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General Forums => The Mess Hall => Topic started by: Mozman68 on May 27, 2010, 09:12:55 PM
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Went to take Dougie for a ride. Turned at a light, was accelerating into 2nd gear and the Jeep sputtered and died. Was able to coast into a parking lot where it was having trouble starting.
Waited a few minutes and it started up. Reved and seemed fine.
Started to pull away and it wanted to die again...only seemed to happen when the Jeep was rolling.
I was able to make it home without it happening again, but actually, I was nervous about going too fast as I didn't want to lose all power again and have trouble steering or braking.
I'm thinking crankshaft position sensor...has never been reaplaced.
Thoughts before I spend $100 on one of those??
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if your crank would die and the cam sensor would still provide signal you would end up with a code. my guess is coil or gas related, but if it does it again check the spark, can't suggest anything about gas since you don't have a schraeder valve (i think), if you do you can press the valve (carefully) to see if there's pressure in the rail.
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Quite possible it's the crank position sensor, but it could also be the camshaft position sensor. Just had that same problem with my sisters 2000 4.0 (no distributor), it did the same as yours did a few times and finally threw a code. The Snap-On scanner showed Crank Position Sensor/Cam Position Sensor. Replaced the Cam sensor first but it turned out to be the Crank sensor.
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I had a friend with a Cherokee chase round and round for a cause on his. He threw all kinds of parts at his. Ended up being a bad ground to the PCM module. What I'm tring to say is check the basics (spark, fuel, air) first. It's best to get it scanned before throwing parts, because a lot of places won't let you return electronics unless your a mechanic.
My 2 cents
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Ran fine this morning on three separate occasions.....going to tear into the wiring this weekend to finally fix the speedo and wrap up some other loose wires while the weathers nice and have nothing to do all weekend. :thumb:
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Weird...happened again quickly while driving to Harbor Freight....was in 3rd...low rpm's....was like the engine, electrical...everything, simply shut off for a second...didn't lose it completely...came right back up so I accelerated and got into 4th.
Wonder if it IS a sensor....or something was knocked lose when I had my manifold replaced/trip to Attica..... ???
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Weird...happened again quickly while driving to Harbor Freight....was in 3rd...low rpm's....was like the engine, electrical...everything, simply shut off for a second...didn't lose it completely...came right back up so I accelerated and got into 4th.
Wonder if it IS a sensor....or something was knocked lose when I had my manifold replaced/trip to Attica..... ???
did your speedo or tach dropped to zero (or both/neither)?
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Yep...both....
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Did you try to recover any Pcodes?
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Did you try to recover any Pcodes?
not yet....heading to AutoZone when I leave work early today....:whistle:
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If everything is shutting down it seems it would be something that affects everything. Maybe a connector from the battery and alternator to the rest of the electical system, maybe a key relay.
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Yep...both....
sounds like the PCM is losing main power or general ground (although that would be unusual since there are multiple ground points)
If everything is shutting down it seems it would be something that affects everything. Maybe a connector from the battery and alternator to the rest of the electical system, maybe a key relay.
if the battery gets disconnected the alternator would still provide power, same for alternator if the battery has enough voltage
a main fuse or relay or even wire is probably a better guess
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so...decided to start throwing the Taurus electric fan in tonight...any suggestions on how to connect the passenger side?? I was able to use a standard hole on the top of the shroud and drill a second hole for the bottom to attach to stock locations on the driver side, but the passenger side doesn't really have any attachment points.
Also, what did you do for the coolant reservoir and the power steering reservoir??
I think I may cut the plastic off the old shroud for the coolant reservoir, but that won't work for the power steering.
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so...decided to start throwing the Taurus electric fan in tonight...any suggestions on how to connect the passenger side?? I was able to use a standard hole on the top of the shroud and drill a second hole for the bottom to attach to stock locations on the driver side, but the passenger side doesn't really have any attachment points.
Also, what did you do for the coolant reservoir and the power steering reservoir??
I think I may cut the plastic off the old shroud for the coolant reservoir, but that won't work for the power steering.
But with the electric fan in there, what are you going to do with all the new space you get with the shroud out, Moz?
Every time you pop the hood, it's going to be, "darn, the engine installer at the Jeep plant must have thought this was a Festiva," then probably, "$crew the kids' college fund, $crew charitable contributions, and $crew vet appointments for the dog until I can get a V8 in there!" :biggrin:
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But with the electric fan in there, what are you going to do with all the new space you get with the shroud out, Moz?
He's gonna store chili there in a big vat that is kept warm by the engine so whenever he feels peckish, he can get out, pop the hood and have a spoon full of delicious chili. :lol:
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:pot:
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Using the space to keep chili/food warm is a good idea. I could see doing that.
Definitely not enough space -- it'd need to hold 40"x24"x24" -- but I'd want to (theoretically) try to store a gas pocketbike in there just for laughs http://www.minipocketrockets.com/cagllari-pocket-rocket/.
Airflow would probably be a problem, but a pocketbike in there would be a relatively cheap way to keep me smiling about all the newfound space when I put the hood up, post e-fan install. :pirate:
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Fan, coolant bottle and power steering bottle are mounted. Have been taking my time today to make sure all the wiring is done as neatly and tucked away as possible.
Decided this afternoon to pick up an on/off switch for the cab. Still need to figure out how to tie in the ac 12v line so the fan is forced on when the ac is on. Not too worrid if that one actually gets wired anytime soon.
Will post some pics later...going for a quick swim.
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Still need to figure out how to tie in the ac 12v line so the fan is forced on when the ac is on. Not too worrid if that one actually gets wired anytime soon.
use a second relay controlled by the ac clutch 12v line.
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use a second relay controlled by the ac clutch 12v line.
don't need the relay as I have the DC Control unit...I just need to find the 12v line....haven't even looked it up yet.
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don't need the relay as I have the DC Control unit...I just need to find the 12v line....haven't even looked it up yet.
gotcha, that's easy then
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I purchased the Derale DER-16759 Deluxe Adjustable Fan Controllers with Radiator Probe for my fan from Summit Racing for $40 + shipping and tax. Includes a probe to insert into the radiator (or you can get the water temp sensor), and adjustable temperature to trigger the on/off, and a over ride circuit that taps into your a/c compressor's electoric clutch. As soon as the a/c clutch is engaged, it then would trigger the fan.
Well worth the money.
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/DER-16759/
The picture looks like an old model. Mine has a all module plugs that can be removed, and the adjustment potentiometer is protected with a small rubber cover. I'll be posting some pictures of it soon. I just picked up a Ford Mark V/Taurus fan with shroud and I'm going to be re-wiring the rat's nest and hack job of my existing pontiac fan. I'm hoping to do it by the next few days, we'll see if my best intentions pan out. ; )
(http://static.summitracing.com/global/images/prod/large/der-16759_w.jpg)
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Success...but a couple of bonehead moves...
1) Always remember to put the 4 nuts back on the clutch fan plate before starting the engine. :brick: I thought it was just a tool that fell off the Jeep when I started up...then I was wondering why my voltage was sitting at 9...went to the engine bay and just see the belt sitting there turning nothing and the plate on the floor. Then I had to loosen the whole belt up just to get it back on...oh well...it worked.
2) Before you drill a hole in your dash, make sure there is room behind the hole for the toggle switch. :brick: Noty sure how much I'm off...I may be able to do a little trimming to make it sit flush.
Unit said the temperature was set at 180, but the fan didn't come on, so I lowered it. AC wire worked dandy...fan comes right on when I turn the AC on. And the toggle switch so I can turn off during a water crossing or for any other reason works great.
I just can't believe it...everything worked fine on the first try.
Will post up some pics of my install tonight in my build thread. :thumbsup:
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So you got the DC controller or that two-fan setup he sells?
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So you got the DC controller or that two-fan setup he sells?
I got the DC Control 2-speed fan controller....only comes on at temperature, although I think I have it set too low as it is now on the whole time on my test drive.
Another weird thing...Jeep had one of those "blips" again in second gear.
CEL went out and it's like it fixed itself. No speedo issues... Everything is smooth.
Going to wire up the speedo correction module tomorrow and check for a short on that line.
Hey....fan just shut off...woo hoo!!!
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I've gone to just a switch and relay. I'd be curious to know if you get the shutter when you idle and the fan kicks in. I think that's what killed my cat and loosened the bolts on my head pipe.
I email DCC several months ago and got nothing.
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I've gone to just a switch and relay. I'd be curious to know if you get the shutter when you idle and the fan kicks in. I think that's what killed my cat and loosened the bolts on my head pipe.
I email DCC several months ago and got nothing.
None at all....can barely hear it come on much less feel it.
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None at all....can barely hear it come on much less feel it.
So it steps the power or does it come on full?
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So it steps the power or does it come on full?
I'm not sure...I don't have a reference point to tell what it would sound like...all I know is that there is no sudden drop in power or shutter.
I'll take a video tomorrow......
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Mine is loud enough that I can hear it inside. It sounds like the heater fan is on. Also, it blows everything under the Jeep away. The fan is strong enough to pull at hoodie strings if you get close to the grill.
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I have the doors off....I could only hear it with the radio off and if I was at a stop light. :thumbsup:
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Spent part of the morning wiring in the Dakota calibration unit to the speed sensor.
My jumping speedo is back and I think it may be the death of me. I guess I'll be tracing the speedo wire to make sure nothing is exposed causing the jumpiness. Or I may just sell the Jeep and buy a new one...may be easier.... :brick:
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I have the doors off....I could only hear it with the radio off and if I was at a stop light. :thumbsup:
I can hear mine though the firewall. Although mine is a bit larger then yours. 18" vs 16".
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I can definitely feel a difference in acceleration. I as actually surprised at the difference.
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I can definitely feel a difference in acceleration. I as actually surprised at the difference.
That's because the fan's weight and the winds resistance slows the spool of the engine. It should spin up faster now. You might not notice the extra power at high RPM's but it should be there as well.
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Well...I've been gone the past three days, but driving my son to baseball, the speedo dropped down completely and stopped working. Then, as soon as I push in the clutch to downshif coming to a stop light, rpm's go all the way down and Jeep dies.
CEL went out again.
Could it be as simple as a bad ground on the speedo wire which in turn is screwing up the engine management system when it cuts out completely??
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Well...I've been gone the past three days, but driving my son to baseball, the speedo dropped down completely and stopped working. Then, as soon as I push in the clutch to downshif coming to a stop light, rpm's go all the way down and Jeep dies.
CEL went out again.
Could it be as simple as a bad ground on the speedo wire which in turn is screwing up the engine management system when it cuts out completely??
i don't think so, sounds more like a PCM power or ground or cranks/cam sensor issue. Is the jeep keep running if you keep the revs up? if that's the case then it can be something else as well, i am not sure if you meant that it dies even if you keep it in gear or not.
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Well...there are worst things I could do than change out the Crankshaft position sensor...the Jeep does have about 120k on it, so it will probably go bad anyway if it isn't the cause.
We'll try that first and then move on to something else if that doesn't fix it. :'(
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Hmmm...didn't see my temperature going down on my way back from lunch....my 30 amp fuse blew at some point.
I used the 30 amp as that is what Jeffy had in his write-up. Is there any reason I should use a larger one, or I wonder if this could be related to my power problems?
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Hmmm...didn't see my temperature going down on my way back from lunch....my 30 amp fuse blew at some point.
I used the 30 amp as that is what Jeffy had in his write-up. Is there any reason I should use a larger one, or I wonder if this could be related to my power problems?
as long as your wires and relay can handle it you can go 40 or 50 amps
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:whistle:
(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4037/4671902861_ce097e8c5d_b.jpg)
Stupid Chrysler mechanic didn't route the O2 wire properly which was forcing the crankshaft position sensor over too close to the manifold.....so...over the past couple of years, it's been hitting the pipe.
A quick drive showed improvement in the engine, but the speedo was still jumping. Disconnected the battery for a while and will try again after everything has had time to re-set itself.
Even if the speedo still jumps, I feel at least this was a good exercise. :thumbsup:
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:thumb: That should do the trick! Not sure on the speedo fix.
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Well...I guess I need to give the computer a few drives to set itself up.
As far as the speedo is concerned, now I don't mind pulling those wires now to see if something similar has happened there.
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Check engine light has stayed off after multiple starts and stops....I don't think it's done that for more than 3 years.
If I feel like it, may trace the speedo wires tomorrow to see what's up with that...
:clap:
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don't think the computer reset would help in any way with the speedo. I would pull the cover off those wires and remove/replace the burned portions (solder and heat shrink tube on top). I wouldn't be surprised if the speedo suffers from a similar problem.
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don't think the computer reset would help in any way with the speedo. I would pull the cover off those wires and remove/replace the burned portions (solder and heat shrink tube on top). I wouldn't be surprised if the speedo suffers from a similar problem.
yep...it'll be one of those days when I wished I worked at a garge and had a lift.
Those wires run up and over the transfer case....supposed to be rainy tomorrow. Should be a good day to trace wires.
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Well...that's three 30 amp fuses that have blown. Good thing I've been carrying a box of them.
I'm guessing it's a combination of the fan temp being set too low and the fuse being too small for the high speed coming on.
Guess I'll be moving up to a bigger fuse.
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Are you using a blade fuse or mini fuse?
(http://www.unionparts.net/images/productimages/electronics_fuse_mini_blade.jpg)
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Blade....I figured bigger was better.
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Blade....I figured bigger was better.
(http://www.bcae1.com/images/jpegs/fusemaxi.jpg)
you should run the maxi fuse not the blade fuses if thats not what your running.
or even better circuit breaker
resettable
(http://shop.sailnet.com/images/cwr/20568.gif)
auto resettable
(http://media.digikey.com/photos/E-T-A%20Photos/1160-02-30A.jpg)
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doesn't matter what type of fuse it is, if one 30 amp type will blow so will the other ones - it means he's got more current flowing thru it than the rating and it serves the purpose well (interrupts the circuit once is overloaded). He will need to either use the low speed or up the wires and fuse to handle the amps on the high speed.
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the small blade fuses won't handle the constant draw sure some may handle it for a bit. I have also had some were it wasn't pulling the max the fuse could take and it didn't blow the fuse but it melted the fuse holder from the constant draw and the connections and wire couldn't handle the heat generated. heat = more amps then norm also.
done it with stereo stuff to.. that's why I suggested the heavier style holder.
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the small blade fuses won't handle the constant draw sure some may handle it for a bit. I have also had some were it wasn't pulling the max the fuse could take and it didn't blow the fuse but it melted the fuse holder from the constant draw and the connections and wire couldn't handle the heat generated. heat = more amps then norm also.
done it with stereo stuff to.. that's why I suggested the heavier style holder.
bad contacts will result in heat. bigger/larger size (not amp rating) fuses will most likely have larger terminals so less likely to fail, but if everything is new and properly sized 30 amp fuse is supposed to fail at over 30 amps and hold up to that. Now, what can happen is to stick a 30 amp fuse in a 20 amp rated slot and that's when you melt the plastic (same with the wires) - but that is a different problem.
in this case bigger is better (or safer) for sure.
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bad contacts will result in heat. bigger/larger size (not amp rating) fuses will most likely have larger terminals so less likely to fail, but if everything is new and properly sized 30 amp fuse is supposed to fail at over 30 amps and hold up to that. Now, what can happen is to stick a 30 amp fuse in a 20 amp rated slot and that's when you melt the plastic (same with the wires) - but that is a different problem.
in this case bigger is better (or safer) for sure.
yup bigger better for sure. I had some rated for the fuse but they still burnt from just not being big or good enough contacts.. same with stereo equipment/fuse holders. I would go with the maxi fuse set up at the least for more of a constant draw aspect..
even factory applications run the maxi fuses for the most part for fan or constant currant applications.
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my solution= toggle switch.
You still need a fuse.
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New TPS went in without much problem...not sure why, but I expected a difference. I guess there was nothing wrong with the old one as nothing has changed. Oh well...off to trace the speedo wire if the wife ever gives me a break from my honey-do list.... :brick:
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oh...and put a 40amp fuse in and haven't had an issue with my fan since.
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Sure hope you used a maxi fuse holder and fuse for your 40 amp fuse.
the 30 amp fuse holders for the smaller fuses fail over time, the 40 amp small blade fuse holders definitely do not hold up over time, seen to many connection problems and melted fuses with those, a maxi fuse fixes that problem
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oh...and put a 40amp fuse in and haven't had an issue with my fan since.
I use a 40A maxi fuse on mine, and have yet to blow it once in the 3 years it's been in there...
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I use a standard blade fuse. I did have it blow once but that was with the thermostat turning it on and off all the time. No problems without the thermostat.