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General Forums => The Mess Hall => Topic started by: smashcoast on December 26, 2009, 09:24:54 PM
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(Thanks Jeff) I just installed my Kilby gas tank skid and it is beefy and raises the tank 1" like claimed!
While I was at it I printed up Jeffy's Gas tank mod and went to work. In a 97TJ the tube is molded to the tank and 8" long inside the tank. So I cut it as close as I could get to the tank. Also the fuel gauge was past the red and there might have been almost 2 gals in the tank still.
So after I was done installing everything I went to Chevron and pumped 17.8 gals! Normally when the tank is that low I could get close to 13 gals in the tank, so it works!
So with almost 20 gals in the tank and 10 gals in gerry cans I should have plenty of fuel for some long trips! :biggrin:
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It makes a pretty big difference. My range on one tank is a little over 300 miles with highway driving. I still haven't gotten around to getting a Kilby Skid. I've debated on if I want to do a stretch and use a new tank or just leave the wheelbase alone which has set me back. I'll probably jsut leave it alone and go with a skid plate and call it good.
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It's a good skid, I also got their steering box skid. I wanted one that didn't require a boby lift and raised the tank 1". Plus it was 20% at 4wheel parts black friday sale (which was a week before thanksgiving).
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I've known about the gas tank mo from even before I owned my YJ but never really considered doing it. Seen an ongoing thread on JF about it and after seeing this today, I decided to take a whack at it. Took me about 40 min to do it by the time I did everything. Still have yet to go top off the tank but knowing I can now drive to Tahoe and even drive around town for a few days on the same tank is awesome :gimp:
I could probably have made it on a tank before the mod but never attempted it, figured it was just too close to call
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Have one laying on my garage floor...its going in soon. Foung it on pirate shipped to my door for 200
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im gonna be drivin to florida from CT next month..i might just want to do this tank mod. ~150 miles is generally what i can get out of one tank highway driving..would be nice to increase that....does this tank mod give you any extra horsepower or miles per gallon? kidding :)
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by the way..is there a safe length to cut it at? cutting it too short may cause it to overfill and spill out the gas cap right? can you cut it safely to get to about 20 gallons?
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by the way..is there a safe length to cut it at? cutting it too short may cause it to overfill and spill out the gas cap right? can you cut it safely to get to about 20 gallons?
Mine overfilled before I did the mod so I can't speak for that... But I cut about 7.25" off mine. And definitely do it before you take your road trip. I'm at 207 on my tripometer and my gauge is reading that there's a little less than half a tank :twofingers:
Sure is nice having those extra miles per tank. It feels awesome knowing I don't have to stop every 2-2.5 hours for gas :doggy:
And it's awesome watching your gas gauge stay full for 80+ miles hehe
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by the way..is there a safe length to cut it at? cutting it too short may cause it to overfill and spill out the gas cap right? can you cut it safely to get to about 20 gallons?
When I did this to my YJ I just took the whole tube out. On your TJ I would cut it as short as I could manage. You might get a bit of spillage but not enough to worry about IMO.
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by the way..is there a safe length to cut it at? cutting it too short may cause it to overfill and spill out the gas cap right? can you cut it safely to get to about 20 gallons?
On a YJ, just pull the tube out. Back then there was worry that the tank port needed the extra strength but that's not really necessary.
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On the TJ cut it up against the tank. No overfill problems yet but that was only one fill.
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It needs just a little air forthe purge system to work correctly, if the fuel gets to the top of the tank it can suck fuel into the charcoal canister.
Dave
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It needs just a little air forthe purge system to work correctly, if the fuel gets to the top of the tank it can suck fuel into the charcoal canister.
Dave
could you explain this please?
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how easy is this to do on a TJ? can anyone provide details on this procedure? Open gas cap. place a jack on each side of the tank and loosen the bolts. lower the tank. are there lines that need to be disconnected? once the tank is down can i just reach inside and feel for the line that needs to be cut? is it molded along the right side or left? any details would be appreciated.
stan
i did some research about this and i guess not many TJ owners have done this..there really isnt any info on it. i found this site http://www.jedi.com/obiwan/jeep/15to20gal.html (http://www.jedi.com/obiwan/jeep/15to20gal.html) and at the bottom of the page there are a few sentences about the mod for a TJ tank..but they dont include cutting anything, rather moving some type of clip from one position (apparently the 15gallon setting) to the other position (apparently the 20gallon setting). The other thing is, once this mod is done..how well can u trust your guage? will it read true once the 5gallons are consumed?
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FAQ
http://4bangerjp.com/forums/index.php/topic,10.0.html
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that was where i first checked jeffy. but on the FAQ it says to cut the filler tube..however in the forum is a thread floating around from 2007 where a member advises not to cut the filler, but rather the vent tube. and then the site i found through a google search apparently does this without cutting anything.
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On a 94 you can just pull the fill limiter tube out with a pair
of pliers, but if you do it can allow the fuel to contaminate
the vapor recovery system off road. Cutting the tube off
a couple inches is safer.
The tube enters the tank at about a 45 degree angle,
when the fuel gets to it the gas nozzle on the pump
turns off due to back pressure. By shortening the
tube the fuel gets higher in the tank before this
happens. If its too short teh fuel can get against the
vent valves and the sender/pump flange which has a
really crappy gasket system so it can leak, or the fuel gets
sucked up the purge lines into the charcoal canister and if it
goes on enough can allow fuel to be sucked into the intake
from the canister which is bad. You also want a small air space
above the fuel so in hot weather if you fill the tanks it does
not expand and push fuel out.
Dave
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Cutting the filler? That won't do anything except get rid of the roll over check ball. The vent tube is what causes the pump to shut off. I don't see how you can get by without cutting anything.
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Funny we must have hit return at the same time...
Dave
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Cutting the filler? That won't do anything except get rid of the roll over check ball. The vent tube is what causes the pump to shut off. I don't see how you can get by without cutting anything.
maybe im reading it wrong but it says cut the filler tube: "Once access is gained use PVC cutters ir any sharp shears and cut the filler tube as closely to the top as you're willing to go." had me confused, which is why i asked. maybe im reading this wrong or not understanding it. to be clear though, on a TJ, the vent tube is molded to the side of the tank and that is what needs to be cut.
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On a 94 you can just pull the fill limiter tube out with a pair
of pliers, but if you do it can allow the fuel to contaminate
the vapor recovery system off road. Cutting the tube off
a couple inches is safer.
The tube enters the tank at about a 45 degree angle,
when the fuel gets to it the gas nozzle on the pump
turns off due to back pressure. By shortening the
tube the fuel gets higher in the tank before this
happens. If its too short teh fuel can get against the
vent valves and the sender/pump flange which has a
really crappy gasket system so it can leak, or the fuel gets
sucked up the purge lines into the charcoal canister and if it
goes on enough can allow fuel to be sucked into the intake
from the canister which is bad. You also want a small air space
above the fuel so in hot weather if you fill the tanks it does
not expand and push fuel out.
Dave
your explanation makes a lot of sense, but this is what i'm thinking
there is no way you will ever be able to fill out the tank fully - there will be pokets of air in there as the top of the tank is not completely flat and the vehicle won't be perfectly level either. there is also a valve that releases pressure to the evap canister, if a small amount of fuel will make it to the tube going to it it will evaporate inside the canister. I'm also thinking that this is only when the vehicle is not running and that the valve won't open when the fuel pump is pushing fuel. And what happens when you have the Jeep parked on an incline, the fuel will make it to the evap line, there's no way to keep it away from there if the tank isn't leveled so that tube going inside the tank won't help in that instance.
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maybe im reading it wrong but it says cut the filler tube: "Once access is gained use PVC cutters ir any sharp shears and cut the filler tube as closely to the top as you're willing to go." had me confused, which is why i asked. maybe im reading this wrong or not understanding it. to be clear though, on a TJ, the vent tube is molded to the side of the tank and that is what needs to be cut.
You caught a typo. Look at the pictures.
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Stan, when you do this look for some Kilby gas tank skid installation instructions online.Maybe 4wd.com or Quadratec.com.
Follow their instructions. Once the tank is dropped you cut the vent tube which is the small tube next to the filler tube.
once you remove the sending unit, just put your hand and arm in side the tank and cut the small tube. The tube should be about 6-8" long.
Then put everything back. I have a 97TJ that was built in march 0f 96. I have seen before where someone said that the tanks did change at some point and it is only a 15 gal tank. Hopefully yours isnt!
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your explanation makes a lot of sense, but this is what i'm thinking
there is no way you will ever be able to fill out the tank fully - there will be pokets of air in there as the top of the tank is not completely flat and the vehicle won't be perfectly level either. there is also a valve that releases pressure to the evap canister, if a small amount of fuel will make it to the tube going to it it will evaporate inside the canister. I'm also thinking that this is only when the vehicle is not running and that the valve won't open when the fuel pump is pushing fuel. And what happens when you have the Jeep parked on an incline, the fuel will make it to the evap line, there's no way to keep it away from there if the tank isn't leveled so that tube going inside the tank won't help in that instance.
All I can say is this is how it worked for me,,,,
The top of the tank on mine dishes down about 1" around the pump opening.
The vent pipe is right on top of the tank edge, if you pull the pipe out and fill up,
and if the jeep is just slightly to the right it will really fill the tank.
I pulled mine out initially, and had fuel gushing out any time I filled it in hot weather,
I shortened the tube and put it back in so now I'm getting 20.5 instead of 22 gallons in the tank.
I also had lost of gas odor from the purge system, and fuel dripping from the top of the canister,
I pulled it off and dumped it out, it had about a pint of fuel in it.
It could be really dependent on the actual tank mold, year of the jeep, mounting hardware etc...
Dave
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All I can say is this is how it worked for me,,,,
The top of the tank on mine dishes down about 1" around the pump opening.
The vent pipe is right on top of the tank edge, if you pull the pipe out and fill up,
and if the jeep is just slightly to the right it will really fill the tank.
I pulled mine out initially, and had fuel gushing out any time I filled it in hot weather,
I shortened the tube and put it back in so now I'm getting 20.5 instead of 22 gallons in the tank.
I also had lost of gas odor from the purge system, and fuel dripping from the top of the canister,
I pulled it off and dumped it out, it had about a pint of fuel in it.
It could be really dependent on the actual tank mold, year of the jeep, mounting hardware etc...
Dave
since mine is speculation and yours is a fact i would leave a bit of a tube in the tank then if I would do the mod - how long inside the tank you cut yours?
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All I can say is this is how it worked for me,,,,
The top of the tank on mine dishes down about 1" around the pump opening.
The vent pipe is right on top of the tank edge, if you pull the pipe out and fill up,
and if the jeep is just slightly to the right it will really fill the tank.
I pulled mine out initially, and had fuel gushing out any time I filled it in hot weather,
I shortened the tube and put it back in so now I'm getting 20.5 instead of 22 gallons in the tank.
I also had lost of gas odor from the purge system, and fuel dripping from the top of the canister,
I pulled it off and dumped it out, it had about a pint of fuel in it.
It could be really dependent on the actual tank mold, year of the jeep, mounting hardware etc...
Dave
I didn't have any of these issues when I pulled the hose doing the 15 to 20 swap. Every now and again I would have gas burp out when the pump shut off but it was only a little gas, not enough to worry about.
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When one of my vent lines was missing the tank could be filled all the way if you pumped slowly. This can also happen if your pump gasket is not sealing well.
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When one of my vent lines was missing the tank could be filled all the way if you pumped slowly. This can also happen if your pump gasket is not sealing well.
That works even if your seals are fine. Pumping slowly, that is. It tricks the pump to keep on as there is very little pressure so it won't shut off.
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It could probably also be done fast with a high pressure stream such that the inflow of gas does not fill the fill tube completely. In this way, air could come out the same tube as we fill. We could develop the device, patent it, and market it for 4x4 enthusiasts who don't want to mod their tanks. Make the big bucks!
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Before I did the mod I would fill a Jerry can when I filled the tank. When I got home I would siphon the extra gas into the tank. Then when I upgrade my GTS I did the 15-20 mod.
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It could probably also be done fast with a high pressure stream such that the inflow of gas does not fill the fill tube completely. In this way, air could come out the same tube as we fill. We could develop the device, patent it, and market it for 4x4 enthusiasts who don't want to mod their tanks. Make the big bucks!
the size is limited by the pocket of air generated by the vent tube end which is below the top of the tank - it's an air bell effect, like when you sink a glass or bottle under water upside down, the air will be trapped inside the glass or bottle. the mod is still necessary regardless of the way you fill the tank.
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Yes, but you only get the air bell effect if the fill tube comes into the tank below the level of the top surface of the tank (maybe this is how it is internally, in which case you would be correct, although from the outside it seems to be pretty close to the top). Otherwise it is just like a bottle that can be filled without a vent tube as long as air can get out the same fill neck.
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Yes, but you only get the air bell effect if the fill tube comes into the tank below the level of the top surface of the tank (maybe this is how it is internally, in which case you would be correct, although from the outside it seems to be pretty close to the top). Otherwise it is just like a bottle that can be filled without a vent tube as long as air can get out the same fill neck.
that is the mod, to remove the vent tube (or cut it) and that's what i was saying. there's no mod to do if you don't have the vent tube or if it's already cut close to the top of the tank. I thought that's what you were saying, to not have to do the mod - or maybe i'm missing something from what you explained, i probably don't understand the concept of what you described.
EDIT: nevermind, i understand now - you were talking about air coming out the fill tube (i kept thinking of the vent tube) - i'll have to look at my tank to understand how it would work, didn't think of that.
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Stan, when you do this look for some Kilby gas tank skid installation instructions online.Maybe 4wd.com or Quadratec.com.
Follow their instructions. Once the tank is dropped you cut the vent tube which is the small tube next to the filler tube.
once you remove the sending unit, just put your hand and arm in side the tank and cut the small tube. The tube should be about 6-8" long.
Then put everything back. I have a 97TJ that was built in march 0f 96. I have seen before where someone said that the tanks did change at some point and it is only a 15 gal tank. Hopefully yours isnt!
Is there any way to make sure it is a 20gallon before taking the entire tank down?
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Is there any way to make sure it is a 20gallon before taking the entire tank down?
Fill your tank and a gas can, drive it home, siphon in the gas can. Or you can pour it in real slow with a funnel.
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Stan i'm not sure if there is away to check out the size before dropping the tank.
So maybe wait to do it until you get a new gas tank skid. You will have to drop the tank then and you'll be able to check then.
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Fill your tank and a gas can, drive it home, siphon in the gas can. Or you can pour it in real slow with a funnel.
I figure this should work given the fact the gas pump cuts off from the vent line pressure. so if i top it off and im able to pour in another gallon, that should be a safe estimate it has a 20gallon tank right?
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I figure this should work given the fact the gas pump cuts off from the vent line pressure. so if i top it off and im able to pour in another gallon, that should be a safe estimate it has a 20gallon tank right?
After filling up at the pump you should be able to get about 4 more gallons in. My buddy with his 97TJ 2.5L did this and was able to get 4 more gallons in his. You just need to pour it slowly with a funnel, or use a siphon. It needs to be added slowly.
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:dance:Thanks for another great tip!!!!!!!! :clap: The tube was tough to get out. It is great to have that extra fuel. Needed it this past weekend. Took awhile to get out of an area that had a closed road.
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well. i tested it out. had a little under a quarter tank left. filled about 10.8gallons till pump clicked off. then i slowly (took like 10 freakin minutes!!!!) filled 5.5 more gallons into the tank before it spilled out the fill. i think this prob means i have a 20g tank. Smashcoast, how much did you cut off the vent line? if it's about 8", should i take about half or more of it off?
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I cut it all off, cut it flush with the tank or as close as you can get.
Like I said I waited to do mine when i did my skid protection, it makes sense to kill 2 birds with 1 stone.
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I put my kilby gas tank skid in and the mod worker great. I left 3 inches of tube on and no problems when filling