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General Forums => The Mess Hall => Topic started by: penske2704 on July 05, 2010, 10:42:25 PM
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i just put a fresh engine and now i iam redy to cam it
i done some reserch and found 3 companies how carry them
- hesco rv cam
- clifford
- and this one for 50 $ ----http://chucker54.stores.yahoo.net/moje2ca.html---
what you guys think i should put in and i want it to be bolt on and dont want to do extreme head work
tank for the help
by the way 1998 tj whit 95 yj engine tj fuel rail and injector 5 speed 4.10 gear
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I have the Hesco, it pulls very well, but you will have to put new valve springs on due to its lift and profile.
The Hesco unit is ground by CLay Smith ,,, good name at least...
Dave
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compared to your original cam was it worth it ? what kind of improvement did i made ?
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Well, id say a lot... Its hard to separate cause I did the whole motor
at one time including raising the compression a point and doing a full
balance and blueprint.
I found the Hesco guys had a lower BS factor than the Clifford guy I talked to.
Hesco understood my issue with smog testing and the Clifford guys kept
blowing it off as no big deal, trying to convince me I'd be better off with a 4 barrel...
Mine hits hard enough to piss off my wife if I shift too hard....
I also pretty much climb any freeway hill in 5th including over the Rockies...
I have 4.56 gears and 33" tires.
I can also easily get up to 95,,, I used to top out at 85.
Dave
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nice i wish my jeep i could doo that !!
and by balancing and blue printing... did you did someting to the head ??? beside machine work for stiffer spring
because i wondering whats gona happend if i shave deck to raise compression and install new cam whit stiffer spring are my lifter gona take it or i will have to replace for sorter push rod ?
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nice i wish my jeep i could doo that !!
and by balancing and blue printing... did you did someting to the head ??? beside machine work for stiffer spring
because i wondering whats gona happend if i shave deck to raise compression and install new cam whit stiffer spring are my lifter gona take it or i will have to replace for sorter push rod ?
if you raise compression you most likely will need to run a higher octane fuel
i think dwtaylor has roller rockers and probably are adjustable. depending on how much you take off the cyl head and block will result in that much more preload - you'll have to figure out if the pushrods need to be replaced.
for his engine if he was getting to 85mph with 120HP for 95mph he's making about 150HP (just rough math, nothing exact and it's all percentage based, the top speeds won't be at the same rpm so don't take this as being anything but approximation)
you'll also need a way to add more fuel somehow, just replacing the cam won't give you that much of an increase so plan for that as well (raising compression will improve engine efficiency but not by 25%, you will get more air into the cylinders with a more aggressive cam and to take advantage of that you need more fuel).
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i need to do reserch to find witch injector to put whit the cam i iam gona get i thik the best way is to fing some one whos engine is buit a certain way and do the same thing
i have found 26 lbs injector that fit so maybe they are gona go in after a cam swap
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i need to do reserch to find witch injector to put whit the cam i iam gona get i thik the best way is to fing some one whos engine is buit a certain way and do the same thing
i have found 26 lbs injector that fit so maybe they are gona go in after a cam swap
can't remember if you have a YJ or TJ, if it's a YJ 26 is too much, if it's TJ then you'll need to run some numbers, if it's 26lb/hr at 43.5psi injector your TJ runs at 49psi so the actual flow will be higher than that (and again could be too much)
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yes it is a tj
one other ting i need to check is my fuel pressure i iam in not sure it is getting 49 psi
but how you check your psi . idle or wot
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yes it is a tj
one other ting i need to check is my fuel pressure i iam in not sure it is getting 49 psi
but how you check your psi . idle or wot
for TJ should be 49psi accross the board (idle, wot or under load)
26lb/hr at 43.5psi = 27.6 lb/hr at 49 psi
vs 23.2 lb/hr stock is 19% more - i think it is a bit too much (my opinion) but you should measure the AFR at full load to know for sure
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how do you calculate the flow rating vs the pressure i dont get it ???
so how should i chose a injector thats gona be right for a new cam ?? is it gona be try see...
well i should probably start by getting a cam and istall it whit my friend and a couple of beer :beers:
then i check the colour of my plugs to get a nice reading of the mixture
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how do you calculate the flow rating vs the pressure i dont get it ???
so how should i chose a injector thats gona be right for a new cam ?? is it gona be try see...
well i should probably start by getting a cam and istall it whit my friend and a couple of beer :beers:
then i check the colour of my plugs to get a nice reading of the mixture
read this post in the FAQ http://4bangerjp.com/forums/index.php/topic,3479.msg52986.html#msg52986 - there's a formula in there and some other info about injectors.
you can also use an online calculator from here http://www.csgnetwork.com/fiflowcalc.html but keep in mind that you need to know what pressure the flow is rated at for the injectors you are looking at (most are commonly rated at 43.5psi or 3bar but some are rated at the operating pressure on the engine like for TJ at 49 psi or YJ at 39psi)
btw, thanks for the link on that $50 Mopar Cam from Mancini Racing, i placed an order for one - at $75 including shipping it's well worth it, now i need to find some suitable valve springs so if you come across anything decent let me know.
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so i presume it is a good cam the mopar one at 50 $
and beside valve spring are they other mecanical mod needed to keep up whit this one
because i will place and order too if its good
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now i need to find some suitable valve springs so if you come across anything decent let me know.
I used Mopar v8 springs when I installed my Mopar Perf. Cam, should still be readily available. Need the part number?
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I used Mopar v8 springs when I installed my Mopar Perf. Cam, should still be readily available. Need the part number?
that would be great if you have it handy. thanks Bounty :thumbsup:
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so i presume it is a good cam the mopar one at 50 $
and beside valve spring are they other mecanical mod needed to keep up whit this one
because i will place and order too if its good
it is more aggressive than the Hesco cam, I think (but not sure) Bounty Hunter and JFRabat are using the same cam but they can confirm
Duration: 268-268 @52 Degree
Lift: 480"
Centerline: 108
i read somewhere that some of the 4.0L jeeps had the cam retarded from factory to help with emissions, not sure if it's true or not but i also wonder if that is the case with the 2.5L and if it is would this cam be rather 0deg or not (i guess you would need to dial it to know for sure but again since they already installed it maybe they can provide some further information on this).
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If I was going to put this Mopar Performance Cam in my 95 YJ, I understand I would need new springs. If I did nothing else to the engine, would sharpxmen's adjustable FPR with 19lb injectors work? I do have a AFR gauge to dial it in. What other hardware is required? I'm not planning to shave the deck, I don't want to raise compression unless it is necessary. I am new to working inside the motor so any answers that can be dummied down would be appreciated.
Thanks
Bill
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If I was going to put this Mopar Performance Cam in my 95 YJ, I understand I would need new springs. If I did nothing else to the engine, would sharpxmen's adjustable FPR with 19lb injectors work? I do have a AFR gauge to dial it in. What other hardware is required? I'm not planning to shave the deck, I don't want to raise compression unless it is necessary. I am new to working inside the motor so any answers that can be dummied down would be appreciated.
Thanks
Bill
yes, on the YJ the adjustable FPR would work just fine for fuel adjustment - you will need to look for a better than stock air filter however.
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I wouldn't mind a nicer cam for my YJ don't really care about smog stuff don't have that here where I am.
how much were they?
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I wouldn't mind a nicer cam for my YJ don't really care about smog stuff don't have that here where I am.
how much were they?
$50 plus shipping
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:dance: just place my order to
cant wait to get it ... :clap:
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it is more aggressive than the Hesco cam, I think (but not sure) Bounty Hunter and JFRabat are using the same cam but they can confirm
Duration: 268-268 @52 Degree
Lift: 480"
Centerline: 108
i read somewhere that some of the 4.0L jeeps had the cam retarded from factory to help with emissions, not sure if it's true or not but i also wonder if that is the case with the 2.5L and if it is would this cam be rather 0deg or not (i guess you would need to dial it to know for sure but again since they already installed it maybe they can provide some further information on this).
Mine is a .450 lift 256 duration Mopar High Performance camshaft, but if I had to do it all over again, I would probably go with the 248 duration one, as I have read it has more low end toruqe. Still, I am happy with mine...
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so i now understant that this cam is big and agresif i hope it will gave me torque at the right place and not 3500 4500 rpm i iam now in serch of stiffer springs if somebody is running alredy this cam it will be nice to ave a litle review
if posible i think that whit ta kind of cam my jeep gona gona have choppy idle
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Mine is a .450 lift 256 duration Mopar High Performance camshaft, but if I had to do it all over again, I would probably go with the 248 duration one, as I have read it has more low end toruqe. Still, I am happy with mine...
here's the Hesco specs
Advertised duration: 264 214@ .050
Lobe centers: 110 degrees
Lift: 470
JF's
Duration 256
lift 450
the Mopar in question (i'm guessing this one needs a higher idle)
Duration: 268-268 @52 Degree
Lift: 480"
Centerline: 108
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maybe it is gona be to much of a cam ... doo you think :puzzled:
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on this site the cam jf got the basic rpm is 1300-5600 but i wonder if this is the plage the cam is working on or the minimum rpm to be ..
if its to big i will make it regrind to lower specs but for 50 $ it is wort trying it :thumb:
http://www.southeastrt.com/catalog/index.php?cat=9&item=602
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i found ross racing piston for 2.5 engine
http://www.shop.505performance.com/product.sc?productId=168&categoryId=28
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Mine is a .450 lift 256 duration Mopar High Performance camshaft.
Mine is the same, picked it up for a song years ago when a Chrysler dealership was clearing them out on Ebay.
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i found ross racing piston for 2.5 engine
http://www.shop.505performance.com/product.sc?productId=168&categoryId=28
that's too much $$$
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125 per piston, about the same as a good piston for a dirt bike...
On the other hand there are some really pretty good ones Like I used for about 250 for 4... Hyperutechtics...
Dave
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going back to that cam question
this is be the biggest cam available so i wonder what king of problem i am gona go accross installing that :eek:
and wat is going to be required to run this cam
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125 per piston, about the same as a good piston for a dirt bike...
On the other hand there are some really pretty good ones Like I used for about 250 for 4... Hyperutechtics...
Dave
looked to me that the price was per piston not the set of 4
EDIT: looked again and it is for the set, i hope they're forged for that price though
they have Keith Black forged pistons and are a tad cheaper for a set of 6 which would make the set of 4 about $400 but they don't have one :(
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found some more info on the Mopar cams
P4529656
Factory Engineered Hydraulic Cam and Tappet Package for Mild Competition Application 240-240-24* Duration, .430" Valve Lift, 108 Centerline
P4529657
Factory Engineered Hydraulic Cam and Tappet Package for Mild Competition Application 248-248-32* Duration, .440" Valve Lift, 108* Centerline
P4529658
Factory Engineered Hydraulic Cam and Tappet Package for Mild Competition Application 256-256-40* Duration, .450" Valve Lift, 108* Centerline
P4529659
Factory Engineered Hydraulic Cam and Tappet Package for Mild Competition Application 260-260-44* Duration, .460" Valve Lift, 108* Centerline
P4529660
Factory Engineered Hydraulic Cam and Tappet Package for Mild Competition Application 268-268-52* Duration, .480* Valve Lift, 108* Centerline
seems that all the Mopar cams were 108 centerline, so JF and Bounty's should be the same and it's a stage II. the 260 and 268 is stage III and seen it referred as xtreme comp somewhere, so i would think that there's no way you'd pass emissions with it but i'll give it a shot, if not i'll have to replace the cam every 2 years
Stage I Engine Package A
* Set timing for Maximum HP
* HP Hydraulic Cam 240" or 248" P4529656-657
* Valve Seal Package P4529661
* Valve Spring - Conical P4529217
* Conical Retainer- P4529217
* Low Restriction Enhaust
* Estimated 10 to 20 hp gain over stock
2.5L Jeep Inline 4 Engine
Stage II Engine Package B
Same as Engine Package A except for the following items:
* HP Hydraulic Cam 256" or 260" P4529658-659
* Centerline Cam with Bushing Kit P3690936
* Backcut Valves P4529212-213
* Richen Carb
* Engine oil Cooler P45292690
* Headers
* Estimate 20 to 30 hp gain over Stage I
2.5L Jeep Inline 4 Engine
Stage III Engine Package C
Same as Engine Package A and B except for the following items:
* Increase C.R.
* HP Hydraulic Cam 268" P4529660
* Ported Head P4529644
* Intake Manifold Attaching Package P4529679
* Good Gas
* HD Rod Bolt and Nut Package P4529817
* Estimated 20 to 30 hp gain over Stage II
so if you do all that could potentially be at about 180HP on a 4 banger :yikes: (cost prohibitive but according to this is possible)
I have also seen that is possible to increase the Intake size from 1.9'' to 2'' and have the intake/exhaust ported and polished
larger t/b and CAI is a given
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found some more info on the Mopar cams
P4529656
Factory Engineered Hydraulic Cam and Tappet Package for Mild Competition Application 240-240-24* Duration, .430" Valve Lift, 108 Centerline
P4529657
Factory Engineered Hydraulic Cam and Tappet Package for Mild Competition Application 248-248-32* Duration, .440" Valve Lift, 108* Centerline
P4529658
Factory Engineered Hydraulic Cam and Tappet Package for Mild Competition Application 256-256-40* Duration, .450" Valve Lift, 108* Centerline
P4529659
Factory Engineered Hydraulic Cam and Tappet Package for Mild Competition Application 260-260-44* Duration, .460" Valve Lift, 108* Centerline
P4529660
Factory Engineered Hydraulic Cam and Tappet Package for Mild Competition Application 268-268-52* Duration, .480* Valve Lift, 108* Centerline
seems that all the Mopar cams were 108 centerline, so JF and Bounty's should be the same and it's a stage II. the 260 and 268 is stage III and seen it referred as xtreme comp somewhere, so i would think that there's no way you'd pass emissions with it but i'll give it a shot, if not i'll have to replace the cam every 2 years
Stage I Engine Package A
* Set timing for Maximum HP
* HP Hydraulic Cam 240" or 248" P4529656-657
* Valve Seal Package P4529661
* Valve Spring - Conical P4529217
* Conical Retainer- P4529217
* Low Restriction Enhaust
* Estimated 10 to 20 hp gain over stock
2.5L Jeep Inline 4 Engine
Stage II Engine Package B
Same as Engine Package A except for the following items:
* HP Hydraulic Cam 256" or 260" P4529658-659
* Centerline Cam with Bushing Kit P3690936
* Backcut Valves P4529212-213
* Richen Carb
* Engine oil Cooler P45292690
* Headers
* Estimate 20 to 30 hp gain over Stage I
2.5L Jeep Inline 4 Engine
Stage III Engine Package C
Same as Engine Package A and B except for the following items:
* Increase C.R.
* HP Hydraulic Cam 268" P4529660
* Ported Head P4529644
* Intake Manifold Attaching Package P4529679
* Good Gas
* HD Rod Bolt and Nut Package P4529817
* Estimated 20 to 30 hp gain over Stage II
so if you do all that could potentially be at about 180HP on a 4 banger :yikes: (cost prohibitive but according to this is possible)
I have also seen that is possible to increase the Intake size from 1.9'' to 2'' and have the intake/exhaust ported and polished
larger t/b and CAI is a given
his is a different cam; he has 268 duration and .480 lift and I have 256 duration and .450 lift, so his cam seems to be even more aggressive than mine, and mine was suppossed to be most aggressive street version (read: emmission passing version) of the Mopar Performance Cams... At least that is what they guy I bought it from said (but it seems right).
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there is no emision test here in canada so no problem for that
i just wonder de drivability of this cam :puzzled:
and like i said if it is too mutch i iam gona find a other one and put this one 4 sale
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there is no emision test here in canada so no problem for that
i just wonder de drivability of this cam :puzzled:
and like i said if it is too mutch i iam gona find a other one and put this one 4 sale
Best way is to try it and see...
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his is a different cam; he has 268 duration and .480 lift and I have 256 duration and .450 lift, so his cam seems to be even more aggressive than mine, and mine was suppossed to be most aggressive street version (read: emmission passing version) of the Mopar Performance Cams... At least that is what they guy I bought it from said (but it seems right).
yep, it's a stage III cam, i ordered one too :naughty:
there is no emision test here in canada so no problem for that
i just wonder de drivability of this cam :puzzled:
and like i said if it is too mutch i iam gona find a other one and put this one 4 sale
well, here in Canada there's air-care (BC) - i doubt it will pass with that cam but at least i only have to do it every 2 years so if it fails i'll have to throw the stock one in
for $50 i can play with it, i don't mind, it's really something that you will not find in the future since they're all discontinued
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:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:
this cam is gona meet whit a 0.060 bore block and a rebuit head whit a pace setter headers and a 4.0 tb i thik its a good setup ... will see
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The factory valve guides are too tall to handle the talles cams, so its
in cards to have the head done when you do the cam so the head can
be machined for the better springs... and to avoid the valves bottoming out...
My Head had to be relieved and the guides shortened by .090 as I recall....
Dave
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I was looking at the Mancini Racing page that came up from the original link. I can't find the cam there. Am I at the wrong site or just blind. Any help would be appreciated.
Thanks
Bill
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I was looking at the Mancini Racing page that came up from the original link. I can't find the cam there. Am I at the wrong site or just blind. Any help would be appreciated.
Thanks
Bill
nope, it's gone - just looked
EDIT: sold out, i hope i will still get the one i ordered :confused:
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yha looks like there is no more but i also hope a get the one i ordered... or helse ... :guns: :guns:
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I should have jumped on the 'cheap' wagon, never know for future builds.
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i call them they gono ship monday morning
because it looks like they have a big event there and 90 % of the people working there are gone to the race
so nobody to ship our camshaft
the girl told me that if you get a confirmation email whit a order number it is sure you have it
and it is genuin mopar part not replica she thold me so i iam wating for a dusty pacage :naughty:
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Makes you wonder where others are hiding, collecting dust...
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Makes you wonder where others are hiding, collecting dust...
i'm sure there's more out there, not sure if for $50...
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:flush: I was going to call today,thought about it all day long,but was busy "Building America"
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well, bad news - i got a call today to be told they don't have it so i won't be getting one :rant:
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??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? :finger: :finger: :finger: :finger: :finger: :guns: :guns: :guns: :guns: :guns:
gang de tabarnak d ostie .... ( sorry for the french swairs ... its my every day language comming out )
i will call them asap tomorow and check
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too bad so sad
no cam .... :finger:
i gess cliford gona have my money
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too bad so sad
no cam .... :finger:
i gess cliford gona have my money
do you have a link for the clifford cam?
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i call them
and talk whit lary .. nice guy he thold me they dyno test a stock 1997 tj 2.5l at 85 whp :'(
after he put is cam kit ( cam lifter spring retainer ) and 0.60 head mill and port and polish also bigger valve
he got 185 whp :eek: :eek: :dance: :dance: :dance: :eek: :eek:
so i iam gona doo the same
they put a cam kit aside for me
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What's the damage for the cam kit? It seems to give amazing results.
Thanks
Bill
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A 120% increase in HP is a bit hard to believe.
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A 120% increase in HP is a bit hard to believe.
yeah, and that means about 220HP (if not more) at the flywheel which is also hard to believe on this engine even with the right parts in it.
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A 120% increase in HP is a bit hard to believe.
witch cam is this? and is that all you need or would you have to do valve springs and the hole 9 yards? and price?
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witch cam is this? and is that all you need or would you have to do valve springs and the hole 9 yards? and price?
i call them
and talk whit lary .. nice guy he thold me they dyno test a stock 1997 tj 2.5l at 85 whp :'(
after he put is cam kit ( cam lifter spring retainer ) and 0.60 head mill and port and polish also bigger valve
he got 185 whp :eek: :eek: :dance: :dance: :dance: :eek: :eek:
so i iam gona doo the same
they put a cam kit aside for me
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This is why Hesco got my money instead of Clifford.
The guys at clifford just made too many big claims....
Hesco does Jeep. Clifford does straight 6 engines with 4 bangers as a side...
Just a opinion....
Dave
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A 120% increase in HP is a bit hard to believe.
X2... I would be one happy camper with 20%, but even that is a high for just a cam.
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How much dose it run for all that engine work? Also will make that power at the lower RPM's for crawling rock?
I would like to get more out of my 4cy YJ but I use it's used for crawling too. Turing my TSL 36's can be a bear, I can sometimes hold 65 on the freeway.
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Ok so a good friend who is a engine builder id mine. So my price aint gonna be anybody elses... :biggrin:
I'd expect to pay at least 2800 for Parts, and machine work for a street high performance
rebuild if it included balancing the rotating assembly and some mild head work with the valve job.
I am in Portland Or where we have several top notch builders (IE their engines run at places like Monaco and Indy...)
You can pay a LOT more,,, but on a street drivable rig its kind of a waste...
Remember that racers have to build engines within rules, thats why certain engines get really worked out and some dont.
Dont waste a lot of money on porting a Jeep 2.5, it already has bigger ports than most V8 Engines and has fairly large valves as well.
The return on investment drops quickly...
Hmmm do we have a sticky thread about what questions to ask an engine builder and how to spec what you want??
Dave
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so,
I bought a second hand cyl head at the "you pull it"
this is what i'm planning:
1 - roller rockers (bought a set off ebay 1.7 ratio, we'll see if it fits when it gets delivered - i compared the stock stamped ones with a set at a perf store here and they're very close for the distance between the stud and the tip but the price on them was not attractive at all so went ebay's way)
2 - stainless steel intake/exhaust valves - still debating if i want 2.02/1.6 or 2.02/1.5 (exhaust is 1.5 stock) or just go with stock diam valves but since i'm at it i would probably go with 2.02/1.6
3 - ream out the valve guides to 11/32
4 - 110# valve springs (need to figure out what's what - this head has conical springs on, 1.220 od at the top and 1.440 at the bottom - i have no idea if these are stock or not) in case i need to buy springs i will have to machine the valve spring seat in the head to accept .880 i.d. valve springs
5 - smooth out and polish the intake and exhaust runs
i'll post updates if i make any progress.
we'll see how it goes
EDIT:
6 - 7/16 roller rocker studs (not sure if i will drill and tap to 3/8 or go 7/16 coarse at the bottom, i am a bit concerned that the pedestals where the studs go in would get too weak if i go 7/16 so that's another thing i need to figure out
I have to also get the install heights sorted out for both the valves (so i might go with +.100 ones to get the 1.7 spring height) as well as the rockers/studs install height (to get the proper angle on the rocker)