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General Forums => The Mess Hall => Topic started by: tjsean0308 on October 15, 2010, 12:53:57 PM
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Newbie here, so bear with me, and flame on if this has been addressed elsewhere. I drive a 99 TJ 2.5l 5 Spd, :wall: just ordered the 62 mm TB and spacer from Bounty. :biggrin: Been looking at a cowling intake to go with to ditch the stock air box with k&n drop in (lots of dust, need to increase filtration without compromising CFM) while gaining a bit of fording height. I had been researching a salvage yard solution and have seen many builds on that. Until I found this. http://www.quadratec.com/products/17006_7000_07.htm (http://www.quadratec.com/products/17006_7000_07.htm) My specific question is has anyone tried to modify this already for the Minute Mammalian Motor? I really like the clean appearance of this kit but I don't associate with the 4.0 crowd to often (don't want to catch the cooties ;) ) so I figured I would try here before lining up a side by side tape measure opportunity. I think the biggest difference will be the distance from the firewall to the TB. What are your opinions is this a possibility or should I just go for a windstar air box and some creativity? I really do like the clean finish of this kit, and the basic plastic inlet under the cowling that I might be able to add a centrifugal pre cleaner to.
I was thinking about buying it and just keeping the packaging nice and tidy so I can send it back if its going to be impossible. Thanks in advance for the comments and ideas.
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not sure why the cone is backwards from what you usually see on the high flow filters. I went with an Apollo KnN and some mandrel bent piping - the one you posted looks ok but i wonder what's with all the welds on the piping, you'd think they could've gotten something pre-bent. the cone also seems rather tiny to fit in a 3'' pipe. I'd suggest looking into the Apollo or something similar, the cone is about 8'' on the base (can't remember on top of my head, might be even more) and buy some 2.5'' mandrel bent tubing. You can also go with a CAI filter for a budget solution and enclose that yourself although would require some welding or finding a housing that would fit the filter.
EDIT: I would also think about a different solution than the cowl intake, maybe the Hummer type snorkel that goes thru the cowl, the cowl vent seems fairly restrictive to me.
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I think the biggest issue is the filter is tiny. Typically when you run a filter inline like that you do have it it so the cone faces forward. This is so it drives the air to the center instead of into the walls.
You may get cleaner air but I think you're really choking yourself off with that filter. Also one good dip and you'll be pulling plugs, trying to clear the water out of the cylinders. Oh and if the cowl drain clogs up, you'll have the same issue. At least it won't leak inside as the intake will act as a prefect drain.
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to give you an idea this is what I did using the Apollo http://4bangerjp.com/forums/index.php/topic,7222.0.html
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they make the cowl intake as a kit now :puzzled:.. didn't think id ever see that come as a kit.
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Thanks for the replies,
Jeffy, my cowling drain plugged up a long time ago and has already had the problematic rubber boot removed. Seems to me the cowling is a higher point than the stock location and less prone to the fan splashing water into the air box. Also I didn't have any intentions to just leave the raw open tube inside the cowling. I was thinking an up turn with a centri filter or at least a rodent screen with an up turn. Way to be super critical :finger: Good call on the filter orientation hadn't really thought of that but it is 4" at the base and 5.5" tall. It is probably not the least restrictive design out there I agree. I can't find a CFM rating on the Spectre or the K&N Apollo.
Sharpxmen: Do you have the actual dimensions of that filter? I couldn't find in on the K&N page. Nice work on your snorkel. I don't have a Tig or a mandrel bender or even a shop anymore, so that level of custom work is out my means at this point in my life. And I like the clean look of an internal filtration system, I don't do a lot of water stuff right now and was never a fan of the snorkels but on your rig it fits and that is a very clean install, my two favorite colors black and chrome. I had thought of the cowl vent, I can see straight through it on my TJ. Looks like that plastic gutter guard stuff is yours different? Also how is that apollo filter to service. Do you find those little nuts and bolts annoying? How is the access to it with the battery box installed, or have you moved it for the supercharger allready?
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Thanks for the replies,
Jeffy, my cowling drain plugged up a long time ago and has already had the problematic rubber boot removed. Seems to me the cowling is a higher point than the stock location and less prone to the fan splashing water into the air box. Also I didn't have any intentions to just leave the raw open tube inside the cowling. I was thinking an up turn with a centri filter or at least a rodent screen with an up turn. Way to be super critical :finger: Good call on the filter orientation hadn't really thought of that but it is 4" at the base and 5.5" tall. It is probably not the least restrictive design out there I agree. I can't find a CFM rating on the Spectre or the K&N Apollo.
The seal only keeps water from leaking into the cabin. If anything fell into the box, it could clog the filter and really reduce performance seeing as the filter is so small.
I would definitely go with a HMMWV setup which would allow you to put an extension stack on for deep stuff. Water doesn't have to be very deep to cause a wave to crest over the hood and into the cowl vent. In those cases, the engine is usually fine under the hood.
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What seal are you talking about? :puzzled: The cowling has a drain for any water that gets in from the top, its a big plastic funnel behind the block, which used to have a rubber flapper on it that I removed the first time it plugged about 6 years ago. And with an added up turn and cap, or centri filter ideally, something like the donaldson that sharpxmen used but under the cowling. That coupled with the fact that it wouldn't be directly beneath the cowling screen I think thats better than stock by far. And I could always add an extension pipe if I start doing lots of water crossings in the future I like that idea. But for now I can keep the stock appearance. So basically no one has seen this kit before nor tried to fit it to the MMM?
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What seal are you talking about? :puzzled: The cowling has a drain for any water that gets in from the top, its a big plastic funnel behind the block, which used to have a rubber flapper on it that I removed the first time it plugged about 6 years ago. And with an added up turn and cap, or centri filter ideally, something like the donaldson that sharpxmen used but under the cowling. That coupled with the fact that it wouldn't be directly beneath the cowling screen I think thats better than stock by far. And I could always add an extension pipe if I start doing lots of water crossings in the future I like that idea. But for now I can keep the stock appearance. So basically no one has seen this kit before nor tried to fit it to the MMM?
Years ago there was a TBS on TJ cowl seals...
The kit in Qtech is brand new. As in it just came out. I doubt you'll find anyone with one unless they jsut bought it.
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I missed that one do you have a copy of it?
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I missed that one do you have a copy of it?
check Alldata or do a search. It's a TSB so it's not required and if you're out of warranty they probably won't do it.
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Don't have an alldata account and google yields nothing. I remember the 97 guys talking about getting the newer style HVAC intake which is a cover over the pictured hole. Which mine has and is silicone sealed. The wet spot at the top of the picture is the drain and this one looks like it has mud in the rubber boot. And I know what a TBS is, but thank you. :thumb:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v301/skimblz/Jeep/DSCN0890.jpg
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Sharpxmen: Do you have the actual dimensions of that filter? I couldn't find in on the K&N page. Nice work on your snorkel. I don't have a Tig or a mandrel bender or even a shop anymore, so that level of custom work is out my means at this point in my life. And I like the clean look of an internal filtration system, I don't do a lot of water stuff right now and was never a fan of the snorkels but on your rig it fits and that is a very clean install, my two favorite colors black and chrome. I had thought of the cowl vent, I can see straight through it on my TJ. Looks like that plastic gutter guard stuff is yours different? Also how is that apollo filter to service. Do you find those little nuts and bolts annoying? How is the access to it with the battery box installed, or have you moved it for the supercharger allready?
you can access the filter from under the Jeep, no chance with the battery box installed. Don't have the dimensions
here's the kit on summitracing http://www.summitracing.com/parts/KNN-RC-5052AB/ for about $140 shipped
or you can get one from this guy for $80 buy it now shipped but i don't know if it's used or not (he's got other colors too so i assume it is new) http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/K-N-APOLLO-Universal-Closed-Air-INTAKE-SYSTEM-_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQhashZitem415394bbebQQitemZ280575130603QQptZMotorsQ5fCarQ5fTruckQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories
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Thanks for the links. How is the performance on it? seems to flow plenty?
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is speced out for up to 350HP so i would thing would be enough for the 4 banger
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i don't know i an expecting big things from that new TB :thumbsup:
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I think the biggest issue is the filter is tiny. Typically when you run a filter inline like that you do have it it so the cone faces forward. This is so it drives the air to the center instead of into the walls.
You may get cleaner air but I think you're really choking yourself off with that filter. Also one good dip and you'll be pulling plugs, trying to clear the water out of the cylinders. Oh and if the cowl drain clogs up, you'll have the same issue. At least it won't leak inside as the intake will act as a prefect drain.
Hmm Interesting side note, all the formula cars I work on do it wide end first, like this intake,
most of them have a small tube that extends out of the tail of the cone through the filter
container to the outside so bigger bits can flow through the system and out of the car...
The size does look suspect but till I saw one in real life,,, hmm.
I have thought a lot about teh same concept, using the
cowl instead of the snorkel, kind of a in-between solution...
better than stock without the outside stuff to worry about.
Something to look at anyway....
Dave
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Hmm Interesting side note, all the formula cars I work on do it wide end first, like this intake,
most of them have a small tube that extends out of the tail of the cone through the filter
container to the outside so bigger bits can flow through the system and out of the car...
The size does look suspect but till I saw one in real life,,, hmm.
I have thought a lot about teh same concept, using the
cowl instead of the snorkel, kind of a in-between solution...
better than stock without the outside stuff to worry about.
Something to look at anyway....
Dave
Most applications have the cone forward like that. It's so the filter catches whatever is in the stream instead of driving it to the outside where it's jsut trapped between the filters gasket and the walls of the tube.
I'd still worry about water cresting the hood in a dunk where the bow wave would normally prevent water from getting into the stock air box. I still like the other setup with the hole in the cowl itself with a cap on top. The opening is pretty huge since it's HMMWV stock. Run the prefilter down low when you don't really need it then add a 3ft section when you do. The only downside to running it through the cowl like that is you can't lower the windshield anymore.
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Found someone talking about these on JF...
(http://imagehost.vendio.com/a/11118218/aview/1-AFB-TG03-CF__10_.jpg)
(http://imagehost.vendio.com/a/11118218/aview/1-AFB-TG03-CF.JPG)
in this thread...
http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f27/write-up-hummer-cold-air-intake-326040/index7.html
I'm thinking about doing this due to the fact that I don't have room for a stock air box anymore!
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first off that filter is a knock-off and is glued to one of the ends - so you're going to save some money now but you won't find anything to replace it with and you'll have to buy another one. It is also less flowing since it's barely a cone and the shape is more of a cylinder. since there's no gasket or o-ring it won't be water tight either with only those 3 screws - this one is $54 shipped for $26 more you can have a hi-perf K&N that is reusable. Sometimes you save more by spending a bit more the first time. That hose you'll have to ditch, is more restrictive than the stock one, use some nice mandrel bent pipes and stay at least 2.5'' diameter
but all that is just my opinion
it looks nice on the outside though.
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Thanks for thinking for me...
Probably going to keep looking!!!