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General Forums => The Mess Hall => Topic started by: Jeffy on October 30, 2009, 12:47:16 AM
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This has been bugging me for a few years now. It all starts with some pictures we see in a magazine or on the internet. There is always someone with some cool new thing on their Jeep. You start off buying larger tires, then lifts then winches, lockers, etc... As years pass your Jeep evolves into something larger then what it once was. The problem is when does it stop?
Now I have friends who had deeper pockets and were able to go from grocery getter to comp. rock crawler in a quick few years. Most of them have sold off their Jeeps and have gone back to something more basic as they figured out that they made such a specialized vehicle that it's no longer fun.
I'm sort of running into that wall, and I don't even consider my Jeep that big. The problem is I'm not doing what I thought I'd want to be doing with my Jeep. In fact, I'm doing the opposite which in these times of high gas prices, makes for a tough decision. To continue to build it up or reassess and change.
This is where I stand. Most of the mods that I've been doing don't have any bearing on that decision which is good. The problem is if I want to do anything more, I'm going to have to make a choice sooner or later. I've been thinking that instead of making a rockcrawler, I might want to go with something more rounded like an exploration vehicle. Something like you see with the Land Cruiser and Land Rover crowd. Going back to something a bit more basic but finding a balance between strength and weight. Something that will be able to drive 500-1000-2000 miles and be fairly comfortable even when those miles are all on dirt roads. Something not too exotic so it can easily be fixed while out in the field.
Thoughts? Crazy idea? Oh and yes, my next set of wheels will probably be some classic looking steeles.
Pictures like these are what sways me.
(http://www.film.queensu.ca/cj3b/Photos/Venezuela/ChurchYJ8.JPG)
(http://www.expeditionexchange.com/safetydevices/DSC07729.jpg)
(http://image.off-roadweb.com/f/9379867/0708or_04_z+jeep_wrangler_jt_concept_truck+left_front.jpg)
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Well Jeffy, take it back down to 33" tires, will work well with your gearing work on the springs or maybe a bit of a stretch to get a better ride, stick a pintle hook on the back and built a nice little offroad trailer and enjoy. I don't think you need much more than that, from where you are at right now, some kind of mountaineer rack in the back helps with stacking a load in the back of the Jeep the heavy stuff low and the light stuff up on top of the rack the rest and the foldout tent in the trailer. That and maybe a radio for communication, the license is not that hard to get.
O can see your point though somewhere along the line enough is enough, my little Jeep is not getting a whole lot more mods a suck down winch in the front this weekend and an anti rock in the rear at some pint and that is it. It wheels well has done some pretty tough trails. To get any crazier on the hammers will have to wait a year till my Big Jeep is built, going to make something out of a wrecked Jeep for the tougher stuff, got a line on about 2/3's of all the parts I need to built a TJ truggy or something along those lines
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i kinda agree.. the rock buggy's with 40+ tires are a little too extreme for me id rather have a more realistic jeep with 33s that is reliable and still go places... yougotta like basic steel rims
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Well, Jeffy, my opinion is a bit biased, as my Jeep was built to travel the 400 miles or so between Panama City, Panama (where the Jeep lives now) and San Jose, Costa Rica (where I now live) and back, yet still be able to run some trailes in boh countries. Hence my decision to keep the tire size at 33" (I was VERY tempted to go to 35's, but decided against it), and try to keep weight down to the minimum, while still having some creature comforts (like AC and the stereo).
In my case, the terrain is a bit different (it includes plenty of rive crossings, hence my need for the snorkel, for example), but overall, I am quite happy with how it came out. I would like a roof rack (not only to carry some of the lighter stuff, but also to place some additional lighting), but given the vegetation here, it may not be that great of an idea...
In my case, the pending mods are a hand throttle (which I already got, but have yet to install), a CB amplifier (they are not illigal down here, so I'm good to go; I also have a RM KL-50 IIRC that I bought some time ago, but have yet to isntall it), and a 2M radio as well (I plan to install the antenna over the driver's side tail light, similar to AW1234's antenna setup; this one I have yet to buy, and figure out exactly what I want and where to install it). Perhaps further down the line there is a possible axle swap, but that is not yet on the horizon...
Anyway, that's what I did, and everyone must sit down and plan their own Jeep based on what they want to do, and I applaud that you are taking the time to consider what exactly you want and build your rig based on that even though other may think it is not as "cool" as some of the other rigs...
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You might consider going back to 33s and adding skid plates and gas can carriers. This will recover and add a lot of reliability and expedition range. After that a rack will finish it up and you don't even need that unless you will be taking people in the back seat. I feel my Jeep (less built than yours) has done trails as extreme as I had ever envisioned, probably even a bit past that point. So a mild build can actually do a lot on those occasions when you decide to go do some rock crawling. The 2.5 is a good expedition engine. I've noticed that off road on several occasions that my Jeep will often use a bit less than half a tank and the 4.0 vehicles will be just above 1/4. On road the milage may not be all that different but off road it seems to be much better with the 2.5.
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I've never saw a JK as a pickup, I like it! As for the dilemma, I would rather have an explorer with 33's than a monster rock crawler and be limited to just that.
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Awesome topic!
The club I am in has had some influence on the way I went with my build. Not all by any means but some. I can clearly say I am done with the big stuff. I am real happy with my project. I don't feel it's a all out rockcrawler but it does pretty good in that environment. I like the exploration part of this hobby more than the rockcrawling.
I know how you feel when it comes to friends that have gone crazy with their builds in a short time. My club is having a huge convertion to D60's and 40 inch tires. These are not budget builds by any means. Well over 25K worth of upgrades. The sad thing is they are going to be doing the same type of trails BEORE the build. I don't get it at all! I think ego plays a huge part it this whole thing.
I guess you need to figure out what type of wheeling you want to do and what else you need to do to your Jeep to accomplish this. I like the idea of KISS. I think if you added some sorta T-case gearing with lots of choices ;) you would be set to do it ALL! Get some spare front shafts and headout to what ever type wheeling you want.
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Well Jeffy, take it back down to 33" tires, will work well with your gearing work on the springs or maybe a bit of a stretch to get a better ride, stick a pintle hook on the back and built a nice little offroad trailer and enjoy. I don't think you need much more than that, from where you are at right now, some kind of mountaineer rack in the back helps with stacking a load in the back of the Jeep the heavy stuff low and the light stuff up on top of the rack the rest and the foldout tent in the trailer. That and maybe a radio for communication, the license is not that hard to get.
I've thought about a stretch but what I'd really like to do is make a YJ-Unlimited with a frame stretch but that's a big undertaking. I'd love the extra 10" of room, while still keeping the stock overhang. That would give me plenty of room for gear as well.
Currently I do have a roof rack but it's not on. I think it will hold 2-300lbs, it's a Con-Ferr bolted to the hardtop. It's plenty of space for soft stuff for sure. I would really like to be able to use a Safari tent but I'd need to get a rack integrated to the body to support the additional weight.
As for communications, I already have that covered. Although I should get a HF radio to go along with my 2M.
Well, Jeffy, my opinion is a bit biased, as my Jeep was built to travel the 400 miles or so between Panama City, Panama (where the Jeep lives now) and San Jose, Costa Rica (where I now live) and back, yet still be able to run some trailes in boh countries. Hence my decision to keep the tire size at 33" (I was VERY tempted to go to 35's, but decided against it), and try to keep weight down to the minimum, while still having some creature comforts (like AC and the stereo).
The other idea is that with 33x10.5's I could carry two spares if I needed to.
In my case, the terrain is a bit different (it includes plenty of rive crossings, hence my need for the snorkel, for example), but overall, I am quite happy with how it came out. I would like a roof rack (not only to carry some of the lighter stuff, but also to place some additional lighting), but given the vegetation here, it may not be that great of an idea...
I might fo a snorkel but I'd want something a bit more rugged and home-grown.
In my case, the pending mods are a hand throttle (which I already got, but have yet to install), a CB amplifier (they are not illigal down here, so I'm good to go; I also have a RM KL-50 IIRC that I bought some time ago, but have yet to isntall it), and a 2M radio as well (I plan to install the antenna over the driver's side tail light, similar to AW1234's antenna setup; this one I have yet to buy, and figure out exactly what I want and where to install it). Perhaps further down the line there is a possible axle swap, but that is not yet on the horizon...
I don't need an amplifier with a 2M and possibly a HF later. The 2M will easily get over a mountain and down the other side or 100 miles line-of-sight. I have a 46" whip on the driver side rear and a 4.5' whip on the passenger side rear.
You might consider going back to 33s and adding skid plates and gas can carriers. This will recover and add a lot of reliability and expedition range.
I think the idea would be to eventually have an offset spare and 2 cans on the side. Or maybe just two spares. Haven't really thought about it but two spares are common on many TLC's I've seen. I have the option of putting some cans up top.Awesome topic!
The club I am in has had some influence on the way I went with my build. Not all by any means but some. I can clearly say I am done with the big stuff. I am real happy with my project. I don't feel it's a all out rockcrawler but it does pretty good in that environment. I like the exploration part of this hobby more than the rockcrawling...
I guess you need to figure out what type of wheeling you want to do and what else you need to do to your Jeep to accomplish this. I like the idea of KISS. I think if you added some sorta T-case gearing with lots of choices ;) you would be set to do it ALL! Get some spare front shafts and headout to what ever type wheeling you want.
I'm thinking mild trails like the Rubicon and some desert travel. I would probably toss out my idea for D60's because of the additional weight and the lack of clearance and go with D44's. Probably end up keeping my XJ D44 then converting it to disc's and 5 on 5.5". I'd still do the Atlas 4.0, and then a D44 for the front. I'd want hubs though so it would need to be a SJ or Bronco. Then gear to 5.13:1 or maybe still to 5.38:1. (that should top out around 80mph) That would leave the option of being able to throw on some 35's. Currently though, my Jeep is a daily driver all season vehicle. Roads do flood on occasion out here and we do get black ice. The occasional Sierra trip for snow and rocks, too.
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Jeffy, seems to me your axles are fine as long as you do not care to go to 5.13 or 5.38 gears, the dana30 hp is strong enough with good axle shafts, same goes for the dana44 rear some good shafts and it will take you where you want to go without worries.
For tires, go Krawlers or Pitbulls then you can easily get away with one spare or none those things are tough. For exploring, and versatility I still think a small light offroad trailer is the ticket for camping and gear. Frame stretch is pretty sweet I am going to do one of those for a friend he wants to, put a CJ6 body and engine on a stretched TJ frame. Will be a fun project
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Jeffy, seems to me your axles are fine as long as you do not care to go to 5.13 or 5.38 gears, the dana30 hp is strong enough with good axle shafts, same goes for the dana44 rear some good shafts and it will take you where you want to go without worries.
For tires, go Krawlers or Pitbulls then you can easily get away with one spare or none those things are tough. For exploring, and versatility I still think a small light offroad trailer is the ticket for camping and gear. Frame stretch is pretty sweet I am going to do one of those for a friend he wants to, put a CJ6 body and engine on a stretched TJ frame. Will be a fun project
Problem is I want lower gears and manual hubs. :lol:
I was thinking BFG KM2's 33x10.5R15's or else move to a 16" wheel and have more available. 255/85R16.
I'd love to do a frame stretch but I don't have the means. I'd like to cut it before the rear hump so all that will be required is a straight sleeve and insert. The body would be cut right before the raise in the floor so it wouldn't be too difficult to patch. It would be a fun project though. I have enough room for gear for two people which is all I need right now.
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There is no need to do D60's unless you want to run a tire larger than 37's. The D44's are plenty strong.
Why would you want to downsize to 33's?
Your current axles could be used but you would sink a ton of money into the D30. Unless you found a used one with lockouts.
You can find a D44 and start collecting parts as funds are avail.
Truly for the trails you want to run you have a very good set up. Gearing is the only thing you lack.
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That was pretty much my point, don't really see the need for locking hubs for the front though, when you want to keep it simple it adds a lot of breakable parts and unneeded complexity. To me going to go to 33's would save him the expense of regearing the axles. Also 33's are a lot easier on the drivetrain so will make for a higher degree of reliability. Overall Jeffy, your Jeep is pretty well setup for what you want, for general offroading and expeditioning you do not want a very low low range seems to me the stock transfercase or something geared like it is the ticket or one that does about a 2.7 to 1 and a 4 or 5 to 1 for the serious rock stuff, the latter gearings are a pain in the neck for anything other than rock crawling. Still think that a light offroad trailer with a foldout tent and some of the extra supplies like a small fridge and built in stove would be a hell of a nice add on
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I did the locking hubs for a couple reasons,
1. Mileage, it made about a mile per gallon better.
2. Less wear on the drive train, It stops the axles and third member and transfer case output from spinning.
3. It quiets the front end down.
4. Got rid of the vacuum disconnect while I was at it.
For my part of the country , the 2.7 low range is fine on 33" tires.
Dave
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i agree with you 100% jeffy. expedition vehicles are def where it's at. something along the lines of the rover's Lone Wolf Expedition vehicle or Camel Trophy. I personally would like to acheive a well balanced level with my jeep. Tires no bigger than 33", a lift with enough flex-but not too high as it's not needed (3"?) a front locker and winch would be nice. Under carriage armor and diff guards. Gear to a decent set up. A snorkel would be nice but again not needed-though many expedition vehicles carry em. Tranny and engine reworked for the longer hauls. id prob look to relieve the engine of as much load and stress as possible-get it breathing better etc. But in the end, ya want it bigger than stock, but not so big you can only drive at a max speed of 35mph and your wheeling only consists of driving through mud fields or cawling up the grand canyon.
oh, and ya may want to check out the roof top fold out tents on the market. u could possibly fab a nice base yourself..something that can fold out and over the side of the jeep, and then you could mount a tent on top.
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I say keep it expedition. It's always better to have something you can actually drive on the street, even if it is a mall crawler. I don't think I could personally ever build my Jeep to the point where it wasn't street legal.
Also, like others have been saying, you can actually get quite a bit of ability out of only a mild build. My Jeep is built very mildly and I plan on keeping it that way for a long time as I am quite happy with what my Jeep has to offer when offroad. Right now my goal is to increase power and restore the Jeep (there's a bunch of stuff that is aging and needs to be replaced.) All else will come only if it is necessary.
Bottom line is ... do what makes you happy, an attainable goal, and will keep you happy long-term. Rock crawlers are cool but they always seemed like a short-term toy to me. It's like people that have dune buggies out west -- what's the point of owning a machine like that if you can only drive it a couple times a year?
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I vote for explorer, or expedition vehicle. Every time I read about guys driving around the world I get infinitely jealous. With my family he have done several trips around South America on our bone stock 1998 Suburban 1500. I want to be able to do the same on my Jeep, obviously not carrying 6 people and their luggage around, only my girlfriend and me :naughty:. I want to buy a roof top tent next year, something like the Oasis II. My ultimate goal is to be able to fit 33" without lifting the jeep, something like the AEV Highline kit or a homemade chop. +1 expedition vehicle :pirate:
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I vote for explorer, or expedition vehicle. Every time I read about guys driving around the world I get infinitely jealous. With my family he have done several trips around South America on our bone stock 1998 Suburban 1500. I want to be able to do the same on my Jeep, obviously not carrying 6 people and their luggage around, only my girlfriend and me :naughty:. I want to buy a roof top tent next year, something like the Oasis II. My ultimate goal is to be able to fit 33" without lifting the jeep, something like the AEV Highline kit or a homemade chop. +1 expedition vehicle :pirate:
The problem I see with lifting without using a lift is that you'll need to do a lot of chopping. Also, the stock springs don't flex that well in SUA. You also have to consider raising everything else up like the transfer case. That usually means you'll need a body lift as the floor is a bit low to get the transfer case flat. I think for most of the world you can probably get away with 31's and a winch and shovel but all the pictures of people digging make me tired.
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Here's some picts of a FJ80's with 35x10.5R16's and 16x7 steel wheels. I like the stance but I don't really like the tires. They're Interco SSR Radials. The owner isn't really happy with the tires but likes the size.
(http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/yokomura/attachment.jpg)
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Jeffy, I would just throw a tent in the back and some goodies and wing it, is the quickest way to find out what needs to be improved and changed
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So google Ultralight backpacking, specifically:
www.rayjardine.com
www.the-ultralight-site.com
These get the idea across. Weight is the worst enemy for power, longevity etc.
If you reduce the cargo load you increase range and ability.
I'm not a fan of the rooftop tent units, Ive yet to see or use one that is any easier
to set up than my Eureka and they add weight where I don't want it.
Most of the rooftop units add almost 100lbs to the rig or more. And the
couple I've slept in had less room than my tent. I also don't like the way the
rig rocks around when I'm sleeping.
Dave
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all the pictures of people digging make me tired.
That's why I want to bring my girlfriend with me! :lol:
Jeffy, I would just throw a tent in the back and some goodies and wing it, is the quickest way to find out what needs to be improved and changed
+1 That's the best advice given on this thread
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So google Ultralight backpacking, specifically:
www.rayjardine.com
www.the-ultralight-site.com
These get the idea across. Weight is the worst enemy for power, longevity etc.
If you reduce the cargo load you increase range and ability.
I'm not a fan of the rooftop tent units, Ive yet to see or use one that is any easier
to set up than my Eureka and they add weight where I don't want it.
Most of the rooftop units add almost 100lbs to the rig or more. And the
couple I've slept in had less room than my tent. I also don't like the way the
rig rocks around when I'm sleeping.
Dave
Oh, I know about ultra light backpacking. I need to get some new gear but I've done the 50-75lbs worth of extra crap for 50 miles stuff before. That's why I drive. :lol: I also know a bit about motorcycle camping as well.
That's why I want to bring my girlfriend with me! :lol:
+1 That's the best advice given on this thread
Kind of hard to plan for the unexpected by going to places you normally go though. That's what I like about the expedition vehicles, they're not great at any one thing but are well built to get through almost anything.
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Sounds like we need to do the Mojave Road! :thumb:
I like the look of the expo rigs. I wouldn't drive around like I see some with all the gas cans and water cans all the time.
With the trails we have around here you can do most of them with 33's. That's what I like about the expedition vehicles, they're not great at any one thing but are well built to get through almost anything.
This pretty much sums it up with your plans and what you already have.
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Sounds like we need to do the Mojave Road! :thumb:
I like the look of the expo rigs. I wouldn't drive around like I see some with all the gas cans and water cans all the time.
With the trails we have around here you can do most of them with 33's. This pretty much sums it up with your plans and what you already have.
That reminds me of a Land Rover I saw on the Rubicon. It looked relatively stock with a huge rack on top. The guy had cans spanning across the back. I asked him about all the gas and he said they were empty and just for looks. He was on the slabs at the time...
I don't plan on driving around like I'm waiting for something to happen. I think what I really want is a narrower track and the flexibility of the vehicle. I don't see myself swapping engines any time soon and for most of the trails around here 33's will be fine. Even if I go narrow, I can probably get a second set of tires in 35x12/5R15's and have the best of both.
I bet the jeep will look a little funny with 33x10.5's on the stock 15x6's and my 7" flares. Might want to use a readily available steel wheel then go with a Stockton. The ones on the TLC are Taco spare tire wheels, 16x7 6 on 5.5 with 4.5" BS.
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My tires are 32.5x9" I'll try and post up some pics so you
can see the look. Mine are 16" wheels but it will give you an idea...
BTW BFG makes a MT in a 33x9.50x15 (I can't remember teh real metric size... )
Dave
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My tires are 32.5x9" I'll try and post up some pics so you
can see the look. Mine are 16" wheels but it will give you an idea...
BTW BFG makes a MT in a 33x9.50x15 (I can't remember teh real metric size... )
Dave
BFG's KO's are 33x9.5 while their KM's are are 33x10.5's. IIRC, 255.85R16's are 33x10.5R16's
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Jeffy you didn't just delete all that building trail stuff we were talking about did you? We could have just started another topic and copy and pasted it over there. Or maybe you did and I am just slow this morning. :smile:
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I'vebeen off for 2 days and all this happens....
I would look at weighing a budget to fit your requirements. You need to decide to pro/con on every aspect of your needs that you can identify. Make a table, use a priority system and go from there. Many do it in their head based on their local terrain, obstacles that conquered them rather them conquering the obstacle, money they have free to spend (or not!), peer pressure - even from these lists, and the list can go on and on.
There are ways of meeting both exploration as well as crawling aspects of a vehicle. Take a look at many of the vehicles over the web (like you haven't done that already). They are modified slightly to increase the capability but not overly done for one single purpose. Mainly to keep them street legal but also to meet certain criteria from the owner.
I take on maybe 5-10% of what I consider hardcore wheeling with my 2.5/auto TJ on 35s. I've got stock skids to protect the underside. And this hardcore is taking its toll on the belly skid. I tend not to go wheeling out on my own. I go somewhat prepared for the trail, time wheeling, weather, and who is riding with me (kids or no kids). I use my winch as necessary.
I do have a lot of heavy equipment I can throw into a build, but I'm just fine using bolt-on stuff for my TJ. I've got a totally rebuild Ford D60R that all it needs is a r&p, (Detroit, shafts/spares, lockouts, bearings, kingpins, brakes are all new), custom Alcan leafs with the orbital eye (for another project years ago which I never completed), Klunev/205 (Ford application), Sterling 10.25 with ARB waiting for r&p to match front, Duff radius arms with a heim as large as my palm, 4.3l/4L60 complete with everything even cruise, and I have a few more items specifically just for the TJ. The big items I've had sitting in the garage before I even bought my TJ 6 yrs ago. The cost to complete the install, getting tires and wheels, more lift, will amount to too much upfront money. The 35s' are very cost effective for my application as well as all the bolt-on stuff I've added over the years.
If anything, maintain your current setup. If you want to do something different, explore another vehicle and use that as a building platform. This will in turn be a very cost effective option in the long run (5-7 yrs). I've been through a lot of 4wd vehicles. Each has their pros/cons to their function. A lot of them use the bolt-on system very effectively. Some work does require specialty of material and welding.
Take a VW Bug platform and build a 2wd street buggy. Then add a Vanagan 4wd system to it. That can be your tube buggy.....A friend is building a buggy as a single seater from tubing, but using a 3cyl Metro/auto trans (no tcase) as a mid-engine layout with Sami axles and 31's. It should be about the wheelbase of a Sami and weigh about 1400#s it that. Just ideas for a specific rock runner.
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I think your tire size/brand really depends on where do you want to go
exploring. Size 16 rims are not that popular outside the U.S. A few years
ago we were on the south of Argentina and we went through our 2 spares.
Nobody had tires for 16" rims. We had to order them from Buenos Aires
and paid like 350 dollars for some crappy firestone tires, each one.
If it were my jeep I would go with 15" rims, a world known tire brand like
BFG and a tire size that's available anywhere like 31" or 33" at most .
I think you will also need to improve the stock electrical system of the
jeep with something like a dual battery setup, one for the engine and one for everything else, and a current converter from 12V to 110V, after all you will be relying on the jeep to use and charge all
electrical devices you might want to take with you, laptop, gps , camera,
navigation devices, etc. I guess air conditioning (with a good filter!) would be useful while traveling through dusty desert roads, and a good heater that will allow
you to sleep inside the jeep with -22 degrees celsius outside (personal experience).
You'll need a good electrical cooler/freezer, I think ARB has some pretty good ones.
That's all that comes to my mind right now..I hate mondays!
Hope this post is well written, I hate posting through the phone.
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Where do you go for expo style wheeling in the US? What comes to mind is the Mojave Rd, Dusy thou its a cross between expo and rockcrawling, same for the 'Con. I have heard there was a road that goes from San Diego to somewhere in AZ.
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I think your tire size/brand really depends on where do you want to go
exploring. Size 16 rims are not that popular outside the U.S. A few years
ago we were on the south of Argentina and we went through our 2 spares.
Nobody had tires for 16" rims. We had to order them from Buenos Aires
and paid like 350 dollars for some crappy firestone tires, each one.
If it were my jeep I would go with 15" rims, a world known tire brand like
BFG and a tire size that's available anywhere like 31" or 33" at most .
I think you will also need to improve the stock electrical system of the
jeep with something like a dual battery setup, one for the engine and one for everything else, and a current converter from 12V to 110V, after all you will be relying on the jeep to use and charge all
electrical devices you might want to take with you, laptop, gps , camera,
navigation devices, etc. I guess air conditioning (with a good filter!) would be useful while traveling through dusty desert roads, and a good heater that will allow
you to sleep inside the jeep with -22 degrees celsius outside (personal experience).
You'll need a good electrical cooler/freezer, I think ARB has some pretty good ones.
That's all that comes to my mind right now..I hate mondays!
Hope this post is well written, I hate posting through the phone.
Hmm, interesting, I would have thougth 16's would have had a stronger following around teh world as Land Rovers Defenders have been using 16's for a while now. That is a big consideration though. One of the reasons for going with 33's is that they are still more of them out there then 35's and up. At least when you exclude trailer queens. Not to mention, Expedition vehicles tend to be truly 50/50.
Twin batteries? That's in the plans. I don't need a new alternator since mine's already 170A. I already have a GPS mounted in the Jeep. I don't normally run a Laptop but I've been wanting to add a DC/AC Converter for years now. Just haven't had the time. I would like AC BUT the problem is room in the engine compartment. If I keep the engine as it is, I can mount the compressor in the OE spot. If I SC it, that would change things. AC would really be nice for desert runs though. Even driving through the central valley is a PITA.
Where do you go for expo style wheeling in the US? What comes to mind is the Mojave Rd, Dusy thou its a cross between expo and rockcrawling, same for the 'Con. I have heard there was a road that goes from San Diego to somewhere in AZ.
Expedition can be anywhere really. The Rubicon was rediscovered by an expedition group and not rockcrawlers. There is also the Trans American Trail as will as the Pony Express route. Even old route 66 when it sort of disappears. PNW and Alaska really come to mind. Although there are also places in Montana and Wyoming as well. I'd love to head down the Baja coast line. A bunch of my friends do it every year for the 1000. I'm not sure if I'd want to be working though. :lol:
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Where do you go for expo style wheeling in the US? What comes to mind is the Mojave Rd, Dusy thou its a cross between expo and rockcrawling, same for the 'Con. I have heard there was a road that goes from San Diego to somewhere in AZ.
4Wheel Drive and Sport Utility Magazine publishes great articles on expedition and exploration style 4 wheeling. There is a actually quite a bit to be done in the US. Colorado has a lot too. And you could also come to Mexico, there are some amazing multi day dirt track tours that can be done here.
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Hmm, interesting, I would have thougth 16's would have had a stronger following around teh world as Land Rovers Defenders have been using 16's for a while now. That is a big consideration though. One of the reasons for going with 33's is that they are still more of them out there then 35's and up. At least when you exclude trailer queens. Not to mention, Expedition vehicles tend to be truly 50/50.
In Panama and Costa Rica, you can still get both 33 and 35's in the capital cities (San Jose and Panama), but outside of that, you can only get 33's (and not in all the small towns). If you truly want to go with a tire available everywhere (including very small towns), you would need to drop to a 31" (and if it is Latin America you are talking about, a 265/70).
As for 15 or 16 size, the new Toyota HiLux Pickups all come with 16" wheels, so getting an R16 tire should not be all that difficult (as long as you dont mind going to metric, it should be available in most major towns). I know the HiLux comes in either 265/70 (also the stock setup for the Fortuner, which is also popular around here) or 205 from the factory depending on what you buy, and since that is the best selling pickup in both countries, I am sure you would find tires for it almost anywhere...
In fact, even the Landcruiser 70, which is still popular in Panama comes with 16 inch wheels, so at least down here, R16 would not be that much of a problem (also, Costa Rica sells almost as many Land Rovers as all the rest of Latin America combined, so with so many Defenders here, R16 again would be readily available).
Anyway, just input from my side of the world, should you ever head down this way to explore (and if you do, make sure to give me a heads up!).
Felipe
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In Panama and Costa Rica, you can still get both 33 and 35's in the capital cities (San Jose and Panama), but outside of that, you can only get 33's (and not in all the small towns). If you truly want to go with a tire available everywhere (including very small towns), you would need to drop to a 31" (and if it is Latin America you are talking about, a 265/70).
As for 15 or 16 size, the new Toyota HiLux Pickups all come with 16" wheels, so getting an R16 tire should not be all that difficult (as long as you dont mind going to metric, it should be available in most major towns). I know the HiLux comes in either 265/70 (also the stock setup for the Fortuner, which is also popular around here) or 205 from the factory depending on what you buy, and since that is the best selling pickup in both countries, I am sure you would find tires for it almost anywhere...
In fact, even the Landcruiser 70, which is still popular in Panama comes with 16 inch wheels, so at least down here, R16 would not be that much of a problem (also, Costa Rica sells almost as many Land Rovers as all the rest of Latin America combined, so with so many Defenders here, R16 again would be readily available).
Anyway, just input from my side of the world, should you ever head down this way to explore (and if you do, make sure to give me a heads up!).
Felipe
I wouldn't want to go less then 33's since I do want to be able to drive over rocks and not drag them with me. :lol: I figure that 16's would start to be more prevalent. Like I said Tacoma/Hi-Lux and Defenders went with 16's years ago. The P Metric equivalent is 255.85R16 which I believe is easier to find then 33x10.5R15's. At least more companies seem to make that size. With the 33x10.5's I'm pretty much limited to BFG, which isn't all bad.
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Jeffy you didn't just delete all that building trail stuff we were talking about did you? We could have just started another topic and copy and pasted it over there. Or maybe you did and I am just slow this morning. :smile:
Jeffy, where did it go? I'm not saying that deleting Jeep-related material your members write -- even if off topic -- deserves :fitz: This is a good site and all, but the apparent deletion rather than move is a little dissapointing :puzzled:
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Jeffy, where did it go? I'm not saying that deleting Jeep-related material your members write -- even if off topic -- deserves :fitz: This is a good site and all, but the apparent deletion rather than move is a little dissapointing :puzzled:
Dude, you're straying off topic again; start a new thread to discuss this issue...
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Glad to know there is still alot of land left open to do expo wheeling. With all the land closures that have happened and will happen it's a dying activity. I always think of the Camel trophy stuff or Africa,Land of Oz, or South America for expo stuff.
I still think with 33's the D30 has plenty of beef. Stepping up to a D44 is alot of money to gain lockouts. There is other benefits to the D44, but for this type of wheeling you shouldn't worry about the strenght of the D30.
I like the KM2 very nice looking tire. The 33-10.5 would be a good one! I am thinking of going back to 35's in the KM2 flavor. Unless something comes around in my size that I like.
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tsd made some good points and from personal experience:
- x2 on dual batteries (currently i have a manual disconnect, so far i only forgot to disconnect the main once and almost couldn't start the jeep in the morning, best is a battery isolator but i have yet to find one that is beefy enough to take the current for the winch)
- x2 on cooler - i have one with a peltier (TEC) module, cools pretty well but you need to make sure you don't leave the cover open too long. ARB ones are nice but really expensive
- offroad gps - fugawi explorer and another one i can't remember right now worked best for me with offroad maps - while most of them (maps) are only somewhat accurate they still give you a pretty good idea where you are at (these were both setup on a laptop)
- winch
- on board air
not sure if this is available but i would love to see a mini 12v generator that can be started by hand and with which you could recharge the battery (or batteries) if necessary (needs to be built that way so it won't smoke itself to death if the battery is almost completely discharged) - after my experience with the Jeep barely starting in the middle of nowhere i definitely think this would be a great item to have - the smaller the better, not sure if anthing like that even exists
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A buddy of mine has a small pull start Honda genny. It's small enough to fit in the Jeep for sure. Not sure it's specs. I would imagine it could charge a battery. Maybe on a trickle charge at least. A inverter would also be a great item. 1000 watt would come in handy for all kinds of things. Power tools and recharging small batteries come to mind.
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A buddy of mine has a small pull start Honda genny. It's small enough to fit in the Jeep for sure. Not sure it's specs. I would imagine it could charge a battery. Maybe on a trickle charge at least. A inverter would also be a great item. 1000 watt would come in handy for all kinds of things. Power tools and recharging small batteries come to mind.
something that would fit under the hood would be :thumb: - i'm thinking maybe powered by a little engine like the grass trimmers have, i don't care if it would take 5 hrs to recharge the batt but would be great in an emergency - or maybe even to be used to recharge the secondary battery rather than starting the jeep for that, but they are quite noisy so i guess i would rather listen to the 4banger idling
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I think you mean something like this (http://www.hondapowerequipment.com/products/modeldetail.aspx?page=P2GG&modelname=EU2000i&modelid=EU2000IAN):
(http://www.hondapowerequipment.com/Images/Models/EU2000i_250x250.jpg)
EU2000iA
•2000 watts, 120V
•Ideal for TV/DVD, satellite, fridge, coffee pot, and more
•Super quiet
•Easy to carry - less than 47 lbs!!
•Fuel efficient - up to 15 hrs on 1 gal of gas
•Inverter - stable power for computers and more
EU2000i Specifications
Engine Honda GX100
Displacement 98.5cc
AC Output 120V 2000W max. (16.7A) 1600W rated (13.3A)
Receptacles 20A 125V Duplex
DC Output 12V, 96W (8A)
Starting System Recoil
Fuel Tank Capacity 0.95
Run Time per Tankful 4hrs. (at) rated load, 15 hrs. (at) 1/4 load
Dimensions (L x W x H) 20.1" x 11.4" x 16.7"
Noise Level 59 dB (at) rated load 53dB (at) 1/4 load
Dry Weight 46.3 lbs.
Residential Warranty 3 Years
Commercial Warranty 3 Years
You could carry this one on the back and hook it up if necessary. For an expedition vehicle, I'd rather not have the generator under the hood, as (1) if you cross a river, it's bound to break (and they are not cheap!), and (2), they will suffer less due to heat from the engine (think how many times you've heard about vacuum lines cracking due to heat!).
EDIT
They also have this one (http://www.hondapowerequipment.com/products/modeldetail.aspx?page=modeldetail§ion=P2GG&modelname=EU1000I&modelid=EU1000IAN) on the site; smaller (a bit over a cubic foot) and cheaper, more fuel efficient, and runs longer with one fuel tank (you can use your Jerry can to refill it later).
Felipe
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I think you mean something like this (http://www.hondapowerequipment.com/products/modeldetail.aspx?page=P2GG&modelname=EU2000i&modelid=EU2000IAN):
You could carry this one on the back and hook it up if necessary. For an expedition vehicle, I'd rather not have the generator under the hood, as (1) if you cross a river, it's bound to break (and they are not cheap!), and (2), they will suffer less due to heat from the engine (think how many times you've heard about vacuum lines cracking due to heat!).
EDIT
They also have this one (http://www.hondapowerequipment.com/products/modeldetail.aspx?page=modeldetail§ion=P2GG&modelname=EU1000I&modelid=EU1000IAN) on the site; smaller (a bit over a cubic foot) and cheaper, more fuel efficient, and runs longer with one fuel tank (you can use your Jerry can to refill it later).
Felipe
Those generators would be sweet when your are parked and don't want to use the Jeep's batteries. I think it would kick ass if you could add a solar panel (useful, no just for the looks) so that you won't have to depend 100% on the jeep batteries or generator. Besides if you ever get stranded in the desert and your batteries run out there will be plenty of sun to charge everything, jeep batteries included.
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The problem with portable generator is what are you bringing that may need that much power? You're not FEMA and you're generally not spending that much time in one place so loading and unloading it could be a PITA after a while.
BTW: Already have a winch and OBA. Still need to either get a Premier Power Welder or a Ready Welder. Might go with the readywelder since it's portable and wire fed.
Keep in mind that a Exploration vehicle needs to be relatively light. We're not moving. :lol:
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I think you mean something like this (http://www.hondapowerequipment.com/products/modeldetail.aspx?page=P2GG&modelname=EU2000i&modelid=EU2000IAN):
You could carry this one on the back and hook it up if necessary. For an expedition vehicle, I'd rather not have the generator under the hood, as (1) if you cross a river, it's bound to break (and they are not cheap!), and (2), they will suffer less due to heat from the engine (think how many times you've heard about vacuum lines cracking due to heat!).
EDIT
They also have this one (http://www.hondapowerequipment.com/products/modeldetail.aspx?page=modeldetail§ion=P2GG&modelname=EU1000I&modelid=EU1000IAN) on the site; smaller (a bit over a cubic foot) and cheaper, more fuel efficient, and runs longer with one fuel tank (you can use your Jerry can to refill it later).
Felipe
the second one would be ideal, but it is $$$ - but yeah, would be great especially that it can probably be fitted between the rad and the motor on a 4 banger - sticking to my guns here as every time i take a trip the jeep is fully loaded touching the soft-top and some stuff on the over the tire rack as well so not much room for extras. Sucks that the 12v only gives out 100W whereas the 120V is rated at 1000W - but i guess you can have a charger connected to the 120V outlet.
BTW: Already have a winch and OBA. Still need to either get a Premier Power Welder or a Ready Welder. Might go with the readywelder since it's portable and wire fed.
sorry Jeffy, i thought we're listing what would be good to have on an expedition vehicle, i didn't mean you should get these (somehow i knew you've got those, can't remember from which thread might have been the Jeffy's Joop one).
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The problem with portable generator is what are you bringing that may need that much power? You're not FEMA and you're generally not spending that much time in one place so loading and unloading it could be a PITA after a while.
BTW: Already have a winch and OBA. Still need to either get a Premier Power Welder or a Ready Welder. Might go with the readywelder since it's portable and wire fed.
Keep in mind that a Exploration vehicle needs to be relatively light. We're not moving. :lol:
Regarding the generator, I am thinking camping on the beach; you have NO IDEA how hot it can get down here, and having a fan that can run all night is a blessing from above! Not to mention it is useful to have 110V to run whatever power tool or electronic you may need along the way. And since we are talking about a generator the size of a large lunchbox, I think it would be nice...
Another choice is to get one of these (http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=44768) from Harbor Freight. I leave mine on the dash when I leave the Jeep in Panama, and that way I am sure the electornics will not drain the battery regardless of how long I let it sit...
(http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/photos/44700-44799/44768.gif)
It's a nice bit of insurance, and only $20...
By the way, I am also thinking about adding a welder sometime... But not for now.
Felipe
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sorry Jeffy, i thought we're listing what would be good to have on an expedition vehicle, i didn't mean you should get these (somehow i knew you've got those, can't remember from which thread might have been the Jeffy's Joop one).
No problem, this can be a general thread. I just put up my Jeep as an example.
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Regarding the generator, I am thinking camping on the beach; you have NO IDEA how hot it can get down here, and having a fan that can run all night is a blessing from above! Not to mention it is useful to have 110V to run whatever power tool or electronic you may need along the way. And since we are talking about a generator the size of a large lunchbox, I think it would be nice...
Another choice is to get one of these (http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=44768) from Harbor Freight. I leave mine on the dash when I leave the Jeep in Panama, and that way I am sure the electornics will not drain the battery regardless of how long I let it sit...
(http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/photos/44700-44799/44768.gif)
It's a nice bit of insurance, and only $20...
By the way, I am also thinking about adding a welder sometime... But not for now.
Felipe
I had a solar panel similar, but not orange, like that that I used to keep my battery charged while in storage. They work well for a trickle charge, especially when you are in an area with lots of sun. You don't want to be in a hurry but then again you're probably SOL without it so you're not going to be in a hurry. :lol:
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I had a solar panel similar, but not orange, like that that I used to keep my battery charged while in storage. They work well for a trickle charge, especially when you are in an area with lots of sun. You don't want to be in a hurry but then again you're probably SOL without it so you're not going to be in a hurry. :lol:
You can always go with a bigger one, but consider this the lifeboat; hopefully, you will never need it, and if you do, you'll be uncofortable for a long time, but it will get you home.
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getting any closer to a decision Jeffy? seems as though you're leaning towards expedition set up. AS for the actual set up of the jeep...have u started to settle on any ideas?
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getting any closer to a decision Jeffy? seems as though you're leaning towards expedition set up. AS for the actual set up of the jeep...have u started to settle on any ideas?
I really really like the skinny look of the narrow track. I know for sure I want to do something like that. I hate the look of wide flares as it makes the Jeep look squat and heavy. The other problem is I love 35's. They look great and perform well. I'll have to see about 33x10.5R15's or 255.85.16's once I get my axles situated though. I need to figure out the bolt pattern I want then the wheels. Although I think I have an idea on that already. Going expedition will save me money on axles for sure though since I don't need D60's. (was thinking J8 axles for a while D44/D60, too.)
So nothing is set in stone but I'm heavily leaning towards expedition.
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Jeffy, get yourself those Volvo portals you've always wanted and travel the world.
If you really need the lockout setup on the hubs, Reider Racing has a knuckle that you can use to adapt GM knuckle-out hardware to the late model Jeep front axle. You'll need the GM axle to get the hardware needed to complete the assembly with the Reider knuckle.
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Jeffy, get yourself those Volvo portals you've always wanted and travel the world.
If you really need the lockout setup on the hubs, Reider Racing has a knuckle that you can use to adapt GM knuckle-out hardware to the late model Jeep front axle. You'll need the GM axle to get the hardware needed to complete the assembly with the Reider knuckle.
Problem with 303 axles is their rarity. Dana 44's can be found through out NA. Not to mention, I already have one so I only need 1 axle. The other problem with the 303's is the gearing, for 33's they are way too low. 5.99's are the high speed and then there are 7:1's as the more common gears. I'd also have to return my Jeep to SUA up front and redo a bunch of other suspension related things. For a fraction of that I can build a SJ D44 and regrear my D44. Then I'd have to either go through the trouble of mixing parts to get 5 lug or have the rear drilled for 6. Or else find an Early Ford Bronco D44.
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(http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/photos/44700-44799/44768.gif)
Felipe
would that even work to charge with the keys off? i know on my jeep the cigarette lighter turns on and off with the key (its how i get my power for my electric fan switches). but i guess it would be easy enough to wire up direct cigarette lighter
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would that even work to charge with the keys off? i know on my jeep the cigarette lighter turns on and off with the key (its how i get my power for my electric fan switches). but i guess it would be easy enough to wire up direct cigarette lighter
I have 3 outlets in mine: 2 are wired to the ignition, one is not, so that I can charge from there...
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The other problem is I love 35's.
Just a thought and i may be far off in my reasoning: as far as 35s are concerned for a 2.5l "expedition" jeep, would the 35s (with their weight and size) increase stress to the engine over long distances-perhaps lose a few points in the efficiency department? I typically think of 35s as a tire you'd want for crawling-theres a lot of meat on that tire-but downsizing to a 32 or 33 wouldnt prevent you from really tackling obstacles you may encounter (esp since you've mentioned ya dont really want to push towards a rock crawling rig) So maybe a smaller (32-33") tire may be better in this case-less weight for the jeep to haul around, less strain on axles, engine, tranny, and enough girth to still crawl over and negotiate obstacles. just an opinion really, feel free to refute it.
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Just a thought and i may be far off in my reasoning: as far as 35s are concerned for a 2.5l "expedition" jeep, would the 35s (with their weight and size) increase stress to the engine over long distances-perhaps lose a few points in the efficiency department? I typically think of 35s as a tire you'd want for crawling-theres a lot of meat on that tire-but downsizing to a 32 or 33 wouldnt prevent you from really tackling obstacles you may encounter (esp since you've mentioned ya dont really want to push towards a rock crawling rig) So maybe a smaller (32-33") tire may be better in this case-less weight for the jeep to haul around, less strain on axles, engine, tranny, and enough girth to still crawl over and negotiate obstacles. just an opinion really, feel free to refute it.
Not really a concern when you consider upgrading axles as well. If you're going to stick with stock axles then probably 31's would be better. Since I'm already running a D44, it's not a big deal to run 35's. The only consideration is gearing and for 35's you really want to be 5.38:1 or lower. With 33's you can get by with 4.88's but you really want 5.13's (we're speaking of a 5-speed and not an auto).
The YJ Long that is pictured in the beginning has 31x10.5R15's on the stock 15x6" wheels and I think it looks pretty good. I don't really want to go lower then 33's for a few reasons. One being, I have a SOA up front and SUA rear netting me somewhere in the 4-5" range and a 1.25" body lift. I like the suspension where it is and 33's will work fine with the extra room.
I'm not moving away from rockcrawling but rather not making a dedicated rock crawler. 35's and up are great for rockcrawling but aren't as great for other stuff. Also my current gearing is 4.56:1 which is pretty good for 31's to 33's. (I installed them before there were 4.88's available). I want lower gearing for better street performance though. So I think either 5.13's or 5.38's would be good. Currently the theoretical top speed is 122MPH with 5000RPM's being max. I want to bring that down to around 90MPH. I would need 5.38:1's for that. 5th gear at 3300RPM's would put me around 65MPH which is about right where I'd want it to be. 5.38's would also give me the ability to go back to 35's with a wheel and tire swap so if I wanted a more rock oriented rig, I could go back easily.
Play around with this chart and you're own setup; http://jeeptech.com/javaAps/gta.html It will give you a better idea of what gearing you really need and what it will feel like between gears.
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So in just a sort of analytical mode....
If you look at the weight difference of 35's and the right wheels
vs the 33's and the correct wheels your talking almost 100 lbs on the rig
in some tire sizes.... For like 1" working clearance?
Then add the increased wind resistance of the lugs on the bigger tire,
plus the inherent inertia of a bigger diameter tire it matters, even if you re-gear.
Anecdotely;
I went from 12mpg to 19mpg by switching from the 285x70/16 to 238x85/16.
The YJ drives 100% better on the road and I can't tell so far off road that
I lost anything, feels like it climbs better and I'm scared to test the real
mud traction of the tire.(Toyo Open Country MT's) At the doors in goo
i didn't even have it in 4x4 yet.
Dave
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Not really a concern when you consider upgrading axles as well. If you're going to stick with stock axles then probably 31's would be better. Since I'm already running a D44, it's not a big deal to run 35's. The only consideration is gearing and for 35's you really want to be 5.38:1 or lower. With 33's you can get by with 4.88's but you really want 5.13's (we're speaking of a 5-speed and not an auto).
The YJ Long that is pictured in the beginning has 31x10.5R15's on the stock 15x6" wheels and I think it looks pretty good. I don't really want to go lower then 33's for a few reasons. One being, I have a SOA up front and SUA rear netting me somewhere in the 4-5" range and a 1.25" body lift. I like the suspension where it is and 33's will work fine with the extra room.
I'm not moving away from rockcrawling but rather not making a dedicated rock crawler. 35's and up are great for rockcrawling but aren't as great for other stuff. Also my current gearing is 4.56:1 which is pretty good for 31's to 33's. (I installed them before there were 4.88's available). I want lower gearing for better street performance though. So I think either 5.13's or 5.38's would be good. Currently the theoretical top speed is 122MPH with 5000RPM's being max. I want to bring that down to around 90MPH. I would need 5.38:1's for that. 5th gear at 3300RPM's would put me around 65MPH which is about right where I'd want it to be. 5.38's would also give me the ability to go back to 35's with a wheel and tire swap so if I wanted a more rock oriented rig, I could go back easily.
Play around with this chart and you're own setup; http://jeeptech.com/javaAps/gta.html It will give you a better idea of what gearing you really need and what it will feel like between gears.
the 5.99 ratio on those portals/volvos doesn't sound that bad - not sure how strong they are but if they are strong enough my preference would be those paired with some 40'' tires which would be close to stock final ratio - that will keep you from getting stuck during the expedition :weee:
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The downside of Portal axles is Drag, those boxes soak up a fair amount
of power and the ones I've driven were kind of loud.... Kind of a whinny
rumble that just penetrated the rig...
Dave
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So in just a sort of analytical mode....
If you look at the weight difference of 35's and the right wheels
vs the 33's and the correct wheels your talking almost 100 lbs on the rig
in some tire sizes.... For like 1" working clearance?
Then add the increased wind resistance of the lugs on the bigger tire,
plus the inherent inertia of a bigger diameter tire it matters, even if you re-gear.
Anecdotely;
I went from 12mpg to 19mpg by switching from the 285x70/16 to 238x85/16.
The YJ drives 100% better on the road and I can't tell so far off road that
I lost anything, feels like it climbs better and I'm scared to test the real
mud traction of the tire.(Toyo Open Country MT's) At the doors in goo
i didn't even have it in 4x4 yet.
Dave
Hear, Hear!! This has been my thinking on tire size for years. However, it never got much "traction" with the 40" MT dudes on the Dump truck axles. Maybe the recession is changing people's minds?
33-35s MTs are about the most I could ever see doing; and doing that right would, imho, run 5k-8k by the time you got through with axles, lockers, lift, sye, regear, tires/wheels. Personally I think the 31 MTs on 4:10s I've got are driving ok right now.
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BTW: Already have a winch and OBA. Still need to either get a Premier Power Welder or a Ready Welder. Might go with the readywelder since it's portable and wire fed.
I REALLY love my RW. For years it was my only welder. They are awesome and priced pretty good for what you get.
What is your definition of a rockcrawler? Stingers, comp cut, D60's 37+ tires?
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So in just a sort of analytical mode....
If you look at the weight difference of 35's and the right wheels
vs the 33's and the correct wheels your talking almost 100 lbs on the rig
in some tire sizes.... For like 1" working clearance?
Then add the increased wind resistance of the lugs on the bigger tire,
plus the inherent inertia of a bigger diameter tire it matters, even if you re-gear.
Anecdotely;
I went from 12mpg to 19mpg by switching from the 285x70/16 to 238x85/16.
The YJ drives 100% better on the road and I can't tell so far off road that
I lost anything, feels like it climbs better and I'm scared to test the real
mud traction of the tire.(Toyo Open Country MT's) At the doors in goo
i didn't even have it in 4x4 yet.
Dave
From what I understand, it's a 10:1 radio so that's around 400lbs of sprung weight which is pretty huge but like I said 31's are going to be too small. For the even the main trail on the Rubicon, you'll be dragging your junk across it. 33's and up have a much easier time. So, it's 255/85R16's or 33x10.5R15's. I do have my OE 15x6's but they may not want to mount 10.5's on them since BFG recommends 7's. Also the BS is a little deep at 5.5". It will probably be a waiting game between needing new tires and gathering enough money to put a D44 under the front and reaxle and gear the rear. I'd hate to have to buy wheels twice.
On a side note, I noticed the MT/R has been discontinued which is really sad. I hate the look of the Kevlar.
I REALLY love my RW. For years it was my only welder. They are awesome and priced pretty good for what you get.
What is your definition of a rockcrawler? Stingers, comp cut, D60's 37+ tires?
Nothing so definable. Generally speaking 33x12.5R15's and up, Wide track with a decent amount of suspension travel. Today the 33 and 35's are almost passe.
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Yea, if your rims get too narrow it will mess up the tire life big time. I made that mistake on my last rig.
I try and stay the same width as the tread now, so I get just a little protection for the rim but don't suck
the tread into a curve....
The question I just thought of,,, and I don't have an answer yet, is it better to go from 33 to 35 inch
tires or add 1.5 inch of shackle? Both will add about 1 inch under the skid plate... I personally am running
1.5's, little bump in height without getting sloppy. I originally did the 1.5's to make up for spring sag,
but then replaced the springs... and never replaced the shackles like I planned... :)
Dave
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Yea, if your rims get too narrow it will mess up the tire life big time. I made that mistake on my last rig.
I try and stay the same width as the tread now, so I get just a little protection for the rim but don't suck
the tread into a curve....
The question I just thought of,,, and I don't have an answer yet, is it better to go from 33 to 35 inch
tires or add 1.5 inch of shackle? Both will add about 1 inch under the skid plate... I personally am running
1.5's, little bump in height without getting sloppy. I originally did the 1.5's to make up for spring sag,
but then replaced the springs... and never replaced the shackles like I planned... :)
Dave
Well, typically when you run 12.5's on a 8" wheel, you will eventually wear the inside tread faster then the outside. it always happens, even if you think you'll run the lower pressure. Later you think, oh I'll bump up the pressure for a little while to get better mileage and then it sits like that for years. :lol: Mine is about a 1/8" difference. For a 10.5" I'd probably want to run a 8" wheel which would be about the same as running a 10" on a 12.5" tire. 10.5's fit on 6" wheels but they are pinched a bit. It's actually fairly common to see someone fitting 31x10.5R15's on a stock 15x6 though. I think the Taco wheels on the FJ80 are 16x7's. I'd like to run 15x8's but with a lot less BS. Maybe 4.75 which is what AEV runs on their wheels. My spare AR767 is 15x8 with 4"BS I think. I don't really want to run 767's all around though.
As for your question. I'd say 35's will make a bigger difference. I wouldn't go with 1.5" shackles since that's a lot of shackle. IIRC that's 3" over stock. I ran 1.25" and it screwed up my pinion angles a bit in the front. I didn't notice any drift issues with the reduced caster though. Fixed all of that when I went SOA up front. I went back to stock shackles. Now the rears I think are .5" lift with the dog legs.
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Whoops, I just rechecked mine they are 3/4" lift... Got to thinking.... :) Dangerous...
Dave
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Did a bit more searching around. Found a set of Rubicon D44's as well as the NVG241OR for $2600. Not a bad deal. To use the NVG241OR, you would have to swap out the AX-5 for a AX-15 or NV3550 but otherwise, you'd basically be turning your Jeep into a Rubicon. They didn't have the pumps for the lockers though. Also, if you kept the lockers you would be limited to 5.13:1 which isn't too bad. If I was going to go that route, I'd keep my D44 (stronger housing) and gut the front D44 then install standard gears and ARB's. I'd be left with the one piece hubs but it could be worse. Too bad, I don't have the money, since I just bougth something else not Jeep related.
Oh and for those who also want dished steel wheel, I found something that might work with the 5 on 4.5 bolt pattern. Crown Victoria/Grand Marquis wheels. The steel wheel used for the spares as well as Police cars are either 15x7 or 16x7 depending on the year. I wouldn't use the really late wheels as they have huge amounts of positive offset. You could also check out Mopar 70's police wheels as they are 5 on 4.5" as well. You'll have to confirm the BS though. They look between 3-4". Seem to be going for $50 or less. The CV wheels are probably cheaper at a pick-n-pull.
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If your plans are to stay SOA in the front your gonna need flat top knuckles to clear the springs. I'd look for a Waggy and swap it over to 5 on 5.5. The Ford D44's have a 6 hole spindle. The only people I found that make 6 hole flat tops is Dedenbear (IIRC they are $600 for the pair). The Waggy uses GM style 5 hole spindle and flat tops can be found for much more reasonable prices.
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If your plans are to stay SOA in the front your gonna need flat top knuckles to clear the springs. I'd look for a Waggy and swap it over to 5 on 5.5. The Ford D44's have a 6 hole spindle. The only people I found that make 6 hole flat tops is Dedenbear (IIRC they are $600 for the pair). The Waggy uses GM style 5 hole spindle and flat tops can be found for much more reasonable prices.
I would definitely go for high-steer as that will eliminate any bumpsteer that I already have. Good to know about the Ford D44. Not to mention the SJ D44 will probably be under $300 as whole vehicles are going for around $1000 (non-op).
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Jeffy, if you go for explorer, do you plan to put a rooftop tent on the Jeep? If so, what would be your choice?
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I would definitely go for high-steer as that will eliminate any bumpsteer that I already have. Good to know about the Ford D44. Not to mention the SJ D44 will probably be under $300 as whole vehicles are going for around $1000 (non-op).
Now that I think about it a Ford D44 would work, but you need GM stuff from the knuckle out. But unless you find one from a EB you would need to shorten it to Waggy inner length. It would be nice to have a HP but it's alot more work to get it to fit width wise.
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Jeffy, if you go for explorer, do you plan to put a rooftop tent on the Jeep? If so, what would be your choice?
Well, here's what I'm thinking. I doubt I'll be camping anywhere where I'll have to worry about floods or animals. A roof top tent is big. I think the Hannibal is the big one you see on many TLC's and Rovers. They have the awning and changing area. IIRC, they are around 140lbs which is a fair amount. The problem with mounting one on a Wrangler is the fiberglass top. It's not designed for a lot of weight. I think it's safe for around 300 distributed but I wouldn't go much more without doing a body mounted rack like a Gavin or similar. The other problem with a Jeep is that they are small, so that tent better be small. The Hannibal is huge and that's all you're going to be putting up there. There used to be a company called Oasis which made a smaller tent but I think they went out of business. I think teh best option would be to just sleep in a normal tent. They are smaller and weight a lot less. You can set up a changing room separately, if you need to. Or better yet, add an awning and tent under it. If the awning is large enough it turns into a lean to.
This is why Art is recommending a trailer. If you build a small trailer you can put a tent on that.
This is an awesome setup: http://www.jk-forum.com/showthread.php?t=34296
I think something smaller like this makes a bit more sense: http://www.expeditionswest.com/equipment/adventure_equip/adventure_trailers/chaser.html or http://www.outlandertrailers.com/
A more minimalist approach: http://www.tentrax.com/
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Now that I think about it a Ford D44 would work, but you need GM stuff from the knuckle out. But unless you find one from a EB you would need to shorten it to Waggy inner length. It would be nice to have a HP but it's alot more work to get it to fit width wise.
I wouldn't be too worried about HP since having two standards would allow for having one set of spare gears to cover both axles. Not something really crucial but does simplify things.
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The idea of the roof-top tent is appealing, the pictures of it are appealing, the adventure concept is appealing. The reality: most Jeep owners in North America will probably need a roof-top tent about as much as they "need" 40 inch MTs :lol: :wall: Come on I need another -1 :lol:
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This is an awesome setup: http://www.jk-forum.com/showthread.php?t=34296
That thing is AMAZING! I guess the trailer cost's about the same as the jeep :lol:
Ever since I wanted a jeep, I wanted a roof rack and an Oasis II Tent. I was ready to bite the bullet, since they are not cheap, and they went out of business. Then I found out that oasis tents were a re badge of a french tent. Sadly, I had spent the money on something else. You can still get one here:
http://oasis.trekking.fr/oasis-62.php
I don't speak french, don't know which one is the "Add to cart" button is.
I still think that the oasis tent is the best solution, all the others are too heavy and when closed they are too tall (like the ARB tents or the hannibal). If you have a lift+roof rack+tent, your jeep wouldn't fit anywhere. I like the way the Oasis sits inside the roof rack when closed, and you can't beat the 40 lbs.
(http://www.4x4wire.com/news/oasisII04/tjpr2.jpg)
:'(
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I have wanted to build a trailer for a long time. I have drawn out plans using this http://www.milspecoffroad.com/ as a guide as well as other trailers. But I put it on hold since I don't think I would use it but once or twice.
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I don't speak french, don't know which one is the "Add to cart" button is.
there is no add to cart button. they state on the web page that online purchase is not possible. To order one requires the buyer to contact them directly. I just scanned through it and i dont remember if i saw a contact # or not.
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http://oasis.trekking.fr/oasis-62.php
I don't speak french, don't know which one is the "Add to cart" button is.
I still think that the oasis tent is the best solution, all the others are too heavy and when closed they are too tall (like the ARB tents or the hannibal). If you have a lift+roof rack+tent, your jeep wouldn't fit anywhere. I like the way the Oasis sits inside the roof rack when closed, and you can't beat the 40 lbs.
(http://www.4x4wire.com/news/oasisII04/tjpr2.jpg)
:'(
That's the Oasis II which I'm not sure if they exist anymore. Their website doesn't exist.
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My Big agness tent weighs in at 1.5 lbs. That beats 40. :blbl:
The only animals I'm worried about can get you in a roof top tent..... :stick:
I'm usually armed well enough to deal with them just fine....
Dave
"Never test bear mace, they are attracted to the smell when its just a little of it."
- Bubba, game warden in the problem grizzly drop zone in Wyoming....
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My Big agness tent weighs in at 1.5 lbs. That beats 40. :blbl:
The only animals I'm worried about can get you in a roof top tent..... :stick:
I'm usually armed well enough to deal with them just fine....
Dave
"Never test bear mace, they are attracted to the smell when its just a little of it."
- Bubba, game warden in the problem grizzly drop zone in Wyoming....
I wish I had the room to sleep INSIDE the Jeep. :lol:
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That thing is AMAZING! I guess the trailer cost's about the same as the jeep :lol:
Ever since I wanted a jeep, I wanted a roof rack and an Oasis II Tent. I was ready to bite the bullet, since they are not cheap, and they went out of business. Then I found out that oasis tents were a re badge of a french tent. Sadly, I had spent the money on something else. You can still get one here:
http://oasis.trekking.fr/oasis-62.php
I don't speak french, don't know which one is the "Add to cart" button is.
I still think that the oasis tent is the best solution, all the others are too heavy and when closed they are too tall (like the ARB tents or the hannibal). If you have a lift+roof rack+tent, your jeep wouldn't fit anywhere. I like the way the Oasis sits inside the roof rack when closed, and you can't beat the 40 lbs.
(http://www.4x4wire.com/news/oasisII04/tjpr2.jpg)
:'(
Ok, well maybe buy the tent but don't buy 40s, too. Because I gotta admit, the tent looks pretty cool.
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Pirate4x4 now has an Expedition forum. I'm on several other similar expedition lists - My Swag (http://myswag.org/forum/index.php) (Australian based) and Expedition Portal (http://expeditionportal.com/forum/index.php). The Portal has lots of information pertaining to expeditions throughout the world, companies with specialty products, reviews, trailers, gear, tires, etc. There are lots of companies in the US that mfr for expedition style offroading, as well as on-road travel to camping destinations, etc. MySwag is something that I came upon. To view pics in MySwag, you'll have to register. The camping trailers of Australia are amazing in design and layout.
There is a tent that is easily setup and take down, compacts into a tight holding bag, and is currently imported into the US. OzTent (http://us.oztent.com/default.asp) is the name. There are several sizes as well.
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That Oasis II looks like you could fall out during the night!
I've slept in the Jeep a few times, it's not all that bad with the seat reclined as much as possible.
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Pirate4x4 now has an Expedition forum. I'm on several other similar expedition lists - My Swag (http://myswag.org/forum/index.php) (Australian based) and Expedition Portal (http://expeditionportal.com/forum/index.php). The Portal has lots of information pertaining to expeditions throughout the world, companies with specialty products, reviews, trailers, gear, tires, etc. There are lots of companies in the US that mfr for expedition style offroading, as well as on-road travel to camping destinations, etc. MySwag is something that I came upon. To view pics in MySwag, you'll have to register. The camping trailers of Australia are amazing in design and layout.
There is a tent that is easily setup and take down, compacts into a tight holding bag, and is currently imported into the US. OzTent (http://us.oztent.com/default.asp) is the name. There are several sizes as well.
Pirates Expexition forum is so slow as the forum in generally is all about crawling and who's the biggest. The Expedition Portal is more TLC and LR's. The Jeep area is still more of the same Jeep stuff. ie, crawlers.
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That Oasis II looks like you could fall out during the night!
I've slept in the Jeep a few times, it's not all that bad with the seat reclined as much as possible.
You don't have enough gear then. :lol: Tool box and spare parts, I'd rather leave in the Jeep. Also my seats don't recline (Mastercraft Rubicon). For the most part out west, there isn't anything to really worry about when sleeping on the ground other then rocks.
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That Oasis II looks like you could fall out during the night!
I've slept in the Jeep a few times, it's not all that bad with the seat reclined as much as possible.
how do you recline the seats in your Jeep - the stock ones i had in my '95 YJ didn't and the aftermarket ones i put in are not clearing the roll-cage - do you have some a/m ones or the stock ones are reclining? and if the latter how come you got special treatment :)
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Maybe it is the Rio Grande package :puzzled:
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Mine would recline if it were not for the sound wedges... They would probably go to 45* or so if not for that. Still, not sure how confortable sleeping there would be, though...
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This is a funny thread, I want to see trail pics of the first expedition ride.
Some folks have done a expedition trip around the North rim of the Grand Canyon looks like a very nice trip, Same goes for some of the runs people do through the Colorado mountains. Truth be told Jeffy, your Jeep is ready and more than capable as is.
Just load er up strap a gas can to the back if need be and explore the wide wide yonder. A lot of this is about doing not about thinking about it, life is to darn short to waste it. I have done a lot of exploring on foot and hitchiking, wandered into the wilderness with just a backpack and had a ball. Having a set of wheels to take you there is even better. Just go and have fun see if you enjoy it as much as you think you will before you spend a lot of coin
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This is a funny thread, I want to see trail pics of the first expedition ride.
Some folks have done a expedition trip around the North rim of the Grand Canyon looks like a very nice trip, Same goes for some of the runs people do through the Colorado mountains. Truth be told Jeffy, your Jeep is ready and more than capable as is.
Just load er up strap a gas can to the back if need be and explore the wide wide yonder. A lot of this is about doing not about thinking about it, life is to darn short to waste it. I have done a lot of exploring on foot and hitchiking, wandered into the wilderness with just a backpack and had a ball. Having a set of wheels to take you there is even better. Just go and have fun see if you enjoy it as much as you think you will before you spend a lot of coin
ditto my weekend exploring old iron mines was alot more fun that going to any ohv park with ridiculous obsticuls for those 40' dumptruck rigs in my book. expedition is a thing id like to get into more. those camper trailers look lice although the first one was alittle much...
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This is a funny thread, I want to see trail pics of the first expedition ride.
Some folks have done a expedition trip around the North rim of the Grand Canyon looks like a very nice trip, Same goes for some of the runs people do through the Colorado mountains. Truth be told Jeffy, your Jeep is ready and more than capable as is.
Just load er up strap a gas can to the back if need be and explore the wide wide yonder. A lot of this is about doing not about thinking about it, life is to darn short to waste it. I have done a lot of exploring on foot and hitchiking, wandered into the wilderness with just a backpack and had a ball. Having a set of wheels to take you there is even better. Just go and have fun see if you enjoy it as much as you think you will before you spend a lot of coin
I know it's capable but I'm thinking about dialing it back a bit. At least tire wise. Problem with doing and not planning is that you can get caught with your pants down so to speak. It could be something pretty simple that was overlooked. Why go blind when others have some experience? In any case, it's an interesting topic that everyone can get into.
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Maybe it is the Rio Grande package :puzzled:
Reclining seats are optional on most Jeeps. Stock Base model seats don't recline. Keep in mind that the Rio Grande was a luxury package used to fill the gap of the Sahara which was in very limited numbers towards the end. The 4.0L was being siphoned off to the Cherokee and GC.
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how hard would it be to fab up a roof top tent of your own? im thinking getting a few base boards or maybe boards made of light but strong plastic. Get a few pieces that are the width and length of your roof rack, put some hinges on them so they can fold out and over the side of the jeep and use some aluminum tubes as legs to support the sides that will lay over the right or left of the jeep. then you can just secure a standard tent on the top. Since the base boards are the width and length of your roof top they would just lay on top of one another when not in use-if they're thin enough you can still stack gear on top of em. Just an idea really, dunno if it would be feasable to try or just easier to buy one.
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Winging it to a large extent teaches good survival skills and gets you pretty handy rigging stuff up to get back to civilization. If the vehicle has some life left in it it beats walking. You will be amazed what you can get out of a vehicle before it quits all together and gives up its last breath
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This is a funny thread, I want to see trail pics of the first expedition ride.
Some folks have done a expedition trip around the North rim of the Grand Canyon looks like a very nice trip, Same goes for some of the runs people do through the Colorado mountains. Truth be told Jeffy, your Jeep is ready and more than capable as is.
Just load er up strap a gas can to the back if need be and explore the wide wide yonder. A lot of this is about doing not about thinking about it, life is to darn short to waste it. I have done a lot of exploring on foot and hitchiking, wandered into the wilderness with just a backpack and had a ball. Having a set of wheels to take you there is even better. Just go and have fun see if you enjoy it as much as you think you will before you spend a lot of coin
I also agree with this. Just check it and get it in top shape mechanically with no additional mods. If you need more range, a gas can on the side of the Jeep between the front fender and door will do. If you need less strain on the drivetrain trade tires with somebody who wants to go from 33s to 35s, many would probably jump at the opportunity. As for space, a Jeep is a great vehicle for two people with no need for an outside rack, just pack it to the roof. Years ago I did a lot of expedition trips in 2wd pickups and vans (northern Mexico mostly: Sonora, Chihuahua, Pinacate Desert (a must do), Baja and some in the US: Camino del Diablo/Tinajas Altas). We got stuck every so often and had to jack and dig and fill and push (had plenty of help) but it was fun and we got to see a lot of country.
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Oh, and, based on experience, the three main things that helped a lot are: extra gas carrying capacity, some way to air up tires, and two spare tires.
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Has anybody thought on how (or where) to add a drinkable water tank to the jeep? May be a reverse osmosis filtering system or something like that? Carrying water is just as important as carrying enough fuel.
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Has anybody thought on how (or where) to add a drinkable water tank to the jeep? May be a reverse osmosis filtering system or something like that? Carrying water is just as important as carrying enough fuel.
There are a number of portable hand pumps that the backpacker crowd use. They range in price. They are pretty small and could be easily stored. There are a number of storage options as far as containers are concerned. I saw in one of the Mags a water bag that attached to the roll bar. If I find it I'll post a link.
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Bear attacks
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fatal_bear_attacks_in_North_America
Average of 3 or 4 fatalities a year in north america. vs
70 rural serious crimes just this year in the US. (AS best I could tell from what stats I was able to google up.)
I've had an average of one serious (I define serious as deciding I may have to shoot someone.)
about every 4 to 5 years, Usually wrapped around either me being where a mushroom picker thinks I
should not be, or someone deciding my camp is part of a road. Had a real close call 2 years ago
out in the eastern Oregon desert. Drunk almost ran over my tent doing cookies in a campground.
Man always seem sot create the worst problems.
Dave
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I'll revive this thread since this pertains to it. I found something strange with some of the roof racks available on the market today. Garvin is probably arguably one of the best. I was looking at their Expedition rack which has struts that attach to the body. The problem I found was that it was only rated for 300lbs. When you look at their other racks like the track rack which uses rails bolted to the hardtop, it's rated for 500lbs. Seems strange that the Expedition rack is rated with less weight then the Track rack.
I've been thinking about changing my Con-Ferr rack for a Garvin Track rack since it's longer and wider while having less surfaces for air to grab.
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i see you're leaning towards expedition rig :thumbsup: Have you (aside from the roof rack) decided on any other parts/mods. will you be taking off previous parts you've installed or building up from what you have?
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i see you're leaning towards expedition rig :thumbsup: Have you (aside from the roof rack) decided on any other parts/mods. will you be taking off previous parts you've installed or building up from what you have?
There really isn't anything that doesn't cross over so no, I won't have to remove anything. I'm looking at getting a power inverter, Ready Welder, maybe a new rack, and a bunch of small things; marine 12V sockets so I can hardwire new plugs, jerry cans, water can, etc... My Jeep has always been a daily driver so that's what kept it dual-purpose already. I still need to add some of other basics like rear corner panels and replace my nerf guards for rocker guards. I also want to add an extra Optima. Oh and I'll probably get a kilby gas tank skid and maybe his belly and engine skid as well. I'll have to also figure out what lights I'm going to use on the rack. Probably some cheap floods and maybe some Kragen HID's.
There are a bunch of even smaller things I want to do as well. Like seal the distributor and put a breather on it. Seal the intake and maybe make a snorkel, too. Extend/replace all of the other breathers. Then seal the PCM. I would also like to replace all of my gauges with sealed aftermarket versions. Maybe redo the dash with a flat panel so I can re-arrange them. When the wiring gets wet the gauges don't always work, Still, it's fairly robust or more accurately old school so there is no shorting to really worry about.
I want to replace the D30 with a 44 but I'll probably end up keeping my rear D44 instead of going with D60's as the weight and loss of ground clearance is an issue if I go back to 33's. With 33's and D60's you end up plowing the trails and uprooting rocks. 44's are a better median. I'll probably swap the axle shafts for some alloy's and maybe change the brakes to discs so they don't fill up with crap. I want to move to 5 on 5.5" or 6 on 5.5" as they are more commonly used wheels and the larger bolt patter is stronger. I'm not sure if I'd FF the rear axle though. Haven't seen any kits around anymore. I'll have to check with WARN again and see if they have them. I'd put drive flanges in the rear and not hubs though.
As for drivetrain, I still want an Atlas 4.0 with the 10.34:1 gearing. This would depend on where you are but for me, I'd want to be able to crawl up rocks still. If there are less rocks and more mud then you wouldn't need such low gearing.
I'll also have to consider upgrading my Amateur Band License to General. I haven't used my 2M in a long time so I've forgotten a lot. I'd like to get a HF radio though as those will be able to reach longer distances then 100-200mile range.
Then there's the fire extinguisher. I've been wanting a large 10lbs for a while. I'm thinking a foam might be better so it's more making a huge mess with the dry chem. Not to mention getting dry chem into the engine. Anyone put any thought into this already?
I'm focusing on a crawler/explorer and not a purely KISS as out here I mostly see rocks or wooded dirt trails and not so much mud.
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Def foam over dry chem. Dry chem will get everywhere and doesnt disapate heat as well as foam. nothing cools like water, but when it comes to putting out a fire-smothering is one thing, but you def want to cool as well and foam will do that to an extent, better than dry chem.
As far as a snorkel, are you concerned with losing performance from fabing one yourself. I tend to think (and it's an opinion shared by some of my other jeeping buddies) that the inherent design of the snorkel restricts air flow. there are models out there that are designed to negate that but they cost a bit more. If you somehow were able to design the tube to ram air down into the intake, you may be able to eliminate the force the engine will exhert in pulling air down the tube. My buddy was telling me about a friend of his who fabbed a tube for his XJ and kinda regrets it now as he's no longer getting the air flow he had off the stock box. It does get the job done, but i tend to think for an expedition vehicle (and certainly for your purposes) removing as much stress from the engine as possible through mechanical or electronic means will benefit in the end given the long distances and terrain you will cross.
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Def foam over dry chem. Dry chem will get everywhere and doesnt disapate heat as well as foam. nothing cools like water, but when it comes to putting out a fire-smothering is one thing, but you def want to cool as well and foam will do that to an extent, better than dry chem.
As far as a snorkel, are you concerned with losing performance from fabing one yourself. I tend to think (and it's an opinion shared by some of my other jeeping buddies) that the inherent design of the snorkel restricts air flow. there are models out there that are designed to negate that but they cost a bit more. If you somehow were able to design the tube to ram air down into the intake, you may be able to eliminate the force the engine will exhert in pulling air down the tube. My buddy was telling me about a friend of his who fabbed a tube for his XJ and kinda regrets it now as he's no longer getting the air flow he had off the stock box. It does get the job done, but i tend to think for an expedition vehicle (and certainly for your purposes) removing as much stress from the engine as possible through mechanical or electronic means will benefit in the end given the long distances and terrain you will cross.
Well, I know I'm not going with a Dry-Chem. I've used them in the part for kitchen fires and they make a huge mess. Problem is, if you're on the trail, you don't want to have to clean that up to get your vehicle going again. I was going to buy a 10# foam but couldn't ship it in the Jeep. (There is some law against shipping vehicles with fire extinguishers.) CA also has laws that ban some fire extinguishers which the foam model was on. There is also some new Halon type gas and CO2's available. I kind of like the CO2 since you can use it for more things and it's refillable.
For snorkels or even regular intake, you need to plan ahead. Shorter routes are better then longer ones. Curved bends are better then straight ones. Snorkels aren't for performance or for looks. Most aren't even for water crossings but rather dust. I've had to play sweeper on a really dusty trails before. Afterward, it was in everything, the stock cleaner was packed up with dust. So performance isn't really what they're there for. With that said, with proper routing and minimizing lengths, bends and other things that can affect flow, you shouldn't have worse performance. Like what I've mentioned before about intakes, it also true for snorkels. You have to play around with lengths and tube size. Larger dia. tubes will allow for more air but at the cost of PSI and with a longer way to travel, it's important to keep it high. I've seen some poorly designed snorkels though. 3" drainage pipes, rain caps that restrict too much, poor routing, etc....
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For vehicle fires, take a look at a wet extinguisher with a additive called Cold-Fire.
You can juice the extinguisher with a large CO2 cartridge (Think life jacket) and the
cold fire works awesome on oil fires. The other cool part is you can refill them yourself.
Dave
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For the dust at the centrifugal prefilter of a farm tractor on your Snorkel will fling most of the dust out into a collector bowl help keep the air filter cleaner
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For vehicle fires, take a look at a wet extinguisher with a additive called Cold-Fire.
You can juice the extinguisher with a large CO2 cartridge (Think life jacket) and the
cold fire works awesome on oil fires. The other cool part is you can refill them yourself.
Dave
I'll have to check them out. I HATE dry-chem though.
For the dust at the centrifugal prefilter of a farm tractor on your Snorkel will fling most of the dust out into a collector bowl help keep the air filter cleaner
Thanks! Didn't think of that one. Safari sells a 7" and a 10" prefilter. Actually that's what I was sort of looking for but never knew what they were called.
(http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa206/CodyLX450R/IMG_0615.jpg)
Here are their stats;
7" 90 - 200 CFM
10" 200 - 450 CFM
I think I'd have to talk to someone at ARB to see which one is best. Although, I'm thinking the 10" will help offset any additional restrictions from having a snorkel.
What about other tools? Tyrepliers? Or go with the Bead Breaker for the Hi-lift? http://www.extremeoutback.com/index.cgi?cart_id=1208702.1460&pid=118
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7" 90 - 200 CFM
10" 200 - 450 CFM
i'd say go with 10'' as 200cfm is to close to what the 2.5 requires.
there are some spinner ones as well that apparently are the best for spitting out the dust rather than catching it, they are expensive though. the plastic ones get sandblasted inside, not sure if there is a glass version of those
this is all from memory from when i was looking at a cap for my snorkel - i was also considering a sock (the knn type) that goes over the filter but have it over the snorkel cap instead - not sure how that would work though.
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i'd say go with 10'' as 200cfm is to close to what the 2.5 requires.
there are some spinner ones as well that apparently are the best for spitting out the dust rather than catching it, they are expensive though. the plastic ones get sandblasted inside, not sure if there is a glass version of those
this is all from memory from when i was looking at a cap for my snorkel - i was also considering a sock (the knn type) that goes over the filter but have it over the snorkel cap instead - not sure how that would work though.
I wouldn't want glass. Even if the plastic gets scratched, it's not really a big deal as long as you can see if it's full.
The problem with a sock is that you have to clean it still and if it's really dusty, you're cleaning it on the side of the road or in the middle of the trail. I think the self cleaning pre-filters are teh way to go. This is what a majority of the Land Rovers and Cruisers are set up with in the UK and AU. I've seen some that don't use the clear plastic but rather black plastic. I haven't really looked into those since I didn't know the were pre-filters.