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General Forums => The Mess Hall => Topic started by: callenst on February 01, 2006, 06:11:08 PM
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What lockers do you guys all run??? Pro/Con.... of each. I am currently in the market for a locker and want to make the best investment.
TC
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Go with a manual locker. You'll be happy and won't have to deal with any quirks. Although, you might not want to invest anything in the Dana 35C.
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Ya... D35 is not really worth investing any money into it. So often people do very minor 4 wheeling, and aren't looking at major suspension/tire upgrades. In that case, maybe a 'Super35' kit isn't that bad of an idea. (Manual, just like Jeffy said!)
Another axle exchange has to do with the labor involved if it's coils. With leaves, you weld on spring perch’s and your done. With a coil sprung vehicle, you have to weld on coil spring plates (to exact tolerances), trac-bar brackets, upper & lower control arm brackets and maybe shock mounts and rear sway bar mounts.
The question was about lockers, but axles match lockers. Upgrade the inners, or the whole housing…
I’m running ARB’s Front and Rear. Ford 9” with nothing more that spring perch’s welded on. Shock mounts are on the U-bolt skid plates. Front is a D30 with the 30 spline inners and Ox U-joints. Warn’s hub conversion kit finishes the ends.
ARB is Swwweeeetttt!!!
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ARB is Swwweeeetttt!!!
That's also the sound of the air leaking out... :wink:
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I'm running Easy up front and LockRight in the rear. I've changed my gearing to 4.88's. Since I have an auto with the 2.5l, I really don't feel any locker presence on the street. I really don't have all that power going to the rear axle. However, in slow going offroad conditions, and in low 4w, I definately do feel the lockers. I've had to relearn how to drive with a front locker. I guess me having a front ARB in a 92 Bronco got me spoiled. However, in comparison, I love the light weight and wheelbase of the TJ. LOL.
On the street, no input to the front from the front locker.
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I am running ARBs front and rear and love them. I have never had a problem with air leaks. The front is 1 year old and the rear is 2 years old. I really like the selectable because my Jeep is a daily driver and with Alberta winters it is really nice
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ARB is Swwweeeetttt!!!
That's also the sound of the air leaking out... :wink:
Jeffy... Everyone loves that Pssst sound the ARB makes when the air is being released from the locker :lol:
But as far as leaks are concerned... I won't disagee with you that some of them leak. But most of the time, it's installation error. OK, not all the time but most.
Finding the leak is easy when they run on 100psi. The connections at the compressor, the connections at the axle, or inside. If it's inside, it's usually the o-rings. Seal housing's spin (if installed wrong) and o-rings get kinked (if installed wrong).
Spend some time on the install and and avoid any future problems...
As far as selectable lockers... there really isn't too many to choose from. Certainly not many that are tried and true.
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Ya... D35 is not really worth investing any money into it. So often people do very minor 4 wheeling, and aren't looking at major suspension/tire upgrades. In that case, maybe a 'Super35' kit isn't that bad of an idea. (Manual, just like Jeffy said!)
Another axle exchange has to do with the labor involved if it's coils. With leaves, you weld on spring perch’s and your done. With a coil sprung vehicle, you have to weld on coil spring plates (to exact tolerances), trac-bar brackets, upper & lower control arm brackets and maybe shock mounts and rear sway bar mounts.
yup the Yukon 35 (same as Super 35) is what I'm running with a Detroit. simple and no compressor, switches or airlines to worry about. at the time I did mine there weren't near as many people offering axle assemblies ready to bolt in and the mounting brackets were harder to find. I guess thats the downside of having a TJ. now that theres more factory D44s to find in junkyards and more aftermarket support I probably would have went with a 44.
on to the lockers. selectable will be just like stock for driveability. my Detroit is only a problem when trying to make u turns or turning sharply in parking lots (makes the jeep want to buck and makes loud popping noise sometimes). once you get used to it you can drive it where its not noticeable or you can make it pop and buck on demand.
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Before I put the 9" in the back of the Jeep, I had a 'Super 35' kit and 33's... The detroit broke once, but that was in a parking lot and was blamed on a bad cast from Detroit. I had another one read labelled to me and it was replaced within a few days. Labor wasn't an issue, since it was all done in house.
But my overall impression of the kit sucked. All right, not that bad... City driving was ok, the cheirping and banging did take some getting used to, but it was drivable. I had to pull a small utility trailer with it... The bang coming out of the rear scared me to death. I thought I broke it again.
My worst scenario was on an early morning outting, where it snowed here in Western Washington. I thought I had this bad a$$ Jeep with 33's and all these add-on's... Well the moment I got on the freeway I was freaking out. My rear-end was all over the place. I was scared to go over 30 mph. I was holding on to the steering wheel firmly with two hands, and praying that no-one was in the lanes on either side of me. What really got me was when this Ford Taurus zoomed by me at normal highway speeds. Back to this thought in my head that I had a awesome Jeep, but this Taurus certainly performed better.
Since then, the 9" upgrade, and the ARB air locker were the greatest (well another one of the greatest) upgrades I did to the Jeep.
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Hmm, you're Detroit is a lot different them mine. I rarely hear mine. I don't hear it through U-Turns and the only time I do is if I turn a biit right before I stop and unlock it. Then I try to accelerate forward in 1wd and hear the one bang then I'm off. If I shift on a turn the rear will figgle but not make any noise. The only time I really feel newvious is when coasting down a hill where I need to be on the gas but only lightly and there is a long arc/turn in the road. This causes the rear to lock and unlock. You can't hear it but I can feel it. It's a buy unerving to feel the rear end want to oversteer then stop then oversteer again and again.
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my locker doesn't much noise either. could be the 85/140 Lucas gear oil I'm using. that stuff is thick and sticks to everything. very hard to wash off if ya get it on yourself
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My Lincoln Lockers front and rear don't make any noise either. Had them in the stock axles for a few years now and it's a daily driver and wheeled pretty hard on 33" TSL's. Weld 'em up, you'd be surprised how reliably and driveable it is :twisted:
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My Lincoln Lockers front and rear don't make any noise either. Had them in the stock axles for a few years now and it's a daily driver and wheeled pretty hard on 33" TSL's. Weld 'em up, you'd be surprised how reliably and driveable it is :twisted:
Lincoln lockers are only are strong as your welding, that is the major downfall.
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I`m running K&S Vacuum-Locker front and rear.
Front axleshaft outer and inner 29Spline,rear K&S Fullfloaterkit 27Spline.
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Lincoln lockers are only are strong as your welding, that is the major downfall.
No downfall if the welding is up to par :shock:
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The only downfall of a lincolin locker is that it's always locked.
You'll see faster tire wear because the tires will scrub more as they they get dragged through corners. Because of this, it's harder on your driveline. But unlike older detroits and lunchbox lockers, there won't be the shock from having it enguage all of a sudden.
For a daily driver, I wouldn't recommend it. Especially if you have a long commute.
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I haven't noticed much increase in tire wear, sure they scrub in the tightest of corners but it's invisibly in anything more. Frequent rotating is the key. They're ultimately predictable onroad and off so it gets my highest recommendation. My 44's will have spools front and rear for this reason.
Has anybody else here ran a spool or Lincoln Locker on the street much? Most I know who have are pleasantly surprised with how well they do.
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Welding it is just plain scary.
Sure it's cheap, and it could last a lifetime, but no way is it for everyone. Plus, welding the front (without hubs) is worst. Driveability in 4WD must be a bear.
Now if you throw so much weld in there, what if you do bust an axle? How do you get that thing out of there? I've seen people throw as much weld as they possible can. And can you really weld a C-clipped axle?
1. Weld it for next to nothing
2. Lock-right, Aussie locker, or Quick-lock for really cheap
3. limited slip (Auburn, Gleason, Trac-lok) for a bit more
4. Locker for even more money
5. Selectable for the most money.
I'll personally label them
1. cheap
2. decent
3. sometimes works (rebuildable)
4. dependable
5. most expensive, but worth it
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Ya, I'm cheap, but I also believe in using what works. No, it isn't a bear to drive in 4wd. It takes a few extra point-turns in the tightest of trail turns but the tradeoff in traction is worth it. My D44 front is a vacuum disconnect type (in the diff cover) and it will have an aircraft cable to control it. I'll then be able to disconnect the driver's side axleshaft from the spool which will make tight turns a breeze. Poor man's selectable locker if you will (read "CHEAP") :lol:
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Wow, you must be cheap is you swapped one of those crappy D44's. :wink:
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I read something about this guy who does lincolns front and rear on his CJ. Said he has manual front hubs, so both front wheels are spinning freely in 2wd (despite having a front axle that's been fused together ). Then, in 4WD he locks the front hubs and is fully locked up to the welded front axle (of course it's an undifferentiated "4WD," likely suited only when you expect to have a wheel or two off the ground). And, of course there is likely some heavy wear on the rear tires.
But, Interesting solution if you have a old 4x4 CJ or maybe Chevy rig with manual hubs.
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My Waggy D44 will have lockouts for total freewheelin onroad. It will have a spool instead of Lincoln Lockers because I need a new carrier anyway, then the cable disconnect will allow 3wd for easier turning offroad.
There is no noticable increase in tire wear from having the front spooled or welded.
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Detroit Locker for the Dana 35 D35 fits low gearsets 3.55, 3.73, 4.11, 4.56, 4.88. http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1,1&item=8035236604&sspagename=STRK%3AMESE%3AIT
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I welded the rear in my old truck with a 12bolt. of course i didnt really know how to weld all that well and i used a 115 volt wire feed welder. still i wheeled the whee out of it and drove it on the street to work everyday. the front dana 44 with no locker broke more than the rear did. After a while some pieces poked through the cover and it leaked, but still worked till i swapped in a 14 bolt. of course nowadays i would only weld an offroad-only rig, and i upgraded to a stick welder.
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Ok, can someone tell me what a "super35" is? Thanks, Troy. :?
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A "Super35" is a kit a few different companies distribute to 'beef up' the rear axle of a Jeep (Dana 35).
It is a kit that includes a locker (Either a Detroit or an ARB), and it includes axles which are 30 spline. Stock D35 axles are 27 spline, so these aftermaket axles are thicker and made of stronger materials.
The overall internal strength of the D35 is upgraded. Although the outer axle tubes are still weak, and it's still a c-clip.
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A "Super35" is a kit a few different companies distribute to 'beef up' the rear axle of a Jeep (Dana 35).
It is a kit that includes a locker (Either a Detroit or an ARB), and it includes axles which are 30 spline. Stock D35 axles are 27 spline, so these aftermaket axles are thicker and made of stronger materials.
The overall internal strength of the D35 is upgraded. Although the outer axle tubes are still weak, and it's still a c-clip.
Thanks, are all D35's c-clip and what are the pros and cons?, Troy.
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the con's of a c-clip are:
If the axle breaks, nothing holds it into place... the axle slides right out of the housing. (Now rumor has it, c-clips don't break, axles break. If you can get an axle that'll never break, then c-clips aren't an issue)
C-clip carriers are minimally weaker. Very minimal, but because they have to cut a window in the carrier, it weakens the carrier.
Plus... Most everyone just hates the D35...
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Thanks, are all D35's c-clip and what are the pros and cons?, Troy.
Read this thread,
http://www.4bangerjp.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=467