well. Just need to find a place for the shifter, takes a bit more work to engage and disengage. ARB, Rubicon or E lockers are instant on and of with the flip of a switch
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Ox lockers are fine, some of my buddies use them works well. Just need to find a place for the shifter, takes a bit more work to engage and disengage. ARB, Rubicon or E lockers are instant on and of with the flip of a switch
The lever location is what drew me away from the Ox: a couple of friends in Panama run them as well, and one had issues with the cable not being set up correctly, so the locker would not engage, but this is due to poor instalation, and not the locker.
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Here's the Booster you'll want. I'm not sure who else sells them but you can cross reference it.
http://shop.oreillyauto.com/ProductDetail.aspx?MfrCode=A1C&MfrPartNumber=5473153
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Ox lockers are fine, some of my buddies use them works well. Just need to find a place for the shifter, takes a bit more work to engage and disengage. ARB, Rubicon or E lockers are instant on and of with the flip of a switch
you have to unscrew the shifter and then shift and screw back in correct? i wonder if it's like that on all of them. would be much better if you could push or pull up on the shifter and then move it up or down to engage/disengage. i wouldnt mind a locker that locks/unlocks at the flip of a switch..so long as the chances of electrical failure are minimal.
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you have to unscrew the shifter and then shift and screw back in correct? i wonder if it's like that on all of them. would be much better if you could push or pull up on the shifter and then move it up or down to engage/disengage. i wouldnt mind a locker that locks/unlocks at the flip of a switch..so long as the chances of electrical failure are minimal.
i think someone mentioned that OX came up with an electric version of theirs - not sure who said that but if he reads this maybe post a confirmation here. yeah, cables would be annoying to operate especially if you have to screw/unscrew the locking nut - they could've come up with some button that you press rather, something like the auto tranny shifter
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I was under the impression that you could crawl under your vehicle and activate an Ox locker even if the cable (and air and electronic now) was disabled in some fashion. That feature was an appealing fail-safe to me, at least on paper.
In reality, I don't have any experience with the OXs and the ARBs and Detroits have been around forever which is a good sign. And of course the No-Slips and Aussies get reviewed mostly OK for how they are typically used.
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whats the true track? ya the Detroit is worse then the lockright i think to when it kicks in it's violent and bangs and clangs.
my buddy has one in his ford supper duty.
and it is true about the 4x4 in snow and ice it's much safer with it when my g/f takes It in bad weather I tell just stick it in 4x4 unless it's dry pavement and take it easy.
when the detroit kicks in? Its always locked! Just thought this was funny. :whistle:
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I don't think many folks realise the detroit does the bang/jump noise when it Dis-engages
to allow your wheel to freewheel around the turn. Most think it engaging when it makes noise...
If Mine was a trail only rig I'd probably have done the Detroit but for daily driver the arb fits me better.
I also prefer to use 4x4 with open diffs in the ice and snow. I don't lock the arb's in the snow, except when I
want to slide around under power.... :)
YMMV
Dave
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it doesnt disengage around turns.
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when the detroit kicks in? Its always locked! Just thought this was funny. :whistle:
No, it is not; it engages and disengages, hence the name automatic locker (as oppossed to spool).
it doesnt disengage around turns.
It engages under power; if you coast, it should disengage. This is the reason for the clicking sounds...
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Never heard it called an automatic locker. I'll break out my manual on my detroit locker.
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The only things locked all the time are a spool or a lincoln locker (welded diff).
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i never had a detroit, so i'm no expert. Looking at the pics would lead me to believe that is always engaged and it will skip or click or step over when there is a difference in travel between left and right wheel. So i went and typed in "detroit locker operation" in google
came across an explanation on a site:
"The Detroit Locker is an automatic locking differential designed to lock both wheels of the axle together automatically with power input, when forward or reverse torque is applied, so that both wheels are providing 100% power to the ground. This action creates essentially a "spool" that solidly connects the axle shafts together. When torque is not being applied, the Detroit Locker is allowed to unlock, permitting a differentiation variance in wheel speed while negotiating turns. The later Soft-Locker design has a stronger case as well as a dampening mechanism to reduce banging and clunking characteristic to the earlier Detroit Locker."
so that is pretty much the opposite of what i gathered looking at the pics
now if someone can explain how it actually operates in plain english would be of great benefit as since i don't see clutch disks or spider gears i can't get my head around it - is one wheel disengaged at all times or once you hit the gas will engage and make it a spool until you lift a bit and it will skip - if that's the case then all of you are correct and actually explaining the different stages of the detroit operation. Again, if someone can explain how it works that would be greatly appreciated.
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well mine really never clicks unless im taking a turn under power or coasting. never clicks or bangs going straight. WHen it does click or bang, it nearly sends me in a fish tail.
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they are a little different than most automatic lockers I believe. since those lockers "lock" automatically, rather than unlock.
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now if someone can explain how it actually operates in plain english would be of great benefit as since i don't see clutch disks or spider gears i can't get my head around it - is one wheel disengaged at all times or once you hit the gas will engage and make it a spool until you lift a bit and it will skip - if that's the case then all of you are correct and actually explaining the different stages of the detroit operation. Again, if someone can explain how it works that would be greatly appreciated.
There is a fairly large spring that engages and disengages when torque is applied. With both tires off the ground (jackstands) you can turn one tire, and the other side will also spin. So I would say they are locked all the time, then unlock when there is no torque applied.
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The Detroit can unlock when off the throttle but it won't unless it's forced to and it takes a pretty sharp turn to get mine to unlock. More predictable than a lunchbox in adverse conditions IMHO.
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(http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b326/The_Red_Baron/Ford_Rear/detroit-locker-exploded-573.jpg)
The middle 3 larger gears with teeth are the ones that allow it to unlock. The springs on each side let the teeth slip, which others have said can cause a loud pop. Once you learn to keep torque applied while cornering it stays locked. If you are on the gas, then off it can cause it to pop. Just keep light pressure on the gas pedal while cornering and it should stay locked.
The Detroit can unlock when off the throttle but it won't unless it's forced to and it takes a pretty sharp turn to get mine to unlock. More predictable than a lunchbox in adverse conditions IMHO.
I had a Lockright first. The Detroit is almost invisible compaired. I really like them!
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after reading all your responses (and i truly appreciate all the input) i def have my mind made up-my jeep will be locked before the coming summer. Though i think ill go for a selectable locker rather than an auto one (though i may reread this thread by then and change my mind lol)
now (and i hope i dont open a can of worms with this question) will i need to swap out my front axle or beef it up if im locking it or is the stock axle ok to lock? I plan to have 32s on by the time i lock the front-dunno if the added tire weight changes opinions on this matter. Again, i appreciate any input on this matter.
-stan
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The front axle isn't the problem its the rear, if you have the POS D35 axle its a waste of money to change the oil in it.... IMHO :stick:
Dave
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Once you learn to keep torque applied while cornering it stays locked. If you are on the gas, then off it can cause it to pop. Just keep light pressure on the gas pedal while cornering and it should stay locked.
Just as well install a spool then.
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so the front axle should handle a locker well even with the added weight of 32s...
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so the front axle should handle a locker well even with the added weight of 32s...
Yes
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Just as well install a spool then.
I'd rather have a Detroit. Spools push to much.
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Yes
how about the rear d35s? 32s shouldnt hurt em right?
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I beat on mine with 33's with no issues.....my buddy broke his on the street with stock 225's
It's a crapshoot.
Carry a spare shaft and if it breaks, swap it.
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I did not break shafts on either of mine I destroyed the center section, The bearing carriers
spread out and the pinion jumped the ring gear and instant shrapnel. According to ARB this
was a common occurrence and they saw it all the time.... But I'm not bitter! :blbl:
Dave
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how about the rear d35s? 32s shouldnt hurt em right?
I have ARB's in mine, but I do use a 30 spline alloy shaft as well... Honestly speaking, it may be easier/cheaper to swap in a ford 8.8 for the rear, and not only will you have a stronger axle with the same bolt pattern, but you will also gain disc brakes for the rear in the process (if you pick the right axle; you are looking for a mid '90s explorer!). All you need to do to drop this axle in is to put new spring perches and change the DS... Same thing you would need to do for a CV shaft, basically...
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96-01 for disc brakes. Also need a rear yoke to flange adapter.
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ok so from what i gather: lock the front and add 32s..no problem. auto lockers/selectable have pros and cons ( im goin with selectable) rear d35s wont mind the 32s, but dont lock the rear cause it will prob break. i wanted to make sure the fronts could handle a locker and 32s (u guys have put me at ease on that topic) and i guess ill just leave the rear unlocked ( i dont mind) and be careful when on the trail.
thanks again guys.
stan
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ok so from what i gather: lock the front and add 32s..no problem. auto lockers/selectable have pros and cons ( im goin with selectable) rear d35s wont mind the 32s, but dont lock the rear cause it will prob break. i wanted to make sure the fronts could handle a locker and 32s (u guys have put me at ease on that topic) and i guess ill just leave the rear unlocked ( i dont mind) and be careful when on the trail.
thanks again guys.
stan
If you are careful with the skinny pedal and baby it, you could lock it as well, but I would not unless I ungraded the axle. Another option would be a limited slip for the rear (not as hard on the axle as a locker, but better traction than open diffs).
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ok so from what i gather: lock the front and add 32s..no problem. auto lockers/selectable have pros and cons ( im goin with selectable) rear d35s wont mind the 32s, but dont lock the rear cause it will prob break. i wanted to make sure the fronts could handle a locker and 32s (u guys have put me at ease on that topic) and i guess ill just leave the rear unlocked ( i dont mind) and be careful when on the trail.
thanks again guys.
stan
hmm, i understand the concern with D35 but in front you face u-joint issues - not saying you shouldn't lock it, but for traction purposes i would thing that since usually (or the most demanding scenario) you need traction when you go uphill the more loaded axle would be the rear, and if you lose traction on one of the rear wheels you are virtually left with only the front pulling - i would say lock'em both and use good sense when engaging the diffs (you can always leave both or one unlocked but if only one wheel in the front has traction you risk of blowing the u-joint there as the whole torque trying to move the vehicle will be on that wheel). I would think that if both axles have lockers then the stress would be distributed between the 2 (front and rear), if your rear is unlocked and one of the wheels in is off the ground or has no traction then that rear axle is not pulling at all. Just a thought.
oh, and imo you should always use a selectable in the front (actually that was your option, so just like you said).
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I'd rather have a Detroit. Spools push to much.
Push when? You said yourself it's best to drive a detroit in a manner that keeps it locked. What's the difference other than you don't get the quirks and bangs of a detroit?
The spool runs KISS smooth and predictable.
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Push when? You said yourself it's best to drive a detroit in a manner that keeps it locked. What's the difference other than you don't get the quirks and bangs of a detroit?
The spool runs KISS smooth and predictable.
When it's locked and your going around a corner. You will then able to induce a bit of over-steer. For those of us who have had our Detroit(s) for a long time, they too are very predictable. They may not be as simple as a spool but they are fairly KISS and have a history to back it up.
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Push when? You said yourself it's best to drive a detroit in a manner that keeps it locked. What's the difference other than you don't get the quirks and bangs of a detroit?
The spool runs KISS smooth and predictable.
There are times when you don't want it to be locked. Tight turns are a prime example. With the spool you don't have a choice thus it pushes more. All lockers have their +'s and -'s overtime you learn how to adjust to them. The spool is very KISS and predictable but it might not be the answer for everyones needs.
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what is KISS?
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what is KISS?
Keep It Simple Stupid
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I would think that if both axles have lockers then the stress would be distributed between the 2 (front and rear)
I'm guessing the same. Therefore chance of rear-end breakage would presumably be reduced, right? But that's one study that will never get National Science Foundation funding :lol:
I figure with two auto-lockers, then the four banger powering the entire front/rear locked drive-train at the same time isn't going to be the same power to the ground per wheel vs when powering just a locked rear end.
Even if momentum leaves you with just one tire on the ground in the rear and the front tires both in the air, you'll still not be putting the same torque to that one back tire with traction as you would with just the rear-end locked.
But I guess the rear-end 35 breakage is more of a no-traction, then sudden-traction thing. And even with the 4banger driving both axles due to two lockers, you might not be talking a significantly reduced torque burden on a locked rear end paired with a locked front-end (unweighted or not). Maybe 5-10-15% if you are lucky.
I'd still probably go with a rear-end swap just to be on the safe side if you are locking the rear.
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All I know is this a super35 with a locker is still prone to breakage.
One of my wheeling buddies is a wush and is very easy on the pedal with an auto even and still managed to break 2 super 35 axle shafts. One on an easy obstacle that I have ran more times than I can remember. So is it worth the 1000 bucks plus for a super35 kit? That is for you to decide. Me I would not and did not and I am pretty happy with my choice of axles and lockers, they have and are still taking a good weekly beating
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All I know is this a super35 with a locker is still prone to breakage.
One of my wheeling buddies is a wush and is very easy on the pedal with an auto even and still managed to break 2 super 35 axle shafts. One on an easy obstacle that I have ran more times than I can remember. So is it worth the 1000 bucks plus for a super35 kit? That is for you to decide. Me I would not and did not and I am pretty happy with my choice of axles and lockers, they have and are still taking a good weekly beating
what is your set up art? and if you dont mind giving me a ballpark $$ estimate...
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My little 4 banger has done John Bull, Dishpan Springs, and all the trails in Big Bear and even the Notch at Cleghorn.....without lockers. I had to basically power up.....give it the gas and go....hope to fly over the big rocks......some carnage....but I still made it.
Now with Aussie lockers on the front, a Rubicon rear end with air locker (electric switch on the dash) on the rear with 4.88 gearing.....I can now keep up with the 6 bangers....and crawl over and up pretty much anything. The only real restriction I have right now is height....and I am working on that as I type this e-mail.
Lockers are the best thing I could have done to my 92 YJ.....and I even got my 5th gear back....well somewhat. You can't go wrong by doing this mod.
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Just ran holcomb creek yesterday with my club, so much fun. They are running John Bull today as well.