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General Forums => The Mess Hall => Topic started by: TahoeYJ on December 28, 2009, 11:27:08 PM
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What's the good, bad, and ugly on them? For how cheap they seem to be I'm honestly considering one for my rig. I drive mostly street, wheel when I can (hopefully that will be lots more this spring/summer).
Edit: Also, this question pertains just to having one in the rear... :thumbsup:
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They are not mild mannered. I have a ARB locking it on pavement is OK on a mild road with no sharp turns, But driving around town would be vicious.
I do have a spool in a couple road race cars, its alright once you hit about 80 mph and the car is sliding.
Dave
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If you had a trailer queen then I'd say do it, but since you drive on the street a lot I'd say pass.
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Soooo basically, don't be cheap and save up for a Detroit or even an ARB? :wall:
Not to sound stupid... But say since a Detroit is always locked, what makes it different on road?
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Spool sucks on the street, Detroit isn't to sweet either go ARB or Ox or atleast a Detroit soft locker. I have driven 2 TJ's with Detroits so far and on the street I do not care for it at all. For a couple of hundred dollars more you can have something that works every bit as good offroad, but you just don't know it's there on the street
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Spool sucks on the street, Detroit isn't to sweet either go ARB or Ox or atleast a Detroit soft locker. I have driven 2 TJ's with Detroits so far and on the street I do not care for it at all. For a couple of hundred dollars more you can have something that works every bit as good offroad, but you just don't know it's there on the street
OX locker is honestly what I really would go for in the rear, maybe by the time I upgrade to a locker they'll have one available for the 9"... I really hope they do at some point, I like the idea of a mechanical locker
I've heard mixed reviews from various people running a Detroit in the rear of many different rigs... I wonder if the road manners of a YJ would be any different than that of a TJ though when equipped with a rear Detroit...
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I love my Detroit. Wouldn't trade it for anything.
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Detroits work great offroad, but compare it to a selectable locker is a built rig pretty much like yours and drive it on the street and then go from there. We all pretty much favor what we got, but it's nice to compare it to comparable stuff on other rigs gives you a better understanding of what is what. Still Detroits are great lockers that work very well
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Spool sucks on the street
Have you experience with a spool on the street?
I've daily driven my jeep for years with a spool in the rear, no problems. It's super predictable and KISS simple, nothing to go wrong. I've ridden in some rigs with a rear Detroit, and in all honesty the constant bangs from locking and unlocking is very annoying. Often sounds/feels like the rear end is coming apart, and the sudden lane changes can be unnerving.
Many of my friends whom have made the switch to a rear spool love it, and wish they would have switched sooner.
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Friend of mine had one in the front and it sucked another one put one in the rear loved it offroad but did not care for it on the street unfortunately he could not afford anything else an in the end just sold the Jeep since he did not care much for driving it on the street anymore. I am with you on the detroit behavior, don't care for it on the street still will probably bu a pair of them for my other Jeep
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Have you experience with a spool on the street?
I've daily driven my jeep for years with a spool in the rear, no problems. It's super predictable and KISS simple, nothing to go wrong.
that's the other reason I've been thinking about them, there's no parts to fail and no cables/air lines/compressors or anything to go bad like a selectable.
It's still kind of a toss-up... for the price of the spool I'm still considering one, I can get one from the guy I bought my gears from for $125. I plan on upgrading to some Moser 31 spline shafts and some sort of locker in the future so for the price I'm almost gun-ho to buy the spool. I know it's sort of wasteful to spend that $125 when I'm just going to dump it one day, so I could use it for something else... I was considering an Aussie up front but with the amount of snow driving I'm leaning away from it now...
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While I love my spools, have them front and rear, they're not for everybody. If you're like me and don't run a front trackbar (YJ), a little more steering input is required. The spool wants the jeep to go straight all the time, so when you turn the steering wheel with no trackbar the steering tends to push the axle to the side before you begin turning. I don't notice it anymore, but it is there.
Then there's the idea that in every turn you are losing traction on one tire, usually the inside tire as it tries to spin faster to keep up with the outside tire. It hasn't been a problem for me, even in the snow, but it's something to be aware of so you can drive accordingly.
I expected problems in the snow but for me the spool has been very manageable, and often downright fun. Traction is great and you can have a lot of fun when you want with just a blip of the throttle.
Run a spool in the back and save the big bucks for the front, where a limited slip or a selectable locker sounds like the best option for you. If you run a TJ, you will want a limited slip or selectable for the front as any locker will tend to push the jeep straight when trying to turn (in the snow).
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driveability is one of the issues but you guys covered all that, so...
imho, it's not just how it drives, it is also about the loss and wear in the powertrain - so since left and right side would fight each-other for the difference in travel, and i am not talking turning left/right at the end of the street you're on - even the slightest turns matter, would be like driving with the foot lightly on the brake - will decrease mpg, increase overall drivetrain wear and tire wear as well - something to keep in mind
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you mean like this
Yes, unless the surface you are driving on allows the tires to slip. On dry pavement you would get chirping, and you only get so many axle twist cycles before they snap.
Here's my favorite picture of what can happen when you run a spool on the street - the shafts from my old CJ
(http://oldjeep.com/images/winter0304projects/Winter0304Projects%20005.jpg)
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if your going to buy a spool why not just weld the spiders??
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if your going to buy a spool why not just weld the spiders??
carrier can give (spider gears also) - not sure if it's the case with the said axle but i think that's the main reason. Also, no point on carrying that much weight around if not using it, a spool would weigh less.
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Either one works seen several spools with the splines torn out so they are not entirely fool proof either
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carrier can give (spider gears also) - not sure if it's the case with the said axle but i think that's the main reason. Also, no point on carrying that much weight around if not using it, a spool would weigh less.
you been driving around with the weight already anyway. welding is free if you have the welder and also no shimming or bearing required to get the proper back lash back on the gears
less work and cheaper then a spool and if you bust the carrier oh well then get the spool or whatever you can get at the time.
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you been driving around with the weight already anyway. welding is free if you have the welder and also no shimming or bearing required to get the proper back lash back on the gears
less work and cheaper then a spool and if you bust the carrier oh well then get the spool or whatever you can get at the time.
With the posi carrier in my 9" you've got at least remove the ring gear to get to the spiders. From that point I don't know what else is requires. With the 3rd member all assembled there's one small hole that provides view to inside the carrier. So if I'm going to have to go through that much work, I'd rather just slap the spool in.
I'm still up in the air about it... Again for the price it almost seems worth it. And if I didn't like it, worst I'd have to do is go back to the OE carrier for the time being. I know it's a lot of wasted labor, but meh...
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With the posi carrier in my 9" you've got at least remove the ring gear to get to the spiders. From that point I don't know what else is requires. With the 3rd member all assembled there's one small hole that provides view to inside the carrier. So if I'm going to have to go through that much work, I'd rather just slap the spool in.
I'm still up in the air about it... Again for the price it almost seems worth it. And if I didn't like it, worst I'd have to do is go back to the OE carrier for the time being. I know it's a lot of wasted labor, but meh...
ummm Ok if I had a posi carrier already why would you go to a spool or bother welding them in the first place? posi is great if your mainly on road vs off road
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ummm Ok if I had a posi carrier already why would you go to a spool or bother welding them in the first place? posi is great if your mainly on road vs off road
clutches are worn out and it's the old school Equa-Lock carrier, which they no longer make parts for. I saw an auction for a set of clutch plates way back when but didn't jump on them. Only time I ever feel the posi is turning right in the rain when I want to get a little squirrley :bandit:
Other than that, I have ZERO additional traction...
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you been driving around with the weight already anyway. welding is free if you have the welder and also no shimming or bearing required to get the proper back lash back on the gears
less work and cheaper then a spool and if you bust the carrier oh well then get the spool or whatever you can get at the time.
question he asked was what's the advantage in using a spool rather than weld the spider gears, not what's cheaper. i answered his question, not suggested to do one or the other so if you know a different reason for which a spool is better than welding the diff please let us know
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Spool is substantially stronger than "Most" welded spiders, the exception being if you
tig them carefully to the carrier and to each other as opposed to a 7018 "Lincoln Locker"
Balance can be an issue with a welded spider set as well.
Another thing to think about is that with a spool if you overcook it significantly into a
corner, a spool induces a lot of under-steer, making it harder to save if you screw up.
Just a thought...
Dave
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if your going to buy a spool why not just weld the spiders??
question he asked was what's the advantage in using a spool rather than weld the spider gears, not what's cheaper. i answered his question, not suggested to do one or the other so if you know a different reason for which a spool is better than welding the diff please let us know
nevermind, in got mixed up - I thought he asked why not weld the spider gears - was you (Torch_Ind) that asked that (didn't notice the rhetorical intent in your post, i thought it was a actual question) - got my bearings crossed so disregard my post above
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question he asked was what's the advantage in using a spool rather than weld the spider gears, not what's cheaper. i answered his question, not suggested to do one or the other so if you know a different reason for which a spool is better than welding the diff please let us know
nevermind, in got mixed up - I thought he asked why not weld the spider gears - was you (Torch_Ind) that asked that (didn't notice the rhetorical intent in your post, i thought it was a actual question) - got my bearings crossed so disregard my post above
np was about to ditch this thread soon anyways.
I don't like spools for dd driving. I run the lunchbox locker cause it was less bank to pay and I'm not to thrilled with it for dd driving. off-road is great!! so to weld or spool the rear end would be worse then what I have.
my dad had welded rear en in his old cj-7 with 304amc engine and he would go through a set of rear tires every summer cause it would squeak the tires like you were hot rodding it through lights and corners.
Last post for you all on my opinion and that's all it is. if you plan to daily drive it at all even if you drive it a ways just to get to the trails and can afford to get a selectable locker just get the selectable locker from the start.
if it a money issue cause the spool is cheep well your just doing what you have to do because it's cheep. I couldn't afford the selectable locker and a lockright lunchbox was available for my diff so I went with that cause I could afford it and needed spiders anyway cause they were ready to blow!!
wish I had enough $$$ for a OX locker that would have been my choice if money was no issue.
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np was about to ditch this thread soon anyways.
I don't like spools for dd driving. I run the lunchbox locker cause it was less bank to pay and I'm not to thrilled with it for dd driving. off-road is great!! so to weld or spool the rear end would be worse then what I have.
my dad had welded rear en in his old cj-7 with 304amc engine and he would go through a set of rear tires every summer cause it would squeak the tires like you were hot rodding it through lights and corners.
Last post for you all on my opinion and that's all it is. if you plan to daily drive it at all even if you drive it a ways just to get to the trails and can afford to get a selectable locker just get the selectable locker from the start.
if it a money issue cause the spool is cheep well your just doing what you have to do because it's cheep. I couldn't afford the selectable locker and a lockright lunchbox was available for my diff so I went with that cause I could afford it and needed spiders anyway cause they were ready to blow!!
wish I had enough $$$ for a OX locker that would have been my choice if money was no issue.
I'm not looking at it as a cheap/fixed solution to lock the rear, but for the time being I figured it might be worthwhile because of the price. I've heard mixed reviews about spools on the street even before this thread, and from what I know there's no Aussie/Lockright for the 9". Nor is there an OX... So that limits me to the Detroit or ARB. And until I have the funds for either, I figured I'd at least look into a spool as a cheap/temporary way to get more traction.
So hence, why I posted this thread- to get opinions on why or why not to get one :wave:
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so arb is my recommendation unless your short on funds
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Something else to consider, a 9" has about triple the parasitic drag of a Dana Axle.
While they are light and strong there is no free lunch, there are more and more
guys drag racing with hybrid rear axles, using Dana internals.
Dave