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General Forums => The Mess Hall => Topic started by: BigCountry on April 01, 2010, 08:55:48 PM

Title: engine/trans swap
Post by: BigCountry on April 01, 2010, 08:55:48 PM
i'm debating on swapping a small block in or trying to give my squirrels steroids, and i've seen yjmechanic's thread on the performance 2.5, and searched around a little, but just wondering if there's an adapter out there to get the ax15 and the np231 that's bolted to my 2.5l. i know it's a 23 spline on the ax15 an 21 on the t-case, but i haven't been able to find just the shaft or an adapter kit. thinking of an LT1 for the swap, but it really all depends on the good will of the junkyard gods  :bow:
Title: Re: engine/trans swap
Post by: BigCountry on April 01, 2010, 08:58:51 PM
i know advance adapters has everything else i could need for the swap (just about)  and i noticed they didn't have anything to mate the 5.2L to anything...really my only reasoning toward the 5.2L dodge engine is availability. may also be a dumb question, but what donor cars am i gonna find the LT1 in?
Title: Re: engine/trans swap
Post by: Jeffy on April 01, 2010, 09:11:02 PM
i'm debating on swapping a small block in or trying to give my squirrels steroids, and i've seen yjmechanic's thread on the performance 2.5, and searched around a little, but just wondering if there's an adapter out there to get the ax15 and the np231 that's bolted to my 2.5l. i know it's a 23 spline on the ax15 an 21 on the t-case, but i haven't been able to find just the shaft or an adapter kit. thinking of an LT1 for the swap, but it really all depends on the good will of the junkyard gods  :bow:
You buy a OE 23 spline input shaft for your NP231.

http://www.novak-adapt.com/knowledge/np_nvg_input_gears.htm
Title: Re: engine/trans swap
Post by: BigCountry on April 04, 2010, 05:08:54 PM
just fully straightpipe the exhaust system on the 2.5l that should take care of everything :thumbsup:

I'm sure that PENNDOT would love that! so would the inspection and emissions guys, and the cops too!
Title: Re: engine/trans swap
Post by: BigCountry on April 04, 2010, 05:28:51 PM
so i've read the cummins 4bt can house pretty much unlimited power, but according to my dad, the are hard as hell to start in the winter and slower than a snail off the line. somebody try and sell me on it, and i might consider it over a V8 or a 2.5 build up. i guess we'll just have to see...
Title: Re: engine/trans swap
Post by: FourbangerYJ on April 04, 2010, 05:38:28 PM
There is a bunch of video's on youtube with the 4BT. Put in 4BT or Cummins 4BT in the search. I don't think they have glow plugs so winter starting could be a problem. You could put a heater of some sort that keeps the oil/water warm which makes starting easier.
Title: Re: engine/trans swap
Post by: BigCountry on April 05, 2010, 02:58:11 PM
lol it was sarcasm. though all needed is a cat muffler and egr present pre-96 vehicles. there is no diagnostic check

i knew it was sarcasm. hence my reason for replying that way lol
Title: Re: engine/trans swap
Post by: stan98tj on April 05, 2010, 11:46:31 PM
There is a bunch of video's on youtube with the 4BT. Put in 4BT or Cummins 4BT in the search. I don't think they have glow plugs so winter starting could be a problem. You could put a heater of some sort that keeps the oil/water warm which makes starting easier.
one of the videos i saw about those engines was from a shop in canada that does the swap. they mentioned having no problems in winter starts, though they claimed a slight issue at somewhere around -35* or so. So they prob have glowplugs then again they could be full of crap...
Title: Re: engine/trans swap
Post by: YJmechanic on April 05, 2010, 11:54:29 PM
i have thought about the 4bt alot.  i have never seen anyone with the swap having any power issues with them at all.  maybe if the gearing doesnt match the motor output then you may get too much low end.  they are rated for about 300lb/ft so i think the low end should be fine.  well see what happens but im in pa too so maybe we can fight over the swap parts around the area :guns: what part are you from?
Title: Re: engine/trans swap
Post by: Jeffy on April 05, 2010, 11:59:19 PM
one of the videos i saw about those engines was from a shop in canada that does the swap. they mentioned having no problems in winter starts, though they claimed a slight issue at somewhere around -35* or so. So they prob have glowplugs then again they could be full of crap...
4BT doesn't use glow plugs since it's direct injection, IIRC.  Some people have added grid heaters.
Title: Re: engine/trans swap
Post by: stan98tj on April 06, 2010, 12:09:13 AM
4BT doesn't use glow plugs since it's direct injection, IIRC.  Some people have added grid heaters.
I stand corrected sir. You are both correct-no glow plugs for the 4bt or 6bt.
Title: Re: engine/trans swap
Post by: YJmechanic on April 06, 2010, 12:11:23 AM
6bt uses a grid heater on the intake,  i have seen the same thing adapted for the 4bt
Title: Re: engine/trans swap
Post by: BigCountry on April 10, 2010, 02:35:55 PM
i have thought about the 4bt alot.  i have never seen anyone with the swap having any power issues with them at all.  maybe if the gearing doesnt match the motor output then you may get too much low end.  they are rated for about 300lb/ft so i think the low end should be fine.  well see what happens but im in pa too so maybe we can fight over the swap parts around the area :guns: what part are you from?

west chester. about 30 miles west of philly. about 10 miles from king of prussia
Title: Re: engine/trans swap
Post by: Bounty Hunter on April 10, 2010, 09:44:03 PM
I've got a bunch of 231 input shafts if anybody is considering a conversion.  I also recommend scoring a wide chain kit and 6gear planetary if you want to make the 231 live behind a v8.  I've got mine setup this way, I don't think the 2.5L is gonna hurt it LOL.
Title: Re: engine/trans swap
Post by: FourbangerYJ on April 10, 2010, 09:55:53 PM
I've got a bunch of 231 input shafts if anybody is considering a conversion.  I also recommend scoring a wide chain kit and 6gear planetary if you want to make the 231 live behind a v8.  I've got mine setup this way, I don't think the 2.5L is gonna hurt it LOL.

How wide is the standard 231 chain VS. the wide chain?
Title: Re: engine/trans swap
Post by: Jeffy on April 10, 2010, 10:42:02 PM
How wide is the standard 231 chain VS. the wide chain?
1" vs 1.25"
Title: Re: engine/trans swap
Post by: Bounty Hunter on April 10, 2010, 10:53:20 PM
^^^^Yep, and fits right in with the wider sprockets.  Good upgrade, less likely to stretch.  Can be found in many TC's, like the 233c for example.
Title: Re: engine/trans swap
Post by: Jeffy on April 10, 2010, 10:55:14 PM
You can also find it on NVG231 D's as well as HD's.  I'm not sure about C's though.  You'll need to swap the sprockets with the chain.  You might as well get the 6 gear planetary as well if you're going to do all that.
Title: Re: engine/trans swap
Post by: drunkencityworker on April 11, 2010, 12:16:12 AM
I had talked to bounty bout this before.. My buddy put a 5.0 and t18 in yj. We went to junk yard and pulled a 231 c apart in the yard. Scores a 6 planetary and wide chain and sprockets for 30bucks. It doubles or triples the torque rating for the tcase. He used the jb supershort sye and has worked sweet so far. Little dirty secrete on strengthening the 231j. For some reason not all planetaries will mesh. dont know if its a year thing but take a cell phone pic of your current so you can see when tearing apart in yard. But big chains should work for all. JB was slow on returning call but once he made contact they were quick with product. and its considerabley shorter than my sye. Depending on axle,motor and trans length nice piece of mind you have the shortest sye
Title: Re: engine/trans swap
Post by: FourbangerYJ on April 13, 2010, 08:42:49 PM
1" vs 1.25"

Interesting, I just measured a 241 chain and it's only 5/8's... I thought they would atleast be the same as a 231. ??? Glad my T-case don't have a chain  :wall:
Title: Re: engine/trans swap
Post by: st.chevrolet on April 13, 2010, 09:55:47 PM
Dodge NP 241 chain is 1.25" wide and the Dodge NP 241 DHD is 1.50" wide
Title: Re: engine/trans swap
Post by: FourbangerYJ on April 13, 2010, 10:15:38 PM
Dodge NP 241 chain is 1.25" wide and the Dodge NP 241 DHD is 1.50" wide

 It came out of a Rubicon T-case. Aren't they a 241?
Title: Re: engine/trans swap
Post by: st.chevrolet on April 14, 2010, 06:51:38 PM
Yes  but a beefed up or reinforced 241, but it still has the 1.25 chain.
Title: Re: engine/trans swap
Post by: YJmechanic on April 22, 2010, 12:08:24 AM
yeah rubicons got a "special" 241OR rock track. 


west chester. about 30 miles west of philly. about 10 miles from king of prussia

wow youre not too far then,  im in the south central area,  right at the MD line,  been up your way for a thing at quadratec one time.  maybe well have to meet up for this 4bt project one of these days,  you ever see the cky guys up there?
Title: Re: engine/trans swap
Post by: FourbangerYJ on April 24, 2010, 02:47:02 PM
Interesting, I just measured a 241 chain and it's only 5/8's... I thought they would atleast be the same as a 231. ??? Glad my T-case don't have a chain  :wall:

Turns out I was measuring a timing chain from a Ford 460  :wall: :lol:
Title: Re: engine/trans swap
Post by: BigCountry on April 27, 2010, 03:12:32 PM
wow youre not too far then,  im in the south central area,  right at the MD line,  been up your way for a thing at quadratec one time.  maybe well have to meet up for this 4bt project one of these days,  you ever see the cky guys up there?
[/quote]

quadratec is literally 5 minutes from my house! just a total shame they don't have an actual store tho. yeah i'm definitely game for meeting up. it would be cool to get some rigs together and head up to rausch creek off road park. bout 70 miles from here