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General Forums => The Mess Hall => Topic started by: jfrabat on November 15, 2009, 01:43:31 PM
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OK, so here's the deal: as you know, I have my Jeep in Panama while I live in Costa Rica. The issue started when my dad got the bright idea of cleaning my engine (which I already had done, so there was no necessity to do this!). He did, and when he started the Jeep afterwards, it was not running right, so he turned it off. After a few hours, he went to start it up again, and it turned, but did not fire.
According to him, he sprayed cleaner onto the engine, and then rinsed it off with a garden hose (no pressure). he did not cover ANY of the sensors or electronic components, though... Exactly how much water he used, i can only speculate...
I had him check the fuel rail for pressure (as some of you may remember, a bad fuel pump left me in the middle of the highway when I drove the Jeep to the port to ship it to Panama), and there was pressure there, so it seems fuel is not the problem. That means spark. I do have an extra coil in the Jeep that I can test when I get there, but I am not sure if he could have ruined the distributor when he rinsed the engine... If so, what am I looking at? Rotor and cap or worse?
By the way, he already checked that the sensors are properly connected, and he says they are, at least the TPS, IAS, MAP and CPS...
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take the rotor cap out - sometimes there's condensation after washing the engine - blow dry it, do the same for the wires and spark plug holes (make sure there's no water there). This is the least troubling scenario, other ones might involve contacts, but mind you all of the jeep ones are weatherpack connectors so they should be waterproof.
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take the rotor cap out - sometimes there's condensation after washing the engine - blow dry it, do the same for the wires and spark plug holes (make sure there's no water there). This is the least troubling scenario, other ones might involve contacts, but mind you all of the jeep ones are weatherpack connectors so they should be waterproof.
X2... had the same thing happen to me once, water in the dist cap after a rinse.
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I'll ask him to take apart the distributor and make sure everything is all dried up inside... Thanks for the replies!
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x3 except don't blow it dry with air, use something like wd40 that displaces water.
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number 1reason when i wash mine i leave running. if it starts to shutter or stall stop spraying that area
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x3 except don't blow it dry with air, use something like wd40 that displaces water.
WD40 INSIDE the distributor? Won´t it catch fire with the spark in there?
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No, it won't catch on fire. The propellant is what makes it flammable. I used to do this all the time - WD inside and then duct tape a bag on the outside before we'd do alot of water running.
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WD40 INSIDE the distributor? Won´t it catch fire with the spark in there?
never tried that, i would just make sure there's no water inside or condensation and use compressed air and a hairdryer afterwards. I heard of brakeclean but didn't tried that either.
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wd stand for water displacment 40th attempt it works
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Just make sure you keep WD40 off sealed bearings, it will wick right
past the seals, thin the grease out and reduce the bearings life.
I did get in a hurry once, sprayed the WD40 and it "popped" when I cranked it.
Spray the cap out and let it dry for a couple minutes before you put it back on...
Dave
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Spray brake cleaner on the places where you want to displace water. It forces the water out and then dries within seconds. Plus it's great for cleaning oil, grease and anything else you have off. It even works as a hornet/wasp killer! I always keep at least three cans of it in my tool box.
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Brake kleen is also bad mojo for sealed bearings, if you have a rear C-clip eliminator from ARB
they used sealed rear bearings and my kit had a warning placard in it about using solvents
around the bearings. Of course I solved that issue by tossing the D35 for a 44 with standard
rear bearings. The others to watch out for are the idler pulleys and your alternator and AC pump.
They all have permanently lubricated bearings as well and should not have cleaners sprayed in them..
Dave
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Brake kleen is also bad mojo for sealed bearings, if you have a rear C-clip eliminator from ARB
they used sealed rear bearings and my kit had a warning placard in it about using solvents
around the bearings. Of course I solved that issue by tossing the D35 for a 44 with standard
rear bearings.
Dave, you lost me here; I think you did not read the upper posts... The brake cleaner would go into the distributor cap (nowhere near the D35).
The others to watch out for are the idler pulleys and your alternator and AC pump.
They all have permanently lubricated bearings as well and should not have cleaners sprayed in them..
These are closer to the distributor...
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Dave, you lost me here; I think you did not read the upper posts... The brake cleaner would go into the distributor cap (nowhere near the D35).
These are closer to the distributor...
:roflol:
that was freakin' funny
on another note, i would think that the water is gone by now, did your dad got it started?
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:roflol:
that was freakin' funny
on another note, i would think that the water is gone by now, did your dad got it started?
x2 :lol:
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:roflol:
that was freakin' funny
on another note, i would think that the water is gone by now, did your dad got it started?
Actually, he just dropped in as a urprise visit for my B-Day next week...
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Sorry I was commenting on indiscriminate use of brake cleaner,
Its really designed to clean the surfaces of brake drums and rotors, its not a universal cleaner.
I've seen some nasty damage done to electrical systems by it.
It reacts with some insulators and rubber bits. It will destroy some MAF sensors.
The distributor has a sealed bearing in the top just below the trigger assembly/cam sensor,
if you spray brake clean down into the distributor it can wash the oil out of the upper bearing.
Make more sense? :puzzled:
Dave
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OK, guys, I am OFFICIALLY stumped; I got to Panama today, and I figured the Jeep would start up (since I was suspecting water in the distributor), but it did not. I checked again fuel pressure, and it was fine. Checked for spark, but no spark, so I though it was the coil. Had one in the Jeep, so installed it. Nothing. Figured it could be the ECU, and since I had one of those as well in the Jeep, tried it. Nothing. Took out the code scanner, and I got a code 54; the code scanner says something about the code 54 being something about the injectors, but reading the FAQ, it seems it is the CPS. What do you guys think? Now, the CPS I replaced before leaving Miami (maybe 6 months ago?), but what do you think? Bad CPS?
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Didn't somebody just go through a bunch of hell because of a poor connection/ corrosion on one of the fuses for something obscure that also fed a signal to the ecm?
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Didn't somebody just go through a bunch of hell because of a poor connection/ corrosion on one of the fuses for something obscure that also fed a signal to the ecm?
it was a broken wire on the ASD control wire i believe
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OK, guys, I am OFFICIALLY stumped; I got to Panama today, and I figured the Jeep would start up (since I was suspecting water in the distributor), but it did not. I checked again fuel pressure, and it was fine. Checked for spark, but no spark, so I though it was the coil. Had one in the Jeep, so installed it. Nothing. Figured it could be the ECU, and since I had one of those as well in the Jeep, tried it. Nothing. Took out the code scanner, and I got a code 54; the code scanner says something about the code 54 being something about the injectors, but reading the FAQ, it seems it is the CPS. What do you guys think? Now, the CPS I replaced before leaving Miami (maybe 6 months ago?), but what do you think? Bad CPS?
By the way, the first time I read the codes, I also got a code 11. After I erased that one, it did not come back (only the 54 kept coming back). According to the FAQ:
Code Description
11
•No crank reference signal detected during engine cranking.
•Intermittent loss of either camshaft or crankshaft position sensor.
•CKP sensor target windows have too much variation.
Code Description
54 No camshaft signal detected during engine cranking.
So it defenetly sounds like a CPS to me, so I asked my dad to buy one while I'm at work today. What do you guys think? CPS as well? As far as I know, there is no camshaft sensors on a YJ, right?
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They refer to the sensor inside the distributor as the cam position sensor.
Often related to water infiltration or oil from a bad shaft seal.
The CPS should throw a hard code "Should" being the key word.... :)
Dave
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By the way, the first time I read the codes, I also got a code 11. After I erased that one, it did not come back (only the 54 kept coming back). According to the FAQ:
So it defenetly sounds like a CPS to me, so I asked my dad to buy one while I'm at work today. What do you guys think? CPS as well? As far as I know, there is no camshaft sensors on a YJ, right?
i would focus on the cam sensor to start - i posted in another thread the method of checking the cam sensor (copy paste from FSM so you can find it there as well) using a needle type voltmeter - let me know if you can't find it and will post it again. Since this started with the engine being washed i would check that the Cam pos sensor has good contact as well - the cam and crank sensors are sealed so it's unlikely that the water make them die (but you never know), check the signals first.
like dwtaylor said, the cam sensor is the sensor inside the distributor.
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The story I was talking about had to do with the fuse and circuit for the courtesy lights. Still start with the basics see if you get a signal out of the cam sensor and crank sensor. It's one of the reasons I don't care for steam cleaning or pressure washing engines, all the weather pac seals on connectors do not stand up to that much water pressure
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The story I was talking about had to do with the fuse and circuit for the courtesy lights.
you probably mean the dome light related post, that was a bit confusing as there is no dome light fuse (or courtesy lights) on the under-dash fuseblock and that's the one he referred to - there is an ASD fuse there so that could have been the prob (makes more sense) but we didn't get a definite answer as in which fuse it was (i posted a diagram of the fuseblock asking which one it was but no answer yet). link to that thread http://4bangerjp.com/forums/index.php/topic,7718.msg59267.html#msg59267
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i would focus on the cam sensor to start - i posted in another thread the method of checking the cam sensor (copy paste from FSM so you can find it there as well) using a needle type voltmeter - let me know if you can't find it and will post it again. Since this started with the engine being washed i would check that the Cam pos sensor has good contact as well - the cam and crank sensors are sealed so it's unlikely that the water make them die (but you never know), check the signals first.
like dwtaylor said, the cam sensor is the sensor inside the distributor.
also check and make sure you get 12v from ASD at the coil and/or injectors, same for fuel pump relay. here's the post where i pasted the camshaft position sensor test procedure (from the FSM page 6 in file 95XJ_8D.pdf) - keep in mind that you need a needle type multimeter, the digital one will not work.
http://4bangerjp.com/forums/index.php/topic,7246.msg53622.html#msg53622
here's the crank position sensor test from the same manual, not as extensive as the cam one and i would guess that is not as accurate either unless you use the scan tool. I would think that the same test procedure from the cam sensor could also work for the crank sensor (although i did not try it) to see if you get signals from it
CRANKSHAFT POSITION SENSOR TEST
To perform a complete test of this sensor and its
circuitry, refer to the DRB scan tool. Also refer to the
appropriate Powertrain Diagnostics Procedures manual.
To test the sensor only, refer to the following:
The sensor is located on the transmission bellhousing
at the left/rear side of the engine block (Figs. 2, 3
or 4).
(1) Near the rear of the intake manifold, disconnect
sensor pigtail harness connector from main wiring
harness.
(2) Place an ohmmeter across terminals B and C
(Fig. 5). Ohmmeter should be set to 1K-to-10K scale
for this test. The meter reading should be open (no
resistance). Replace sensor if a low resistance is indicated.
For removal or installation of ignition system components,
refer to the Component Removal/Installation
section of this group.
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Well, I already bought the CPS, but I will check the camshaft sensor tonight based on the FSM (I have that on my PC, but was too lazy to read it!)
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Well, I already bought the CPS, but I will check the camshaft sensor tonight based on the FSM (I have that on my PC, but was too lazy to read it!)
check the ASD voltage output as well, make sure you've got 12v while cranking or you won't get spark or gas otherwise (also listen for the fuel pump or check the voltage at the FP relay)
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check the ASD voltage output as well, make sure you've got 12v while cranking or you won't get spark or gas otherwise (also listen for the fuel pump or check the voltage at the FP relay)
I already switched the ASD relay, and the fuel pump is priming (I have fuel pressure at the rail). It certainly sounds like you guys are correct, and the cam sensor is either ruined or there is still water in there (I'll open up the distributor tonight and we will find out then). I already printed the procedures for testing and replacing it just in case...
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Just to update; changed out the Cam Timing Sensor, and VROOOM! By the way, my distributor is from a TJ, not a YJ (the things you find, huh?), so it's a good thing I took out the previous cam sensor and took it to the store...
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Just to update; changed out the Cam Timing Sensor, and VROOOM! By the way, my distributor is from a TJ, not a YJ (the things you find, huh?), so it's a good thing I took out the previous cam sensor and took it to the store...
so did you get a chance to test it or just went ahead and buy another one?
glad you got it working
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so did you get a chance to test it or just went ahead and buy another one?
glad you got it working
I tested it as per the FSM, but I could not get any voltage readings out of it... So I went ahead and replaced it and BINGO!
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I tested it as per the FSM, but I could not get any voltage readings out of it... So I went ahead and replaced it and BINGO!
well, you got a spare crank sensor now :lol:
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well, you got a spare crank sensor now :lol:
Yeah, I already stored it in the Jeep in case I need it down the line...