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General Forums => The Mess Hall => Topic started by: Complete Loser on March 19, 2010, 11:24:08 AM
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Just pulled my driveshaft so i could get to the fubar seal that was dangling around the drivshaft yoke. Anyways, in addition to the seal, there is also a bushing looking thing that slide off the tcase shaft.
What do i do with that? Reinstall with the new seal?
Thanks in advance.
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Ok. Ive researched enough to know its a bushing. But i dont know how far to drive the new one in Im assuming the rear seal must seal over some of the bushing?
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I think you lost a snap ring... I thought there was one that held
the sleeve around the rear output shaft? Too long ago ... I'd look
at the exploded diagram on Advanced adapters if they still have it or maybe Quadratec?
Dave
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Well, i ordered this bushing http://www.quadratec.com/products/product_search.php?kw=52201+01+%09&submit=Go
part #52201.01
I have a np231. It says it will work in nv207 awell. :puzzled:
I looked at all kinds of diagrams, didnt see any retaining clips.?
So assuming this is the right part i need, anything fun to look forward to when installing this?
I dont have the super special bushing installing tools.
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It fits completely inside the tailshaft cone and is covered by the seal. I've never seen one come out, and can't imagine how yours came out without damaging the entire tailshaft housing.
I've got a whole bunch of tailhshaft housings here from SYE installs, would be glad to send you one with the used bushing installed, for the cost of shipping.
Check with jeepers in your area, chances are there are some around leftover from SYE installs.
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Thank you bounty, i will take you up on that. invoice me at adambond@ccrtc.com paypal if you would like. ?
You can tell inside my housing, that the bushing has been spun before. ::)
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Thank you bounty, i will take you up on that. invoice me at adambond@ccrtc.com paypal if you would like. ?
You can tell inside my housing, that the bushing has been spun before. ::)
Sounds like someone ran it dry then it spun and honed the seat.
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Yup. Except they didnt hone it. lol Just ran it dry. When i drained the tcase, all i got was about 4oz of water.
(http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e44/327amc/cartoon%20forum/qcsopeme.gif) (http://s36.photobucket.com/albums/e44/327amc/cartoon%20forum/?action=view¤t=qcsopeme.gif)
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Yup. Except they didnt hone it. lol Just ran it dry. When i drained the tcase, all i got was about 4oz of water.
(http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e44/327amc/cartoon%20forum/qcsopeme.gif) (http://s36.photobucket.com/albums/e44/327amc/cartoon%20forum/?action=view¤t=qcsopeme.gif)
hmm, you might have more surprises with the rest of it then - can't imagine being healthy inside if it ran w/o fluid.
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Yup. Except they didnt hone it. lol Just ran it dry. When i drained the tcase, all i got was about 4oz of water.
They didn't hone it, the frozen bearing did. The bearing ran dry them froze to the shaft and that honed the seat. It happens with axle bearings occasionally which is a real PITA.
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I sent you a pay request. You should tear down the entire transfer case and rebuild it, I'm sure the shift pads on the forks are worn at a minimum. Replacement chains are around $70 and also a good idea.
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Thanks. I sent the dough.
I will rebuild this fall. Both my vehicles are down at the moment. So i have to get this sucker moving. :(
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Shipping out to you today via Priority Mail. :dance:
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(http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e44/327amc/cartoon%20forum/carrey.gif)
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Shipping out to you today via Priority Mail. :dance:
very nice of you to do that :clap:
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Well, i had a stroke of good luck for a change. A buddy stopped by and had a tailshaft housing in his truck toolbox. Been there for years. lol
This is where the luck wears off im afraid.
I immediately seen a problem. The mating surface of the tail shaft has a protruding lip that would probably fit inside the tcase a little bit. Yet my bearing is flush. Not recessed inside the tcase. ?
Heres a photo to help. I forgot to rotate the photo.
(http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e44/327amc/jeep/taill.jpg)
The tailhousing that i took off (which is beat pretty bad) i noticed the rednecks ground off the lip, so it would mate up the tcase flush.
Anyone know whats up here? Do i just need to drive this output shaft bearing in deeper?
My Tcase tag says NP231
The housing my buddy dropped off today came off a np207? i think he said.
Whew.... this is fun.
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why not wait for the one Bounty sent over
btw, that bearing needs to be replaced. If i were you i'd look for another t-case (rather than rebuilding this one)
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why not wait for the one Bounty sent over
btw, that bearing needs to be replaced. If i were you i'd look for another t-case (rather than rebuilding this one)
Or do a SYE.
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What is SYE?
Im under the assumption that this is the correct tailshaft for this tcase. Same one as came off of it. And was told interchangable with 207.
So i assume the one Hunter has kindly sent is the same aswell.
But i could be wrong?
Why bearing need replaced?
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SYE= slip yoke eliminator. Figured it out. :thumb:
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surface rust on bearing + balls don't mix well - it will slowly break down the rolling surface.
and that might be the case inside the case as well. I would guess it's noisy already and probably there's quite a bit of play in the bearing - that might be the reason of your bushing and seal coming out and you most likely had vibrations. It will happen again.
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Im pulling the bearing housing now. Just getting ready to look for the online manual how to. I pulled the speedo part so far. Letting fluid drain.
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Ok. I think i can confirm on my own that the 207 rear housing wont work (with out mod) on a 231. The bearing (as seen in the picture) is installed all the way (near as i can tell now that ive pulled the bearing housing).
So, i will be waiting on the housing Bounty shipped.
Getting to look inside, i think i can see whats going on now. As much as i hate to admit it, i think i put the water in the tcase (the few oz's that drained out originally).
When i first got this jeep, i had to pull it into the garage. And, well i had to take a couple laps in the snow first. Going in reverse in 2-3ft deep snow, with a destroyed rear seal would most likely put snow in there. You will notice in this pic, the orange color around where the rear output bearing would be. (http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e44/327amc/jeep/tcaseinerds.jpg)
Thats exactly as Sharpy suggested. Rust. But upon further inspection, the inside looks amazing, the rust trail goes no farther. No rust on anything. There is some decent condensation on the ceiling of the inside of the tcase. What water is condensating in there, is beading up very well. And i cant find any evidence of a long presence of water. So my guess is, i packed the tail shaft with snow, as well the bearing, and parked it. As she sat, she rusted up a bit.
Also, there is or was no milky oil to indicate a thorough mixing of water with the innerds.
I have my heat gun blowing inside the tcase right now to evap the rest of the water condensation, while im taking a break.
I will put about 5 minutes of 4L time on the tcase once i get her rolling, and change the fluid again. And inspect the old fluid.
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inside looks good - i still think you should replace that bearing (wait for the shipping from Bounty, you might get lucky and get the bearing with the housing)
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ya. im gettin ready to order a bearing. what source you usually use for those type parts? quadratec?
I might as well get a snap ring also.
The oil pump looks great also. Do these commonly go bad, or wear out?
This one seems to function ok in hand at least.
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ya. im gettin ready to order a bearing. what source you usually use for those type parts? quadratec?
I might as well get a snap ring also.
The oil pump looks great also. Do these commonly go bad, or wear out?
This one seems to function ok in hand at least.
quadratec is good, morris4x4 also good and i did find http://www.rockauto.com/ to be cheapest on some of the bearings (got my special order bearings for my lockers from them, about 1/2 price compared to 4wd.com).
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Looking at your pic, doesn't look half bad but I don't see the upper plastic pad on the shift fork, where it engages the shift collar. The blue pad looks okay, but there should be a white plastic pad on each tip of that shift fork. Inspect it closely, maybe it's there and I can't see it in the pic.
You can't use 207 parts on a 231, they're not interchangeable. I sent you a 231 tailcone. I did not send a tailhousing that contains the bearing. You can take the old bearing to any autoparts store and they can cross-reference the number on the bearing to get you a new one.
I can talk you through anything you need to know about a 231.
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thanks bounty. I will have a closer look. :)
Ordered bearing and snap ring already. :)
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If the plastic bushing is gone, you may get lucky and not damaged the fork or collar yet.
The pump should be fine as long as there's no metal floating in the fluid and everything looks okay. Clean the pickup screen well, would be worthwhile to pull the rear case half and do that.
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I will pull the case half and have a look. :brick:
Now im gonna have to buy more anerobic sealer. :weee: Wish that crap was cheaper.
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I use RTV, very sparingly. I've seen it piled on and it breaks off, clogging the pickup filter to the oil pump.
A little RTV goes a long way, lay a small bead and rub it smooth with your finger. Very little should squeeze out during assembly.
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I completely agree. Ive seen motors blow up, as a result of the oil pump pickup screen full of rtv bits. :nono:
If used correctly, its great.
I personally have had even better experience with anerobic sealer. Lasts longer in the tube, seals more effectively in smaller tolerences. And doesnt gum up pick up tubes if a glob gets inside motor.
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Thanks, I'll take a look at it. But I am cheap ;)
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:doggy: :clap:
(http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e44/327amc/jeep/231tailshaft.jpg)
Bounty Hunter is the man! Even got me a bushing and seal. :naughty:
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If I had my blast cabinet already, it'd even be clean. Had to post my dirty parts, didn't ya :hump:
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Looks like he recovered it from the bottom of the sea. :lol:
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And it was one of the better ones :yikes:
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Alrighty. UPS finally showed up with my bearing and snap ring. But i think i got the wrong snap ring. It should be the size of the output shaft, rather than the OD of the bearing. ?
(http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e44/327amc/jeep/bearing.jpg)
Anyone know where this one goes?
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Output Bearing Retainign Ring for 88-99 Jeep® Wrangler YJ & TJ with Model 231 Transfer Case
$2.99 #52246.00
That be what i ordred. Looks like they sent me the input ring?
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That ring holds the bearing in the tailhousing. The only other split-ring near the tailhousing fits around the mainshaft after the tailhousing is installed and before the tailcone is installed.
Why do you need to replace the split-ring?
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I did not see any place i could put this ring in the tail housing. The ring is too big. The smaller ring that goes on the shaft up against the bearing is what i ordered. I just reused my old one instead. No big deal. I bent it up a little taking it off. Thats why i ordered another. But it all good.
J
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Another concern. When i finally put on the correct tail shaft, i had to use a rubber mallet to actually tap the slip yoke/driveshaft into the tranny! Is that normal? Was a darn tight fit. Once in, i could rotate by hand no problem. And i confirmed the bushing didnt move. Just never ran across something like that.
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Another concern. When i finally put on the correct tail shaft, i had to use a rubber mallet to actually tap the slip yoke/driveshaft into the tranny! Is that normal? Was a darn tight fit. Once in, i could rotate by hand no problem. And i confirmed the bushing didnt move. Just never ran across something like that.
not normal, should slip in by hand. most likely due to the fact that it wobbled in there and damage the splines (unless there was rust on them).
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I confirmed its something about the OD of the slip yoke, rather than the ID (splines).
The tip of the slip yoke is colored (blue) a bit from being hot looks like.
Yay for previous owners! :clap:
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Ok. Now back to this item.
Its bothered me that i have to drive the drive shaft in and out with a rubber mallet.
After a drive, i touched the tail shaft and its pretty warm. Hotter than it needs to be im sure. Hotter than the rest of the tcase .
So i hammered the driveshaft back out. Measured the OD of the slip yoke. Its a consistant 1.52".
The tailshaft housing was the one from bounty hunter. I left the bushing in it, as it looked very good.
So, now i have the shaft out, and took it over to the bench. I have a bushing by itself, and a 207 tail shaft housing with a good bushing in it also.
I can easily slide the slip yoke inside both of these parts.
So that leads me to believe the problem is the bushing in the housing currently on the jeep.
Anyone seen this weird problem before? Is it a thicker bushing in the t/s housing i got from bounty to accommodate a different OD slip yoke (smaller) driveshaft?
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Oh. And where to I find the bushing tool to install a new bushin?
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Ok. Now back to this item.
Its bothered me that i have to drive the drive shaft in and out with a rubber mallet.
After a drive, i touched the tail shaft and its pretty warm. Hotter than it needs to be im sure. Hotter than the rest of the tcase .
So i hammered the driveshaft back out. Measured the OD of the slip yoke. Its a consistant 1.52".
The tailshaft housing was the one from bounty hunter. I left the bushing in it, as it looked very good.
So, now i have the shaft out, and took it over to the bench. I have a bushing by itself, and a 207 tail shaft housing with a good bushing in it also.
I can easily slide the slip yoke inside both of these parts.
So that leads me to believe the problem is the bushing in the housing currently on the jeep.
Anyone seen this weird problem before? Is it a thicker bushing in the t/s housing i got from bounty to accommodate a different OD slip yoke (smaller) driveshaft?
if you take the tailhousing out does the d/s slide in on the splines easily?
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Thats what im fixin to check. Hadnt got round to it yet. I do know it slips on nicely until it gets to the bushing. But could be coincidence.
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Could it be that you're using a slipyoke designed for a 207 or other transfer case? Do you have any other slipyokes to test fit into the tailshaft housing?
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Ok. I think i see the problem. Bare with me. Its weird.
I took the housing off. And the shaft slide over the splines just fine. Then i slide the housing over the shaft while i had it off also. It slid over fine aswell. But once the output housing is installed, the driveshaft doesnt like to slide in.
In short. The output shaft is slightly offset more towards the top of the output housings hole. So when the driveshaft goes in, it actually hits the bushing at the 12oclock position, and there is a gap at the 6oclock position.
This pic shows i bolted the housing back on, and just butted up the slip yoke to the bushing. You can see no gap at the top. And a gap at the bottom.
(http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e44/327amc/jeep/shaftsidev-1.jpg)
So to determine if it was an alignment issue with the t/s housing mating surface, i bolted only the top bolt down. And still, no fit. I bolted each bolt on by itself also. And still the same problem. So the machined mating surfaces are atleast correct with each other.
So i just held the housing on by hand, and slide the slip yoke in and let the housing go where its comfortable. The housing tilted up just slightly to allow the shaft to slide in. In this pic you can see. At the 12oclock position of the parts mating surfaces, theres no gap. At the 6oclock position, there is a slight gap.
(http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e44/327amc/jeep/gap-1.jpg)
I was tired and came in for the night. It didnt occur to me till just now to check for a bent output shaft (by rotating it 180). I guess i will do that in the morn.
yay. :brick:
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I was tired and came in for the night. It didnt occur to me till just now to check for a bent output shaft (by rotating it 180). I guess i will do that in the morn.
yay. :brick:
yep, my thought too - good thing i read the whole post, i was about to say that.
just thinking if here if it might be a seating issue on the other half of the housing (the one with the bearing) - might be worth a check.
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Bent output shaft. :brick: :brick: :brick: :brick: :brick: :brick: :brick:
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Pretty common, especially when there's minimal spline engagement.
You're in luck, I have shafts too. It's a mainshaft and goes all the way through the TC, pretty easy to install.
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Pretty common, especially when there's minimal spline engagement.
You're in luck, I have shafts too. It's a mainshaft and goes all the way through the TC, pretty easy to install.
Yet again Bounty comes through with spare parts.
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Pretty common, especially when there's minimal spline engagement.
You're in luck, I have shafts too. It's a mainshaft and goes all the way through the TC, pretty easy to install.
lol.
You know the drill. :)
Invoice me.
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It's on the way :weee:
Have you been able to determine if the plastic pad on the shift fork is okay? Once you're into the case, shoot me an email if you need any help along the way. Emails dump straight to my phone so I get them pretty quick.
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Ive never done it before. So I will keep you abreast. :doggy:
The only thing im really not sure about is, do i need to remove the tcase from the jeep to change the shaft? Or can it be done in place?
I been watching vids and looking at manuals on it. So I think I might be ok.
Thanks again. :thumbsup:
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You can leave it in the jeep, doesn't make it that much more difficult. Just make sure you have a set of split-ring or lock-ring pliers, different from o-ring pliers. Get mine at Sears Item# 00947386000 | Model# 47386
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Yup. Got my split ring/lock ring pliers.
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The shaft is on the way, post office said Monday but they usually run a little quicker than estimated.
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Boy, i sure hope the new shaft is straighter than this one. :)
(http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e44/327amc/jeep/th_bentbeatandscared.jpg) (http://s36.photobucket.com/albums/e44/327amc/jeep/?action=view¤t=bentbeatandscared.flv)
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Nice video
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Glad my 4banger isn't the only one that sounds like a 2cyl tractor :yikes:
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Glad my 4banger isn't the only one that sounds like a 2cyl tractor :yikes:
:lol: He's got no muffler. Sounds like an idling VW or Merc diesel.
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LOL
Thanks.
Its got a Raptor muffler. I dont know what that is, just came with the jeep. All i know is i dont like it. I want a bit quieter one.
Im thinking about a spiraltech.
That was a cell phone vid. Im pretty impressed by the sound quality. :roflol:
That was also the first time ive started it since installing the Performance Distributors ignition setup. Runs a bit smoother now. :thumb:
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I've got a Borla header, new converter, and what was supposed to be an OEM replacement muffler, and it still sounds like a tractor.
Let us know how it goes tearing into the tcase.
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This is a pacesetter header and muffler. No pipe after the muffler. I figure if i ran out the back, it would be a bit better. But ya. sounds like a tractor. lol
I dont know if flowmaster makes any quiet muffs or not?
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Well. The weekend started out good. Had the tcase tore down in less than 30min.
But, im a little concerned about this...
(My shaft is on the bottom, new shaft is on the top)
(http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e44/327amc/jeep/1-1.jpg)
(http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e44/327amc/jeep/2-1.jpg)
The new shaft is longer.
And old shaft has some different machining in the forward spline area.
:brick:
I doubt this shaft will work. But looking for input.
Im just gonna order a SYE if i cant find the right shaft soon enough.
I still appreciate all the awesome help from Bounty and everyone. :thumb:
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PM sent.
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No problem bud. Its not a big deal. Shit happens. :smokes:
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'my little pony'? WTF? lol
Anyways, having a little trouble seating the new shaft fully. just trying to be careful and get it right. so i snapped some pics real quick.
I basically layed a piece of metal across the housing flange, and you can see where it butts up to the main shaft. Basically in an attempt to see if the shaft is in deep enough or not. ?
When i go to the put the rear housing half on, i cant seem to seat it fully by hand. It seats on the drivers side of the case, but on the mainshaft side, cant get it together. So i figure i havent got the shaft seated good enough. I havent tried putting bolts in to see if i can cinch it up. Dont want to break stuff.
I will keep at it. Heres some pics incase someone has experience with this.
(http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e44/327amc/jeep/housing1.jpg)
(http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e44/327amc/jeep/housing2.jpg)
(http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e44/327amc/jeep/housing3.jpg)
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i'm not an expert on 231 - just a thought, try and put the t-case in neutral see if that helps.
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thanks for the input. I figured it out.
I was trying to take a short cut and install the rear bearing housing and oilpump with the tcase housing at the same time. The shaft was fully seated. The problem was getting the oilpump gear indexed right to allow me to slide on that last little bit.
I got it on and together. So, the pics can be used for future reference to any other newbies trying to seat the main shaft i suppose.
Thanks again BountyHunter for coming through. I fired the jeep up and the new shaft looks great! :beers:
But..... (ya, theres a but) I still have to tap my rear driveshaft in with a rubber mallet. :brick: But its not nearly has hard. Before i really had to hammer the bitch in and out. This time it needs hammered on and off, but is easier.
So, my next quest is for another slipyoke to try. I do admit, with all the carnage that has apparently happened to this drive train, the slip yoke probably has seen better days anyways. It has some nasty wore spots on it, and it blued from heat also.
So, now anyone wanna sell a slipyoke?
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thanks for the input. I figured it out.
I was trying to take a short cut and install the rear bearing housing and oilpump with the tcase housing at the same time. The shaft was fully seated. The problem was getting the oilpump gear indexed right to allow me to slide on that last little bit.
I got it on and together. So, the pics can be used for future reference to any other newbies trying to seat the main shaft i suppose.
Thanks again BountyHunter for coming through. I fired the jeep up and the new shaft looks great! :beers:
But..... (ya, theres a but) I still have to tap my rear driveshaft in with a rubber mallet. :brick: But its not nearly has hard. Before i really had to hammer the steak & eggs in and out. This time it needs hammered on and off, but is easier.
So, my next quest is for another slipyoke to try. I do admit, with all the carnage that has apparently happened to this drive train, the slip yoke probably has seen better days anyways. It has some nasty wore spots on it, and it blued from heat also.
So, now anyone wanna sell a slipyoke?
i have a whole d/s but to be honest you're better off getting one at the wrecker's - the shipping would be costly.
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Ok. Picked up a drive shaft out of a cherokee today at the junker. It had a 231t/c in it.
Tried it when i got home and it slid right in and fits just like it should. Plus i also slipped mine into a th350 laying around. And it was difficult to slide into it aswell. So that confirms that my slip yoke is fubar.
But this one looks a tad different than mine. Just a bit shorter. The splines seem to be the same length since the stock slip yoke has a section at the mouth of the tube where there is no splines for about 1/4".
This cherokee slipyoke is about 1/4" shorter, but has splines all the way to the mouth. So i figure that makes up for it. ? This new one also says SPICER on it.
Anyone have any thoughts on using this chero slip yoke in a yj?
I havent even checked to see if its the same ujoints or not. ? Will just run it though autozone.com or something. Took it out of an early 90's cherokee looked like.
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Yes, XJ slip joints are shorter.
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The XJ/TJ/MJ slipyokes have less range of ujoint travel before the driveshaft binds on the slipyoke. Basically, the YJ slipyoke allows more driveshaft droop before binding due to the longer ears where the ujoint mounts. Many XJ owners swap to a YJ yoke for this reason.