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General Forums => The Mess Hall => Topic started by: subsonic on April 22, 2010, 08:24:03 PM
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Looking for something to help my jeep keep from stalling while I am offroading.
What are the pros and cons of the inertia ring vs the hand throttle?
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Looking for something to help my jeep keep from stalling while I am offroading.
What are the pros and cons of the inertia ring vs the hand throttle?
they serve different purposes, the inertia ring is meant to keep the rotational momentum of the crankshaft going at low rpm. so you would probably want both to improve your chances of not stalling the engine, the hand throttle would be used in other situations as well like starting on a ramp uphill where your right foot is on the brake.
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yup, there is no vs. BOTH would be best though. The hand throttle will allow finer throttle inputs which keeps you from romping on it when things get tough. It also allows you to not have to resort to three-footing it with the clutch, brake and throttle.
The inertia ring does just what it says. Add inertia to the engine's flywheel. This helps make up for the loss of power and delay between #4 cylinders power stroke and #1's power stroke. The engine can resist stalling to some extend when the tires become stuck.
Neither will make up for not having low enough gears though.
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Truthfully a hand throttle is nice to air up tires when you have a york compressor for onboard air other than that it doesn't have much use. Good gearing for crawling and an inertia ring will work wonders for crawling over rocks no hand throttle needed. Some of my buddies have them on their Jeeps and all they get used for is to rev the engine a bot for airing up tires or running an impact.
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Hmm, I use mine for cruising down the highway when I have to shift in my seat. I used it a few times when I started to wonder if I could drive around town without using the pedal, too... It's a conversation piece as well.
Having to three footing it while in a precarious position, it pays for itself. They are cheap, if you source the parts yourself. Otherwise, Rubicon Express sells a 'kit' which really isn't a kit but rather a collection of parts most of which you don't use.
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They are cheap, if you source the parts yourself. Otherwise, Rubicon Express sells a 'kit' which really isn't a kit but rather a collection of parts most of which you don't use.
i went to all the bike shops around and it actually comes to be more expensive - i asked a couple of them and they said it's because the lever shifters are not standard anymore and are hard to find.
i kinda like the Teraflex one better, i'll probably end up getting one of those.
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i went to all the bike shops around and it actually comes to be more expensive - i asked a couple of them and they said it's because the lever shifters are not standard anymore and are hard to find.
i kinda like the Teraflex one better, i'll probably end up getting one of those.
They use the same crappy shifter but Teraflex charges a bit more.
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going up a hill or whatever with a good crawl ratio is cake no need to get panicky about it. Haven't found a need for the thing yet, like I said most of the peeps I wheel with that have one of those either do not use it, or only use it rev the engine to air up tires or use the onboard air. If you stall a lot while wheeling , it's simply time to regear the beast.
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I never use my hand throttle on the trail other than to air up the tires or to winch.
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After I got lower gears in the t-case I stopped using it. In fact I forget it's there. They are handy on real steep hills if you get stopped in the middle and don't want to roll backwards while getting started again.
But like others have said gearing is the real fix to be able to handle the rough terrain.
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going up a hill or whatever with a good crawl ratio is cake no need to get panicky about it. Haven't found a need for the thing yet, like I said most of the peeps I wheel with that have one of those either do not use it, or only use it rev the engine to air up tires or use the onboard air. If you stall a lot while wheeling , it's simply time to regear the beast.
Aren't you running an automatic?
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I have both on mine as well; I just recently installed the hand throttle, though, and have not wheeled with it yet, so this is all opinion base (thus, take it at face value). First off, I agree that it is better to have both, as it is not one vs the other kind of thing... I think they serve different purposes, and can complement one another.
With the innertia ring, if you hit an obstacle, the Jeep will not stall as easily as without it. I have found it very useful when hitting the banks of rivers, with all the small/mid size rocks, you can idle and the engine will not stall that easily (although if you hit a big enough one, it will stall).
As for the hand throttle, the reasons I installed it were:
- To rev up the engine for winching and airing up (my comrpessor is an electric one, but it is still good to get the amps up to run it for longer periods, such as when airing up or using air tools with the spare tank)
- Better throttle control on fire roads and river banks with lots of small/mid size rocks (when you are in low range, and you are bouncing all over the place, your foot tends to press and depress the gas pedal, and this causes the Jeep to jerk around; with a hand throttle, you can keep a steady speed regardless of the bumps)
- Hill starts (if you stall out in the middle of a hill, it's easier to start and keep going with a hand throttle)
I have also tried it for shifting on my seat while cruising down the highway (my cruise control is currently not working), but I rather fix the cruise control than use the hand throttle for this (I dont feel as comfortable with the hand throttle for this purpose). Hopefully, the cruise control will be fixed this weekend, and I will not depend on the hand throttle for the 16 hour drive back to Panama at the end of May...
I also got the RE kit, as it was cheaper than the prices at the bike stores. Here's a pic of the hand throttle:
(http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f138/jfrabat/Jeep/DSC03827.jpg)
And here's a pic of the engine bay (you can see the hand throttle and cruise control going to the TB):
(http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f138/jfrabat/Jeep/DSC03828.jpg)
By the way, this is the type of terrain where I THINK I will be using the hand throttle for:
Rocky roads (OK, THESE rocks are on the small size, but I did not have pics of anything bigger; you get the idea, though):
(http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f138/jfrabat/Jeep/Paseo%20en%20Jeep%20-%20CR%20Mar%202010/DSC01084.jpg)
River banks
(http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f138/jfrabat/Jeep/Paseo%20en%20Jeep%20-%20CR%20Mar%202010/DSC01036.jpg)
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Nope Jeffy stick shift and I remember the time on Phobia hill in Moab which is so steep that with the parking brake on the tires just and Jeep just started sliding back when I took my foot of the brake. Just a bit of throttle and easy on the clutch and it climbed no problem. 4:1. 4.88 or 5:13's and 35's make this stuff easy going. Seems to me to much throttle and feathering the clutch makes a for a lot of Jerking which is not good and it is does not make for a happy clutch either.
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Nope Jeffy stick shift and I remember the time on Phobia hill in Moab which is so steep that with the parking brake on the tires just and Jeep just started sliding back when I took my foot of the brake. Just a bit of throttle and easy on the clutch and it climbed no problem. 4:1. 4.88 or 5:13's and 35's make this stuff easy going. Seems to me to much throttle and feathering the clutch makes a for a lot of Jerking which is not good and it is does not make for a happy clutch either.
Lower gears definitely help. If you don't have the money though and you're on stock gears with 33's, the hand throttle is a cheap investment.
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Lower gears definitely help. If you don't have the money though and you're on stock gears with 33's, the hand throttle is a cheap investment.
As a side note, lower gears and help or hinder; in my case, a 4:1 TC would hinder more than help, as I would not have enough wheel speed to clear the mud from the tires (especially that thick gooy clay-like stuff). Now, 5.13's on the diffs would CERTAINLY help me out, but I doubt I would fine a 4:1 useful for my type of terrain... And for when I DO find some terrain where I need some control, the Hand Throttle SHOULD (remember I have yet to try out!) come in handy at a very cheap cost (under $30).
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Felipe the ultimate is a 3 or 4 speed transfercase, will give you good crawlratio and wheel speed when you want it. For dirt roads and mud a 2.73 or 2.5 low range is pretty much the ticket, but it's to high for crawling unless you have an automatic with a nice first gear ratio. Also the heaviest flywheel/ inertia ring you could possibly put on there would be a great help since it would help keep the engine revved up longer, definitely would help from bogging down and getting stuck in a mud pit
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Felipe the ultimate is a 3 or 4 speed transfercase, will give you good crawlratio and wheel speed when you want it. For dirt roads and mud a 2.73 or 2.5 low range is pretty much the ticket, but it's to high for crawling unless you have an automatic with a nice first gear ratio. Also the heaviest flywheel/ inertia ring you could possibly put on there would be a great help since it would help keep the engine revved up longer, definitely would help from bogging down and getting stuck in a mud pit
Well, I currently run a 9 Lb inertia ring (TCG set) and the stock TC. For me, the stock TC has been enough so far. In the type of terrain we wheel, rocks are not that common; ussually just around rivers, so keeping a higher idle (via hand throttle) is enough. Of course, ideally, a 3 speed TC would be great, but is it worth the investment vs a $25 dollar Hand Throttle? For others, it may be worth it, but not to me.
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Actually Felipe for you big heavy tires and rims would help a lot too, anything with a lot of rotating mass once up to speed is hard to slow down also for mud the less stuff you drag through it the better
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Well, I currently run a 9 Lb inertia ring (TCG set) and the stock TC. For me, the stock TC has been enough so far. In the type of terrain we wheel, rocks are not that common; ussually just around rivers, so keeping a higher idle (via hand throttle) is enough. Of course, ideally, a 3 speed TC would be great, but is it worth the investment vs a $25 dollar Hand Throttle? For others, it may be worth it, but not to me.
I'd probably look into a 3-speed transfer case since you'll never really need 100:1 as it seems it's all slick clay out there and you need more wheel speed. You already have a SYE so it's a bit of a toss up. I'd probably consider an axle swap then go 5.13's or 5.38's and stick with the stock transfer case.
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I have a grand total of $7.00 in my hand throttle, including some used parts, all sourced at the local bike shop. I can't do without it, so I guess I'm not as talented a wheeler as some of you claim to be. It was used frequently on my trip to Moab because it eliminated the need to grow a third foot. I use it wheelin' locally when I end up starting up on a slope and when I'm winching. I would like to have an inertia ring; it just makes sense to me. Maybe in the future.
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You all know you can start the jeep with it in gear, 4lo, without your foot on the clutch, right?
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Thanks for all of the great answers!
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Does the inertia ring effect highway driving? What about the cost to install or any detrimental effects of adding weight to the flywheel? Any vibes etc...
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Does the inertia ring effect highway driving? What about the cost to install or any detrimental effects of adding weight to the flywheel? Any vibes etc...
constant hwy driving no, city driving with stop lights and often braking/acceleration yes. less mpg, revs up a bit slower.
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I saw the hand throttle in the quadratec catalog and was on the fence about getting one until I saw all of your posts. Great information. :clap:
Is there any inertia rings that are prefered or previously used? I've read write ups, but from what I can remember it was home brewed from a different application.
Thanks!
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Tricounty gear in Pomona CA sells them, or make your own
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Sweet, I'll give them a call. :thumbsup:
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You all know you can start the jeep with it in gear, 4lo, without your foot on the clutch, right?
Yup. Hate to admit I have found myself needing to do this before... And it got me out of a bind (I killed the engine on a steep hil with a lot of dust and small stones; was the only way I managed to get out of it).
constant hwy driving no, city driving with stop lights and often braking/acceleration yes. less mpg, revs up a bit slower.
X2
Tricounty gear in Pomona CA sells them, or make your own
That's the one I run.