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General Forums => The Mess Hall => Topic started by: stan98tj on December 30, 2009, 09:23:23 PM
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Ok i keep reading posts about the benefits of regearing, many of you have done so with your own rigs. in a few months i plan on upgrading to 32s id like to get some opinions on which gear settings to set for my TJ. i have a 98 auto. drivetrain is still stock. it's now and will continue to be my daily driver. im not well versed in this aspect AT ALL so feel free to explain. id like to still be able to hit 65-70 on the highway without pushing the engine too much, basically staying comfortable at speed and not to lose too much off the line (she's slow enough ) and of course im looking for benefits when off the beaten path.
thanks
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This is the easiest way to show you what gearing will do.
http://www.jeeptech.com/javaAps/gta.html
Input your info and it will spit out a chart that will show you your MPH at what RPM.
1 2.74:1
2 1.54:1
3 1.00:1
R 2.20:1
Transfer Case 2.72:1
Stock Axle 3.73:1
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This is the easiest way to show you what gearing will do.
http://www.jeeptech.com/javaAps/gta.html
Input your info and it will spit out a chart that will show you your MPH at what RPM.
1 2.74:1
2 1.54:1
3 1.00:1
R 2.20:1
Transfer Case 2.72:1
Stock Axle 3.73:1
if i enter your info provided (leaving 4th-5th blank or zeros) it suggests a 3.73:1 ring and pinion. chart seems to get to 70 or above in third so thats good. but what i dont know is actually how this gearing will ride..is it slow? is it better on the trail-use the torque available efficiently? i read the info about the table where he mentions the need to get back to or close to OEM when running larger tires...if the table calculates that then it would be safe to say that 3.73:1 s an aftermarket gear setting that will get me closest to stock for running larger tires...anyone know if this is a good setting?
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i read your regearing thread jeffy...4:56 is the optimal gearing for 32 on an auto according to that thread...
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if i enter your info provided (leaving 4th-5th blank or zeros) it suggests a 3.73:1 ring and pinion. chart seems to get to 70 or above in third so thats good. but what i dont know is actually how this gearing will ride..is it slow? is it better on the trail-use the torque available efficiently? i read the info about the table where he mentions the need to get back to or close to OEM when running larger tires...if the table calculates that then it would be safe to say that 3.73:1 s an aftermarket gear setting that will get me closest to stock for running larger tires...anyone know if this is a good setting?
The gearing chart would give you the ratio for if everything stayed the same except for tires and gearing. This does not account for any additional weight you may have added as well as aerodynamics. Generally speaking it's good to go one gear set lower then you need to to account for weight and some aerodynamics.
With that said I think 4.56's and 32's will be fine. Although you could probably go to 4.88's and 33's as well. Just double check the RPM's and if you know your own powerband then you can get a good estimate of how it will feel. On takeoffs you will feel lower then whatever gears you get since there is torque multiplication from the torque converter. I think it's about 2:1 until the TC gets up to speed. Since you don't have a OD, you will be stuck in 1:1 or what would be 4th on a manual. Set you RPM and cruise speed and choose the appropriate gears.
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The gearing chart would give you the ratio for if everything stayed the same except for tires and gearing. This does not account for any additional weight you may have added as well as aerodynamics. Generally speaking it's good to go one gear set lower then you need to to account for weight and some aerodynamics.
With that said I think 4.56's and 32's will be fine. Although you could probably go to 4.88's and 33's as well. Just double check the RPM's and if you know your own powerband then you can get a good estimate of how it will feel. On takeoffs you will feel lower then whatever gears you get since there is torque multiplication from the torque converter. I think it's about 2:1 until the TC gets up to speed. Since you don't have a OD, you will be stuck in 1:1 or what would be 4th on a manual. Set you RPM and cruise speed and choose the appropriate gears.
thanks jeffy.
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one more thing..4.56 will turn 32s well enough, but w/o undue strain on the engine correct? by this i mean, the engine would handle it better then if i added the 32s and didnt regear. my end goal would be to accomodate for larger tires and have the engine feel as though there werent any of the added weight, thereby not consuming more or straining more...if of course, this is at all possible.
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one more thing..4.56 will turn 32s well enough, but w/o undue strain on the engine correct? by this i mean, the engine would handle it better then if i added the 32s and didnt regear. my end goal would be to accomodate for larger tires and have the engine feel as though there werent any of the added weight, thereby not consuming more or straining more...if of course, this is at all possible.
I'm not sure if i got the question right but if you're asking if the larger tires will reduce the wear on the engine b/c the rpm will be lower then it is somewhat untrue - it will have less rpm at cruise on the hwy given that you stay around 60mph, otherwise you'll need to downshift in 4th. Also, the less resulting torque at the periphery of the tire will require that you open the throttle more, so that would result in more strain on the engine, so not really a gain there and same for mpg (again, this is in case i got your question right).
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I'm not sure if i got the question right but if you're asking if the larger tires will reduce the wear on the engine b/c the rpm will be lower then it is somewhat untrue - it will have less rpm at cruise on the hwy given that you stay around 60mph, otherwise you'll need to downshift in 4th. Also, the less resulting torque at the periphery of the tire will require that you open the throttle more, so that would result in more strain on the engine, so not really a gain there and same for mpg (again, this is in case i got your question right).
i was asking if i regear to 4.56 if it will reduce the strain on the engine with the added 32s as opposed to not regearing and puttin on the 32s. if i upgrade, im looking for the best possible gearing that overall doesnt put a strain on the engine..so i dont consume more etc.
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Stan the question is a good one and the answer is different for everybody.
My advice would be since it's a 3 speed auto, just put the tires on first, see how it drives and if you feel the engine lugs then consider regearing, if you have 4.10's to begin with you might be happy just the way it is. 32's aren't terribly big tires, I personally would try it with the stock gearing first, since a 3 speed auto does not have an overdrive it might be ok, if not you can still regear
By the way Happy newyear, good health a job and lots of Jeeping to all
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My 94 has 32's and 4.56 gears. I dropped from 33's and am much happier.
I also gained back 5mpg by going from the 33z12 tires to 32x9 tires.
Dave
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Stan the question is a good one and the answer is different for everybody.
My advice would be since it's a 3 speed auto, just put the tires on first, see how it drives and if you feel the engine lugs then consider regearing, if you have 4.10's to begin with you might be happy just the way it is. 32's aren't terribly big tires, I personally would try it with the stock gearing first, since a 3 speed auto does not have an overdrive it might be ok, if not you can still regear
By the way Happy newyear, good health a job and lots of Jeeping to all
His auto has 3.73:1 gears not 4.10/4.11's. It will feel really underpowered. At minimum, I'd swap axles with a manual 2.5L YJ to get 4.10/4.11's. For 32's it should be OK-ish. I drove for 5 years with stock 4.10/4.11's and 32x11.5R15's. I think it was better then my 4.56's and 35's. :lol:
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You got to remember he has no overdrive at all. I had 31's and 4.56 gears and hated it. stayed like that for 2 days and stuck 33's on it. Was revving to high for my taste and it hurt gas milage. There is no harm in trying to run what he has and go from there.
It's kinda a pain that you cannot get 4.30 gears those would be about ideal for his setup. With an overdrive transmission 4.56 and 32" tires isn't to bad still a bit short in the gearing, liked those gears better with 35's
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i went from stock 410s on 27inch tires to 410 on 35s and it was a turd so i put 488s in my 8.8 and dana 30 and i wish i had some a little deeper 513s maybe but here in west virginia its all mountains and hills regearing helps alot my jeep is a 2.5 five speed 97 tj it is close to stock now with the 35s and 488s
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i went from stock 410s on 27inch tires to 410 on 35s and it was a turd so i put 488s in my 8.8 and dana 30 and i wish i had some a little deeper 513s maybe but here in west virginia its all mountains and hills regearing helps alot my jeep is a 2.5 five speed 97 tj it is close to stock now with the 35s and 488s
I second the 5:13s and also running 4.88's and it made a huge improvement but could always use more right 5:13's!!!!
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i was asking if i regear to 4.56 if it will reduce the strain on the engine with the added 32s as opposed to not regearing and puttin on the 32s. if i upgrade, im looking for the best possible gearing that overall doesnt put a strain on the engine..so i dont consume more etc.
so i got it backwards, but the answer is still relevant - but you have an auto and i didn't think of that when i posted, i was thinking of a manual which is quite different, so to tell you the truth dunno which way would strain the engine less in your case.
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ok, so if not 4.56 due to my 3 spd and lack of overdrive...should i just stick to throwing on 32s and calling it good or is there another gearing option? certainly dont wanna throw on the 32s and bog down..or regear and feel underpowered. would an auto tranny for the 2.5 with an overdrive be a better base to start? my tranny is showin age so i was plannin on either rebuilding or swappin a new one in. id def like to regear and it will prob be on a 3 spd auto...
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I second the 5:13s and also running 4.88's and it made a huge improvement but could always use more right 5:13's!!!!
Stan is running an AUTO not a manual which means his final gearing is 1:1. 5.13's would kill his highway driving.
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Stan, stick the tires on if it feels like it bogs down to much regear. Conneticut is pretty flat and so is Long Island so most likely it will be fine. Other choice is 33" tires and 4,56
That would make a pretty sweet setup for your auto
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Stan, stick the tires on if it feels like it bogs down to much regear. Conneticut is pretty flat and so is Long Island so most likely it will be fine. Other choice is 33" tires and 4,56
That would make a pretty sweet setup for your auto
wanted to stay with 32s cause the 2.5" lift i have is rated for em..im afraid if i go up to 33s ill bite into the fenders or rub too much-either way it would kill the clearance. where i live isnt all mountainous or anything, but we have a fair amount of hills...mostly long gradual rises, and a few steep hills scattered about (i currently live on one.) SO if i go up to 32s and it DOES bog down, then my regear option would be to go to 4.56?? or i could skip the guess work throw on 33s and go with 4.56s-that set up is rated for something like a 33? In that case maybe a bodylift would take care of the clearance issue....
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Yup 1" body lift and maybe a little longer bump stops in the front will take care of the clearance
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ok this def has me flip floppin...why did u have to bring up 33s art? lol.
anyway i def want to see my entire options though.
i have a 3spd auto. i want 32s. its a daily driver and sees a good amount of highway driving. terrain around me gets hilly in spots-some are steep. my wheeling terrain is def hilly with loose ground, im gonna need as much torque as possible...what are my options??
last thing...tranny is old so i was considering replacing it with prob another 3spd auto...BUT in 03 or 04 they added an overdrive to the auto trany...maybe i can swap one of those in...will that provide me with better regearing options?
if there are no options for 32s...i guess ill bite the bullet for 33s
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On your trans figure out how to properly adjust the bands and the kickdown. Makes a world of difference. The older Chrysler transmissions are pretty tough.
With an auto wheeling should be pretty easy in low range the torque converter help low en torque in low range a lot. Should wheel just fine with 33's and 4.56 gears I think that would make a pretty nice setup for you
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On your trans figure out how to properly adjust the bands and the kickdown. Makes a world of difference. The older Chrysler transmissions are pretty tough.
With an auto wheeling should be pretty easy in low range the torque converter help low en torque in low range a lot. Should wheel just fine with 33's and 4.56 gears I think that would make a pretty nice setup for you
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i take it you dont see 32s as an option for me art? i could always upgrade to a rough country 3.25" or 3.75" lift for less than 400 bucks....still wanna see if anyone else thinks 32s may still be an option before i make a decision.
How slow would i be and how bad would i suck gas down if i go to 33s and 4.56?
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ok this def has me flip floppin...why did u have to bring up 33s art? lol.
anyway i def want to see my entire options though.
i have a 3spd auto. i want 32s. its a daily driver and sees a good amount of highway driving. terrain around me gets hilly in spots-some are steep. my wheeling terrain is def hilly with loose ground, im gonna need as much torque as possible...what are my options??
last thing...tranny is old so i was considering replacing it with prob another 3spd auto...BUT in 03 or 04 they added an overdrive to the auto trany...maybe i can swap one of those in...will that provide me with better regearing options?
if there are no options for 32s...i guess ill bite the bullet for 33s
The 30RH is a really tough transmission. Actually both the 32RH and the 30RH are stronger then their manual counterparts. I don't think there has been any complaints from the auto's other then not having OD. Problem is you won't be able to swap a 4-speed in since they were only offered on the 2.4L. Different bolt patterns and all that.
32 v 33's. Like I said before, I'd go with 33's. If you're worried about mileage and such go with the lighter 33x10.5R15's or 33x9.5R15's. They not only have less weight but less wind resistance as well as less rolling resistance. If you had to use someone else spare, you could use a 33x12.5R15 in a pinch. As for clearance, I agree a body lift or better yet extending the bump stops will fix that.
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so 33s it is...and 4.56 gears will be the essential set up i take it? id like to make sure the hills are a nonissue. also..what about the axles, they will handle 33s just fine? if i lock the front and have the 33s...shouldnt be an issue? if im gonna do 33s i think i may upgrade the rough country lift from a 2.5" to a 3.25"
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so 33s it is...and 4.56 gears will be the essential set up i take it? id like to make sure the hills are a nonissue. also..what about the axles, they will handle 33s just fine? if i lock the front and have the 33s...shouldnt be an issue? if im gonna do 33s i think i may upgrade the rough country lift from a 2.5" to a 3.25"
4.88 with 33s is like stock from what i know (or at least for my YJ)
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4.88 with 33s is like stock from what i know (or at least for my YJ)
Again, Stan has an Automatic so he can't go too deep.
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so 33s it is...and 4.56 gears will be the essential set up i take it? id like to make sure the hills are a nonissue. also..what about the axles, they will handle 33s just fine? if i lock the front and have the 33s...shouldnt be an issue? if im gonna do 33s i think i may upgrade the rough country lift from a 2.5" to a 3.25"
Personally, I'd go with as little lift as I can. Having less up travel isn't a big deal as most of your travel will be down anyway.
With 33's is mixed. A locker in the front shouldn't be a big deal. A locker in the back can be trouble but again the D35 is really hit & miss. Some are find while others break at a drop of a hat. If there is no locker then it shouldn't be a problem.
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Personally, I'd go with as little lift as I can. Having less up travel isn't a big deal as most of your travel will be down anyway.
With 33's is mixed. A locker in the front shouldn't be a big deal. A locker in the back can be trouble but again the D35 is really hit & miss. Some are find while others break at a drop of a hat. If there is no locker then it shouldn't be a problem.
im only goin to lock the front. the fear i had with 33s is that my lift is made for up to 32s..i personally dont like the look of really stuffed up tires..i like a bit of room..not too much though. what i want to avoid is having the tire stuff up and rub the fender flare. happens to my buddy's jeep all the time and actually stops his forward momentum a lot of times if hes going slow enough (he has 33s.) i checked the rough country site and found that the 3.25-3.75" lifts actually start off as a 2.5" (which is what i have) and just add a spacer, sway bar discos and a few other things. so ill just order the body lift to get that clearance. i want to avoid the tire stuffing up and catching the flare when flexing....and i do not want to trim the flares.
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by the way..thank you to all who have responded to this thread. really helped me set my mind on what im going to do next. Im going to go with Art's advice on the tranny bands..ill get em reset and see if that gets the tranny good and running.....just to recap, we're all pretty much agreed that 4.56s and 33s are the best bet for my 3spd auto...that would def be better than leavin the 33s on the stock gearing taking into consideration torque and efficiency/consumption?
if so, 33s, 4.56s, a little lift so they fit nice and tranny bands to get her shiftin nice. ill keep you all posted. im hopin to get this done after i ship out and get my first real paycheck...or maybe sooner if i can catch some shifts standing watch as a mate while im waiting on a ship
-stan
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im only goin to lock the front. the fear i had with 33s is that my lift is made for up to 32s..i personally dont like the look of really stuffed up tires..i like a bit of room..not too much though. what i want to avoid is having the tire stuff up and rub the fender flare. happens to my buddy's jeep all the time and actually stops his forward momentum a lot of times if hes going slow enough (he has 33s.) i checked the rough country site and found that the 3.25-3.75" lifts actually start off as a 2.5" (which is what i have) and just add a spacer, sway bar discos and a few other things. so ill just order the body lift to get that clearance. i want to avoid the tire stuffing up and catching the flare when flexing....and i do not want to trim the flares.
Well, you can always add coil spacers if you want. The tire to flare contact is usually from when the owner adds wheels with too much BS. Too much BS moves the tire too far out and when you flex, the tire then rubs and then proceeds to eat the flare.
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Well, you can always add coil spacers if you want. The tire to flare contact is usually from when the owner adds wheels with too much BS. Too much BS moves the tire too far out and when you flex, the tire then rubs and then proceeds to eat the flare.
but w/o bs u run into frame contact when turning-something that i experienced with the 31s until i spaced em out. ill have to see about the spacing for the 33s given my current set up.
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but w/o bs u run into frame contact when turning-something that i experienced with the 31s until i spaced em out. ill have to see about the spacing for the 33s given my current set up.
Then you turn the steering stops out so the tires aren't turning into the frame.
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Or get some cheapo wider flares so the tires tuck under them at full flex, keeps some of the mud of the sides also
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4.88 with 33s is like stock from what i know (or at least for my YJ)
Again, Stan has an Automatic so he can't go too deep.
:brick: i did it again, i keep thinking manual transmission :lol:
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I have a 97 TJ 4 cyl. auto and I put 33x10.5x15s on it last summer, I have been thinking of regearing to 4.56 but overall the Jeep doesn't do too bad with the stock 3.73s. Most of my driving is on high ways and once it gets up to speed it seems to run just fine, it just takes a while to get up to speed. As far as rubbing, bumpstops are the key IMO years ago the trend was "lift it high", now days though people have figured out that a low COG is key, just extend your bumpstops so your tires can't rub limiting your up travel. Last week I put a 1.75" spacer lift on a 99 TJ, the guys showed up on stock suspension with 33x12.5x15s he said they didn't rub, but then again he hadn't wheeled it either.
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ill prob space em out a hair..i like the look of em pokin a bit from under the flares. then ill limit the up travel if it stuffs too much in the flare. Jeffy, you mentioned gettin a lighter 33...would the 33x10.5R15's or 33x9.5R15's still be good candidates for the 4.56 regear?
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I was running 33x13.5 tires with 4.88's which was perfect. I am now running 35x12.5 and the 4.88's are still keeping me in the game.
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Skinnier tires are easier to get rolling but the diameter is the same so the same gearing as the wider tires is good. It might accelerate a bit better and improve milahge a hair other than that not a lot of difference
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im sold. 33x10.5 and 4.56s...now ill have to hunt around to find a nice tire that has an agressive enough stance but not too much like a swamper. i like the dakota MTs i have now. id be looking for a nice tread pattern that cleans out the snow and mud.
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by the way..can anyone give me a rough idea what the 4.56s will "feel" like driving wise? how will it be off the line and time to get up to speed on the highway...how about offroad?
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Do the KM2's I was with a guy yesterday wheeling and he was running 33/10.5 KM2's I'll post PICS on Monday.
The "feel" should be a bit more pep that stock, and offroading it will be easier to control your speed.
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Skinnier tires are easier to get rolling but the diameter is the same so the same gearing as the wider tires is good. It might accelerate a bit better and improve milahge a hair other than that not a lot of difference
When I went from 33" AT to 33" MT and changed nothing else I lost MPG,, and in head
winds it was brutal, The big lugs sticking out in the air stream are like paddles stirring the air.
My dad noticed the same thing on his 2500 Dodge Diesel. Did not hurt him as bad... ;)
Dave
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The bigger the tire the more the rolling resistance is an issue, believe it or not My Jeep had the worst milage on cooper stt's 33x12.5 14mpg then I went to 32x11.50 mtr 16 mpg then to 35x12.50 Baja mtz's 17-18 mpg all with the exact same gearing and lift and same driving style and the MTZ's are a hair over 13" wide so go figure The stick out nore than any other tire I had on the Jeep so it's more rolling resistance than anything else and serious mud tires have terrible rilling resistance because of the big lugs
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The bigger the tire the more the rolling resistance is an issue, believe it or not My Jeep had the worst milage on cooper stt's 33x12.5 14mpg then I went to 32x11.50 mtr 16 mpg then to 35x12.50 Baja mtz's 17-18 mpg all with the exact same gearing and lift and same driving style and the MTZ's are a hair over 13" wide so go figure The stick out nore than any other tire I had on the Jeep so it's more rolling resistance than anything else and serious mud tires have terrible rilling resistance because of the big lugs
i think i just figured out what my next set of tires will be :thumb:
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by the way..can anyone give me a rough idea what the 4.56s will "feel" like driving wise? how will it be off the line and time to get up to speed on the highway...how about offroad?
Here is a 33/10.50 KM2 on a YJ. Not sure of the backspace on the wheel. They are a MT wheel. I would guess about 4 inch.
(http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c331/FourbangerYJ/RRC1-2-10018.jpg)
(http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c331/FourbangerYJ/RRC1-2-10019.jpg)
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i checked out some on jeepforum..they seemed a bit wider and claimed to be 33x10.5 these seem to be a bit narrower then what i expected. some of the33x9.5s on jeepforum looked like that. u sure those are 10.5s?
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i checked out some on jeepforum..they seemed a bit wider and claimed to be 33x10.5 these seem to be a bit narrower then what i expected. some of the33x9.5s on jeepforum looked like that. u sure those are 10.5s?
Yep, I didn't get a PIC of the sidewall but they were the 10.5 on the 9.5.
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i guess it depends on the tread pattern and if you have em spaced out or not. i went back to jeepforum for a quick look at 33x10.5s they look good with a nice tread pattern and look good if they're spaced out a bit. ill space em out like my 31s are now..maybe hang .5" outside the fender. i find when they are directly under the fender they look too skinny and narrow.
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Nice!! I wish I had gone with 10.5's I feel the 12.5's a little to wide.
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Here is a 33/10.50 KM2 on a YJ. Not sure of the backspace on the wheel. They are a MT wheel. I would guess about 4 inch.
(http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c331/FourbangerYJ/RRC1-2-10019.jpg)
That has to be at least 3.75". Should have stayed with something around 4.5". AEV uses 4.75" which is close but looks nice.
BTW: those definitely look like 10.5's. You have to ignore the sidewall tread and just look at the contact patch area. Also, the width measurement does not include tire bulge.
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That has to be at least 3.75". Should have stayed with something around 4.5". AEV uses 4.75" which is close but looks nice.
BTW: those definitely look like 10.5's. You have to ignore the sidewall tread and just look at the contact patch area. Also, the width measurement does not include tire bulge.
4.75 to push the wheel out more? if so then these would look pretty good. most of the 33x10.5 ive seen are tucked directly under or inward of the flares. with a lift and a skinnier tire like that, id tend to think that may make it unstable. i like a nice squatted look so i would push em out to get at least half an inch out from under the flare.
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I have a 97 TJ 4 cyl. auto and I put 33x10.5x15s on it last summer, I have been thinking of regearing to 4.56 but overall the Jeep doesn't do too bad with the stock 3.73s. Most of my driving is on high ways and once it gets up to speed it seems to run just fine, it just takes a while to get up to speed. As far as rubbing, bumpstops are the key IMO years ago the trend was "lift it high", now days though people have figured out that a low COG is key, just extend your bumpstops so your tires can't rub limiting your up travel. Last week I put a 1.75" spacer lift on a 99 TJ, the guys showed up on stock suspension with 33x12.5x15s he said they didn't rub, but then again he hadn't wheeled it either.
do you have pictures-especially directly in front and behind-of your jeep on the 33x10.5s? id like to get a good idea of how skinny they are going to look. if i settle on these ill prob space em out to get at least half an inch out from under the flares.
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4.75 to push the wheel out more? if so then these would look pretty good. most of the 33x10.5 ive seen are tucked directly under or inward of the flares. with a lift and a skinnier tire like that, id tend to think that may make it unstable. i like a nice squatted look so i would push em out to get at least half an inch out from under the flare.
No, to bring the wheel in. I'd rather have stock flares and the tires sit under them. I'm not a fan of wide flares.
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No, to bring the wheel in. I'd rather have stock flares and the tires sit under them. I'm not a fan of wide flares.
i dont like wider flares either. i use the stock flares as a guidline of sorts and i prefer to push the tires out from under them at least half an inch. i feel it gives it a wider stance and looks a bit better with a nice squat like that.
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Most stock wheels are around 5.5" BS and adding -1" makes them just stick out. I would go with no less then 4.25" and 4.5" is probably the best compromise.
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(http://img707.imageshack.us/img707/2986/jeep2.th.png) (http://img707.imageshack.us/i/jeep2.png/)(http://img101.imageshack.us/img101/3782/jeepw.th.png) (http://img101.imageshack.us/i/jeepw.png/)
I will try to get a pic from directly behind the tire today, those are 33x10.5 on an 8 inch rim with 4 inches of back spacing.
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i dont like wider flares either. i use the stock flares as a guidline of sorts and i prefer to push the tires out from under them at least half an inch. i feel it gives it a wider stance and looks a bit better with a nice squat like that.
I dont mind my wider flares. I think they look very well, and cover just right my 33X12.50.
(http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f138/jfrabat/Jeep/DSC00324.jpg)
(http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f138/jfrabat/Jeep/DSC00323.jpg)
(http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f138/jfrabat/Jeep/DSC00322.jpg)
But I guess it's just a matter of taste...
Felipe
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(http://img138.imageshack.us/img138/6294/jeep3.th.png) (http://img138.imageshack.us/i/jeep3.png/)(http://img94.imageshack.us/img94/371/jeep4.th.png) (http://img94.imageshack.us/i/jeep4.png/)
(http://img12.imageshack.us/img12/2929/jeep5.th.png) (http://img12.imageshack.us/i/jeep5.png/)
Here are a few better pics to show you how mine look in relation to the flare. Honestly I always liked the look of 33x12.5s but I bought 33x10.5s because I wanted to help my little 4 popper out as much as I could. Now that I have been running them for a while they have grown on me and I like the look now. I run 34x10.5 Swampers on my xj trail rig but it's a beater and I don't really care about how that one looks.
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(http://img138.imageshack.us/img138/6294/jeep3.th.png) (http://img138.imageshack.us/i/jeep3.png/)(http://img94.imageshack.us/img94/371/jeep4.th.png) (http://img94.imageshack.us/i/jeep4.png/)
(http://img12.imageshack.us/img12/2929/jeep5.th.png) (http://img12.imageshack.us/i/jeep5.png/)
Here are a few better pics to show you how mine look in relation to the flare. Honestly I always liked the look of 33x12.5s but I bought 33x10.5s because I wanted to help my little 4 popper out as much as I could. Now that I have been running them for a while they have grown on me and I like the look now. I run 34x10.5 Swampers on my xj trail rig but it's a beater and I don't really care about how that one looks.
nice. seems like it has a nice square stance..not too tall and narrow. if i go with 10.5s i may push em out just a hair..but urs looks good. they dont seem too tucked in either. thanks for the pics man.
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Okay I thought I had this gearing thing figured out. I have a 98 TJ standard transmission with a 4" lift and 33x12.5 in toyo mt tires. We use it mostly for hunting and playing around with a little to and from work in the winter but no serious off roading yet. I live in mountainous BC and it is brutal driving up hills. From my reading (before I found this site) it seemed like the best bet for me was going from stock 4.10 to 4.56, however after reading here i am thinking maybe 4.88 is the way to do. I have 4.0 throttle body and spacer on the way to go with new intake but the rest of the engine is stock. I'm hoping to get 5th gear back and maybe some mpg. Should I stick with original idea of 4.56 or go up to 4.88. Also I have Dana 30 front and Dana 35 rears right? Thanks for the help
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Okay I thought I had this gearing thing figured out. I have a 98 TJ standard transmission with a 4" lift and 33x12.5 in toyo mt tires. We use it mostly for hunting and playing around with a little to and from work in the winter but no serious off roading yet. I live in mountainous BC and it is brutal driving up hills. From my reading (before I found this site) it seemed like the best bet for me was going from stock 4.10 to 4.56, however after reading here i am thinking maybe 4.88 is the way to do. I have 4.0 throttle body and spacer on the way to go with new intake but the rest of the engine is stock. I'm hoping to get 5th gear back and maybe some mpg. Should I stick with original idea of 4.56 or go up to 4.88. Also I have Dana 30 front and Dana 35 rears right? Thanks for the help
if your 4banger stock you will already have 4.11's
go strait to 4.88's you will even want bigger but requires axle changes to get any bigger gear then that!! if you do a lot of hills you won't regret it!!!!
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What ^^^ said, do the 4.88's. Welcome to the board :beers:
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What ^^^ said, do the 4.88's. Welcome to the board :beers:
recently ive begun leaning towards 4.56. given my 3spd auto-no overdrive etc, some of the 4x4 shops i checked with recomended 4.56. ill have to really look this over right before i lay the $$ to do it.
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recently ive begun leaning towards 4.56. given my 3spd auto-no overdrive etc, some of the 4x4 shops i checked with recomended 4.56. ill have to really look this over right before i lay the $$ to do it.
From what I understand 4.56's with the 3 speed auto is a good choice.
With Buckmaster, he has the 5 speed stick and 33's so the 4.88's are the right choice for him.
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With a stick, I would go to 5.13 if I could (I currently run 33's and 4.88, but before, I ran 31's and 4.88 and it was SWEET! I wish I could get that back without having to drop in 2 new axles!).
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From what I understand 4.56's with the 3 speed auto is a good choice.
With Buckmaster, he has the 5 speed stick and 33's so the 4.88's are the right choice for him.
Going with 4.88 will only raise your RPM's by 200 over stock tires and stock gearing, and it's best to go slightly lower on gearing when dropping that kind of coin. It also helps compensate for the large increase in rotating mass, as regearing to 4.56 would only help compensate for the increased tire diameter. You will be able to get the heavier tires moving much easier with 4.88 gears.
For 33" tires beneath a 4banger, you should regear to 4.88 if an auto and (ideally) 5.13 if a 5spd. Unfortunately 4.88 is as deep as the stock axles allow.
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I have 33x12.50 ATs, 62mm tb, cai, flowmaster exhaust, 2.5l 5 spd. with 4.56 gears. I wish I had 4.88's, and that's here in the desert where it is pretty flat. If you drive any hills at all, go 4.88. 4.56 with the 3 spd. auto would be perfect.
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Going with 4.88 will only raise your RPM's by 200 over stock tires and stock gearing, and it's best to go slightly lower on gearing when dropping that kind of coin. It also helps compensate for the large increase in rotating mass, as regearing to 4.56 would only help compensate for the increased tire diameter. You will be able to get the heavier tires moving much easier with 4.88 gears.
For 33" tires beneath a 4banger, you should regear to 4.88 if an auto and (ideally) 5.13 if a 5spd. Unfortunately 4.88 is as deep as the stock axles allow.
well now i thought i had it figured out and now ya put me right back at square 1. given that i dont know much (about gearing) and i can only go by ideas given to me by others with more experience im really gonna have to consider all options. this really has to be perfect. Im planning on going with 33x10.5s..they will be lighter then the 12.5s. Im not sure if that would factor in much. I DONT want to end up with a jeep that is sucking down more gas then what it already does, I DONT want a jeep that cant go over 60mph and if it does its screaming at over 3k..and i DONT want it to be slower then it already is. Many of the charts i looked at suggested somewhere in the 4.20 range-so i figured 4.56 would work cause it was closer then 4.88. the question remains i guess: 4.56 or 4.88 for my 3spd auto????
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Take a looky at this chart. Compare 3.73 gears and 27" tires, you get 3017 RPM. Slide on down to 33" tires and run across horizontally until you find a similar RPM. 4.56 gears had you at 4.56 gears. IMO, and many will tell you the same, you need to go a smidgin deeper in gears than what puts you back at stock RPM, in order to account for the added mass of the larger tires AND to make the time and expense more worthwhile. 4.88 gears is ONLY 212 RPM higher than with 4.56, something you can definitely live with on the highway. I'd be willing to bet your mileage would be better with 4.88 as the engine won't be lugging as much off the line and at speed. The 4banger likes the revs.
(http://www.quadratec.com/Assets/Knowledgebase/Image/gearchart%281%29.jpg)
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Take a looky at this chart. Compare 3.73 gears and 27" tires, you get 3017 RPM. Slide on down to 33" tires and run across horizontally until you find a similar RPM. 4.56 gears had you at 4.56 gears. IMO, and many will tell you the same, you need to go a smidgin deeper in gears than what puts you back at stock RPM, in order to account for the added mass of the larger tires AND to make the time and expense more worthwhile. 4.88 gears is ONLY 212 RPM higher than with 4.56, something you can definitely live with on the highway. I'd be willing to bet your mileage would be better with 4.88 as the engine won't be lugging as much off the line and at speed. The 4banger likes the revs.
(http://www.quadratec.com/Assets/Knowledgebase/Image/gearchart%281%29.jpg)
so that means with 4.88s ill be screamin at 3200rpms at 65mph. boy thats gonna be loud lol. by the way, why did you choose 27" tires. arent 29" the stock size? perhaps i should pose the question as follows...this is still going to be my daily driver which will include highway driving will the 4.88s be too much?
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Keep in mind these charts are set up for 1:1 ratio (as all vehicles have 1:1) and does not account for OD which is a 'cruising gear'.
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Keep in mind these charts are set up for 1:1 ratio (as all vehicles have 1:1) and does not account for OD which is a 'cruising gear'.
but i dont have an OD. honestly the problem im running into is most ppl have a 5spd and the option is 4.88s for 33s. i searched online and found a few 2.5 autos with 4.88s (some were running 35s though) but i dont know if they are daily driving their rigs. It seems like every time i settle on a ratio someone brings up a opinion which has me doubting mine...and i def appreciate all the input. Jeffy, do you think 4.56 would be good for a DD jeep. i wheel whenever i can so id like to get some power out of this upgrade..
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but i dont have an OD. honestly the problem im running into is most ppl have a 5spd and the option is 4.88s for 33s. i searched online and found a few 2.5 autos with 4.88s (some were running 35s though) but i dont know if they are daily driving their rigs. It seems like every time i settle on a ratio someone brings up a opinion which has me doubting mine...and i def appreciate all the input. Jeffy, do you think 4.56 would be good for a DD jeep. i wheel whenever i can so id like to get some power out of this upgrade..
I drove my 5-speed with 31's and 4.88 and I was one happy camper (it was a dd at the time). Should be similar to your auto, 4.88's and 33's...
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but i dont have an OD. honestly the problem im running into is most ppl have a 5spd and the option is 4.88s for 33s. i searched online and found a few 2.5 autos with 4.88s (some were running 35s though) but i dont know if they are daily driving their rigs. It seems like every time i settle on a ratio someone brings up a opinion which has me doubting mine...and i def appreciate all the input. Jeffy, do you think 4.56 would be good for a DD jeep. i wheel whenever i can so id like to get some power out of this upgrade..
Hard to say really. I would run all of the numbers though the gear calculator on www.jeeptech.com at the bottom of the site. You'll get a graph of each gear and an RPM for any given speed for each gear. Then decide for yourself.
Personally, I'd probably gear lower and live with the higher RPM at highway speeds. 4.56's in 1:1 and 35's is still a bit too high for my taste. Although I try to keep under 70MPH and probably around 60-65 MPH most of the time. If I was going to stick with 55-60 MPH then I'd definitely go lower. I still catch myself going over 70 MPH but it's usually since the powerband starts coming back. When I regear I'll probably go with 5.38's or maybe even 5.89's if I stick with 35's and the 5-speed.
If you're not crawling then you can go with high gears. I'd probably go with a minimum of 4.56's with 33's and still consider 4.88's.
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i wouldn't be worried about runnign at 3200rpm on the highway. if you ask me the 2.5l doesn't make power tell 2500-2800 and 3200 gives you some extra ump to overcome some extra resistance of a headwind or hill or whatnot. if i was to regear it would be 4:88..
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You are over-thinking the situation, don't worry about the 5spds having an overdrive, the 5spd's 4th gear is 1:1 just the same as your setup in Drive.
Stock tires are not 29", at the most they're sometimes 28" unless the jeep came with the 30" tire package (and I believe that option was most common with the 4.0L engine). Most 4bangers will be 27" or 28" I believe.
3200 is not screaming for the 2.5L, it's very happy in that range. 3200 is screaming for the 4.0L engine.
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3200 RPM is good enough to pass people still.
Probably 80% of 2.5L started off with 205/75R15's (27") stock or 215/75R15's (28") optional.
If you're worried, run the stock specs through the gear calculator then run your existing setup and then see what 4.88's will give you.
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Going with 4.88 will only raise your RPM's by 200 over stock tires and stock gearing, and it's best to go slightly lower on gearing when dropping that kind of coin. It also helps compensate for the large increase in rotating mass, as regearing to 4.56 would only help compensate for the increased tire diameter. You will be able to get the heavier tires moving much easier with 4.88 gears.
For 33" tires beneath a 4banger, you should regear to 4.88 if an auto and (ideally) 5.13 if a 5spd. Unfortunately 4.88 is as deep as the stock axles allow.
GO 4.88'S I have 33's and want 5.13 or bigger but have to find axles first with my 5speed stick!!
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For those with YJ's looking for deep gears, the Waggy D44 front and Isuzu D44 rear are a pretty simple install. Love my 5.38 gears.
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For those with YJ's looking for deep gears, the Waggy D44 front and Isuzu D44 rear are a pretty simple install. Love my 5.38 gears.
good to know I have been trying to find a d44 front bronco axle and a rear d44 out of a Cherokee with tow package locally
Are they wide axles or narrowed like the yj?
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ford bronco d44 in our garage is about 59.5" drum to drum (wheel mounting surface)
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The Waggy and 'Zu Dana44's are approximately the same width as the stock YJ axles, they're both 6lug and discs at all 4 corners.
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ford bronco d44 in our garage is about 59.5" drum to drum (wheel mounting surface)
Early Bronco axles used to be a common swap. They are 31 spline small bearing 9's though. The D44 is more centered and can be a problem if you don't have enough lift or an auto. The brackets on the housing are also a PITA to remove as well.
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ya we have the accompany 9 inch also...main problem being the willys it was supposed to go into is passenger side drop... :brick: :pot:
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ya we have the accompany 9 inch also...main problem being the willys it was supposed to go into is passenger side drop... :brick: :pot:
I would look for narrow track SJ axles for the Willy's. Pre '84 should be pass side drop front D44. and you can either get an offser rear or a centered one.
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thanks for all the responses guys! this is going to have to take some good thinking. i dont wanna drop the cash and not be happy with the results. By the way, would there be a loss in mpgs for between 4.56 and 4.88s?
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thanks for all the responses guys! this is going to have to take some good thinking. i dont wanna drop the cash and not be happy with the results. By the way, would there be a loss in mpgs for between 4.56 and 4.88s?
200-300RPM increase isn't going to make any difference that you can measure.
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Like I mentioned previously, I think you will see slightly better mileage with the 4.88. It's a myth that lower gears automatically means worse fuel mileage. Quite the contrary can be true, as it all has to do with how efficiently the power can get to the ground. 4.88 for you will keep the 2.5L more in it's power band, accelerating and maintaining speed easier, saving fuel in the long run.
I run 5.38 gears with 35" tires and average about 15mpg. I've been up past 17mpg at times.
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Well I think you guys have me convinced on the 4.88 gears. I was thinking ebay for the gears but what do you guys recommend, I haven't found any packages that have front and rear kits and install kits. I will be installing it myself. Again thanks for the help this is a sweet site!
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Get the install kits from US gear, maybe not the cheapest, but the most complete sets I have seen with a good shim selection. Also the only kit to date that includes the labyrinth seal/ skim for dana 30 High pinion axles. Have gone through a bunch of gear install kits in the last year or so and those top all of them. For gears some claim they are all made by the same manufacturer. For the most part I have had good luck with Yukon gears
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http://completeoffroad.com/ for a great price on gears and install kits.
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I recommend calling around and seeing if they will match each other. Also, make sure the master install kit includes carrier bearings. Some kits have these as optional.
I'd probably stick with Yukon, Superior or Alloy USA.
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Superior just reboxes whatever they have in stock at the tome and marks them up.
When I regeared the back of my Jeep they grabbed me a set of Motive gears, put them in their box and handed them to me. I was just in a hurry or I would have gotten some Yukon gears from groupbuy 4x4, Jason has always treated me right and has pretty good prices on gears
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Superior just reboxes whatever they have in stock at the tome and marks them up.
When I regeared the back of my Jeep they grabbed me a set of Motive gears, put them in their box and handed them to me. I was just in a hurry or I would have gotten some Yukon gears from groupbuy 4x4, Jason has always treated me right and has pretty good prices on gears
Superior Gear & Axle is a part of Foote Axle and Forge who makes the actual gears. They have no association with Motive Gears that I'm aware of.
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anyone at least think that with 4.56 id feel some type of difference over stock auto with 33s?
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anyone at least think that with 4.56 id feel some type of difference over stock auto with 33s?
Personally, I would not waste time with 4.56; I have found from my experience that the charts dont account for everything, and I prefer to gear a bit deep in the 2.5L.
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Personally, I would not waste time with 4.56; I have found from my experience that the charts dont account for everything, and I prefer to gear a bit deep in the 2.5L.
don't forget extra rotating mass
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Like I said Jeffy, I was in their main warehouse here in Rancho Cucamonga to pick up the gears and they reboxed then here I while I waited and watched. Also I have wheeled with one of their main sales guys and he even told me some of their JK gears they buy out of China. You can believe the sales hype or what the I saw and what their main rep told me while hanging out on the trail, take your pick. Their budget axle shafts come out of India also.
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Like I said Jeffy, I was in their main warehouse here in Rancho Cucamonga to pick up the gears and they reboxed then here I while I waited and watched. Also I have wheeled with one of their main sales guys and he even told me some of their JK gears they buy out of China. You can believe the sales hype or what the I saw and what their main rep told me while hanging out on the trail, take your pick. Their budget axle shafts come out of India also.
actually i was told the same thing (that the Alloy USA gears are made in China).
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actually i was told the same thing (that the Alloy USA gears are made in China).
I was told that Ron, who used to work at Superior and who started Alloy USA sold to Motive Gear.
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anyone at least think that with 4.56 id feel some type of difference over stock auto with 33s?
Sure you will feel a difference, you are changing from 3.73 to 4.56 after all. Go ahead and get 4.56, is that what you want to hear?
You will feel a difference with the 4.56. But will you have the performance and mileage as good as you would with 4.88, highly unlikely. The vast majority here are telling you it's more worthwhile, in time AND money, to go with the 4.88. Yet you're stuck on 4.56. Do what you want, get the 4.56 :brick:
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Sure you will feel a difference, you are changing from 3.73 to 4.56 after all. Go ahead and get 4.56, is that what you want to hear?
You will feel a difference with the 4.56. But will you have the performance and mileage as good as you would with 4.88, highly unlikely. The vast majority here are telling you it's more worthwhile, in time AND money, to go with the 4.88. Yet you're stuck on 4.56. Do what you want, get the 4.56 :brick:
Truly i appreciate the input and advice. I just feel like i need to exhaust all points of discussion given my limited knowledge in the matter. i went to 2 off-road shops in florida last month to get some advice on the matter-both told me 2 different gear ratios (4.56 and 4.10). while some would disregard the 4.10 opinion, i took it as just another piece of advice; all of which i will use to come up with my own choice. I didnt think 4.88s were an option for me until recent posts on this thread. Truth be told, i must say 4.88s certainly look like a good choice and what ill prob be going with.
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I was told that Ron, who used to work at Superior and who started Alloy USA sold to Motive Gear.
Alloy USA was purchased by Omix-ADA. They also made the statement that will cover all warranty for products sold prior to the acquisition (read that when i bought my axles) including products that were manufactured and sold after.
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Alloy USA was purchased by Omix-ADA. They also made the statement that will cover all warranty for products sold prior to the acquisition (read that when i bought my axles) including products that were manufactured and sold after.
Ah, that's right...
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by the way, if i go 4.88s will i need to upgrade the axle? i plan on locking the front and leaving the rear stock. I am going to have 33s on there...will the d35 handle this?
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by the way, if i go 4.88s will i need to upgrade the axle? i plan on locking the front and leaving the rear stock. I am going to have 33s on there...will the d35 handle this?
The stock D35 will not handle lockers and 33's very well. With alloys, you reduce the risk somewhat, but, in my case, I am still careful with my right foot when I lock mine up... Many D35 with alloy axles and locker have broken already, so I baby mine.
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The stock D35 will not handle lockers and 33's very well. With alloys, you reduce the risk somewhat, but, in my case, I am still careful with my right foot when I lock mine up... Many D35 with alloy axles and locker have broken already, so I baby mine.
i only plan on locking the front..so i suppose it will still be fine even with 4.88s
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i only plan on locking the front..so i suppose it will still be fine even with 4.88s
The front will take a lot more abuse than the rear. Good planning on leaving the rear open.
With a locked front for me as well as a few others I know the stock shafts( the yokes ) stretched and allowed the U joint cap to spin. Happened to me only 2 or 3 trips after locking the front. Once this happens it's time to replace them. Alloys would be a good choice. Or you can tack weld the caps to the yokes to prevent them from spinning. If allowed to spin they will work themselves out of the yoke then BOOM it's done.